Ayodam
Ayodam
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@ays12151 said:
All Killers (except Nurse & Blight) need a huge buff. They will add base kit unbreakable, for Killer, they should add base kit Corrupt Intervention.
A lot of Killers are unplayable against a SWF teams, not matter what. Sometimes your chases end very fast, but still is not enough.
In future Patch Killer will not Slug (it was the best way to make pressure on the map, just 1 slugged person). Camping is nerfed, Tunneling is nerfed.
In future Killer won't be able to do anything... And the worst part of it - strong & confident (sometimes very toxic) SWF will abuse it.
The only reason they’re adding basekit UB is because with the new killer mori system, without basekit UB a killer can slug three survivors, mori the 4th, and then the other three are auto sacrificed. Devs don’t give a hoot about slugging but they’re not nimrods. They know there’s no way that basekit mori can go live without some sort of check/balance.
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@MeanieDeeny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217713#Comment_3217713
The fact none of you even know what gen rushing is, is sad. You’re either low level killers or survivor mains with no regard for how anything else in dbd works. Or faking ignorant.
It’s exactly what I said it is, hon. Anything else?
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@BrightWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217664#Comment_3217664
It would certainly help with killers who have low gen pressure and would stop three gens popping in less than ninety seconds. :-/
Blight and Nurse would dominate even more than they already do as they’re cruel and unrestrained on small maps. And the survival rate would continue to drop, driving more survivors from the game. It’s hard to remember but the kill rate for every single killer is above 50%. Additionally, survivors actually need a decent shot at escape, and for them that is considerably map-dependent.
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@Marigoria said:
Just now I got camped at 5 gens. Must have been that crazy genrushing am I right?
Well you wouldn’t be the one genrushing; your team letting you die & finishing all five gens while you were hooked (instead of trading or whatever) would be genrushing. Did the others get out? And were they using perks designed to counter gen regression perks (hyperfocus vs. thanatophobia, Repressed Alliance vs. Jolt/Call of Brine, etc). Certain perks are genrushy too even though they exist to counteract killer slowdown perks.
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@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3217710#Comment_3217710
Are they talking about survivors sitting on gens and saving at last second? Cause honestly thats pretty scary to go against. Still not genrushing though, just being smart.
It seems it’s just survivors who refuse to do anything but work on gens. Not sure how that is possible since killers can chase survivors off gens, trap gens, and manipulate them otherwise, but the specific example commonly used to illustrate genrushing is survivors letting a teammate die on hook in priority of finishing gens. The tactic is said to be most common amongst SWF, although I personally have never seen this.
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@Dead_Harder said:
There is no such thing as gen rushing.
Killers here say it’s basically when survivors don’t save teammates & instead just focus gens.
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Why’d you specify against ‘good’ survivors? Are the rankings somehow different against average survivors, who make up the great majority of survivor players..?
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My hope for the new year is that the moderators of this forum are more vigilant in shutting down flame war bait threads. No excuse why they allow these to proliferate—and I know they hawk this forum.
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@Veinslay said:
I wish they just changed this perk to do something else completely instead of keeping in this completely unfun, bogus gameplay loop of breathe down the survivor's neck and wait for him to Dead Hard before you can swing. It's obnoxious. No killer player enjoys this at all. It's amazing how they spend patch after patch to fix "unfun" things in the game that Survivors hate, with slugging being next on the board, while old Dead Hard stayed in the game for 5+ years, maps are still broken as hell, and 4-man SWF stomps every killer that's not a good Nurse or Blight. Literally nothing to fix any of those things that killers find unfun
The only reason BHVR is doing basekit UB is because if they released the new mori system without it, killers would slug three survivors, mori the fourth, and the three slugs would instantly sacrifice. Devs aren’t releasing it because they think slugging robs survivors, they’re releasing it because the uproar of the tactic I just described would be tremendous. The game would hemorrhage survivor players.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211859#Comment_3211859
Voice chat only works for US players. In EU people speak different languages.
It’s 2022, why aren’t you all speaking Americ—I mean English? /s
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I like Dredge. It’s fun to verse and play as. Rare for killers these days.
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213564#Comment_3213564
Pig received a significant buff through addons and changes to her box logic, and the Nurse we have today is not even close to the one we had before 2019.
None of that subverts what I wrote. Pig has historically and up until the recent change made to box RNG, received nerfs. And Nurse has received recent add-on buffs. Your point is moot.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212792#Comment_3212792
Still proving my point. Watcha gonna do? Not kill someone because they could potentially create a hook dead zone? This is without sabotage squads. Maybe 1 body block and you don't get the hook. The killer should never be punished for killing a survivor.
