Archol123
Archol123
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@gilgamer said:
I'm still holding out hope that they remove it one day. Billy's still my favorite killer even after what they did to him but he feels so much worse then before, not just because of his overheat. Everything about his overheat annoys me, the sound, gameplay implications, and all the addons surrounding it, all garbage.
#makebillygreatagain
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
Keep up the monthly reminder buddy, maybe one day they will listen :3
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I am not entirely sure, but I think Hens once mentioned that change, but like I said, not entirely sure...
I think they did just so it would be easier for newer players, which I think is kind of a nice change, you don't need to be frameperfect with your click to hit at the earliest possible moment... Many quality of life changes will also buff a something, but I still think it is a good idea.
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@TMCalypso said:
Hawkins was a great map. It was the one map where blindly gen rushing or insta throwing a pallet was NOT the best thing to do. You had to actually think while playing. If the survivors left the portal room gen and the upstairs gen for last, the killer would not be able to stop the final gen from being completed. Both sides could turn the tables into their favor at any point, it just came down to who was better. Had so much fun playing Hawkins as both survivor and killer.
Blindlessly Gen rushing is never good as most maps can make it rough on you when you accidentally 3 gen yourself... But the worst cases of 3 gens are still on Onis Map, Azarovs resting place, suffocation pit and probably some more are really rough, because it is so easy to 3 gen on those maps... The map was terrible, basically every loop was an easy hit for the killer... there are like a total of 5 pallets that were not complete trash and the other ones were basically a guaranteed hit unless the killer really messed up...
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For the first part... As far as I know you just used to need to have better timing and they made this fast hit easier to not make people struggle as much. I would not mind the pallet stun thing being added again, but then again weapon wipe animations and so on also get canceled by the pallet stun... and you should honestly never try to use pallets against a nurse, but yeah like I said, I' m fine with making stuns + fatigue a thing again, even though I don't believe it will change much.
I mean her hitting you before you can see her would only apply if she blinks on top of you without line of sight...Because otherwise you can try to get to a different place during the time it takes for her to blink. Otherwise aura reading I guess? And with aura reading you either can keep the aura reading perks in mind and react to it once you've made sure she has it or do what people usually do and pre run.
I don't think you can balance this game for different skill levels of players all at the same time without contradicting yourself when it comes to different groups... So i guess the middle ground has to be fine, as we got nothing else ^^
The part about demo is not true, you can absolutely hit people in the vault animation, Demogorgon is basically my most played killer and i usually just wait for them to start the vault animation and then just shred at the window, Demogorgon moves so fast during the shred it will still hit, only if you waited too long it will miss but most of the time it hits. The gen in shack also makes demo struggle a bit more but i think it is mostly possible to still hit the shred, you just need to be a bit more precise. But when you vault from the outside in he struggles, so yes in the end wesker is still better at that point.
My point is more like that at a certain degree of skill it does not matter anymore, because the game is over anyway... When you have a well coordinated group of survivors the gens will be done in 4-6 minutes if 3 of them are constantly on gens (depending on how big the map and the distance between gens is...)... So I don't really think it matters if you loop the killer for 5 or 8 minutes, the game is over anyway as soon as you've reached that point... I mean sure it is still more impressive the longer you loop the killer on a limited amount of ressources, but when we're outside of the 1v1 setting again everything above the time it takes the team to finish all gens is just luxury, that's what I meant.
I just read the 5.5.0 patchnotes and that thing you mentioned is not even in it... The removal of fatigue after pallet stun is but not the quality of life thing where you don't need to press the attack button perfectly to hit right after the blink... But a lot of other bugs considering her...
Like I said before if this is the same thing we're both meaning then it was already possible before to hit immediatly after the blink, it was just waaaaaaay harder to do so...
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I think a cooldown would be finde, maybe not 90 sec more like 60 sec but there just some spots where it wastes far too much time to get to to snuff the totem, but you also can't really let it stay up... The totem up in ironworks or in the badham mainbuilding...
I don't think just because there is a band aid fix to annoying gameplay mechanics via perks is enough to not argue about it...
Sure Medkits also need to get adressed, but that does not change the fact a little downtime on the boon would not be too bad... Unless you are putting up the totem right at the same spot as before or right into the killers face those 60 secs will be over before the killer snuffs it in most cases... I think it only causes issues when you're doing it in that annoying way...
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@TMCalypso said:
Hawkins was a great map. It was the one map where blindly gen rushing or insta throwing a pallet was NOT the best thing to do. You had to actually think while playing. If the survivors left the portal room gen and the upstairs gen for last, the killer would not be able to stop the final gen from being completed. Both sides could turn the tables into their favor at any point, it just came down to who was better. Had so much fun playing Hawkins as both survivor and killer.
There are other maps where trying to just blindly do gens will bring you in trouble: Azarovs resting place, suffocation pit, Onis Map, they are all quite easy to 3 gen... And in indoor maps the issue is just that people will loose orientation and therefore not always be sure which gens were already completed..
