Artemisha
Artemisha
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@miketheratguy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188684#Comment_2188684
Yeah I mean I really don't like taking sides or generalizing but my own experience has been that 100 percent of the negative behavior / toxicity has come from survivors so far. I feel legitimately embarrassed when I go to escape and everyone but me is doing the teabag dance. I wish I could say to the killer "I apologize for these guys, we're not ALL twelve years old". Similarly any trash talk I've seen in the end-game chat has been from survivors, sometimes even directed at the other survivors.
I know that this doesn't describe every survivor but it's a shame that it's so prevalent. If the reason why survivor matches get significantly less easy to find in the evening because killers just don't feel like dealing with sweaty survivor teams, I honestly can't blame them. Like you said, they're just making the lobbies worse (and therefore making the game worse for everybody) by being that way.
You can say that indeed. I write it on the end game chat it if my team-mates are t-bagging or complaining with no reason.
I don´t like these type of behavoiurs, independently if they are on my team or not.
I think this is not a specially toxic game or community. But game experience would be much better if every player had consideration and respect towards the other players.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191160#Comment_2191160
It suffices to say our experiences do not line up. I play Solo Survivor too, roughly equal to the hours I play Killer. I played a rather large number of matches the last few days to get Gnomes for myself and my gal (who has not been able to play and would miss the event). Total, between my own account and hers, I played twenty-four games to get those damn Gnomes. In my own account, fourteen of those matches are accounted for. I personally died only four times, and none of them were due to Camping or Tunneling. I was camped a total of twice, but in both cases my teammates were able to take me off the hook despite the Killer being right there. Of these fourteen games, six were wins for the survivors, i.e. 3+ Survivors got out. Four were draws, wherein the Killer got two of us and the others got away. Four wins went to the Killer with 3+ Kills. Since you understand statistics and probability, I'm sure you can parse those numbers for yourself. It suffices to say that your experience with the Killer winning 85% and the Survivors winning 15% is radically different from mine.
However, let's talk about the additional ten games I played on my Gal's account. I died only once and the Killer did tunnel me and proceed to camp me until dead. Six of these matches went to the Killer with 3+ kills, two were draws, and two were victories for the Survivors. Even these numbers do not come close to your experience. I submit, my gal doesn't have near the Perk selection I do and thus I had less to work with and didn't support my team as much as I would have normally done. :) I'll let you do the numbers yourself for the overall metrics. My point is that your experience and my experience are different. The DEV are the only ones that really see EVERYONE'S numbers. You cannot let this Forum give you a Fun House view of the game, stretching and distorting things. For you and I, this game is a luxury item. It is a diversion. For the DEV it is they JOB. Their paychecks depend on this game doing well and extending into the next decade. Who do you think has a greater vested interest in the game, them or us? :) I'm not trying to be snide; I'm just making a point. We assume, because we WANT things, that they just don't understand, aren't competent, and so on. It is hard for me not to consider that perhaps we are being a bit self-involved and arrogant? The DEV don't talk to us much anymore, but can you blame them? I wouldn't talk to us either.
Yep. Our game experience is not equal or close.
I tried to search my historical win rate on games but I only found some information on https://dbd.onteh.net.au/ . Idk if there is another way. In that case, please tell me =D.
Anyway, that stats don´t say the win rate / kills escapes u have. So, in order to have a more precise data than mi memory, I have started to register my games and take out my "real" stats.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192545#Comment_2192545
about the killer being the power. Yes they are as they should be but survivors would stand more of a chance if they worked together. Yes I know this is unrelated.
Agree, But solo survivors could coordinate and play better if they had more game information. Solo survivors are demolished. Specially by characters are spirits, bubbas, blights.....
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@sesawyer3127 said:
In the last two days I have seen more camping and tunneling than I have in months. I think it is because all these killer mains are trying to get back in the red ranks since the rank reset debacle. So, the ones who usually don't do it I think are just to get back to where they were. Some of the ones justifying it should play solo survivor for a few days and I think your tune will change. I have played killer and have absolutely no idea what I am doing and in a few days I obtained 7 ranks,,, SEVEN with putting no bloodpoints in the character and only using one perk, Thrilling Tremors because that came with Ghost Face. It should not be this easy at any rank!!! I just stopped playing because it got boring.
I can tell you without a doubt killer is way easier than solo survivor by a long shot! Anyone who says otherwise is just plain lying. Killers such as Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, and Bubba (who is the biggest camper of them all) are so OP if the player has even the slightest clue of what they are doing. In a 6 hour game play this is all the killers who are playing, no one else. It just gets old having a Wraith cloak right next to the hook always and proxy camp, a Spirit vape right to you every single time and down you, and Bubba camp you constantly.
Lets face it, killers camp and tunnel because it works, simple end of story. Its not a great "tactic" because if it were every single streamer would be doing it. They do not at all because all their followers would call them out on it as being lazy and dumb. So if it so great why don't I see one single true streamer employing it in a game online? It is not a strategy to hook and sit by said hook until the person dies lol. Strategies involve thought and maneuvering and when you hook and camp subsequently causing no one to rescue you are wasting time and being a dick because you like FW players and getting points.
see come spanish speakers streamers doing it on Twitch, Facamping a guy because he is losing hard the game and get tilted. They also m1 the guy on hook and say "yes" moving up and down the killers head. Saying: u aregoing to die "hahaha".
I liked their stream, but when I noticed they enjoyed doing these practices I just stopped watching them. Personally don´t like these unsportive and disrespectful manners.
And yes, killer is by far the strong side of the game. I don´t like play killer because u play alone and I feel it like it´s a stronger side. I prefer playing on the underdog role.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
In the last two days I have seen more camping and tunneling than I have in months. I think it is because all these killer mains are trying to get back in the red ranks since the rank reset debacle. So, the ones who usually don't do it I think are just to get back to where they were. Some of the ones justifying it should play solo survivor for a few days and I think your tune will change. I have played killer and have absolutely no idea what I am doing and in a few days I obtained 7 ranks,,, SEVEN with putting no bloodpoints in the character and only using one perk, Thrilling Tremors because that came with Ghost Face. It should not be this easy at any rank!!! I just stopped playing because it got boring.