If you’re that concerned about hook deadzones bring Mad Grit, Agitation, and/or Iron Grasp. You can make it really far with those perks. :)
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
If that was the case killers would have never received buffs, as killers have always been above the +50% kill rate. They do not look exclusively at kill rates when making balance changes or else we'd have bizarre things like nerfing Pig and buffing Nurse.
Pig has been nerfed several times and Nurse was recently ‘buffed’ through add-on improvements.
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@fake said:
I have been proposing the HUSK-system as a solution to DC and suicide for a long time. As a matter of fact, there has been no follow-up, although the developers have stated that they are working towards releasing it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/334435/dc-survivors-husk-system-i-remember
1. first, remove the DC penalty.
2. players who DC will leave HUSK and the game will continue; HUSK will be controlled by AI according to MMR.
3.This allows a player who has been crying on the hook and pretty much killing himself to make a DC and end the game without inconveniencing other players.
4. however, if you frequently DC to HUSK, you may need to be penalized. Like a decrease in efficiency of getting Blood Points on the game.
There may be a better way, but I support this feature.
My issue with this suggestion is that if I’ve 2nd hooked a survivor mid-game and they die from that hook, I wouldn’t want them replaced by another survivor—whether AI controlled or not. That survivor is gone now, so the match is theoretically easier for me; as it should be.
As a survivor, what exactly is this ‘bonus’? Is it a buff to get repair speeds, healing, the number of hits I and other survivors can take—all things that are influenced by the presence of a functional survivor. Or is it just a few bloodpoints to compensate for the early game loss? Since survivors generally earn fewer bloodpoints than killers and have a much tougher time scoring emblems, are these rewards reconfigured in a way that reasonably synchronizes with this suggestion?
These are questions and concerns that need answering.
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@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3213015#Comment_3213015
Good point, tho. Because all other PVP multiplayer game have TEAMS and those teams play as teams from start to end. In case you really want to make suicide on hooks impossible, then you should remove mid-game elimination itself. No deaths mid-game - no suicides.
This topic is a wash, but I was curious about your response specifically. Survivors aren’t a team in DBD, but... if they were how would no ‘mid-game’ deaths look? Killers pressure matches by scoring early sacrifices. Survivors lose pressure in these situations. If survivors didn’t die in the early or mindgame it would stop killers from applying pressure, no..?
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@Nazzzak said:
IMO this update isnt even about the current slugging. It's about keeping hooks relevant in future. Finishing Mori has the opportunity to end a game with little to no hooks, as it activates not only on a full team slug but a combination of dead, downed, and hooked survivors. Basekit Unbreakable encourages killers to keep hooking. The latter wouldn't be needed without the former, and vice versa.
I don’t think the basekit UB was a response to routine slugging either. They just knew they had to do something prevent quick death games with the new mori system.
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210426#Comment_3210426
I don't personally think that she takes great skill, but she certainly doesn't play like your average M1 killer. You don't "loop" around stuff by holding W, you use her power as the main way of ending chases and sometimes to traverse the map more quickly, which can take a good while to get used to, which is I why I believe the main reason why Nurse has the lowest winrate is cause of the first games one plays as her. You will not get a good or even decent kill rate in the beginning as her, but it will for sure pop off after you get used to her power.
I agree. But is that whole ‘great skill’ bit still an argument people make in defense of her brokenness?
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I suspect people are upset because they believe BHVR is being disingenuous. BHVR didn’t change flashlights to enhance accessibility—as had been previously stated, there are killer powers and other features in game that still trigger epileptic seizures. They in all likelihood nerfed flashlights because players complained about them.
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210411#Comment_3210411
I only remember a statistic they released a good while back where her kill rate was around 47% or so, the only killer with a kill rate less than 50%. It may have not been that bad, but when you compare it to the other killers, who all had a kill rate above 50%, some even reaching 60%, it is still significant.
Hmm. That’s the number I remember, too. But wasn’t there something off or different about her that made her kill rate misleading? It may have been linked to the notion that playing her required great skill. She just wasn’t/isn’t really viewed or weighted like other killers.
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210303#Comment_3210303
It is still concerning though. Killer mains would scream as well if it said "61% escape rate" instead.
It's all about causation and what you do with the stats. The main reason why Nurse is so low is cause one is probably going to have a really bad time the first times they play her, which is why her kill rate was the lowest in the stats.