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@TMCalypso said:
Hawkins was a great map. It was the one map where blindly gen rushing or insta throwing a pallet was NOT the best thing to do. You had to actually think while playing. If the survivors left the portal room gen and the upstairs gen for last, the killer would not be able to stop the final gen from being completed. Both sides could turn the tables into their favor at any point, it just came down to who was better. Had so much fun playing Hawkins as both survivor and killer.
Blindlessly Gen rushing is never good as most maps can make it rough on you when you accidentally 3 gen yourself... But the worst cases of 3 gens are still on Onis Map, Azarovs resting place, suffocation pit and probably some more are really rough, because it is so easy to 3 gen on those maps... The map was terrible, basically every loop was an easy hit for the killer... there are like a total of 5 pallets that were not complete trash and the other ones were basically a guaranteed hit unless the killer really messed up...
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@SMitchell8 said:
Use the blueprint from sheltered woods and turn it into a different map like a graveyard or church something. Same for rotten fields, could be reworked into a funfair or again, a church with graveyard.
Give it some sort of main building maybe, instead of a giant deadzone tree in the middle XD I like the graveyard idea, but we already have eyrie :/ and the chapel is basically a church already, so both already happened... maybe just more consistent rock loops in the middle? Or even a fence around the big tree to make it like some sight seeing object? Biggest tree in the forest for exampel and just put some windows and pallets around it... Without recreating haddonfield fence problem though...
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I just think about Blight it not like you can do nothing but more like ping pong, whatever you do he can do something about it, so there is still skill involved and what you can do might work, but mostly when the Blight cannot react in time. He can get a hit on most generic tiles.
For the hard to master killers I think there already are quite a lot of them, obviously not all the same hardness of mastery but Pyramid Head, Huntress, Nurse, Billy, Blight, Wesker (maybe), Deathslinger, Artist (if you try hitting crossmap birds otherwhise she is pretty easy).
I don't know about the shack thing for wesker since he is quite similiar to demogorgon in hise power usage I think even the average wesker should be guranteed a hit at shack, unless it has a generator inside. Yeah he cannot really use his powers at rock loops, which is fine I think.
The difference to nurse is Wesker can just M1 you at a tile where he cannot use his power, Nurse must be able to use her power at every tile in the game as it is the only way for her to get hits otherwise you would to just abandon chase as soon as somebody reaches a certain structure (which you might to anyway because it can be to time consuming to chase there (main building in saloon for example).
I cannot imagine that there is only one person that is that good... Even he is the best, which I don't know I would think there are still many players that are good enough in chase so M1 killers won't a down in a reasonable amount of time. It does not have to be 8 minutes for the survivors to win the game, if the other three teammates stay on gens for the entire 4-5 minutes is enough for a 5 gen run... I think it is highly unlikely that there is only 1 really good survivor for the same reason as I think there is not only one unbelievably good killer xy, I think there are some god nurse, god blights and whatever but there are not that many of them to frequently encounter them in matchmaking.
Billys skill ceiling is basically the same, it is about the outcome, but I think that's what you meant anyway. The skill ceiling is only the amount of sill required to master him I think, and that portion is really high about him, but what you get for mastering him is really limited.
Yeah sure, camping and tunneling should get nerfed, I think we can nerf some addons of nurse and blight, but their basekits are mostly fine (except the exposed on nurse).
I'm not sure about the generic stuff, I mean basically m1 killer gameplay is already that kind of thing so the question is how long would it take people to figure out how this new generic things work and then you're just in a circle where you need to come up with a new gameplay mechanic every time to keep some killers viable :/
In the military trained comparison i would not make an exception for nurse as she can still loose in that tournament setting, but when we take away camping in tunneling in that setting we would need to come up with a buff for nurse... Let's say our target is not tunneling and camping but 2 hooking everybody before somebody dies... In a comp setting there would need to be some delay in the flow of the game to make up for it even on nurse, and I have absolutely no idea how to manage that... Longer gen duration? More gens? All seems terrible so... Clueless on that one...
The all around problem is for which group of players are we balancing stuff? Obviously not for comp players, as nurse seems to be fine on that end... If we go for the mediocre players like most people (you and I and probably 60-80% of people) we would still run into problems with better guys... Maps being too safe or unsafe for them, the same for worse players or beginners :/
But to go back to the nurse topic... Do you think Nurse needs more change than nerfing her addons and making it impossible to one shot people with blinks? Because since we're probably not balancing for the god nurses in our mid range setting she can be looped, so that should be all there is to it? Without the exposed which shortens change drastically it should be fairly possible to win against her.
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I hope this map never comes back, because I will refuse to play on it, and just go afk every time when it comes up... There were like 3-4 solid pallets and all other were unsafe, tracking and using your power on many killers was basically impossible as you could not see scratchmarks in the distance or crows and it even had times when you needed to go around the whole room because you didnt know which doors were open, just a terrrible map and another example why indoor maps in general are bad in this game as they remove basic tracking tools a killer has..
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I think even then there are some structures where nurse will struggle for example on 2/3 of the buldings on badham, but yeah she will eventually get you without much you can do.
But then again the same goes for other killers like Deathslinger at some distance he will hit you unless he messes up, if you get the right structures there is much more you can do against him then against a god nurse, I also agree on that.