I can tell you without a doubt killer is way easier than solo survivor by a long shot! Anyone who says otherwise is just plain lying. Killers such as Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, and Bubba (who is the biggest camper of them all) are so OP if the player has even the slightest clue of what they are doing. In a 6 hour game play this is all the killers who are playing, no one else. It just gets old having a Wraith cloak right next to the hook always and proxy camp, a Spirit vape right to you every single time and down you, and Bubba camp you constantly.
Lets face it, killers camp and tunnel because it works, simple end of story. Its not a great "tactic" because if it were every single streamer would be doing it. They do not at all because all their followers would call them out on it as being lazy and dumb. So if it so great why don't I see one single true streamer employing it in a game online? It is not a strategy to hook and sit by said hook until the person dies lol. Strategies involve thought and maneuvering and when you hook and camp subsequently causing no one to rescue you are wasting time and being a dick because you like FW players and getting points.
see come spanish speakers streamers doing it on Twitch, Facamping a guy because he is losing hard the game and get tilted. They also m1 the guy on hook and say "yes" moving up and down the killers head. Saying: u aregoing to die "hahaha".
I liked their stream, but when I noticed they enjoyed doing these practices I just stopped watching them. Personally don´t like these unsportive and disrespectful manners.
And yes, killer is by far the strong side of the game. I don´t like play killer because u play alone and I feel it like it´s a stronger side. I prefer playing on the underdog role.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
In the last two days I have seen more camping and tunneling than I have in months. I think it is because all these killer mains are trying to get back in the red ranks since the rank reset debacle. So, the ones who usually don't do it I think are just to get back to where they were. Some of the ones justifying it should play solo survivor for a few days and I think your tune will change. I have played killer and have absolutely no idea what I am doing and in a few days I obtained 7 ranks,,, SEVEN with putting no bloodpoints in the character and only using one perk, Thrilling Tremors because that came with Ghost Face. It should not be this easy at any rank!!! I just stopped playing because it got boring.
I can tell you without a doubt killer is way easier than solo survivor by a long shot! Anyone who says otherwise is just plain lying. Killers such as Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, and Bubba (who is the biggest camper of them all) are so OP if the player has even the slightest clue of what they are doing. In a 6 hour game play this is all the killers who are playing, no one else. It just gets old having a Wraith cloak right next to the hook always and proxy camp, a Spirit vape right to you every single time and down you, and Bubba camp you constantly.
Lets face it, killers camp and tunnel because it works, simple end of story. Its not a great "tactic" because if it were every single streamer would be doing it. They do not at all because all their followers would call them out on it as being lazy and dumb. So if it so great why don't I see one single true streamer employing it in a game online? It is not a strategy to hook and sit by said hook until the person dies lol. Strategies involve thought and maneuvering and when you hook and camp subsequently causing no one to rescue you are wasting time and being a dick because you like FW players and getting points.
see come spanish speakers streamers doing it on Twitch, Facamping a guy because he is losing hard the game and get tilted. They also m1 the guy on hook and say "yes" moving up and down the killers head. Saying: u aregoing to die "hahaha".
I liked their stream, but when I noticed they enjoyed doing these practices I just stopped watching them. Personally don´t like these unsportive and disrespectful manners.
And yes, killer is by far the strong side of the game. I don´t like play killer because u play alone and I feel it like it´s a stronger side. I prefer playing on the underdog role.
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Why my last post is: waiting to be approved? Did I brake the forum rules or spoken something in bad manners?
see come spanish speakers streamers doing it on Twitch, Facamping a guy because he is losing hard the game and get tilted. They also m1 the guy on hook and say "yes" moving up and down the killers head. Saying: u aregoing to die "hahaha".
I liked their stream, but when I noticed they enjoyed doing these practices I just stopped watching them. Personally don´t like these unsportive and disrespectful manners.
And yes, killer is by far the strong side of the game. I don´t like play killer because u play alone and I feel it like it´s a stronger side. I prefer playing on the underdog role.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
In the last two days I have seen more camping and tunneling than I have in months. I think it is because all these killer mains are trying to get back in the red ranks since the rank reset debacle. So, the ones who usually don't do it I think are just to get back to where they were. Some of the ones justifying it should play solo survivor for a few days and I think your tune will change. I have played killer and have absolutely no idea what I am doing and in a few days I obtained 7 ranks,,, SEVEN with putting no bloodpoints in the character and only using one perk, Thrilling Tremors because that came with Ghost Face. It should not be this easy at any rank!!! I just stopped playing because it got boring.
I can tell you without a doubt killer is way easier than solo survivor by a long shot! Anyone who says otherwise is just plain lying. Killers such as Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, and Bubba (who is the biggest camper of them all) are so OP if the player has even the slightest clue of what they are doing. In a 6 hour game play this is all the killers who are playing, no one else. It just gets old having a Wraith cloak right next to the hook always and proxy camp, a Spirit vape right to you every single time and down you, and Bubba camp you constantly.
Lets face it, killers camp and tunnel because it works, simple end of story. Its not a great "tactic" because if it were every single streamer would be doing it. They do not at all because all their followers would call them out on it as being lazy and dumb. So if it so great why don't I see one single true streamer employing it in a game online? It is not a strategy to hook and sit by said hook until the person dies lol. Strategies involve thought and maneuvering and when you hook and camp subsequently causing no one to rescue you are wasting time and being a dick because you like FW players and getting points.
I see come spanish speakers streamers doing it on Twitch, Facamping a guy because he is losing hard the game and get tilted. They also m1 the guy on hook and say "yes" moving up and down the killers head. Saying: u aregoing to die "hahaha".
I liked their stream, but when I noticed they enjoyed doing these practices I just stopped watching them. Personally don´t like these unsportive and disrespectful manners.
