ArkInk
ArkInk
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After we got the animated teaser and another number string I stopped knowing what to think. The theming and clues are impressively hard to extract concrete meaning from.
Either Jason or Pennywise make sense as the 10th anniversary not just because they're probably the two most known horror villains not on the roster along with Predator, but they're also the characters Mathieu Mcote has admitted BHVR wasn't able to get ahold of earlier in the game's life.
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@Rapid99 said:
It's cool to honor the horror genre, but… he's just so boring. He's literally the generic slasher movie killer. The poster boy of it, some would say.
Genuinely what can you do for him that would make him cooler to have than DARTH VADER, and not even just cooler. But unique enough to justify his existence.
What skills do Ghostface or Michael have? They're also just guys with knives. It's the way they behave that informed their power. Even non typical characters like Pyramid Head have a power half made up for DBD, Springtrap does too.
What made Chucky special? Him literally being 3 feet tall was the selling point, is that really 'justify this inclusion' unique? How about Leatherface? He's a guy with a chainsaw, just using it differently from the other guy with a chainsaw.
Other licensed characters? Freddy and Nemesis' power aren't even liked by a very vocal portion of their fan bases. Neither was Xenomorphs. Their unique attributes only lead to a feeling something was missing from their kits.
Dracula had plenty of unique abilities at his disposable, and they all manifested in ways we had already seen from other killers powers.
I get just not finding Jason interesting, it's not like anyone is going to make you hyped for the 4th or 5th masked murderer if you just don't have any attachment to the source material, but I always find it weird when people say "what would he even do" cause the game is literally built for him.
All the DNA that makes up DBD is built off the culture established and embodied by films like F13, his name justifies his inclusion the same way it did basically everyone else who got in.
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I'm going to be real, JVAGJ is complete nonsense where you need to fully assume everything the acronym is short for despite it quite literally not ever being used in F13 (Tommy and Gina never even met)
Not saying the anniversary chapter isn't Jason, it probably is, but if this is our teaser for him, I guarantee it has a different solution than just tying a bunch of random character names and losing an 'and' along the way.
The fact one of the only numbers 493,922,017,303,481 is divisible by is 13 should be much more telling than taking the number result, randomly modifying it, then converting it to letter gibberish and making random assumptions about what the gibberish means.
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We just got a rift with three separate licences for the 10th anniversary, idk why people are acting like rereleasing legacy outfits for the 10th anniversary is the only way BHVR has decided to celebrate.
We haven't even seen the anniversary chapter yet, nor the cosmetics it'll bring.
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Shouldn't be, but I believe BHVRs stance is that while they don't have an issue with these kinds of tools, they have no built in detection to differentiate between what you want to do and proper cheats. So if they ban you, that's that.
In the context of what I hear is an actually substantial banwave currently ongoing, I'd err on the side of caution tbh
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The newest season of From currently airing revealed a great option for a standout new killer addition, though it is a mystery show so I don't want to say their name.
A playable Boyd as survivor and map of the Town would heal my heart, ngl
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@Mortimer said:
Slenderman
Absolutely should happen at some point, regardless of whether they choose the game or Marble Hornets or their own original variant for licencing.
He's easily one of the highest profile horrors we don't have.
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@zonkednb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075298#Comment_4075298
I get it. It felt a little out of left field for someone familiar with Springtrap and the idea behind him but not with fandom content.
But it feels sooo good to use, I'm tainted by it.I honestly would be at peace with it if there was option to not use it. I get the devs realizing that the axe was a common suggestion and aligned well with a simple ranged playstyle much of the killer base could get behind, it's an easy way to ensure that Springtrap fits in the standard gameplay loop and let the devs focus on making his aesthetic work.
I just also wish they actually capitalized on the non axe wanting audience and threw us more of a bone than "you become 115% and can use a knife" since it's nowhere near ideal to play a killer without making use of their primary power. Fazcoin is kinda close because you can throw the axe into a corner and stealth, but once you get in chase it then immediately becomes advantageous to reclaim it at most loops.
There is a way to give everyone what they want, but the devs decided not to go that route despite getting quite close. It's frustrating.
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Springtrap having the axe. I've said this plenty, but I just genuinely cannot get over his gameplay revolving entirely around something that is just patently not connected to FNAF beyond fandom callbacks. If they wanted to, they could've given him separate M1 animations and allowed players to choose between the axe and knife, lending a unique aspect to his inclusion and still getting to base his power entirely on FNaF.
Even accepting that it is the primary aspect of his his power, why is there no addon that disables it and buffs the secondary aspect of his kit? Such an easy W.
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Still can't believe the guy known for walking faster than you can run has a 12 meter dash.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074613#Comment_4074613
Another change that isnt good because it destroyes the part of killers that arent even that good and if they are its not because of stealth like mayers.
The tab is already confirmed to be changing to hide who the killer is until first chase or injury. Sucks for now, but at least we have a fix coming.
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Bit of a longshot, but I'd love it if Xeno got a headpiece not connected to any outfit that burns a 6 into its head.
I played AvP 2010 a ton growing up, so this absolute gamer of a drone is still my favorite Xenomorph to this very day.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074110#Comment_4074110
Imagine the queue times if they isolated a killer to solos only, with around half of all survs in at least a duo SWF.
Exactly. Especially during split queues like Modifiers or 2v8? Just doesn't seem feasible for DBD. Legion's current power is honestly solidly thematic for the group of 4 as parallels to survivor behavior, with their ability to vault pallets and windows matching this idea.
