Alther_Primus
Alther_Primus
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- Alther_Primus
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Honestly just slap Tutorial Trapper's AI in when the Killer Abandons, or even make it a special Basement Door that the Killer can leave through while leaving the Survivors alone in the trial. It really shouldn't even be an issue at this point to do one of those things to let Killer players just queue up again, instead of forcing them to feed Survivor egos.
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Honestly, allowing Killer to Abandon once a gate is open would be a massive QoL update for Killers since they wouldn't have to trudge their way to both gates or AFK in the corner. I feel like not having to deal with the absolute joke of an endgame 'phase' would help some killers chill out more.
Sadly at this point being a jerk to the killer in the gate is such a core part of the game that I'm pretty sure 80% of Survivors would uninstall overnight if they couldn't BM the guy who chose to spread hooks with a low tier killer instead of tunneling at 5 gens with Blight.
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Tools of Torment: 7/10, I think it was a neat chapter, I kinda dig the vibe of Skull Merchant, the Siblings are neat, and after Skully's rework I don't think there are any glaring flaws. Maybe a couple perks that need buffs.
End Transmission: 4/10, I'm convinced that MFT is the entire reason for this chapter. Hux is a frustrating killer who ends up feeling like a lot of effort for nothing and Gabriel's perks are the only batch worth noting. Toba's not bad I guess but it's far from my favorite map.
Nicolas Cage: 10/10, a surprise that manages to be hilarious and decent at the same time, Dramaturgy has replaced Lithe as my go-to Exhaustion and Plot Twist is both hilarious and surprisingly decent at times.
Alien: 8/10, fun perks on both sides, the tunnels are neat, Nostromo isn't awful, and it's Alien for crying out loud! I do think they played it a bit safe with the power, but it's neat nonetheless and they nailed the aesthetics.
Chucky: 10/10. Honestly a great addition, I don't usually like Dash Killers but even I have to admit that Chucky's a fun time. Only drawback is that him being in the game makes Freddy's state that much worse after hearing all the smack talk lol
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Personally hoping for Buffy but I'd be down for Elvira. I really, REALLY don't want it to be another BHVR Original because I know they'll throw some turbo-meta overtuned garbage on them that'll overstay it's welcome in a week.
I do wonder if we'll get another Killer standalone next year though, there being 2 standalone survivors this year kinda throws off the semi-chapter vibe that paragraphs of the past have had.
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I've never received the newsletters unfortunately. Glad I'm not the only one.
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Even if the Smerchant gutting and skin release weren't synced up in such an unfortunate way, at least that can be summed up by BHVR being mistaken on what Smerchant's update will do. They tried to make her decent at things other than 3-genning, they just failed hard. Unfortunate, but not necessarily shameless.
The real shameless skin here is Doctor, a killer who's chase is practically negated by Made For This and who's secondary power has effectively been given to everyone via Ultimate Weapon. He's been struggling since End Transmission dropped and Xeno chapter actually made it worse, now they're deciding to give him a skin for full price? Why bother giving him anything at all when he's basically just an M1 killer with no power at this point?
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It's simple: Gabriel is obviously still bringing in money. They mentioned they had tweaks for it in mind in the AMA shortly after the launch of End Transmission, and now here we are, several months later, with Made For This being a major issue, and still no sign of change.
It's either greed or ignorance, I can't see another logical answer.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541335#Comment_3541335
I think aside from the few Skull Merchant-Mains, nobody would really care if she gets gutted into being unplayable, given that she is probably the most hated Killer ever released.
On the one hand, kinda fair, on the other hand I honestly think Skully has cool cosmetics and lore that, while laughable, is still entertaining. It'd feel like a waste to just make her F tier.
Then again at this point I'm so pessimistic about the state of the game I probably shouldn't even be commenting 🤣
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3541335#Comment_3541335
Whatever they do, it can hardly be any worse than what we have now.
I'd rather she retain some relevancy as a 3-gen gamer than be condemned to be Trapper tier or worse.
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Time to place your bets, will she be reworked in an interesting way that makes her healthier for the game or will she just get gutted to the point where No Mither looks preferable to playing as her?
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Nah, Chess Merchant is 100% the most fun way to counter MFT and Buckle Up + FTP. If BHVR's going to give Survivors perks to make chase not worth it, we can have a killer who makes gens not worth it either.
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Honestly? I'm expecting a Stealth/Chase hybrid.