And if we consider addonless Blight and addonless Nurse on some maps I would even say Blight has it easier, since Nurse mobility without addons really is not that much better than that of a normal 4,6 m/s killer, Blight will have the better cards in reaching the other survivors faster and I would say besides some godpallets that you have to kick he can still play around most tiles with pallets even after they are dropped.
And I completely disagree with the gen defense part, on larger maps when survivors split up and Nurse does not control some gens she will most definetely lose. Especially when it comes to tournaments those guys still go for a 3gen strat basically all the time as far as I know... Somebody even said that generally speaking tournament players will protect their 3 gen with 5 gens left... The Nurse still needs to play the macro game...
About the last segment... I understand that you want every killer to be viable, but then again when a killer like clown really does not take much to master him, why should he be able to keep up with the best survivors in the game? Most killers that are on the lower end just don't require that much mechanical skill to master them, besides the basic m1 killer knowledge, I don't think you can ever make it possible for a basic m1 killer to perform even similiar than those with good antiloop.
Considering that there are 1v1 tournaments where the player who loops the killer for the longest time just wins, I've seen one where a guy looped the hillbilly for like 8 minutes or something, and by all means that billy was not bad... It's just that the tiles and how to play them vs m1 killers have been figured out in a manner where there is really not much to can do to shorten the chase when the other guy knows what he is doing... And I'm honestly fine with easy to master killers having a limit to how good they can perform, I really would not want a legion for example to be as good as huntress or so...I want there to be a certain prize for people who put in the effort and the hours to master a complex killer... Probably half the killers in this game are quite easy to pick up and easy to master without much nuance to it... So let's for example say you take 50-100 hours to know everything there is to know about legion, which is to be honest rather high, I think you can know everything about the killer in 10-20 hours, because there is really not that much... But then compare it to Billy for example who will probably take you like 1000 hours at least to be able to curve most tiles and consitantly play around that. I think there should be a difference in how good they perform because of how much you needed to get good at him...
What I always like to say about that is basically a easy to play killer takes effort to perform good in a match whereas a more complex killer takes effort beforehand in learning him. (Just as a sidenote, I think billy is underperforming for how hard to play he is, but that again is a whole other topic...)
I don't think there is something like genrush, gens are just the objective and when the killer can't pressure the survivors into constantly unhooking and being in chase then 3 people will sit on gens, because what else are they supposed to do? Hyperfokus however especially with stakeout can give great value to even mediocre players... especially when combining it with a toolbox for more skillchecks...
I totally agree on the camping and tunneling stuff, it should be basically impossible to make this work in effective way... Maybe teleport hooked survivors when the killer is too close? Or make the hook timer slow down when the killer is less than 16 m away but then drastically... But that would be a whole different topic where we could come up with ideas....
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3237083#Comment_3237083
Sure you are right. I also think current nurse is perfect the way she is. Just not in pvp game. Good nurse takes away what you can do to win and makes it exclusively how much did she screw up against these survivors (survs can only make it somewhat harder for nurse). This is something cool in pve type of games. In pvp both sides should be able to play the game
I agree to some degree with that, but then again if both sides don't make mistakes who should win? We can get a draw in the match itself with 2 kills possibly, but there is no draw in the chase, which is as I pointed out before the main thing in this game, after 2000 hours I really don't care about winning or loosing, it is all about the chase interaction.
I would even go a step further and say the game wants the killer to win, that is why bloodlust exists, at some point the survivor is supposed to get hit and supposed to go down... I don't think you only win the chase when you didn't go down or run the killer for several gens, I think you win when the killer has to give up chasing you when he recognizes that he is throwing the whole game to get you and even then might not get you at all, and unless you're playing against somebody who has mastered the killer you definitely can delay the chase for so long that it is just not worth it to continue chasing you.
But at this point is it not basically the same with all the high tier killers? Blight and Spirit and so on? If somebody has really mastered the killer you will go down against those guys... And I think this is fair to be honest... I'm just gonna assume you're not a tournament player just like 99% of the players in this game we're average or above average or whatever, would it be fair if a team of average survivors was able to beat a killerplayer that has basically mastered the killer? Shouldn't all the effort be rewarded?
If we have a Nurse with 2000 hours of Nurse I think this guy should basically win almost every match to the point where he will probably play other killers as playing Nurse isn't really fun because the outcome is clear from the beginning. And even this guy will struggle against the 4 man comp swat, which again is fair, the killer has mastered Nurse and those guys have mastered everything there is to know about playing survivor. It will be a struggle on both sides, probably the most fair thing to match up players that are both "the best" in some sense.
To sum this up: Yes, Nurse is gonna get you eventually, but so is basically every killer, the game is build around the idea that the killer is supposed to get the survivors and bloodlust makes it fairly obvious that you're supposed to get the hit after some time. But as long as the Nurseplayer has not mastered Nurse, which most players have not, you are able to loop her. And I do not think it is fair to say that the average player should be able to consistently win against someone who has put that much effort into a killer that he has mastered playing the killer. And when we look against the best players playing in tournaments those guys can win for sure, Nurse is not guaranteed to win the match. And when we look at the recently released stats we can easily see that not every Nurse is good at her, many of them are just learning and will get destroyed by bad or even average survivors.