And yes, killer is by far the strong side of the game. I don´t like play killer because u play alone and I feel it like it´s a stronger side. I prefer playing on the underdog role.
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@SammiieK1991 said:
If I ever get a face camper I just suicide. The davids today have proven a point this morning they don't like going for a save. In the lab map, i was hooked infront of the exit gate. David opened that door, bubba just stood watching him do it and he just ran out. And this David hadn't been slapped or hooked so he could of easily taken a slap and both got out 😂 but nope, opens the gate and does a runner.... if anyone was that David. Cheers bro ✌😂
Rescue into a facecamper Bubba? Haha good luck on that.
If that was any other killer, ok. You try, but agains Bubba it´s better to leave or he will chainsaw down all the team.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192161#Comment_2192161
Why is it a bad mechanic?
The Killer's goal is to kill you. Why do you get to say 'I don't like this way of dying; remove it'?
It's a PvP game, after all. Do you think it would be okay to log into CS:GO and say 'I get sniped within 3 seconds of match start. Remove snipers. They're unfun because I don't get to play'? No, because the enemy teams goal is to kill you. They're just using the tools the game gives them.
But, for some reason, Survivors seem to think that they have some right to either demand, or shame, Killers into playing 'right' and writing rules and demanding changes to make the game follow their made-up rulebook.
I'll say it again; The Killer's goal, is to kill you. Not to ask you if you had fun. Not to make sure you fill a fun quota.
Losing sucks, so being stuck on hook sucks. But it's a PvP game; someone is always going to lose. But you don't demand player agency be taken away because you don't approve of how they won, or disapprove of how you lost.
And yes, gen speeds do need to be looked at. I'm a firm believer that camping will decrease if Killer's are not feeling the time crunch to remove someone ASAP because they have around 6-7 minutes to work with.
But adding a 6th gen would be too much. It's just more 'mindlessly holding M1' that Survivors dislike, and it may add too much time.
Maybe minigames? Like how Among Us does it; where you have to tie wires together, and put gears in, and add fuel. But all done on one generator. Puzzle-like, and more interactive, is what I'm saying.
In the case u comment we are talking about a simmetrical game. They snipe you and you are out. That´s ok. But you can evade the shot, you can kill the other guy with a pistol, with a machine gun, or you can snipe him too.
In DBD survivor can´t do anything if they get camped and tunneled. Their other teeammates will be making their stuff, but u are just on the hook, waiting to be hooked again. There are some perks, but is not enough as there is no communication or information between solo survivors. If you have luck, and the time borrow guy comes to unhook, u will scape. But that guy is insta tunneled instead of u.
As you said, if survivors don´t like spam m1 on gens, maybe a 6th not the best idea. I think slowing down the progression on gens as there would be 1 guy on hook would be better. The option of minigames or something to do in hook that helps your team and yourself besides just winning time would also be nice imo.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192096#Comment_2192096
But if you remove or punish camping, you're literally punishing Killers for trying to win.
There are more times where camping is a legitimate tactic than times where it's used to troll people.
Patroling....ok. Camping sucks.....and who camps is because he is going to tunnel at 99%.
I don´t want killers lose the game. I just want they use tactics better for the gameplay experience. Killers need something to compensate camping is not allowed? Ok. Give survivors 6 gens to do, make survivors repair slower when someone is on hook....Idk... But that bad mechanic shouldn´t be meta game.
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@Kirkylad said:
I never realised the correct way to play online games was to care about other peoples experience. I'm gunna have to write a letter to the devs of all the other online games I've played because they're all clearly doing it wrong. 😂😂
I think this case is special, because we are talking about an assimetrical game. If you are playing LOL or FIFA for example, it´s just you vs a guy o squad that plays on the same conditions as you and can use the same strategies to get the victory. So you just do your best and try to win.
With DBD is different, because as killer, u are the only player on the game that can reomove someone from the game not allowing him to particpate and therefore not having fun. 90% of your time on a hook it´s not what I´d call a fun game. Imo game should reinforce all the players to explore the map, enter on chases and having interaction between then. Penalizing strategies like tunneling, camping and gen rushing.
Just one question. As an spectator of DBD games, tell me....do you prefer watching frenetic matches full of good chases or you prefer watching 1 guy on the hook, killer stand by next to him and other guys clicking m1 to repair gens? In terms of playing is the same. More action = more fun. That´s the essentia of every game. You play it because you have fun playing it.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191033#Comment_2191033
The stats have come out, about a year ago. BHVR themselves said "don't take these to heart, there are too many factors to decide if these have an actual bearing on balance."
And everyone flipped their #########. Also, because they value player agency. They believe it's a player's choice to camp, they don't want to take that away. I'm not saying that's good, or bad, but that is their view on things. You can't expect them to change it.
Clearly, the game is still going strong.
I tried to find some official stats but I found nothing :S
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191110#Comment_2191110
Pulsar and I know each other here only, and I am friendly with most people I respect. But you would be making a dangerous miscalculation (another assumption) if you think for a second that our being polite and respectful of one another means we always agree. We all have things we would like to see happen in the game. I don't think the DEV are infallible anymore than anyone else. I do think, however, they probably understand what they need to do to keep the game going better than we do because our biases (all of us) blind us to certain realities. Moreover, we don't know everything going on behind the curtain. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Camping and Tunneling are tactics. They are often identified incorrectly, and almost always exaggerated in how often they come up. I don't think most Survivors are lying on purpose, but our natural tendencies as Players is to blame others before we blame ourselves. We look for scapegoats. I'm not immune to this. I have to work hard to take off those blinders. More to the point, even if Camping and Tunneling are happening ALL THE TIME (they aren't) it simply behooves us to adapt. If there has been an increase in these tactics, I would suggest the increase runs hand in hand with the increase in the number of SWF. For better or for worse, Killers must adapt to compete. Solos do take the brunt of the existence of SWF. I often make suggestions on how to deal with what I see as the root of the problem.