That said I kinda want to see BHVR make it a 3-gen zoning killer just to see the outrage 😁
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On top of the aforementioned way that killers fill up multiple categories at once as opposed to Survivors working on categories one at a time, there are a couple of good reasons. For one thing, Killers tend to be far more reliant on addons than Survivors are on items. I mean, until the most recent patch, Sadako was entirely reliant on an Iridescent to have a functional Teleport regardless of Condemn or not. it's also worth mentioning that it's a pretty good incentive to actually play a bit of killer. BP gains have always favored Killer since it's the more overall stressful role.
After all, if you could make the same amount of BP as Survivor, and have even less to spend it on, why would you ever play Killer?
Edit: That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a buff to Objective BP, it's ridiculous how much Gen work you have to do to even get halfway to the 10k cap for Objective
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@nars said:
- I'd like to mention that the dev team is trying to balance the game. All things considered they are doing a decent job if both sides can win consistently. As for broken perk introductions, sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than permission. If something is completely broken on release, theres more attention on it. meaning there are plenty of suggestions and people pointing out its issues for the dev team to take note of. Granted they typically ignore them entirely in favor of gutting the perk as a whole, but in those few examples they do listen to out suggestions it makes a great difference. PR is a perfect example, it was really good and balanced but unfair with tunneling. After an attempted gut, the community fought back and got a super well designed perk.
Problem is that they mentioned they had a nerf planned if MFT turned out to be too much, and it has yet they haven't dropped the hammer on the perk. At best they're ignoring an obvious problem, at worst they're intentionally letting it run rampant to boost sales.
Also I'd argue Pain Res is not particularly well designed as it discourages you from using Scourges, meaning that it's a Standalone Scourge, on top of requiring RNG to be in your favor for them to be usable in the first place, it's like Hexes but kinda worse.
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Yeah, as a Doctor player Made For This pretty much ruined the event for me.
Bonus points because it also screws with Knight and Trickster, so 3 of my favorite killers just get bodied by it for no real reason.
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Honestly I prefer Forged in Fog. Both maps are terrible, both killers are fun to play, the biggest difference is the survivors, and Vittorio clears Gabriel in every category except for bringing overpowered perks.
Whether I prefer this chapter to Tools of Torment is still up in the air tbh
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Oh boy, so we're back in "Object of Obsession is not a terribly effective perk" land. Yay.
I don't really see how a perk that exists solely to make M1 killer worse to play while doing little to nothing to the top tiers is healthy for the game.
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They should 100% stay as event mechanics.
That said, please BHVR, let Knight use the Secondary Power button to set up Orders without having to fight minimum distances, this event showed me just how annoying it is to try to get a Guard to kick a pallet sometimes.
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@Zeon_99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3460497#Comment_3460497
Both are hardly comparable lol
Both are widely hated by the respective opposite side. Funny enough, both also play around with 3% haste a lot, except in MFT's case there's no reliable counterplay to it, Skull Merchant you usually just leave the loop and she's back to 115.
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Nah, if Survivors can have Made For This for anniversary, Skull Merchant is more than fine to stick around.
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I don't think FNAF should have a chapter, but a Paragraph on the other hand, I think Springtrap would be an excellent addition to the cast.
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So here's my spicy take on Servers: They're kinda OK for M1 killers and killers that don't have any nuance to their powers. Sure there are some elements that are hot garbage (getting stuck on windows, seeming uptick in Grab Bugs, janky hits and whiffs etc.)
Killers that need some nuance like say... Ghostface though? They're doing very poorly. So often I'll go to 99 a Survivor, and it'll just finish the stalk anyway, or I'll go to finish stalking a partially stalked survivor but it'll take longer than it should to start stalking, which can make the difference between reaching a safe pallet and getting a down. Green Ping by the way.
Oh, and how could I forget: Movement and Kick actions feel terrible. Movement is jerky and you'll finish the kick animation and still have to wait a second to be able to do anything.
I've never been in the Pro-Dedicated Servers crowd, but I accept it if you want to force DBD into them. These servers though? They feel like they could do with another year in the oven. At least Projectile Killers exist though I guess, so that's an improvement...
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I think it's an alright set of ideas. I think the real issue here is that Clown is so hyper-specialized into Chase, that he suffers for it. This idea brings in a small bit of tracking and stall, even if minuscule it'll help, and the numbers can be tweaked. I still wouldn't mind seeing his self-slow reduced by like, half at least, but overall not bad.
Right now if we were to buff Clown to be a decent killer without adding more to his kit, he'd become actual hell to verse. A killer can't be so hyper-specialized, because that puts them in a place where they're either garbage or too stronk. Are the Jack-in-the-Generators a bit weak? Maybe, but they add another element to his power that can be tweaked and altered, rather than just hoping that you can find the magical balance of a hyper-specialization.