(Yes I agree those stats have been overused in some sense, but if it was really so that even bad Nurses would have an easy time stomping survivors her killrate would be higher, my guess is just some people underestimate the effort you have to put into nurse to get a decent result (yes I know she is not as hard as Billy or Blight to master, but for a beginner she is just frustrating, because you cannot just play like a normal m1 killer if you constantly mess up your power) and many people just don't go that far or don't play her often enough to the point where those guys will pull down her winrate... And even in the top 5% of mmr where all those starters are not supposed to be but all those streamers with thousands of hours that will push her killrate up, and still she is only at 61% in the top ten, so i would definitely still say: Most nurses can be looped because not many have mastered her.)
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I have over 2000 hours in this game and only twice in this time have I ever thought that the nurse I went against could not be juked. Good nurses are really not that many... Yeah sometimes you get a map without high objects to break line of sight, but that's just the opposite of getting an indoor map...For every Blood lodge were you can't break line of sight at all there is also Lerys and other indoor maps where it is really easy to loose her.
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236809#Comment_3236809
I will respond to you with my previous message : You are an exhausting person.
Yes indeed good sir ^^ And I do not get tired to have long discussions :D And I kind of also offered some changes to her, that at least adress the exposed perks on her ^^
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236769#Comment_3236769
Sure is. Maybe she needs some buffs as well? What about making her also 4.6 killer? /s
She is the most NOT fine killer in the game. I mean. She is ok for people that did not put at least 100hrs into learning her, but she is way too OP otherwise
I mean at least she has something you can do about her unless she has been mastered, I don't think with 100 hrs you would be good enough to never get juked...
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@Lastchild said:
I'm suggesting something to you, rather than opposing every suggestion I make.
Bring your versions of the nurse.
Think, as I did, what it might be, and talk about it.
I had the courage to post ideas, you can do the same.
Do not count on me to do everything for you, you have put me in a state of exhaustion.
That's all you really know how to do.
I mean I kind of already did that so some extent... I said I'm fine if exposed perks don't work on nurses blinks anymore, but then some other perks for example jolt and sloppy butcher would be great if they still worked... I think they are still less annoying than what people would bring if they did not work on nurse.
I think it is fine that nurse is as strong as she as and her power works as it does, I think unless you're playing against a really really good nurse you can loop her by breaking line of sight and taking unique pathing, that is much more than you can do against other killers... The key to playing against nurse is also getting space between yourself and her but you don't do it by simply holding the w key like against Artist or other killers, so i genuinly enjoy playing against her most of the time. I would prefer if more killers offered some sort of unique counterplay that to some degree does not involve the usual stuff as pallets and windows.
We could also rework some of her addons, but since I usually play her without addons I cannot really say much except for maybe make her brown addon that shows the blink destination into an ingame option instead of an addon and change some of those that have barely any impact , I think there was one that makes survivors breath louder after getting hit and another one that basically gives you nurses calling for 60 on one person only I think? So I guess those and some other ones could be changed as most people only run recharge, fatigue or range addons anyway... Tuning down range addons or deleting them would also be fine, like I said I basically play addonless most of the time, so I think that would be alright.
I really don't want to change much about her basekit as it is oftentimes hard enough to just catch up to survivors holding w. If you play addonless and use 1 blink for cathing up you really don't gain that much distance on the survivor.
To bring in some numbers... fatigue on 1 blink takes 2 seconds in which you're slowed down to below 1 m/s , survivors move at 4 m/s and you take 1,5 seconds to blink the max distance of 20 m. So during the time your blink takes survivors gain 6m and during your fatigue they gain an additional 6 m so when you just try to catch up you gain 8m on the survivors... When you run in a straight line.
Let's compare this to a normal m1 killer... He gains 60cm per second on the survivor constantly. When we calculate the charge time for the blink which is 2 seconds at which she moves at basically 3 m/s (rounded) the survivor gains another 2 m so we're only at 6 m now and have recharge time of like 2 secons in which she nurse looses a little bit of distance, but we're gonna neglect that... So for the m1 killer to catch up 6 m on a survivor it takes 10 secons...
Nurse needs to charge her blink 2 seconds, blink 2 seconds and then fatigue 2 seconds... and another 3 seconds to recharge before she can start blinking again
I might have messed up the calculation at some point, so please tell me if I did... But if I am correct she takes 9 seconds for the whole process before she can start trying to reach the survivor again, that is rounded so it is probably even equal to the speed of a normal m1 killer and if not it is basically 1 seconds difference at most so like 10%.
To sum it up when you're going in a straight line she really does not have that much mobility without addons in comparison to a basic m1 killer...
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@Lastchild said:
You make me work hard, you have no mercy... :
- 4 seconds fatigue when using teleportation.
- She can't ignore the pallets
- She can, however, ignore windows.
- When fatigue ends, his speed drops to 4.4 m/s for 5 seconds.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236544#Comment_3236544
Yes I do ^^ But then again balance is a serious topic, and I really like going against nurse as well as playing her, so I don't want her to get the billy or freddy treatment...
- - according to the wiki her base fatique is 2 secons per blink extra is 0,5 added and missed attack is 1 second added... so you basically give more fatigue duration than she already has....