For what it is, it works.
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@Alther_Primus said:
Honestly just slap Tutorial Trapper's AI in when the Killer Abandons, or even make it a special Basement Door that the Killer can leave through while leaving the Survivors alone in the trial. It really shouldn't even be an issue at this point to do one of those things to let Killer players just queue up again, instead of forcing them to feed Survivor egos.
I like the Basement Door idea a lot just as a theming thing. Adds a bit more to the trials and the atmosphere.
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I'm torn on this because I do love the idea of a straight up disguise mimic killer, but like everybody says comms or HUD awareness kills the viability of the playstyle entirely.
The only solution I can think of is to make this killer straight up not connect to any lobby with SwF involved, but that really isn't a great fix.
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Man, this is weird but kinda cool. I've never seen the forums like this outside the occasional server or phone bug.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073962#Comment_4073962
Must be a very uneventful Monday for you lol likewise!
Except for all the times you did.
When?
Again I must reiterate: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Very uneventful Monday trust me, I'm glad for the break! At least we didn't waste our Sunday's on this, huh?
When?
Scroll up
Again I must reiterate
Your meaning escapes me, could you repeat that?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073958#Comment_4073958
You might even, repeat yourself? Funny how easy it was for you to claim “you're wrong” with no reasoning, but and then pivot to repeating this like it adds anything.
Please see previous comments.
Umm, I never said anything to the contrary? I was using hyperbole and actually trying to act like you :3 (he’s onto me fellas)
5 week span, the hotfix that nerfed her hit live on October 7th. You are already double off the mark
Receipts, they're the darndest aren't they?
“Let's generously assume she went down to 2%” “umm noooo actually that data is skewed”
Didn't you know standard derivation cancels out the nightlight skew? Duh. Rules for thee, not for me.
Translation: "I can't explain Standard Derivation at all because I was just using buzzwords."
Definition of irony.
The skew isn't 50/50? Clearly the data is 100% accurate! This is actually the worst logic yet lol
Tell me you willfully misinterpreted the actual exaggerated data portion of my message without telling me.
oh so she did have a higher pickrate, just now it's unmeasurably small?
Welcome to the conversation, nobody has argued otherwise.
“Umm actually your stats don't exist and when they do they're too small to notice” how many of these kinds of stats are we going to talk about?
Extremely bad faith.
😆
Lmao if Deathslinger misses he can also reload and shoot at you again in less than 10 secs, is that also literally imperceptible to the data?
Holy strawman Batman!
Considering you ignored my entire proof about the data, that being being 85% of it is gathered post nerf and the kill rate is still 67.1%, I take it you have no genuine rebuttal and have conceded your point on the topic.
Please see previous comments.
Don't understand, could you repeat?
Definition of irony.
That...was the point yeah.
Extremely bad faith. 😆
Definition of irony.
Welcome to the conversation, nobody has argued otherwise.
Except for all the times you did.
Considering you ignored my entire proof about the data, that being being 85% of it is gathered post nerf and the kill rate is still 67.1%, I take it you have no genuine rebuttal and have conceded your point on the topic.
Wrong. (I gave up after you admitted started making up bits)
Anything about your completely invalid use of anecdotal evidence, or are you still clinging to that too?
Guess not.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073943#Comment_4073943
This is like the 5th time you said “I’m not gonna repeat myself.” Funniest thing is that this is the first time you shouldn't have felt the need to since you actually tried interpreting the data instead of just claiming it says what you want.
Please see previous "I'm not going to repeat myself" posts for the same message.
5 week span, the hotfix that nerfed her hit live on October 7th. You are already double off the mark, as well as assuming her at a 5% pickrate even though launch killers are usually higher.
She went live September 24th… that's two weeks between release and nerf. Thanks for playing! Better luck next time!
Nightlight puts it at 1.44%
The vast majority of people that genuinely use nightlight are nurse, blight, ghoul, and spirit players; and that's not even mentioning the fact that less than 1% of the entire playerbase uploads data to it. If you want to talk about skewed data, look no further than your own example lol.
Also
assuming her at a 5% pickrate even though launch killers are usually higher.
Casually ignoring:
Even if we were to assume Krasue's pick rate was 20% FOR THE ENTIRE DURATION OF 2 WEEKS, this is still 30 data points shy of being 50/50 for pre-nerf and post-nerf data.
And let's not pretend that pick rates for new killers, especially original chapter killers who don't have the license hype, don't fall of within 2 days of the killer releasing anyway.
Leeched removal on hook was very very minor? Extremely bad faith.
Considering she can turn back into human form, use the auto-locking regurgitate, and then transform back to head form in less than 10 seconds, yes this is her strongest nerf but it is still very weak. "Bad Faith" lol.
Please see previous "I'm not going to repeat myself" posts for the same message.
You might even, repeat yourself? Funny how easy it was for you to claim “you're wrong” with no reasoning, but and then pivot to repeating this like it adds anything.
She went live September 24th… that's two weeks between release and nerf. Thanks for playing!
Umm, I never said anything to the contrary? I was using hyperbole and actually trying to act like you :3 (he’s onto me fellas)
The vast majority of people that genuinely use nightlight are
“Let's generously assume she went down to 2%” “umm noooo actually that data is skewed”
Didn't you know standard derivation cancels out the nightlight skew? Duh. Rules for thee, not for me.