Ofc, 61% COULD say that most survs are just bad, need to "git gud" and are low MMR , but it COULD also mean that the killer role is currently too powerful or dominate in certain areas a little too much.
Is Nurse’s kill rate really so low? I thought her killer rate, while the lowest of all killers, was just a few points below 50%. It’s not like it was 20% or something; it was actually pretty good…
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I don’t believe the change to flashlights was made with accessibility in mind, but it seems to be a change some players will find helpful. It’s a good change regardless of the true reason behind it, though. I wish they’d do something about Doctor’s loud noises. People with hearing sensitivity and sensory overload find that awful to experience.
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There are survivor challenges that can be obtained through regular gameplay (vaulting in chase, healing injured survivors, working on gens with other survivors). But yes it does seem that a plurality of survivor tome challenges require suboptimal play. I wonder why that is.
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@jaymiechan said:
Honestly, just to point out, there's a Jurassic Park problem regarding basing it all on kill rates: remember in the novel, where Wu pushed and pointed towards a bell curve, but Malcolm pointed out that, due to populace releases, there should be instead a bump-style progression, with multiple bells? We have the same problem just with "skill level" regarding the playerbase. New/low skill level? would have 0K, and in a good long-term game, is where most of the playerbase growth is gonna be, until they put in the time to raise in skill. This means that many learning killers will skew 0-1K. Mid-skill level will be where the balance will be, at best, but High Skill, with the lowest total playerbase, will be broken to hell and back, to counterbalance the low kill rate of, again, the bad-playing LEARNING playerbase with the far higher populace.
In short, you'd have yet another 3-bump graph, instead of the assumed bell curve, based on kill rates....and being balanced around kill rates sucks because it's based on a growing playerbase who starts out newbs, which unfairly balances against the mid and high skill levels, artificially deflating "kill rates" if bell-curved like BHVR seems to want it to be.
There's an inherent bias on BHVR's side regarding this, and they need to change the metrics by which they decide what is "balanced" or not.
While there’s overlap, killers perform best at low to mid ranks and struggle at high ranks. So killers (both new and veteran) 3-4K easiest against newer survivors (low to mid ranks), not experienced survivors (mid to high ranks). Survivors perform poorly at low to mid ranks (failing to escape), but perform better at mid to high ranks (consistent escapes). Balancing low ranks would mean survivors require more enhancements. Balancing at high ranks means killers need that attention.
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There are survivor perks that help with endgame hook saves but I can’t recall a time I’ve seen anyone use them. Personally, I’ve managed to pull off EGC saves as the last upright survivor in a match so it can be done. It’s tough, but possible. I suppose on that note as both killer and survivor I’ve seen EGC scenarios snowball into a 3-4K. Also rare but possible.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208939#Comment_3208939
You want to state that people are trying to downplay survivors leaving the game, but you can't actually prove this is the case.
I mean your entire response was a begging the question fallacy, so I assumed you weren’t serious. And now I know that you definitely aren’t. You’re dismissed.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208929#Comment_3208929
I asked if YOU can prove it.
1.) You didn’t really ask anything; your ‘question’ ended with a statement.
2.) I directed you to where you should go.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208887#Comment_3208887
Can you actually prove there is significantly fewer people queueing up as survivor, because all the incentive system is doing is showing which role needs players to start games which will generally be survivor because the game needs 80% of the players to play as survivor for balanced matchmaking.
Not to mention the incentive do switch to killer here and there so it's not even like the game is always looking for more survivors.
…Yes, it can be proven. Tag Mandy or Peenits and request that information.
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Where I live it always appears to be on survivor. Doesn’t matter when I log in, survivor has the 100% bloodpoints bonus. I did see it shift to killer (~25%) once a few days after the update, though. It might change really late at night; I haven’t tested. But when I queue as killer it takes a while for me to get a match.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208499#Comment_3208499
And i am also in EU, it just happens sometimes for one or two matches. 95% of times it always on survivors.
I loved how you took screenshot for the moment it was on killer and you made it from 9 pm to 11 pm for every evening.
I’ve noticed a concerted effort by killer players here to marginalize the fact that in the wake of patch 6.1.0, significantly fewer players queue as survivor. I think they’re afraid that if the truth catches on, more changes from that patch will be reverted to bring survivors back.
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I don’t think I’ve ever had a match where any of the killers you’ve named have slugged survivors. Myers largely doesn’t slug because he usually has the add-ons to mori. Hag doesn’t really need to slug; she can teleport across the map. I’d think Pig slugging would work even better now with the new mechanic as she has the traps that were recently buffed. And for whatever reason, the other m1 killers just down and hook in my games. Also Freddy and Demogorgon aren’t m1 killers. Nor is Hag.