- - I'm not that familiar with coding, but i could imagine that making pallets and windows differently when you blink through could be not that easy... And still are you able to blink through waiste height objects? like the low tiles and azarovs maps?
- - I mean at that point you basically cannot use windows against her but she needs to see you vault it... But you can basically always just predop the pallet... So how is she still not a worse demogorgon xD (If she can't blink through low height objects...)
- I mean you have a terrible long cooldown in comparison to him and the fatigue after a blink makes it so you cannot really use it to catch up... during fatigue you're slowed down to 0,96m/s (according to wiki) which makes the survivor gain roughly 12 m of distance if you blink right on top of them...
So lets say you chase a survivor, he takes a window but is out of line of sight, so you just keep chasing normally until you see him vault it and at that point you already need to pre-charge your blink because you can only blink through the window and not adjust, also you dont have a 2nd blink to get him... so as soon as the nurse charges the blink you just don't vault it and run out of vision ... (my example is basically a jungle gym not the long wall variant but the other one...) I do not think her power would be viable anymore... unless somebody is really in the open, and even then she would be easiert to juke than now as she only has 1 blink and slower blink seed...
My problem is her power does not really shine in any situation with these changes... I would just like you to tell me where her power is really good... Because i basically cannot think of a situation... Let's compare it to demogorgon, again... He can basically hit you at any straight loop or when you attempt to vault a window, he is really good at standard jungle gyms or long straight loops, but struggles at loops with poor line of sight like the yamaoka gyms or rock loops on ormond for example that are rather round and not straight....
Out of the blue i cannot really think of a situation that nurse would excell at even at the window scenario she would probably be worse than demo but still be higher effort to learn the blink...
It would be a nightmare at long distances... imagine the following... you basically move 10m/s during blink... you take 2 seconds to reach the max distance... survivors move at 4 m/s so if you do not perfectly guess where the survivor will be after that 2 seconds and blink there beforehand you can basically not hit him, as he will move 8m while you move the 20m ...There is just so many issues in this...
But still I enjoy the debate and would love to discuss about reasonable changes, but I cannot agree with those, as they would just remove her uniqueness and make her basically an m1 killer.
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@RaSavage42 said:
People complained about the Nurse being able to ignore loops in general... and as soon as one person mentions something to change that other people start complaining (This is why the Nurse hasn't been changed in 5-6 years)
People also complained about Range... and ass soon as someone mentions something about changing that other people start complaining
I do understand that doing this will turn Nurse into an average Killer...
At this point IDK what I'd do anymore... do you think that BHVR does?
It's not about changing Nurse in general, but more about the concrete changes I disagree with ...
My problem with the first idea to change her was that her power will basically loose its uniqueness as it would become something similar to other killers while completely removing the counterplay of loosing line of side, so maybe Nurse wouldn't win as many games but she would be even more unfun to go against... And since I consider the chase and what survivors can do during it the main thing of the game another boring killer with basically no counterplay would be really terrible...
The second idea with removing her lunge would just make her unplayable as you would need many hundreds of hours just to hit your blinks reliably if it is even possible... I think even Nurse players with thousands of hours still rely on the lunge... So that change would just kill her completely..
I do think there are some changes to her that would be good... For example making it impossible to used exposed on her... I however do not like that by making her blink a special attack some perks just don't work on her, and as it is basically the only way you're ever gonna hit people (by using your blinks) those perks just cannot be used on her, which is sad, because I think sloppy butcher and jolt for example are great perks without being brokenly overpowered ...
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236632#Comment_3236632
I mean i don't know how it is to play on console and I might sound stupid and offensive but when we come to a place where it's so hard to play certain killer on console we should start thinking of if we maybe cut pc and consoles from each other so they can make killer work different on console maybe we for the future game devs should think about if there game does work on consoles instead of going for the money
Probably sound rude really don't won't to be rude I just don't know what to do in these debate cause the two are so different from each other
But with crossplay enabled you could go against two versions of the same killer and would not know which one your facing... Balancing every killer twice sounds like way too much effort...
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That would basically make her unplayable... That's not a price we should be willing to play ... I consider myself ok at her with with probably a few hundred games... How much frustration are people willing to take? Do you really think somebody would be willing to put several hundred hours into the game to just start getting hits? That would be way too hard... Many people don't play her already because they are not willing to put the effort into it and are too frustrated.... Mayking her skill floor even higher is not the way...
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236549#Comment_3236549
Good points indeed.
Maybe give her no lunge after blink so she has to more or less hit it like a ranged killer. She already has an audio that indicates the blink so you could run into her so she blinks past you.
Maybe give her an visual indicator like a fog cloud where she blinks to or go with her lore and make a screen overlay of a ghostly white breath indicating the direction where she blinks from your pov
Having no lunge would be quite rough for newer players especially... I mean I've played a few dozen hours of nurse and I still need my lunge to hit most blinks so not having that would be quite the struggle man, I think it is impossible to be so precise with every blink that you would not need the lunge.
But you already know in which direction she is gonna blink, she always blinks in the direction she faces and sure she can change that rather quickly with a flick, but the same goes for the distance with looking up or down... I don't think that would really help as even a fully charged blink can become shorter when you look up or down so it might even be more confusing for some people as it might obstract vision and not help much since the nurse can still change the destination of the blink immediatly.