In regards to being camped, I've also suggested that the person on the hook who ahs gone to Stage-2 (the Entity has arrived) should lose sight of the rest of the match. We still see them struggling against the Entity's talons on the hook, but their perception is transported into a mini-game (within the game) where they solve puzzles, perhaps fight, etc. to try and buy more time and/or perhaps even unhook themselves. This would make the time on the hook less boring, and not have the person out of the game. I'm still working out some specifics before I do a proper suggestion thread on it. The real problem isn't people being Camped or Tunneled, but rather feeling powerless and impotent on the hook. We don't need to steal something from Killers, we merely need to add some content for the hooked so they have more to do than watch OTHER people play. :)
Moundshorud......I have not enginnering on Maths or Stathistics. I know I have biasses as u said.
But for me the unbalance of the game is very simple when I see that survivors win 15% of the times and killers 85%.
Balance is a mathematical concept= around 50%. It happens in LOL, smite or whatever be the game. It doesn´t matter how good or bad you play. U will be around 50% win rate because the matchmaking works for that creating balanced and close games.
If on DBD balance means killers win and demolish solo survivors 85% of the times, and that´s how the win - rate must be.... Ok. I´ll just accept it, althought I think it´s not fair, not close, not exciting.
And if killers, by valid strategies like camp or tunnel, can get you out of the game so easily, it´s even mooore frustrating. I insist that I don´t know what would be the best option (devs and players with more hours and knowledge about the game may have a wider sight of the situation). I´m just pointing, as a regular survivor player, what for me is a problem and a situation I´d like to be revised on next updates of the game.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191119#Comment_2191119
As I said those are situations that camping is necessary when I mean camping I mean on pointless starring at one person while others freely do gens and u ruin game for both urself and other player while other 3 gets free pass camping is necessary in endgame, when survs are near hook and doesn't even try to hide themselves etc etc that ain't no toxic in any way but starring in someone over no reason is for nothing but to be toxic or if ur very bad and can't pull the game and ur satisfied with 1k and depip
Even in that condition, most survivors will go to rescue his team-mate. Although it´s not the more efficient play and they could rush gens. Specially on solo Q where informaton is very limited or inexisten compared to SWF.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190586#Comment_2190586
I kind of laughed when I read this post, because your description (assumptions) about Pulsar are kind of hilarious. He and I have had our debates in the past (some good ones too). One thing I can say about Pulsar, having been on both sides of the battlefield against him, is that he cares about this game and does his level best to help other Players. He is nice, where I am not. I've watched him spend hour after hour patiently trying to offer the benefit of his experience to people (many complaining about camping and tunneling) so that they can mitigate or beat the problem. The people he was attempting to help were rude and obnoxious but he kept trying. He is direct and not the least bit hypocritical. In short, you just made a fool of yourself. You know the old saying about assumptions right?
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game. It has winners and it has losers. The two different roles are CLEARLY defined by their titles, i.e. Killer and Survivor. A Killer's objective is to kill the Survivors, and everything within the rules is valid, legitimate and fair. Survivors mean to Survive and everything within the rules for them is also fair. Blaming other people or the game itself for one's personal failures is hobbling to you. One cannot improve until one takes responsibility for his/her own actions. You have no power over how other people play. You have no say in how the game's rules are determined. The only thing you have power over is yourself. It is far more productive to focus your energy on how YOU will mitigate or beat the issues you have in the game. In regards to fun, you are not responsible for anyone's fun by your own. You bring your own fun. If you aren't enjoying the game, you should find another. I assume if I play you that you enjoy the game; since you already understand the rules, your expectations should not be unreasonable. If you have unrealistic expectations, your fun is going to suffer and that ALSO will be your own fault.
I had answered you. And I edited 1 word because it was a misspelling and now the message is gone. I´m not going to write again that long message. Too much sloth. Hope you had the chance to read it.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190586#Comment_2190586
I kind of laughed when I read this post, because your description (assumptions) about Pulsar are kind of hilarious. He and I have had our debates in the past (some good ones too). One thing I can say about Pulsar, having been on both sides of the battlefield against him, is that he cares about this game and does his level best to help other Players. He is nice, where I am not. I've watched him spend hour after hour patiently trying to offer the benefit of his experience to people (many complaining about camping and tunneling) so that they can mitigate or beat the problem. The people he was attempting to help were rude and obnoxious but he kept trying. He is direct and not the least bit hypocritical. In short, you just made a fool of yourself. You know the old saying about assumptions right?
Dead by Daylight is a PvP game. It has winners and it has losers. The two different roles are CLEARLY defined by their titles, i.e. Killer and Survivor. A Killer's objective is to kill the Survivors, and everything within the rules is valid, legitimate and fair. Survivors mean to Survive and everything within the rules for them is also fair. Blaming other people or the game itself for one's personal failures is hobbling to you. One cannot improve until one takes responsibility for his/her own actions. You have no power over how other people play. You have no say in how the game's rules are determined. The only thing you have power over is yourself. It is far more productive to focus your energy on how YOU will mitigate or beat the issues you have in the game. In regards to fun, you are not responsible for anyone's fun by your own. You bring your own fun. If you aren't enjoying the game, you should find another. I assume if I play you that you enjoy the game; since you already understand the rules, your expectations should not be unreasonable. If you have unrealistic expectations, your fun is going to suffer and that ALSO will be your own fault.
I know the old saying about assumptions. I have played killer at the beggining and I haven´t done these "valid strategies". And if stomped survivors, I usually gave the hatch. But nevermind. Not my intention to talk bad about your friend.
As you certainly say, I play the game because I like it. And I like the concept of assimetrical action strategy game. But, I am expressing my personal opinnion about the game I play. I think that´s very licit. You also are expressing your oppinons.
Game rules allow all the tactics we have spoken about. And that makes them licit.
Anyway, I firmly think game is not balanced for those ones who play solo queue, and I have said it on many posts. If a killer play camping, tunneling and applying these "legal" technics, chances for solo survivors are almost 0. And it´s quite frustrating winning 1 game out 10 to have to deal with this tryhard strategies as well. Looks like is horrible if a killer loses a game.