Even if we were to assume Krasue's pick rate was 20% FOR THE ENTIRE DURATION OF 2 WEEKS, this is still 30 data points shy of being 50/50 for pre-nerf and post-nerf data.
The skew isn't 50/50? Clearly the data is 100% accurate! This is actually the worst logic yet lol
And let's not pretend that pick rates for new killers, especially original chapter killers who don't have the license hype, don't fall of within 2 days of the killer releasing anyway.
oh so she did have a higher pickrate, just now it's unmeasurably small?
“Umm actually your stats don't exist and when they do they're too small to notice” how many of these kinds of stats are we going to talk about?
Considering she can turn back into human form, use the auto-locking regurgitate, and then transform back to head form in less than 10 seconds, yes this is her strongest nerf but it is still very weak.
Lmao if Deathslinger misses he can also reload and shoot at you again in less than 10 secs, is that also literally imperceptible to the data?
Anything about your completely invalid use of anecdotal evidence, or are you still clinging to that too?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073930#Comment_4073930
Rules for me but not for thee? Starting to feel like you're projecting.
I am not going to repeat things I've already explained. If you would like the explanations, read my previous posts again.
And if her current pickrate is 2.3% (your average), this would almost double the potential metrics during her launch window given she was more popular then, but let me guess it still somehow evens out because of the magic of the unexplained Standard Derivation?
Let's say there were 1000 matches total played of killer in that 2 week span. Let's also assume Krasue's pick rate was 5% during this time frame. She would be the 4th most popular character. The reason I chose 5% is because not everyone has access to the killer and not everybody wants to play the killer. That means Krasue had 50 games played aka 50 data points for kill rate. Let's now assume that her pick rate took a nose dive and dropped to 2.3% which is the ideal average. Assuming 1000 matches every 2 weeks for the next 5 months means that there were 10,000 matches played to follow our example. Using basic algebra, we can conclude that for this example, 230 additional data points were collected for kill rate. This means that over the course of these 10 weeks, there was a 460% increase in data for post nerf Krasue data over pre nerf data. Even if we were to assume Krasue's pick rate was 20% FOR THE ENTIRE DURATION OF 2 WEEKS, this is still 30 data points shy of being 50/50 for pre-nerf and post-nerf data.
This is what I mean by the averages help cancel out the pre-nerf data outliers to arrive at the aggregate kill rate. The fact that her kill rate is STILL 67.1% when practically 85% of the data points collected are post nerf means that her kill rate is still well above the intended target of 60%. For reference, ghoul is sitting at 65.3% and he is one of the most controversial killers in this game with his kill rate.
No, they're both useless because anecdotal evidence has no place in informed debate, the fact you haven't put that together yet really says a lot dude. The point is that if you want to substantiate a claim, you have to say more than “I saw it” because then you could have an entire horde of people showing up to say “Well I didn't." Huh, that sounds kinda familiar...
Yet you are assuming that Krasue is not played anywhere near "popular" because she got very, very minor nerfs because… "vibes?"
Quips aren't evidence, but they are fun! "Seven minutes is what I wish I’d spared to play with you." Ah damn, yours is better.
Perchance."Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." -Oscar Wilde
I am not going to repeat things I've already explained. If you would like the explanations, read my previous posts again.
This is like the 5th time you said “I’m not gonna repeat myself.” Funniest thing is that this is the first time you shouldn't have felt the need to since you actually tried interpreting the data instead of just claiming it says what you want.
Let's say there were 1000 matches total played of killer in that 2 week span.
5 week span, the hotfix that nerfed her hit live on October 7th. You are already double off the mark, as well as assuming her at a 5% pickrate even though launch killers are usually higher.
Let's now assume that her pick rate took a nose dive and dropped to 2.3%
Nightlight puts it at 1.44%
This is what I mean by the averages help cancel out the pre-nerf data outliers to arrive at the aggregate kill rate
How perfectly clean and easy for you after assuming all the key variables involved. Thought you were just using the stats given to you?
Yet you are assuming that Krasue is not played anywhere near "popular" because she got very, very minor nerfs because… "vibes?”
No. In modern DBD every killer falls off fast because there are now over 40 of them and they all lose considerable interest after not being the hot thing anymore or meta. Bad faith yet again.
very, very minor nerfs
Leeched removal on hook was very very minor? Extremely bad faith.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." -Oscar Wilde
“Nah actually I never said that and when I did it's because I was pretending to be you."
What was all that about being genuine for the sake of your argument?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073899#Comment_4073899
It's the language I've been telling you is wholly made up and in your own head this whole time, pretending like you've been forced into responding that way when you chose to make those false claims is one way to avoid taking accountability for false claims
Wrong.
You just admitted to changing it for the sake of hyperbole.
Wrong again.
*4 weeks and it's the time when her pickrate would be highest, something else you quite literally have not touched on beyond "I see her 1/5 games"
The only information we have on her high MMR pickrate is first-hand accounts, since she is not in the top 5 that was posted in the stat reveals. Keep in mind that springtrap (the 5th most popular killer) is sitting at 4.1% pick rate. For a perfect popularity balance, each killer would have a 2.381% pick rate, as there are 42 killers in the game. The difference between top 5 popular and average popularity is literally 1.72%. So you're telling me that one person's "I've seen 2 Krasue in the past 3 months" (most likely because they play killer 95% of the time) is taken as gospel but my "I see Krasue 1 in every 5 games" is thrown out because you disagree with it? See how disingenuousness will get your argument nowhere? If Krasue's pick rate is anywhere between 2.381% and 4.1%, she has an above average pickrate, enough to get requisite data that would aggregate out the initial 2 weeks where her nerfs were not applied.