I think it's rather fine that you can guess how long to blink is just by listening to the duration of her holding the blink and her fist being closed or not.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236528#Comment_3236528
Yeah that could work I don't know how fast 4.6 is cause I just don't know that but when it's fast enough to get m1 hits on survs so you don't rule out m1 perks for her it should work and with enough fatigue her blinks are strong but when you don't land it the surv can run could be fair would like to see that tested
I really love the aesthetic of nurse but can't play her for the love of God if matchbox where a brown/ meme addon I would probably play her pretty often
4,6 m/s ist 115% so the base ms for most killers... 4,4m/s is hag, spirit, deathslinger, trickster and Nurse right now has 3,85 m/s or 96,25% according to the wiki...
The worst thing about the whole idea is basically you cannot even make distance against her, because she does not need her blink for mobility so she will just run after you normally and then just 1 blink hit you... Yes it makes her weaker, but then what? It would be more unfun to play against her in chase... Every killer is supposed to have an interaction with the survivor in the sense of counterplay, but what exactly do you do against nurse? pre-drop pallets while out of side? Then she ll just hit you as soon as she gets vision and you cannot leave the loop because she is 4,6 m/s now and can just follow without much of a problem xD
Like seriously what is the counterplay supposed to be? Find high walls like against slinger? Well she ll just follow you around until she sees you and will hit you then, she won't even have to guess where you went as she cannot blink through walls so the only thing you'll get out of this is more unavoidable hits you' ll get and basically no form of counterplay...
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This would be basically the same as legion in his power... You will just get hit.. This is terrible idea... And still she would be just a weaker version of other killers... For Example Demogorgon or Nemesis... Also 4 seconds in which she fatigues? Or no fatigue and just 4 seconds later she can blink again?
Also i generally like it that she offers a special form of counterplay: Breaking line of sight and taking unique pathing... Making her the same boring killer as many other would be terrible... There are more than enough killers that hit you over pallets, windows and so on... No need for another one...
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For some reason my 2nd comment seems to have disappeared after i edited a typo... so once again...
Basically you made a weaker demogorgon, has they probably have the same restrictions to their ability usage: Cannot go through solid objects over pallets or windows... But then again Demogorgon is stronger as he has a higher movementspeed in his ability, he can cancel it aber readying his shred but nurse has to go through... He has a much shorter cooldown after a missed shred, and his readied up shred can be uses to zone people out of safe areas or certain spots you do not want them to go....
Also that restriction to Nurses power kind of already existed in an iri addon that gave her a 3rd blink but was considered a terrible addon as the restrictions were overwhelming... But even then she could still blink through dropped pallets and windows... These changes would just cripple Nurse...
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@Lastchild said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236455#Comment_3236455
The demo :
- has a shred.
- Can place portals.
How would my suggestions for the nurse make her look like him?
You even have a weaker demogorgon, demogorgons shred lets him move at 18,4 m/s, your nurse only has 10m/s... Demogorgon cannot shred through solid objects, your nurse cannot blink through solid objects. Demogorgon can cancel his shred after readying it up, Nurse cannot cancel her blink so Demogorgon has a zoning ability that your nurse has not, Demogorgon can shred through pallets depending on what your idea meant exactly your nurse might even get stopped by it...
In the End they would both be killers with a short/medium range anti loop ability that doesn't go through walls...
Also I would like to remind you that Nurses iri addon once gave you an extra blink but you couldn't blink through walls, but through windows and pallets and it was widely considered a terrible addon that nobody would run... So you might want to think about something else....
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This would just create a whole new range of problems...
- When you say she cannot blink through walls... Do you mean high walls like in jungle gyms or also dropped pallets and waiste high walls?
Because if you mean the 2nd she would be a terrible killer most of the time as you just made her into demogorgon or wesker, just weaker...
as for the 2nd part what counterplay do you expect? Yeah you ve succesfullly weakened her strenght but now she does not have counterplay, as said above she just waits for you to commit to an action just like the 10 other medium range anti loop killer, just worse because you cannot hit over objects... But now you cannot break line of sight to make her miss blinks or have her guess with direction you went... So all you do is follow the survivor and get a save hit every now and then...
also why did you nerf her blink movementspeed? Her base blink movementspeed seems fair to me...
The special attack thing is fine in general, but I would rather make it so some basic modifiers work and others not for exampel jolt and sloppy should work, but exposed not.
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Who even keeps track of kils or escapes? xD And even if you do what does that help you... I mean... you don't get the same amount of mmr gain or loss for every survivor... So even if you kept track you would if you lost or gained mmr after a game with 0 k and a game with 4k xD
Besides that I think they could show it yeah, maybe even with an option so you don't need to see it if you don't want to.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233996#Comment_3233996
Pinhead is a solo Q stomper. Sadako is mostly played by smart players. The bad players always pick nurse thinking to 4k all the time but are still bad players at the end of day and even picking nurse doesn't give them 4ks all the time
Holy moly dude, can you post one thing without your bias and downtalking people just for the killer they enjoy? As people already pointed out Wesker is new so of course he has a high pick rate... He is in fact loopable and it is one of the funniest things in the game to make him vault a window on accident and just nod at him afterwards... They could however tune down the amount of infection you get during chase as it makes it quite rough on the survivor after a certain amount of time and also makes tunneling easier, but besides that he is fine.