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To be fair I rarely saw/see survivors bring BT (outside of SWF) and UB was pretty uncommon too. In my experience, survivors usually just deal with being slugged or disconnect after a couple of minutes. Most killers generally pick up immediately in my games. I can’t imagine slugging is much of a tactic for any killer besides Nurse, and even she doesn’t need it to win.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206944#Comment_3206944
Basekit Unbreakable is purely to make it harder for killers to slug all four survivors at once.
Sadly it won't have much impact on two survivors.
It wouldn't be necessary if they just implemented a less radical Mori system.
I think they made UB basekit so killers can’t slug three survivors then down & mori the fourth, leading the entity to claim the three slugs. Without basekit UB killers could end the game with zero hooks. And survivors rarely run UB so BHVR didn’t want to make another situation where survivors are forced to run a perk to play the game.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207081#Comment_3207081
So, the entire point of MMR was to match you with people at your skill level and it doesn't do that.
It doesn’t work as efficiently as it’s meant to because there isn’t a large enough pool of analogous players to make a match work. If your MMR is 35, you need four survivors who also have an MMR rating of 35. The system could be designed to prioritize linking you with four survivors who have that specific MMR rating (or fall within the threshold b/c I believe MMR isn’t a solid number but a spectrum), or it could get you in a game in under 20 minutes. Most players aren’t going to wait 20+ minutes for a game, and BHVR knows that. So the matchmaking system works well from a business standpoint by getting more people into matches quickly, versus accurately.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206945#Comment_3206945
You think MMR works 😂
MMR works. It’s just there are huge discrepancies between the rankings of killers and survivors, so it prioritizes queue times (faster) over queue homogeneity (equalization of skill across all players). If it didn’t, killers would likely wait 20+ minutes for matches. They more easily rise through MMR, after all, while solo queue survivors, the majority of the survivor playerbase, do not. I personally wished MMR prioritized skill equalization over times because I think it would give killers something to think about.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3206385#Comment_3206385
ah yes and you know that its soft capped how?
and im losing because they are running 4 prove thyself yes that's my mistake for letting them run 4 prove thyself right and im losing because they are on voice chat that's my fault right ?
tbh yes its my fault didn't dodge to begin with
If they’re all running Prove Thyself that is a terrible tactic. There is no strategic reason a 4-man SWF should have 4 PTs. Sounds more like randoms than a coordinated team.
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Bots will help. Then you can crush them without worrying about whether they’ll die on hook before you’re ready for a game to end.
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If you’re a regular player, it seems unlikely you’re facing 4-man SWF every game. That’s like 2% of all games, according to BHVR. But I also know it’s very unlikely you’re facing solo queue players every game, as it’s enormously difficult for solo queue players to reach mid to high MMR. So maybe you are facing a lot of SWFs.
In any case, killers absolutely camp and tunnel at low and mid MMR—quite often. So it’s not really a high MMR thing. Killers do it because it’s super easy, cheap, and allows the game to snowball really fast. Survivors play SWF because they’re very easily crushed as solo queue players. If killers eased up on solo queue players, and stopped sweating/tryharding, then survivors may feel more comfortable solo queueing and you’d see less SWFs at higher MMRs. But because all that matters to killers is the 4K, you get what you’ve got.
In a way, you created this beast. Now you must Nurse it.
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Not before Shelterwoods… or really any of the MacMillan estate maps..
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Maybe in SWF but then SWF are already doing sabo builds. I don’t think it’s going to change anything for solo queue at all. I tried running a sabo build in solo queue and it totally failed. Without the ability to communicate with other survivors and basically plan where you’ll go down, it’s virtually impossible to really make a sabo build work.
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@legacycolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205035#Comment_3205035
They probably would’ve died anyway, crybabies are bad most of the time.
Every time I see someone comment “crybabies” on this forum I’m convinced they’re like 12 years old. And if they’re not, then yikes. Lol
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@Aneurysm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204989#Comment_3204989
Yeah like people assumed the basekit BT would lead to more people running actual BT just to strengthen effects that are already there. I don't see unbreakable becoming more popular.
People stopped using BT when survivors got default 5 seconds of endurance + haste. And even before that it was uncommon in solo queue. I personally haven’t seen it since 6.1. I can’t remember the last time I saw UB. Most killers pick up and hook immediately.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204852#Comment_3204852
76% kill rate is mediocre?