"I'm not going to explain myself because I said two words and that's enough." How about you substantiate the claim you make with evidence?
Definitions are not evidence. If you used even 16% of the time you've wasted with this point alone, you'd already have enough of an idea to recognize the erroneous math you keep applying. Alas.
I say, "I was being sarcastic with the Sunday comments, don't feel the need to engage if you don't want to" and this was your takeaway?
What are you talking about?
I just figured I'd try my hand at cherry picking words from your post completely out of the context in which they were written. You seem to be having a fun time doing so! 😀
Wrong.
Wrong again.
All of your posts are "nuh uh,"
Rules for me but not for thee? Starting to feel like you're projecting.
The only information we have on her high MMR pickrate is first-hand accounts, since she is not in the top 5 that was posted in the stat reveals.
And common knowledge that a killer is more popular in their launch period, especially when they are overbuffed.
The difference between top 5 popular and average popularity is literally 1.72%.
And if her current pickrate is 2.3% (your average), this would almost double the potential metrics during her launch window given she was more popular then, but let me guess it still somehow evens out because of the magic of the unexplained Standard Derivation?
one person's "I've seen 2 Krasue in the past 3 months" (most likely because they play killer 95% of the time) is taken as gospel but my "I see Krasue 1 in every 5 games" is thrown out because you disagree with it?
No, they're both useless because anecdotal evidence has no place in informed debate, the fact you haven't put that together yet really says a lot dude. The point is that if you want to substantiate a claim, you have to say more than “I saw it” because then you could have an entire horde of people showing up to say “Well I didn't." Huh, that sounds kinda familiar...
See how disingenuousness will get your argument nowhere?
The statements you take issue with are all literally built off the faultiness of your original claims. You are arguing with your own logic being used against you.
Definitions are not evidence. If you used even 16% of the time you've wasted with this point alone, you'd already have enough of an idea to recognize the erroneous math you keep applying. Alas.
Quips aren't evidence, but they are fun! "Seven minutes is what I wish I’d spared to play with you." Ah damn, yours is better. Perchance.
I just figured I'd try my hand at cherry picking words from your post completely out of the context in which they were written.
See how disingenuousness will get your argument nowhere?
Rules for me, but not for thee.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073877#Comment_4073877
the average will already greatly correct the statistics to essentially counteract the 2 weeks she wasn't nerfed.
When 5/6 of the data is outside that range? Yes that is how data works.
I was also using the hyperbolic approach since that seems to be the only language that you accept. Obviously 2 weeks of data is going to adjust results, but the amount in which it will change is extremely minuscule compared to this "massive" drop of 15-20% that your language is suggesting.
Quite literally changed your stance to be closer to mine by accepting the skew exists :D
My stance has literally not changed lol
Translation: "I can't explain Standard Derivation at all because I was just using buzzwords."
Again, I'm not going to define and explain terms to you when you ostensibly have an internet connection and access to Google.
I thought it was pretty clear from context in this internet scrap that l was being sarcastic
Oh! So you are admitting to playing devil's advocate this entire time and that you actually agree with me? Okay phew, that makes a lot more sense, thanks for clearing that up! I had a hunch, but I'm glad that's what's going on here. 🙋
I was also using the hyperbolic approach since that seems to be the only language that you accept.
It's the language I've been telling you is wholly made up and in your own head this whole time, pretending like you've been forced into responding that way when you chose to make those false claims is one way to avoid taking accountability for false claims
My stance has literally not changed lol
You just admitted to changing it for the sake of hyperbole.
Obviously 2 weeks of data
*4 weeks and it's the time when her pickrate would be highest, something else you quite literally have not touched on beyond "I see her 1/5 games"
but the amount in which it will change is extremely minuscule compared to this "massive" drop of 15-20% that your language is suggesting.
Over 17% of your data is corrupted, a number that's supposed be around 60% becoming 67.1% isn't mind shattering. Your bad faith only continues.
Again, I'm not going to define and explain terms to you when you ostensibly have an internet connection and access to Google.
"I'm not going to explain myself because I said two words and that's enough." How about you substantiate the claim you make with evidence?
And finally,
Oh! So you are admitting to playing devil's advocate this entire time and that you actually agree with me?
I say, "I was being sarcastic with the Sunday comments, don't feel the need to engage if you don't want to" and this was your takeaway?
What are you talking about?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073680#Comment_4073680
Also, I never said they had 0 effect,the 67.1% kill rate is her current rate after nerf.Here's you saying two different things.
These are not contradictory statements. 67.1% kill rate is her aggregate kill rate with the entire dataset from September 2025 through February 2026. This has likely decreased since her release because of her small nerfs and number adjustments, but it has ended at 67.1%, which is through February 2026. This idea that they are contradictory statements was the first clue in understanding that your knowledge on data and statistics is incomplete.
"Erroneously applying math" is funny when you still haven't elaborated at all on how Standard Derivation cancels an entire sixth of your data set being skewed, much less accounted for it within your claim.
You insult my numbers, but you quite literally haven't done any math beyond name concepts. You haven't even provided a basis beyond "the devs gave stats to me" whilst ignoring that the devs said "this includes her statistics from September" which colors the results.