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Nah, this isn't a massive enough reduction in grind for that. It just helps maxing out characters and getting the perks we want on them, which is all we really needed.
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I feel like Surge will live or die based on Synergy. If the Explosion counts as a failed Skillcheck, then Huntress Lullaby will be nasty with it. If it counts as just regressing Generators and getting Overcharge or Pop if it's active? That's the dream baby.
If it has no synergy it'll exist for a week before being removed from anything that's not an Adept Demogorgon IMO.
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@Janick said:
I can confirm and appease your fear by saying that the Demogorgon power is very far away from Freddy 1.0.
Welp, now all I can do is hope Demogorgon has godly perks, 'cause that way my only real hope for it since I'm not a huge ST fan.
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2k should be the average, and for all the complaining on both sides, I do think the game is fairly balanced, or at least as close to balanced as one can get. The biggest issue balance-wise is maps, places like Hadnofunfield, Ormond, Coldwind, and Red Forest suck hardcore for killers, while maps like The Game are generally pretty bad as Survivor. I'm curious about the stats on the new Badham though.
I think the issue with Adrenaline is less to do with the strength, and more to do with the fact that if you've had a rough game it feels like a kick in the Hex: Censorship. It doesn't help that Adrenaline also effectively negates Anti-Healing setups, which in turn doesn't help variety in builds.
In regards to Generators, those are easily the trickiest part and are partially linked to the other issues. If Survivors are efficient (IE only going for fast heals with We'll Make It or Medkits, otherwise focusing Gens for Adrenaline) and have a couple of decent loopers, the Gens will pop like crazy. I know it's possible to apply pressure, but it can be very difficult with a decent chunk of the cast. However, if the Survivors are inefficient (I.E. they spend time Self-Caring, or Plundering), suddenly killer has more time to play the game, which in turn means they're more likely to have the chance to have fun.
Although all of the above I think the biggest reason people take complaint is taunting. You queue up for a game, get run around like crazy and taunted at every opportunity and in the end you end up feeling more like they were the power role, and the numbers role. A bad match as Survivor feels bad, but a bad match as killer can be soul crushing if the Survivors are being jerks about the whole thing. I think that is what's at the center of Survivor OP complaints.
*I still wouldn't mind some nerfs to Adrenaline and for the love of all things on this earth nerf balanced landing, you can take Noed, Billy, and Nurse with you if you want.*
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While I could sit here and argue all day and night about how Legion deserves a ground up rework more than Freddy ever did, I do want to say something in regards to base kit:
If you're not going to rework Legion from the ground up, please at least revert the Frenzy Speed changes. You removed the lethality from the power, no need to slow them down as well. As it currently stands getting 2 chain stabs on Survivors that have more than 2 brain cells between them simply doesn't happen because you run out of gauge long before you reach the second person, and I'll also mention how Frenzy Vaults feel like hot garbage still. Please, at the bare minimum revert the speed nerfs to the supposedly agile teens.
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Ebonies are nice if you need a pickmeup after a harsh losing streak (like, 3 or 4 matches of getting curbed,) or if you encounter a group that earned a Mori. I don't run them super frequently and honestly if Ebonies get touched I imagine a lot more dodging will start occuring.
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Even if they don't give us back the Old Freddy kit, I hope they give us something for having been an OG Freddy main and prestiging him. At least Legion's gameplan is similar to before, meanwhile Nu-Freddy has gone from a Hit and Run Stall King to a worse Clown with a neat Gen TP.
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Honestly, ignoring the (legitimate) criticism I've been seeing about Freddy becoming a hodgepodge of other killers, I think the biggest issue he has is Dream Snares. They are far worse and more situational Clown Bottles that are picky about where you put them. With the various drawbacks to them like the fact that they only work on Sleeping Survivors, they should be much more dangerous. Perhaps build Flask of Bleach's extra Hindered into them?
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Legion. Bubba, Doc, and Pig just need number tweaks and addon passes. Legion got eviscerated to save the game, and are now just waiting to be reworked into a new, proper killer.
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Rest in peace to the Freddy I learned to play, and learned to enjoy. You will be sorely missed.
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I was a Freddy main, but with the rework I think I'm going to go back to having Doc as my main and throwing in more Ghostface and Plague.
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Does Freddy at least get to keep his 24 meter Terror Radius?
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Yeah, this rework honestly feels like it's going to be a buff for the people that want to play every killer exactly the same way and a nerf to people who actually like variety and nuance in their killers, like current Freddy mains.