@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233858#Comment_3233858
No, wrong. It says dredge is easier to play than nurse and blight. Which is true
How does it say he is easier to play than Nurse or Blight? People mostly agree that Dredge is a rather mid tier killer with a limited amount of things he can do, some people sad he is basically just a worse Artist as in both put their thing (either the crow or the remnant) into the loop and will hit you unless you can reach another loop considering that Artist should basically outperform Dredge as she is also simple to play on that level...
If you say a higher killrate is linked to how easy a killer is to play, how does this make any sense? Legion or Wraith would be the killers with the highest killrates then (among others). Would be great if you can explain further how it is linked in your opinion.
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I think they just put them on the last offering page? Did you only check page 1?
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@Shroompy said:
I honestly think he needs another look at, but in a way that keeps Overheat
Ive made a post a while ago that has an add on pass and a change to Overheat, which can be found here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/312958/my-attempt-at-a-hillbilly-rework
That's actually a really good attempt to rework him, I like it :D
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But then again he basically has a crosshair build in and since it zooms you in on 125% (according to the wiki, if i read that correctly) it would probably mess with your aim anyway because it would not be equal to huntress for example.
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@Witchubtet said:
The concept is amazing but he just doesn’t have a good kit. He is the so easy to dodge and break free from and is the pure essence of a M1 killer. He can’t vault hit like huntress or spam like trickster. His add-ons are basic and his expose add on has a hitch that they have to be twelve meters from him. The maps almost all have so much junk that he will get his chain broken.
Just feels like he isn’t useful compared to the other ranged killers.
(I was forced to do his daily so I just had four annoying matches as him)
It is physically impossible to dodge deathslinger at short range... His harpoonshot moves at 40m/s same as a fully charged huntress hatchet... Unless you're at the maximum distance he can still hit you from, you just cannot reaction dodge his shot.. You can try to just randomly change directions before rounding a corner or something but you cannot react to him shooting you.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351093/deathslinger-is-currently-unfun-to-use
Deathslinger was nerfed into the ground a long while back. The only people that play him are the ones doing dailies and those that invested a lot of time into the character and don't want to feel that's it's been a waste.
It's a shame as he's fun to play as a character, just mostly useless outside of very low MMR.
1) I didn't put much time into him, but play him from time to time, I generally perform quite well on him
2) There is no such thing as low or high mmr... As the softcap is reached rather easily and for the sake of queue times you' ll get matched with most people anyway regardless of the actual mmr
3) He is a quite solid killer that can get a hit around basically any medium height loop, his antiloop is quite strong and calling him useless just makes me think you just don't understand how to play him...
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350968/so-what-happened-with-reassurance
2 things
1 it got a small nerf to prevent holding a hooked surivor hostage
2 nobody runs it anymore don't know why
A better fix would have been to just give survivors on the hook a button to deactivate such effects and just let go on hook... Also the range is a big annoying, apparently you cannot even reach people in basement with it... so how about 12-16 m? going through walls ofc
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231116#Comment_3231116
Most multiplayer games aren't balanced around available information like DBD is. It's the same reason why stretched res and filters are also a contentious issue.
Most games that have voice chat, you can just turn it off, and no one is any worse the ware for it. But voice chat offers a distinct advantage in DBD, which means if it were implemented in the game as a default feature, players would be pressured to use it.
Some kind of chat wheel however would be a brilliant way to level the playing field a little bit.
I thought the point of filters/nvidia or amd settings was just that the game offers terrible settings to change graphics or unlock basic stuff like v-sync or anti-aliasing. The game even used to have anti-aliasing options before they actually removed it. According to a Q and A video they even removed it on accident but promised to bring back the anti-aliasing option, didn't happen until now.
I mean sure you can say that they intend the game to look in specific way they consider best and most balanced, but when we look at the lighting in some areas for example the main buildingin garden of joy that just does not work out.
I agree on stretched res though, it gave you an advantage against the killer as you could see him better when you were not supposed to see him at all..
But this point is a crucial difference for me in the entire matter... Stretched res gave you an advantage against the killer... Adding coms just brings solo players closer to SWF that already use communications. By evening out the differences between those two groups of players you get something to balance around, but as long as there is difference in effectivity and communication or information you just have two different groups of players and cannot balance around both.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231116#Comment_3231116
Its not a new issue, and you just ignore the arguments that don´t suit you.
short: IF you make global voice chat, you have to balance the game, and you put a disadvantage on people who cant use it, whatever it is to language-barriers or other stuff.
I have not seen an argument to which I didn't refer to and explained why I don't think it is solid...
I don't even know what they are balancing the game currently for, but since there are still a lot of perks that try to give solo people some information people in voice chat already have I guess it is not SWF.
I don't think the available information is that big of a deal in comparison to different games... Other games just give you different options to call out stuff... Let's take a look at two other types of games to compare it to...