You've got completely circular logic.
It is not my job to explain what standard deviations or variance are to you, but these are the concepts that are causing your erroneous reasoning when talking about the current kill rate.
our experience is shared my friend :3
Yeah, let's not do this saccharine kindness routine. I'm just here to discuss the topic at hand.
the average will already greatly correct the statistics to essentially counteract the 2 weeks she wasn't nerfed.
According to you? No difference, not one. That's how data works?
When 5/6 of the data is outside that range? Yes that is how data works.
You are currently contradicting yourself again, as before you claimed explicitly that there was no visible change at all and the exact killrate was accurate. Quite literally changed your stance to be closer to mine by accepting the skew exists :D
It is not my job to explain what standard deviations or variance are to you, but these are the concepts that are causing your erroneous reasoning when talking about the current kill rate.
Translation: "I can't explain Standard Derivation at all because I was just using buzzwords."
Yeah, let's not do this saccharine kindness routine. I'm just here to discuss the topic at hand
Look man, we're on the second page of this argument. I thought it was pretty clear from context in this internet scrap that l was being sarcastic. If you didn't or don't want to participate, please don't feel compelled to respond about how good or bad your Sunday is. That said...
more than I want to waste my time addressing on a Sunday afternoon.
How's your Monday?
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MY EYEES
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073676#Comment_4073676
What inconsistent claims have I made? I am using the data the devs have given me. There is nothing to flesh out because the data is right there for us to use.
All of your posts are "nuh uh," and when I correctly call you out for erroneously applying math, you double down.
I'm having a great Sunday, I just hope more people would take data analysis more seriously.
What inconsistent claims have I made?
Bruh.
Also, I never said they had 0 effect,
the 67.1% kill rate is her current rate after nerf.
Here's you saying two different things.
you outwardly claiming you didn't say something you explicitly did?
Still absolutely nothing about how you claimed one moment you never said Krasue's killrate then was the same as current, despite having clearly done so earlier and having it pointed out to you.
Here's the part of both posts where it was pointed out to you and you still ignored it up until now.
All of your posts are "nuh uh," and when I correctly call you out for erroneously applying math, you double down.
"Erroneously applying math" is funny when you still haven't elaborated at all on how Standard Derivation cancels an entire sixth of your data set being skewed, much less accounted for it within your claim.
You insult my numbers, but you quite literally haven't done any math beyond name concepts. You haven't even provided a basis beyond "the devs gave stats to me" whilst ignoring that the devs said "this includes her statistics from September" which colors the results.
You've got completely circular logic.
I'm having a great Sunday, I just hope more people would take data analysis more seriously.
On this account our experience is shared my friend :3
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073667#Comment_4073667
Your whole reply is riddled with objective incorrect analysis, more than I want to waste my time addressing on a Sunday afternoon. Again, you are intentionally misinterpreting my messages.
Again, please have an understanding of standard deviations and variance before trying to talk statistics, thank you for your cooperation.
Nah, you made inconsistent claims with refusal to elaborate and currently hide beyond math concepts you don't intend to flesh out because you can't explain your way around an entire sixth of your data being skewed.
You spent half your posts claiming I was wrong with no reasoning, and now that you've talked yourself into a corner by claiming her performance is affected by changes after saying it was the exact opposite case earlier, you still even now won't mention it after being pressed openly on it.
Enjoy your Sunday afternoon man, I'm getting a kick out of mine.
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I feel like she just lacks spice as a killer. She looks and sounds great, but just feels so unsatisfying to play (despite having sunk a fair amount of time in).
I don't really like infecting before getting to injure, and getting hits in head form doesn't have the same oomph as some of the other cast members for me (ST Vecna M1 is the same way).
Part of me wishes she wasn't so rare, but a lot of the original killers released during modern DBD's lifespan strike me as filler additions so it's hard to be passionate about it. The devs tried something new, this is someone's dream OC, it didn't quite catch on.
At least she isn't full of bugs.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073662#Comment_4073662
Changing the collision number from 0.35 to 0.32 is literally an imperceptible nerf. Changing her projectile cooldown from 1 second to 1.3 seconds means nothing when it has auto-lock and is only .3 seconds longer. Increasing her regurgitate cancel from 0.1 second to 1.3 seconds means absolutely nothing when nobody was doing that anyway. Changing her form swap time from 1 second to 1.2 seconds means absolutely nothing when she literally flies around the map in head form, losing practically 0 distance in the transition. The only two changes that genuinely mattered was the extra .1 seconds on windup because that actually makes or breaks a vault over a pallet or window, and most importantly removing the corruption on hook.
You got any response to the 16% being objective reality or you outwardly claiming you didn't say something you explicitly did?
Yes, I agree that 1 divided by 6 times 100 is 16.6%, very good! Glad we're on the same page there! I would; however, recommend trying to understand what standard deviation and variance are before claiming that 16% is "objective reality," as you are erroneously claiming.
Changing the collision number from 0.35 to 0.32 is literally an imperceptible nerf.
It isn't, it affected Krasue's ability to slide lunge around loops a sizable amount, especially around small objects. Collision numbers are already small given the default is less than 4 tenths. You again seem to misunderstand math and its relationship to DBD.
Changing her projectile cooldown from 1 second to 1.3 seconds means nothing when it has auto-lock and is only .3 seconds longer.
Except when that recovery distance matters, usually around windows when a Krasue can't bounce off the environment.