SWF can deal better with these strategies as they have real time communication and game information. Solo survivors play blinded and discordinated against a killer that sometimes play as tryhard as possible to assure a 4k victory. Solo Q need to have proper tools to be able to handle this actions. And please, don´t tell me I can get in on perks. I know I can get: kindred, bond, small game and empathy. To get the same information (or even less), than the information that the SWF have for free instead of 4 perks.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190873#Comment_2190873
The thing is... People have complained for five years. The complaints are completely valid. Imo, slugging is fine and necessary sometimes (not letting people bleed out, that's just a dick move) but tunneling and camping could use some balancing. But they won't be. BHVR has made it clear they consider these tactics fine. One of the Dev's themselves regularly does it on-stream, I believe (or they used to, anyways.)
Camping and tunneling may suck, but yes, as long as the Dev's say it is, it is a valid strategy. And unless they changed their minds it's not going anywhere.
#########, unfun tactics exist in literally every multiplayer online game.
I don´t know why behaviour just consider they are good practice when people is contioniusly complainit about it. This people is who buys the skins, the dlc´s, and at the end, keep the game alive .
Too much secretism on their game stats also. Why do they save this informtion so hard? It´d be very obvius how unbalanced is this game if stats come out.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190873#Comment_2190873
It also basically forces the Killer to lose.
High-level DBD is a joke. I wouldn't use it to justify any arguments.
The issue is that for Killer, a close game feels like a loss. It feels incredibly stressful, mentally and sometimes emotionally exhausting and unfun. Why do you think queue times are so bad for Survivor?
A close game for killer is stressful.... :O
Ok man......so let´s do dbd games a walk on the beach for killers. A 4 ez pz with no stress not even good performance required.
Survivors like lambs into a sacrifice...."Oh wait...killer lost me. I´m gonna light him with my lantern so he can come and kill me with no stress. What is more....i´ll stop running and wait here to be memento moried".
Stress is neccesary. That forces people to play better. Of course game must be close do it would be a challengue for both sides (close games = more exciting). A game where people refuses to play at minute 5 is not exciting neiher fun.
Killers should be rewarded for playing in another way different than tunneling and facecamping. It´s happening just the contrary.
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@Aquamarine said:
"it's a valid strategy" is such an empty comeback whenever survivors complain about camping and tunneling. Yes, they are strategies, sometimes very effective ones, and at the same time they completely ruin the game for the other side. That's a clear design flaw, the game shouldn't have been done that way. Gens should be slower so that tunneling wasn't needed, emblems and bloodpoints should work in a way that encourages targeting different survivors.
Instead, what dbd does right now, is encouraging the strongest player (killer) to pick one opponent and ruin their game. People brush it off by saying "your team mates can do gens", yet points are personal. If one gets facecamped and 3 people escape, the dead one gets nothing out of it. A lot of times the only reason why all survivors have a fun match is that the killer wants to play nice, refuses to tunnel the weakest one and goes after someone else. DEVS should make sure that all players have fun, it shouldn't be the opponent's job.
People complain a lot of things in dbd whenever they find something frustrating, and that's exactly what they should do. Things are more likely to get changed that way. Unhappy players mean less money, worse reviews and more players quitting, which every gaming company should be interested in.
AMEN!!!
As you say on your last parragraph, if people is reporting they are not having fun, is because they are not having fun with these "valid strategies". And when a game is no more funny, people will stop playing. So simple.
As survivor, for me, fun is not equal to victory (some killers think we complaint just because we are not winning). Fun = close game. maybe win, maybe lose, balanced, active. I don´t want a game where me or another survivor is 90% of his time on the hook because killer is doing these "valid strategies".
I have seem some Dbd tournaments where camping and tunneler is not allowed. And only is allowed on late-game. That makes sense for me.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190772#Comment_2190772
Facecamping is pretty damn rare. Tunneling is fine, a lot of times you can't win a game if you constantly chase the unhooking Survivor. Sometimes, you just gotta kill someone off so that the game is a 3v1, because a 4v1 with 2 gens left is hard to win.
If you go back for a Survivor, you know the risks. You risk allowing the Killer to win. If that's acceptable to you, go for it.
Playing dirty is your opinion. I'd consider only facecamping to be "dirty." Tunneling and proxy'ing hooks are necessary at times.
You can't force your own standards of play onto other people.
I know my friend people have different standards. And I know sometimes it´s the best source. But tunneling a guy since first hook ignoring all the rest of survivors (evading them literally), I think is very tryhard and dirty. It´s not the same tunneling a good premade than a group of discordinated survivors. Today I have played with a spirit tunneling first guy on hook ignoring the rest passing at their side. Game ended in 4minutes. 1 tunneled, 1 dc, and the other guys decided they had enough. Is it legit? According to DBD rules it is. But it can´t be more ruin and dirty.
Solo survivors have a veeery low win rate on this unbalanced game. So if besides that, killer uses this tactics to win because he has no skill to win pursuing and hooking different people, that tilts the survivors of course.
Some killers think they win only if they get 4k. At the end of the day I see a lot of 4Kill matches, and veeeery few with 4 escapes. If game was balanced, the average would be 2Kills 2 escapes. It doesn´t happen. 85% of the solo survivors game is 3 or 4k. It sucks. But it sucks more if u play with a dirty killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190586#Comment_2190586
I don't expect Survivors to prolong a match, why should they expect me to?
And yes, I always try to win. If I don't give it my best shot, I feel it's disrespectful to both the other team and myself.
There are ways and ways to win.... I don´t find any honor on doing facemp and tunneling at early game.
On survivors is different. Many times when we are at the exit door we don´t just go out and let a survivor die on the hook. And many times we go there to try a rescue knowing that is very risky and we have a little chance and propably it means our personal death.
It´s an honorable code. If there is a minimum chance, you should to try rescue an unknow player negating your own "victory/ survivence". Of course we expect killers to play at their best. But, not playing so **** dirty.