At high MMR, when every survivor team you face is Seal Team Six no less…
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@TheArbiter said:
I don't get why they made unbreakable basekit when it should've been kindred instead, now killers like Oni and Twins and tier 3 Myers are literally pointless
While I don’t know about Oni, I believe the Twins (and maybe Myers as well?) are on the roadmap for changes.
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I think my favorite response from killers when the topic of slugging comes up is: “just open another tab and do something else.” Lol. It’s so bat$#!%. I can’t think of any other game—not a single one—where a ‘slugging’ feature exists or that telling a player subjected to it is at all permissible.
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@GoshJosh said:
Seriously, we just asked for an option to bleed ourselves out faster. Slugging is a perfectly normal and valid killer strategy at certain points of the game. Just that no one wanted to lay on the ground for up to four minutes because of some salty or toxic killer.
I think another reason for this change is to slow down hooked survivors who are failing skill checks to leave a match. Killers want to be the power role/the decision-makers and for many of them that includes forcing survivors who try to die early on hook to stay in the match (via slugging) or risk a DC penalty.
Well, now those survivors are in the match and have to either contribute something or exist as a farm mechanism for the killer.
Allowing survivors to just bleed out faster or at will is the same as allowing them to die fast on hooks. Killers can’t really complain about this supposed survivor ragequit epidemic but decry BHVR’s attempts at moderating it.
Survivors won’t be punished for dying early on hooks no matter how much killers want that to be a thing. Survivors won’t receive harsher DC penalties beyond what already exists no matter how much killers want //that// to be a thing. Survivors, however, will be forced to at least remain in the match in an upright, active status after being downed so that the killer can farm some points off of them. Their teammates can farm too by healing.
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Why do killers need slugging as a competitive edge? They recently received several buffs and can easily stack generator slowdown perks (as they have been) to control the flow of a match.
I’m not understanding why, along with camping & tunneling & 2-4 slowdown builds (that seem to be working if we go by the 61% kill rate), killers also get these in built moris and the ability to slug for however long they’d like, up to 4 minutes. Something seems disproportionate here but I’m not sure what.
Also.., You realize that the characters slugged are actually being controlled by real human players, no? People who, like you, have purchased this game and, quite oddly, believe they have some right to enjoy it. What fun is it for a human player to be incapacitated from the game for up to 4 minutes..?
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@RpTheHotrod said:
My only issue with this (as a killer main) is that it will make people who run boil absolutely untouchable on certain maps. They can just run to 2nd or 3rd floor. Under normal circumstances, you just slug them (since it's impossible to get to a hook). This causes pressure by other survivors having to pull off gens to get them. However, now they can just get themselves up. That means they are literally immune to the killer for the match. If you chase, they just W right to the spot. Can't hook them. Just have to leave. If you chase them there, it's fruitless and 3 survivors are working on gens. If you don't chase, they get a free pass to work on gens.
Want guaranteed wins with an swf? Everyone runs boil and unbreakable and bring a map offering with a 2nd or 3rd story. Everyone just runs to the safe zone if they get aggro.
I haven’t struggled with facing B/O and UB on second story maps since B/O was nerfed*. In fact when I play killer I rarely see that combo. I actually don’t think I’ve seen it once since B/O’s nerf. I’m sure people still use it, it just doesn’t seem very common. And most 2nd floor maps have hooks on both floors. If you’re running iron grasp or agitation, you can definitely make it on the one map that sometimes has odd 2nd floor hookspawns (Midwich, but I don’t personally run those perks and haven’t had an issue).
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201282#Comment_3201282
It does more to combat actual realistic slugging (i.e. prioritizing targets in chase, hook sabo/slugs no longer resetting wiggle, hooks removed by kills creating deadzones, etc) than it does to stop the fringe cases people complained about (4 slug nurse momentum, BM bleedout, etc.) Sure it has an impact on the latter, but hurts the former considerably more when they were reasonable applications and more likely to occur. If your comparison is accurate, then perks like Agitation or Iron Grasp now need to take the same basekit jump since this change made those problems both worse and more exploitable.
Basically they took the usual "nerf the whole perk because of one extreme synergy" approach to a core gameplay mechanic.
How does your “strategic slugging” affect the human player being slugged?
And while you think up an answer to that question, could you name any other game that effectively allows one player to prevent another player from leaving or participating in normal gameplay for minutes at a time?
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The match would end. She’d enter the mori animation for the last survivor she downed and simultaneously the other three would be sacrificed.