Increasing her regurgitate cancel from 0.1 second to 1.3 seconds means absolutely nothing when nobody was doing that anyway.
Except instances where the survivor disappears from sight and there's nothing to bounce off of, made more common an occurrence by the prior change.
Changing her form swap time from 1 second to 1.2 seconds means absolutely nothing when she literally flies around the map in head form, losing practically 0 distance in the transition.
What does her having a dash ability have anything to do with this?? The nerf was useful to body block Krasue and make her lose more distance when being forced to swap, which the cool down on regurgitate nerf adds up with. Have you ever done an endgame save against Krasue???
The only two changes that genuinely mattered was the extra .1 seconds on windup because that actually makes or breaks a vault over a pallet or window, and most importantly removing the corruption on hook.
And yet despite receiving these two sizable nerfs, you say her killrate hasn't changed meaningfully.
It's strange. Despite seeing Krasue 1/5 matches, you don't really seem to understand how these changes actually affected facing and playing as Krasue.
I would; however, recommend trying to understand what standard deviation and variance are before claiming that 16% is "objective reality," as you are erroneously claiming.
Go up to anybody conducting a field test in study and tell them 16% of their dataset was skewed, see how comfortable they are publishing it. Invoking Standard Derivation without mentioning at all how it disputes this point is again not giving any logic at for your reasoning, yet hoping you can just say "you're wrong!" and accept it as reality.
Still absolutely nothing about how you claimed one moment you never said Krasue's killrate then was the same as current, despite having clearly done so earlier and having it pointed out to you.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073658#Comment_4073658
Adjusting numbers is not changing her kit. Changing her kit means reworking her power. Good to know that you were not a participant when they sent out the survey defining all of those terms…
Lmao adjusting numbers is a nerf and 6 of them isn't small, idk why you think "changing her kit" means I was claiming she was reworked.
You got any response to the 16% being objective reality or you outwardly claiming you didn't say something you explicitly did?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073630#Comment_4073630
Your math is incorrect, sorry. Also, I never said they had 0 effect, but you claiming that nobody has played Krasue since the nerf to make 67.1% so horrendously out of date is just simply wrong, and we have the stats to prove it.
Apparently you can change literally her entire kit and nothing happens?
Apparently tweaking dash numbers and removing infection on hook is "changing literally her entire kit." Please try to have a modicum of intellectual honesty with this discussion, otherwise I'm not going to waste my time replying to you any longer.
Your Math is incorrect, sorry.
1/6th is 16.66% which is objective truth. You cannot dance your way around this because you don't want to accept variance in your data.
Also, I never said they had 0 effect
the 67.1% kill rate is her current rate after nerf.
You did.
you claiming that nobody has played Krasue since the nerf to make 67.1% so horrendously out of date is just simply wrong,
Krasue went from presumably being one of the highest pickrate killers during her launch window (every killer is) to 11th according to unofficial sources, plus all the anecdotal accounts you call lies in favor your own anecdotal account. You not wanting to accept she isn't as popular as she was is pure cope.
Apparently tweaking dash numbers and removing infection on hook is "changing literally her entire kit."
No, changing her entire kit is changing her entire kit, but good job pretending 6 changes were 2. The bad faith continues.
Any more insults? Cause that's all you got aside from "your math is wrong" with no logic or rebuttal.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073535#Comment_4073535
You are making numbers up based on how you feel on the data. I am using the data the devs provided me. You are doing what's called "interrogating the data" to twist it to fit your narrative.
You don't know how math works and think if you say the data is still accurate it changes how math works.
Krasue had a different (bigger) killrate before she got four big nerfs, that is objectively how data works even under your "they average out" logic which means guess what? Krasue currently has a killrate under 67.1% with your own evidence.
"But 1/6th doesn't skew" it skews by 16.66%, that's how objectively math works, you can't dispute this. We are measuring the difference between a number supposed to be 60% that is 67.1%, which you better believe makes 16% mathematically significant.
But let me guess, her pickrate being probably triple what it currently is and her killrate being inflated by the buffs were wholy inconsequential right? According to you, they genuinely had 0 visible effect on her performance?
So what nerf would you even want?? Apparently you can change literally her entire kit and nothing happens? How does that even work?
Answer: That's not how DbD works. You are misreading data.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073524#Comment_4073524
When 5/6 of the data is outside that range? Yes that is how data works.
So more than 5/6 of the data if you stop ignoring her pickrate dropping? You started at 100% accuracy, you just admitted at least 17% is off, more when you actually consider the other factors involved. That's how data works.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073510#Comment_4073510
You can say it skews it, but the average will already greatly correct the statistics to essentially counteract the 2 weeks she wasn't nerfed. That's how data works.
A literal sixth of the statistic and the time when her pickrate would be largest. According to you? No difference, not one. That's how data works?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073495#Comment_4073495
I am simply arguing based on the statistics the devs provide me. 🤷♀️
And ignoring the entire month that skews it. Anything for your bias though, right?
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@cogsturning said:
The matches I enjoy the most are the ones where everyone is alive but on death hook with around 1 gen left. At that stage, everything has been pretty even and anything could still happen. These are tragically uncommon though.
Definitely. There's no greater thrill in DBD than when you've got the whole team on the ropes but know they could slip through your fingers any second. It's the most addicting part of the game tbh
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073484#Comment_4073484
The data is literally from September to February which is way after her nerf. Blatantly lying about the data is not helping your point.