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@Progamer888 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190586#Comment_2190586
If people are braindead its not his fault, nobody like losing, when you load in a match you try to win, since you will never have anything to do with this stranger, they're fun it's meaningless to you, like my fun it's meaningless to them.
Sorry to disagree again. The essence of any game is that you play it because you like it and have fun playing. Being competitive is and addition to enjoy more the game and perfectionate your skills.
If the meta game is: "i´m gonna park my bully ass here and don´t let people play", many people won´t have fun and will finish game tilted.
So they will dc, or stop playing, or insluting killer after the game. Making a bad experience, and therefore not funny for the players. With the exception of toxic players that will be very pleased and need to humilliate their rivals to feel themselves winners (i-diots).
99% of the pklayers are not playing for money or to join a professional league. It´d be nice if people wouldn´t tryhard and not abuse of ridiculous allowed mechanics than unbalance the game and ruins the fun of the game.
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@Pulsar said:
I mean if people throw the match because I tunneled a guy, I'll keep doing it
That talks a lot about you. You don´t care about others game experience. So you wanna win at any cost, don´t you? Although you are not allowing people to play the game
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That behaviour is toxic of course. Tea bags at the exit is not very polite (unless killer had tunneled and facecamped; in that case is more than correct).
As survivor if I wait for the killer at exit is just for hitting me last time. I don´t think most of the survivors are toxic. I think most survivors are nice, specially with no tryhard killers.
Keep going. We need more killers in game, man =D
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@Nos37 said:
Right...
I unhook a survivor and they immediately book it and don't know I have For the People because they're just bad and matchmaking [Bad Word] me over.
I try to open a chest with Plunderer's / Ace in the Hole, or cleanse a totem for Inner Strength, but the other survivor beats me to it? Bad matchmaking, not poor communication.
I commit to a nearly-completed gen as the killer approaches because I have Repressed Alliance and want to block the gen, but the other survivor is also commiting and won't let me use it? Bad matchmaking paired me with an inexperienced survivor; it wasn't the lack of info.
Survivors don't know which perks I have or how to activate them / let them do their thing because of matchmaking... 😁 /s
Exactly. It´s not matchmaking. Is just an unbalanced game for Solo Q because we play blind and discordinated. It´s not killer vs 4 but killer vs 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249878/what-ideas-would-be-good-to-buff-solo-queue
I would make kindred base kit not totem counter. because you could be destroying the killer's perks and at what cost. You don't have to use a perk slot to destroy a killers perks even now and totem spawns are #########.
Kindred in kit for solo survivors is the most obvius thing should be implemented. It´s a little thing that would make a bit better solo queue games.
Idk why behaviour is so scary to try buff solo queue. That´s not going to balance Solo queue games, but would be a start.
We are demolished the majority of times with 4k or 3k ez pz. Respect to the totems, solo also should know at least the quantity of totems remaining. Game is enough difficult to get to late and....."surprise mother*ackers..."=noed.
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If game was funny, balanced, not toxic.... I like after match communication.
If killer / teammates did good, is appropiate to write that. Gg wp / ggs , that stuff.....
If killer has been a facecamper or hard tunneler I also say that after match and report him negatively.
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@Progamer888 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189595#Comment_2189595
They already tried, didn't work well.
I see. I started playing some months ago. Many things I don´t know about Dbd progression.
Maybe they should give one more try.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189761#Comment_2189761
Sure, yeah. We don't want to lose our crutch.
It has nothing to do with player agency, and our ability to confirm kills.
It's in no way you demanding Survivors be given an easily abuseable crutch instead. 🙄
Keep reading that Survivor Rulebook you seem to think 'good Killers' follow like a bible. Keep whining about how 'unfun' Killers camping you are, instead of learning how to git gud.
Of course killers should chase survivors instead of campering hooks. That´s why the have higher movement speed, bloodlust, a bassic attack and a special power.
Just think about any horror movie. Killers chase survivors? Or is Michael Myers, Freddy and those guys pursuing regular citizens? Excatly! Horror movies don´t work like: "hey man,I´m here camping. I´ve got your friend. So step by so I can kill all your team! King regards. Pigsaw.
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My commentary wasn´t much elaborated, I know. But I said that camping, usually accompanied of tunneling, shouldn´t be allowed in early game.
Of course killers should camp / patrol on late game. I´m talking aboiut early game.
If killer camps with no survivors on the zone, hook progression don´t advance. And they had to seek for another one, patrol, whatever....
It´s so disgusting when facecamp and tunneling start at beggining of the game. This is not how killer should be played. Not fun for anyone (for survivors, at least).
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@ShinobuSK said:
Best solo buff would be fixed matchmaking.
So you will not end up with new teammates vs a veteran killer or vice versa.
Any other buff would make high level swf even stronger and I don't like that unless we also buff some fundamental mechanic for killers to even it out
Sorry to disagree. Even if u are with a team of red or purple solo players..... u are in total disadvantage.....
Is not about mathcmaking....solo survivor play blind, discordinated and in the unbalancedly weak side.
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@Northener1907 said:
- Kindred base-kit
- Small game base kit (Only totem numbers)
- Survivors can see perks and offerings in lobby.
- Some perks buffs
- 9 messages standart chat or voice chat
- Most important part: Add game better tutorial and pratical mode. So people can work on loops.
+1000
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@mrcdean97 said:
The devs just don't care lol and they favor the killer main community since they call those "viable tactics" however there are times when patrol camping is appropriate and times when a killer might focus on a survivor who is carrying the team. I'm gonna assume when you say face camp and tunneling it's just from the get go they hook one person and only chase them when they get unhooked. So many of y'all gonna come at me for this but if the killer has to play that way from the beginning then they are just pathetic and weak lol.
It´s a pathetic behaviour but it works. Specially against solo queue survivors.
What kind of game is that when killers hook someone and just sit there like a guardian dog. Patroling is understandeable, of course. But we talk about campering and tunneling.
That "viable" strategy doesn´t allow survivors to play and have fun.