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Please, can this get more attention from the devs? I think this would be the best of both worlds.
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I mean, Deliverance is a very solid perk when used correctly, as is Dead Hard, so I don't think the "only 2016 perks were good" argument holds much water.
The BP situation is finicky because if Survivors got the same amount of BP on average as killer, what reason would I have to not just play Survivor and get BP faster on average? Especially since Survivors don't need to spend BP on things that are 100% guaranteed to go away after a game like Killers with their Addons.
I'll give you the volume issues.
You may have a point in 4 survivors for 1 killer, but if the scales tip too far to Survivor, things can easily get out of hand the opposite way. Even if Survivors remain the power role for the sake of keeping up numbers, there needs to be a balance so that Killers don't just give up and become Survivor mains, like what happened to me after Mettle of Man initially came out.
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I mean, did they go a little overboard on the Mettle nerf? Yeah, but I imagine they're taking that back to the drawing board for a proper rework since it was pretty much a game winner from the menu. I can't think of anything else that really fits in with what you're saying though, the DS change is rather nice and I actually run it now.
Also, in regards to the Bad Perks, please define. Perks like Iron Will and Bond are fantastic, I've seen Unbreakable change games, Stake Out's a pretty decent perk, the list goes on. It seems like if what you're saying is true, then people are sleeping on a lot of perks just because they don't actively punish the killer for playing the game?
I've been enjoying Survivor more than ever with some of these off-meta perks.
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Freddy (Before Rework): Fun to use, addictive mindgames, amusing ambushes, and a solid stall. Shame this is disappearing soon, and frankly I'm not terribly excited for what they've shown so far on the rework.
Doctor: My OG main, I love Doc's versatility and perk diversity along with how amusing it can be to just zap people. The laughing is an extra bonus, as are the amazing array of cosmetics.
Pig: Another stall killer, I wonder if that says something about me lol. In all seriousness, I enjoy her Ambush Mindgames, lurking around in crouch, and yes, the Reverse Bear Trap management. The adorable squeak when she gets stunned is nice too.
Ghostface: Even if I'm hot trash at stealth, I enjoy being a sneaky boi, and honestly something about Ghostface is just extremely fun to me.
Spirit: It's simple: I'm a sucker for the J-horror aesthetic. The fact that she's got some decent mobility and fun mindgame potential don't hurt either.
Honestly I'm debating adding Clown, Plague, Trapper, and Legion to my list of killers that I play, but they're not there yet.
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Honestly I would love to see the Tall Man added to DBD, and I would be an instant main. I always thought his power would be to send out the Sentinel Sphere which would be a fast projectile with complete control, but could be avoided by crouching. He could set it up in a place, switch back to controlling himself, and call it back to make some devious pincer attacks at loops.
Reggie would also make an amazing Survivor tbh, especially if we got his Ice Cream Man outfit.
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@AetherBytes said:
A good idea would be to allow him to equip 2 different powers, the old power, and the rework. Those who prefer old freddy can still play him, those who want the new freddy can play him.
That would be amazing, but it'd probably make handling add-ons a Nightmare (pun intended). I wish this was a viable solution though.
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I completely agree. Current Freddy is a ton of fun, and is currently the only reason to ever use Furtive Chase. This rework is going to be a slap in the face of people that liked his playstyle, and is going to solidify Furtive Chase being about as meta and gamebreaking as the likes of Mad Grit and Overwhelming Presence.
@brokedownpalace said:
His aura reading is cheesey and a lazy power that never should have made it into the game to begin with. They're going to give him mobility and ways to slow down survivors and end chases sooner. That's a good trade IMO.
I get that you're excited for the rework, but let's not pretend that he's going to have anything besides the telegraphed Generator Teleport. If you get to use your traps it's because you're either versing potatoes that think that Killers are OP because they can click M1, or you've chased the person for so long the game's giving you a pity power. Unless they do some major reworking to the rework, that 60 second sleep timer is already getting the shovel to dig the rework's grave, and Entity have mercy if his slow is as meh as Clown's at base.
On the note of the Aura Reading, it gives Freddy a ton of fun setups and ways to 20,000 IQ Survivors + you have to be asleep for it. I have less issues with Freddy's Aura Reading than I do Legion's Killer Instinct. Also, this is pretty much the only reason to actually run Furtive Chase for literally any reason outside of Adept Ghostface or (maybe) some Make Your Choice cheese.