This is such an intensely bad faith argument. You can't explain why the Killrates aren't affected by Krasue being busted for the time large portions of people were actually playing her, so you've just resorted to insisting the data is 100% accurate in spite of that.
Go back to the post on the forums where Krasue's last statistics were posted, you'll find discussions even then saying her pickrate fell off.
Honestly, not even gonna bother, it's clear you just wanted to be told you were right. Have fun waiting for the nerf ig
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073461#Comment_4073461
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073467#Comment_4073467
So unless the devs provide statistics for Krasue from 2026 alone, the 67.1% kill rate is her current rate after nerf. Your incorrect assumptions that everyone just dropped the killer is not only disproven by pick rates, but by many players' personal experience as well. There is no sense trying to downplay the data provided to us when this is the only data we have to go off of. If the data is incorrect, don't publish the data. It's really that simple.
"So actually the data represents her killrate after the nerf." No it doesn't, you're making that up. (Objectively true)
"I see Krasue 1/5 games and she's op." I see her rarely and she's not. (Subjective opinion) See how far anecdotal evidence gets you?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073444#Comment_4073444
If the kill rates did not reflect the current killer's power, then what would be the point of posting them? It's a bit irresponsible to simply ignore the data in front of you because it doesn’t fit your narrative...
Like I said, I play against a Krasue about every 5th game. I'm not sure how frequent she's played at your MMR level, but she is not "unpopular" by any stretch of the imagination. I never said that she was "popular" just that she's not "unpopular." It's not one or the other, which is where you are mistaken in your judgement.
Twins is genuinely a very strong killer, people just don't care to learn the killer because bhvr jingled the shiny keys of ghoul and blight in front of killer mains. Also the killer is uglier than sin, and this community is obsessed with good looking cosmetics, which twins is the absolute antithesis of.
Like I said before, I'm not sure why you'd hold on to this idea that the popularity of a killer matters when it comes to balance. Since you intentionally ignored my comment about nurse, I'm going to assume that you do understand that popularity does not matter, but you are using it as a way to stifle discussion on a killer nerf. I know the only thing killer players hate more than survivors is survivors discussing killer nerfs, but sometimes a nerf is genuinely warranted based on kill rates, stats, etc, even for killers that aren't the top 5 most picked, aka "popular" according to you.
Popularity of Krasue matters because it skewed the killrate during her launch that you use as reasoning for her being currently overturned. It's important because it affects your data dude.
It's a bit irresponsible to simply ignore the data in front of you because it doesn’t fit your narrative...
Using metrics you know to be inaccurate is what I consider to be irresponsible. And I have yet to see a counterargument for how Krasue being overpowered during the duration when most people played her isn't a factor in her having a 67% killrate during the time those metrics were tracked.
The only attempt I saw at one was "3 months is bigger than 2 weeks" and yeah man, that's how time works. That doesn't mean those two weeks didn't seep into your data.
I ignored your Nurse comment and the whole balance =/= popularity thing because tbh that's fully you arguing with yourself about wider issues and acting like I said things I haven't.
I am telling you that Krasue doesn't currently have a 67% killrate because the first two weeks of her launch window had her see much more usage, where she was also extremely overturned. This skewed her killrate and makes you using it as evidence for why she needs a nerf illogical, because she already got that nerf.
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My idea is to swap Ghoul's lockon bite ability to something he can't do on healthy survivors, but can use on injured ones.
I.e. He needs to jump around and slide cancel power with two leaps, and after earning the first hit, he can latch onto survivors and power himself up to three leaps to get downs the way he already does.
I do like a lot of Ghoul's power, I just hate that the game gives him a free injury and then a solid mobility/chase tool as well. He really only needs the latter.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073436#Comment_4073436
So you genuinely think that the pick rates from 2 weeks prior to nerfs wouldn't be counteracted by almost 3 months of data post nerf? lol
Yes. A killer is most popular in their launch window, especially when released in such an overturned state as launch Krasue was.
In a game now with over 40 killers, there's much less incentive to go "I like this one" and stick with the character, especially if they don't hail from a licence someone is attached to and get nerfs not long after release, on top of already having a power most people found generic on release.
Krasue falling off after launch skews the killrates and makes them an already more unreliable metric than they would be regardless.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073435#Comment_4073435
Where is this statistic that she's unpopular? Is that your opinion on community sentiment, or is anyone not in the top 5 most picked automatically "unpopular?"
It's a moot point anyway. Something being unpopular should not prevent it from getting nerfs. Nurse is very unpopular but is the strongest killer in the game. Do you think nurse shouldn't be nerfed?
With prior context in mind, do you have actual evidence of Krasue's popularity, because not only does Nightlight back her unpopularity, but so does the entire community sentiment you currently dismiss out of hand and label as moot.
If we're expected to accept your anecdotal account of Krasue being popular because you see her frequently as the truth, what right do you have to deny other people's firsthand experience?
Bonus Question, Why is it that Twins is the most unpopular killer in the game but still top 03 on killrates? Do I just need to see like three Twins within 4 hours before I get to claim to they're secretly super popular? Cause that's basically the same evidence you have, except Twins killrates are ironically less fudged than Krasue's are because of not having to deal with buffs/nerfs and launch window player count.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073348#Comment_4073348
This fearmongering is exactly what I mentioned in my post. "They aren't popular!!" Says who? I see Krause every 5th game, usually right after 2 blights, a ghoul, and any random killer.