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@Smeagolthevile said:
I'm getting so sick and tired of it. Every single match I played today, and most I play on other days, are almost exclusivly tunneler/face camper.
Yes I can run perks for it, yes half the team gets out, but it doesnt mean that it isn't ######### boring as hell and frustrating to boot.
The blood point punishment for camping does not deter it, and something needs to be done, it.
I know that the devs say 'its a valid strategy' but it makes the game blatently unfun when you are the one being tunneled/camped, and when you are not, it makes the game god awful boring because you just sit there doing gens with no pressure no chases.
If a killer camps you......your time on hook shouldn´t advance.....so ez. This way this dog-killers wouldn´t be able to camp and tunnel players.
There is no fun against playing a facecamper tunneler.
Unless gens are repaired or only 2 players remaining.
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Solo queue explained on 1 gif
Freddy Krueger GIF | Gfycat
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@swager21 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5CYQ846G1XWZ/image.png
"solo queue isnt that bad"
"Solo queue isn´t that bad...unless your objective would be survive".
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Spirit and Bubba. If spirit has a bit of skill = gg wp 4k ez.
And Bubba because he can spam his chainsaw for an eternity to one shot you. And good luck if he camps or tunnel. His power with the chainsaw is quiiiiiite long. I mean, anyone knows how much time it lasts? It´s more than 5 seconds at full charge, right? It´s veery hard to evade him.
On the contrary, I find very funny to fight against Deathslinger.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182561#Comment_2182561
Except that buffing Solo won't balance the game. :) The game is already balanced around Solo which is why SWF is causing so much havoc as we get more and more of them (and the ones we already have get better and better with practice). I agree the different Queues won't work which is why I favor the additional Perk unlocked for Killers ONLY when they face a 3+ SWF. But I'm going to double down and repeat what I've already said, you CANNOT give Solo anything that will remotely be like what SWF have without having to rebalance the entire game. Even then it probably isn't possible. Playing regularly with friends forges "Seal Team SWF," my little play on words for Seal Team 6. Simple buffs won't provide that. A SWF is more than the massive boost the 5th Perk (Comms) provides. It is about more than communication inside the game. It is knowing the other Survivors in a personal way, communicating without even having to communicate, and the team having plans of actions, policies, and practices already worked out over time for each situation. Solo won't ever have that regardless of Buffs. That is why the only solution is to target Buff Killers but ONLY when they face a SWF. They go back to normal against Solo.
I understand your point. And I agree 1 perk won´t compare solo queue to the advantages they have in SWF. I don´t even aspire to that,
But I respectfully disagree with you on that game is balanced for solo survivors. I only play solo queue, and I can tell you win rate for survivors on my games are around 15%. Balance is a stadistic concept and it happens when both sides get around 50% win rate. Until win rate for Solo survivors - killer won´t be near around 50%, we can not say game is balanced. Is clearly not. balanced.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182460#Comment_2182460
Exactly. Balance is a harsh mistress and balancing a game like DbD is always precarious, hard and a work in progress. Suddenly trying to buff Solo up to match SWF is a massive undertaking and not really possible short of giving Solo exactly the same Comms. That runs into lots of obstacles:
- Not everyone is comfortable talking to total strangers (for a variety of reason).
- Talk between strangers (not friends) often has explosive, undesirable consequences.
- It would be even more demanding on systems to have it internalized into the code.
- It would further increase the complexity of the Spaghetti code.
- Talking to other Solos does not, in of itself, provide the coordination that regular play with friends does. They would have to play with the same Solos to develop the trust and sense of camaraderie to get the same results, and at that point aren't they just a SWF and no longer Solo?
In short, there is no way whatsoever to buff Solo to match the competitive edge that playing regularly with friends (on Comms) provides. All you would get for trying is losing all sense of balance as the entire system recoils from the shock of the changes. Imagine the changes to so many Perks that would happen, and how Killers would have to be evaluated all over again. Everything we know about balance would change overnight. It is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
However, simply unlocking an extra Perk slot for Killers when (and ONLY when) they face a 3+ SWF is a rough balancing act that in no way impacts Solo or requires everything to be rethought. It is something easily done to be tested. Would it exactly equate to the competitive edge SWF have? It is impossible to know, as it is untested potential. Not all SWF are great even with the "potential" competitive edge. Not all Killers, even with another Perk, would be better. They would merely have greater potential. I think the best we can hope for in this situation an escalation within the limited framework. The only other option is to split Solo Queues and Team Queues up so they can be balanced individually, and that is something they will never due because both Queues would slow down. No matter how you look at it, the best solution always comes back to the most direct, simple one. Buff Killers but ONLY when they face SWF. Don't change any basic powers or Perks, just add one Perk Slot to offset the 5th Perk (Comms) that SWF enjoy.
Different queue for solo and SWF would be a bad idea. So that would mean longer queues.
When I talk about buff solo, I´m not even saying giving solo queues the same advantages. I just want the game would be a close and balanced game, challenguing for both sides with a win rate about 50%. Killers simply destroy solo survivors, and they don´t even need to play at their best for that. So those games are not funny, neither exciting. Many people dc or suicide on solo games. It´s not the best behaviour, but sometimes games are so unfairly onesided that survivors lose interest on trying to survive.
Regarding SWF i keep saying I have no a certain idea as I don´t play it. At competitive levels I see many times killers can handle a "pro" team, and take 3 or 4 kills. But I suppose that only happens with tier S killer like nurse, spirit or Blight.
They should try to buff solo queue for sure. And killer vs SWF (if that´s really unabalanced as well; I insist I have no diea about that).
I mean.....what´s the worst thing can happen??? Balance the game???? xDDDD
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182378#Comment_2182378
There's already a perk for that - it's called Bond. Frankly, I don't understand why more people don't run it - the amount of info it gives you is insane. And it's not a perk you have to pay for as it's a Dwight perk. It's part of my standard build on my main Survivor when I solo-Q.
Of course there is.....but SWF have much more information without using perks.
So Solo survivors are in disadvantage.