Honestly next Mid-Chapter will actually drop Freddy from my rotation, he's becoming some poor Hag/Clown hybrid rather than retaining his current role as dedicated stall with potent tracking. I guess if I want to actually impact Gen Speeds without relying on Ruin I'll have to run more Impossible Skillchecks Doc until they inevitably remove it for another Le Ebin Top Tier clone like they're doing to Freddy.
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I used to play a lot more, but between MoM and the fact that my computer and the game don't seem to get along very well I've drastically reduced my playtime.
If I can get my computer to not try to melt my room every time I play the game again I'd definitely play it more though.
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I can't help but agree with OP. Between the information we've been given and BHVR's track record, I fully expect Freddy to go from "Bottom tier at a glance, Mid-tier once you learn him" to "Mid-tier at a glance, Bottom tier once you learn him," in a fashion similar to Clown.
From what we know right now, the Freddy Rework is just a worse version of Waterlogged Shoe Hag with a horribly telegraphed Generator teleport. Sleeping may be a passive function now, but there's very little downside to being asleep, no real threat unless he's already on you, and now there's yet another way to exit the dream world. 60 second passive timer before you can use your chase power. Yeah, that's going to be real stronk, move over PTB Ghostface and Bubba, we've got a new champion. I'd unironically rather keep having to put people to sleep manually, but having said sleep make an actual impact.
Gone is his unique playstyle, dead is his ability to actually control his mindgames. RIP the only stall killer that slowed the game down without relying on a limited resource. Sayonara to the most fun tracking killer with his ability to catch you out in deadzones and interrupt your pathing. Welcome to a worse Hag.
And, I do apologize if this comes across as crass, but if y'all didn't want the community to speculate, especially the Freddy mains that enjoy his current playstyle and were bound to scrutinize the rework, perhaps you should have held off on the reveal until things were a bit more finalized and a bit closer to PTB.
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On the one hand, I agree and honestly in spite of my massive salt regarding certain recent reveals, I'm not the kind of person to go after people personally, and I think that the people that go full personal bash are probably hurting their willingness to deal with the community.
On the other hand though, this time due to my massive salt, I'm starting to actually enjoy watching the saltstorms manifest. Honestly, I'm not surprised people are fed up with them though, and when valid concerns get hand waved away with stats I can definitely see why people get the way they do. I think BHVR can rebuild the trust they had with most of the community around 2.0, but it'd be a long, rough road with very little room for error.
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At this point I'm pretty sure that half the reason he's getting reworked is because none of the big name streamers wanted to take the time to learn him, or even figure out that he can't be played as a powerhouse like most other killers.
The other half is a mix of Rank 20s getting destroyed by him (like every other killer, really,) and people getting bored of the Potato Freddies that just use his power to tunnel.
It's a shame really, I enjoyed his stall, his mindgames, and his tracking, while on the other hand I despise trapping play styles. I hear Deathgarden's pretty good, and I could always go for another match of Civilization.
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Honestly after seeing them talk about Freddy on stream, I worry they may be walking a tightrope. It's sounding like Nu-Freddy is going to be more addon reliant than the Doctor, especially with the awful 60 second passive sleep. Action Speed Reducers are going to be useless with that insanely long sleep time, and even then they're pointless with the Wake Up Objects scattered around.
Also, since I got a chance to see the stream now, the fact that you have no way to control your intermittent appearances in the micronaps means that it's basically Spirit's passive phase, rather than a proper tool. Frankly, the only thing that's sounding even remotely threatening about Nu-Freddy is the Gen TP, and that has a ton of warning on it so it's whatever.
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Honestly I just think they should cancel the whole rework and give it to a new killer next chapter. This rework is literally going to remove anything interesting about him in exchange for a Gen TP, since the other parts of his power are gimmicks that you have to manually set up and hope you can chase a sleeping Survivor into.
Aside from the Gen TP, he's a Waterlogged Shoe Hag and a worse Order Addon, who requires 60 seconds to do anything more than M1 McGee. At least current Freddy has a unique playstyle that can be fun to use with juggling Survivors with the stall of sleep, controlled transition mindgames, and Aura Reading.
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Honestly at this point it's a tragedy. He's a solid killer right now, arguably upper-Mid, but with the learning curve of a higher-tier killer, and frankly some poor or non-existent explanations of his power. He's not a flawless killer by any means, but he's the only one that can really have any meaningful stall without it running out in 4 to 5 uses.
Honestly it really feels like, with the rework, they've given up on the idea of killers having any real stall that doesn't have a limited use, which is a shame since it's my favorite play style. (Before anyone says anything, Deep Wounds and Madness 3 are laughably bad stall in comparison to Dream World.)