I'm not saying nerf her to being useless. I'm asking for any amount of counterplay in chase if she's going to have an auto locking projectile.
Krasue is a heavily unpopular killer and this is backed up by basically every statistic we have concerning her.
You having anecdotal evidence of seeing her 1/5 games somehow to the level of Blight and Ghoul will not convince anyone of anything, and if anything people will be less likely to take you seriously since what you describe doesn't line up to what they experience.
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@Crowman said:
Ghostface is weak when you compare what his power does compared to others. At the end of the day you have no mobility and no way to deal with pallets/windows. The HUD updates over the years have only made it harder for stealth killers. You are super weak to sprint burst and if survivors pay attention they'll spot/hear you before you get too close.
How effective his power is in the control of survivors.
This 100%. Strong killers are ones that have opportunities available to them regardless whether survivors give it. Ghostface isn't the worst of the low tiers, but he relies much more on capitalizing on the opportunities survivors give him than making opportunities for himself.
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I dislike the effect it has on forum culture and think it should go, but it feels like a lost battle already.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
Capcom not OK'ing unique portraits is definitely bizarre, especially since they look distinctly different from the other "Older License" badges. It's unfortunate but I don't expect much more in terms of prestige rewards, the licensing nightmare is probably way too great.
I think it's cause Capcom is used to selling content like this for a few dollars. The RE games are full of this kind of minor monetization, so it probably rubbed them the wrong way when BHVR asked to give it to players for free, compared to the other ips who probably just went "It's not major content right? Whatever."
It does suck, but I'm glad Capcom is more strict in these areas than stuff like skins or 2v8, though obviously both would be ideal.
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One of the harder killers to P100 with and on Switch as well, nice work!
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@SoGo said:
No.
Perma-undetectable is not a good idea unless it has at least a small downside.
Wraith has to uncloak, Pig has to uncrouch/dash, Myers is slowed down more than most killers. It shouldn't be free.
Ghostface has this listed form of indefinite undetectable, just with the change from physical survivor sightlines to the camera interactable in Springtrap's case. They both also have built in insta down in the grab and stalk mechanic meant to punish unaware survivors who can't find the killer in time.
The main issue with this comparison is cameras have no use for survivors beyond leaving them vunerable, since actually finding Springtrap is difficult due to the placement of various cameras with the map generation, and there's no reason to look for Afton in the first place because he isn't a stealth killer.
The reveal mechanic works for Ghostface cause that's his gameplan and the survivor is rewarded for awareness rather than tying it to an item interaction.
@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4071064#Comment_4071064
The potential issue at play here is that he isn't exactly the kind of killer who needs some significant buffs.
Unless, of course, the point would be to make him a bit more of a stealth killer and bit less of a ranged one.
Very true. At the same time, Springtrap isn't considered an upper echelon killer and Undetectable isn't considered a game breaking mechanic that makes killers jump up tiers in viability.
When these changes were originally announced, Afton had a literal asterisk put on him that separated him from the other killers specifying he was getting a nerf as well as a buff to encourage survivors to use cameras.
We all know how that turned out, but most Animatronic mains were perfectly fine with these changes being a sidegrade if it meant Springtrap's kit got to be more cohesive.
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@MDRSan said:
Wouldn’t that just make him a better stealth killer than any other actual stealth killer?
I don’t usually engage with the camera system not just because the rewards aren’t that good but also because the coverage is so spotty that I’m not getting line of sight on anything anyway so what’s the point? Meanwhile I’d be leaving myself vulnerable while my face is shoved in a camera to a killer that could be behind me as easily as he could be across the map.
The stealth proposed here would be within the survivors control, as they can see the doors from the beginning of the match and would know they need to keep watch for Springtrap, unlike most other stealth killers.
Compared to Ghostface, who only has to play around regular sightlines, Springtrap is vulnerable to being revealed from any camera on the map under this hypothetical.
The camera vision complaint is very valid, but that's reason for more cameras/doors to be put up around the map or the cameras should be given a larger view radius.
Depending on how long it would take for the passive stealth to kick back in (I imagine 40secs-1min), Springtrap would have this playstyles much less available to him compared to other stealth killers like Myers or Wraith, who just have the Undetectable button on demand.
As well, it's less of a deal than a lot of people make it out to be, but Springtrap is big and green. He's a bit harder to be sneaky with than a crouching Pig or Ghostface.
For a variety of reasons, I don't think this concept would make Springtrap the best stealth killer.
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This is something they should definitely add in some form, as well as make an addon that disables the axe but buffs his doors and this hypothetical new mechanic. Easy and popular devs.
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@supersonic853 said:
I just wanted a continous undetectable that was removed or supressed by seeing him on the cams. Thats what I think everyone suspected with him being revealed but they said they didnt want to do that.
Undetectable or a slowly removing terror radius would be great changes to get around this, and I would rather they go down this route than adjusting the way his axe works (though I welcome the time save).
It's ridiculous that a character known for popping out of nowhere and playing cat and mouse with his victims was explicitly designed not to be a stealth killer, especially when stealth killers have long been a fan favorite archetype.
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They really think Springtrap's issue is "survivors are conserving power by not using cameras" instead of "survivors ignore cameras because they're useless"
They put an asterisk and everything, singled him out during the Livestream as getting a nerf as well as a buff, and this is what is was??
Best way to sum up this patch.