Solo Q survivors are destroyed by killers the majority of the games. Stats don´t lie. There´s no balance for Solo survivors. Not even close to a 50% win rate. Being generous, solo survivors win 15-20% of the matches.
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@Moundshroud said:
We don't need to balance the game around SWF. We simply need a buff that only triggers for Killers when they fight against a SWF. That way Perks, gear, add-on(s), etc. don't have to be altered to try and fix the problem. The easiest solution is for the system to unlock an extra Perk Slot for Killers when they face a 3+ SWF. This doesn't impact the Solo Queue and doesn't require massive buffs and rewrites of existing things, forcing a rebalance of the entire game.
We can test this for a bit and see if one more Perk helps off set the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms).
All trying to buff Solo Queue up to match SWF will do is require another set of buffs for Killers and we end up back in the same damn spot down the road. The issue is a competitive edge that only SWF have. The answer is to provide a competitive edge to the Killer that only triggers when they fight a SWF.
That is interesting. Buffing killers against SWF 3 or more. Not all the time.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2181637#Comment_2181637
The problem with that is, that its still no match to the information level of SWF.
@ShinobuSK said:
Many people on forum talking about balancing game around SWF means we need to buff solo queue and killers. So I was wondering how exactly people want it to be done?
These are my ideas and I am free to criticism
-Survivors will gain more BP for their actions, or simply they gain them faster, more like killers do without BBQ
-Survivors gain aura reading part of Kindred, which will make perk do something else.
-Survivors will get ping system wheel with things like "finish this gen", "let me go for the save", "unhook me now, killer went away" and so on, simple few options to use without voice chat
Killers buff:
-kicking a gen without Pop will do 3% regression and/or gen tapping will be reworked so that survivors will have to work on the gen same amount of time that kicking animation lasts, to resume repairs
-killers get a FOV slider where lowest setting will be current FOV and highest setting will be like using current Shadowborn tier 3 (perk will be reworked to do something else after this)
What do you guys think? I know many issues with balancing are map and RNG related, but I don't want to talk about that, rather change some general game mechanics instead.
Understandably, changes like these would need a lot of testing to do before implementing.
i like your ideas. I had proposed for solo survivors to have a kindred free in kit. Pinging system or voice commands it´d be useful for balance the game.
As solo survivor, I´m really tired of 4kills assasin 85% of the games.
Voice chat, I don´t know....but what i would do is to improve the communication out of the game. Is impossible to invite or chat to a player that is on lobby or in a game. While in other games is possible.
Respect to buff the killer against SWF I don´t have an oppinion as I don´t play SWF and rarely play on killer side.
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@ggezbaby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172153#Comment_2172153
i believe you, most of my games are the same way. but im aware not everyone has that experience. it seems you simply have bad luck - in regards to getting bad teammates
I see. I could consider it luck or bad luck if that wouldn´t happen 85% of the times.
I dont think is about the perks or the ability of your teammates. Because there are also better and worse killers with better and worse perks.
Best skilled survivors must be tied with top assasins, so they have a close and balanced game experience. The same with all around or low skill survivors. Everybody must have a "close" and balanced game according to his skill, so game would be an appropiate challenge. And therefore, a exciting and funny experience. And that´s how every single player should be around 50% win-loss. I play solo survivor on level 4 red rank, and survivors are destroyed 85% of the times.
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I was solo, the other guy on pc I suppose was solo.....and the guys on console as u say certainly I don´t know.
What i mean on my comment is that 85% of MY solo games are like that one: survivors demolished. Not lying.
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@PanicSquid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172110#Comment_2172110
This is the way the game was originally designed, you can't really be upset over your lack of information if you don't run information perks.
Use items to make up for gaps in your build, such as a map for totem hunting or a med-kit for heals. Or play chest roulette to see if you get what you need.
I´m not upsed about lack of information. I´m upset of losing 85% of the games ez vs killers on very unbalanced games.
No matter if you are good, regular or bad on a game, win rate must be around 50% to be balanced at any level.
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Anyone knows if there are official statistics of Solo survivors and SWF win rate? I´d love to see that information.
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@Pixel_BoomBot said:
At least give us actual examples on WHY they should buff solo survivor queues, and not just say "fix it", "balance your game", "EZ 4K with strong killer", cause that has no purpose to any solution on what you're calling out.
Solo survivors lose 85% of the games. No more reasons are needed. Balance is when both sides are around of 50% win-lose rate.
i think stats of win rate talk by themselves.
I insist, I don´t have the solution. I don´t think is nerfing to killers but buffing solo survivors. I agree with Shroompy on what he said above. Solo survivors should have some more information about the teammates at least. Every solo starting with kindred, a HUD with more information, or something like the perk obssesion that allows you to see the assasin every 30 seconds (but watching your teammates for a short moment in this case), That´d be really useful to play as a team.
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@PanicSquid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172076#Comment_2172076
I mean, you could just run Kindred. It would let your teammates see each other when you're hooked, and it would let you know what they're doing when someone else is hooked.
Don't overcomplicate it, kindred used to be a more common perk, but for some reason people shied away from it.
Of course i can take kindred, and sometimes i do. But that consums 1 perk for survivors, who could just get another perk like dead hard, self-care or something.
Solo queue play with no vission or communication. They should receive some extra information, because we play blind get demolished majority of the games.
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@Shroompy said:
You cant just say "buff solo q" or "fix your game" and expect the devs to do anything
Im not saying your wrong, but instead propose ideas to actually have a discussion.
For example, people whove seen me in these kinds of discussions know what my idea is already, add a communication wheel/ping system (similar to Apex), and maybe more HUD elements. This would buff Solo Q while not affecting SWF at all
Hi, Shroompy.I wrote it on another post.
As you, I think Solo Survivor must have extra information for playing more efficiently and having a real chance. I
I had suggested every solo would have a extra perk similar to Kindred. It´s frustrating when 0 people comes to rescue or all the team comes and it´s a party for the killer. I don´t know what´d be the most fair or balanced change, but definetely they must implement something.