- RTS for example starcraft... When you play with somebody against other people it is crucial to come up with a stretegy and also spread the information you scouted to the other guy, so there is a ping system to tell the other guy about a building you just scouted in the enemy base, considering theres only a limited amount of buildings and you just have to ping it that works fine for the game... However in DBD Pinging a perk or addon would be way too much of a struggle and just no reasonable. So there should be a different way of spreading the information or deciding who does what...
- Moba Dota for example... The same goes basically for Mobas... You can ping items so your team knows what you're going up against and have a way to call out strategies via text or voice chat.
I don't think that available information is that much more crucial in DBD than in other type of games... If you don't scout the enemy base in starcraft and didn't prepare your build accordingly you're most likely just gonna loose, same goes for DBD, here you might not even loose the entire game but just the chase... Let's say you play against a killer with enduring spirit fury and your teammate scouted that but cannot tell you the killer has it you' ll just get hit or downed the next time it activates and only from then on you can play accordingly.
Available information is key in any game just like strategy.
As for the advantage it gives you and you feeling pressured to use it, I don't actually think it is that big of a deal. Using voice chat over text chat in games to play freely while communicating or communicating at all to gain an advantag is never a given often times people don't talk at all in games or even write... Be it counterstrike, dota or whatever. Even thought the mostly could have talked but decided not to.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231194#Comment_3231194
Oh so here is a buff for solo q, but if you dont want to be called slurs or people around you dont speak the same language, bad luck I guess, we're taking away the buff from you.
i'm also from Europe, my first language isnt english. The quantity of players I get that put no effort into speaking english is a lot.
I' m not saying we should not implement a chat wheel that adds to the quality of life, I'm just saying a real voice chat in addition to the chat wheel would be without a doubt a great idea.
"We're taking away the buff from you" I don't really know what you mean by that... You yourself could decide whether to mute or not mute the guys you're playing with and when they're not doing anything but spouting nonsense or slurs at you it is quite clear they do not want to communicate in a reasonable way... Yes might happen sometimes, some people might not have a microphone or do not feel comfortable talking to random people but it would still be a nice feature to have... In the end the possibility alone to be able to communicate with your teammates IF YOU WANTED TO would be a great thing don't you agree on that part?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231116#Comment_3231116
"Not a single person has brought up a reasonable argument"
Ok lets think:
1) It would only work in continents where people speak the same language. Believe it or not, there is more to this world outside of the US.
2) Toxicity: kids screaming, people shouting slurs, people blasting music, background noise etc.
1) I am not from the US, I'm from Europe and believe it or not quite a lot of people speak english over here and it is not their first language, english is my third language... Yes I admit it would maybe not work that well sometimes, but is that an argument to just not implement it at all? That's basically saying: "This feature improves quality of life in the game in 60% of cases,but because it does not do that in 100% of cases we just won't impelement it"....You could even implement a preffered language setting into the matchmaking if you want to go a step further...
2) There is this thing called a mute button... Basically every game has one... either for text or for voice...
Does not really sound reasonable to just not implement something just because it needs to have some more functions like muting players...
Also in most matches when i wrote in post game chat at least one person understood english... So even if you can't communicate with your entire team that way there will almost always be one guy that understands you..
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231116#Comment_3231116
"Not a single person has brought up a reasonable argument"
Ok lets think:
1) It would only work in continents where people speak the same language. Believe it or not, there is more to this world outside of the US.
2) Toxicity: kids screaming, people shouting slurs, people blasting music, background noise etc.
1)
Ok so you're saying it would not work that well in some instances, because of people not speaking the same languages, so instead of tackling that issue seperately with for example a prefered language setting we just don't implement it at all, even though in many instances people would have a language they would all understand... how is that reasonable dude?
2)
There is this thing basically every game with a voice chat has, that is a mute function...
You can't be serious that these two points were supposed to be reasonable mate...
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Have there ever been complaints in a multiplayer game that a voice chat simply exists? It is just a feature you do not have to use it, you are generally able to just mute everyone if you don't feel like talking to them... The possibility of not everyone speaking the same langue is not that big of an issue to not implement it.
Yes a chatwheel in addition would also be a great idea, but voice chat would be great too, especially when you need to coordinate an unhook against a camper for example where everybody needs to take hits for everyone to make it out.
Not a single person has brought up a reasonable argument why it would be a bad idea to have a voice chat and a chat wheel in this game, I simply don't understand what your issue is guys...
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@Xernoton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230631#Comment_3230631
By definition a buff is anything that makes something stronger / more viable. We are talking about QoL yeah, but SoloQ would become significantly stronger with a way to communicate implemented thus making it a buff.
As I said before, a voice chat is not a good idea. It would mostly be used for toxicity, there would be a language barrier and some people may not feel like talking to complete strangers. A set variety of options to say things like "Look out.", "Killer is on me.", "Going for unhook.", "Gen nearly done." would deal with the issue better, though the option to mute someone might still be necessary as some people would only use it for spamming.
I agree though that survivors should see each other's perks before the start of a match.
Again, basically any multiplayer online game has a voice chat, what is this weird made up reasoning for it being a bad idea?? Even if some people don't want to use it so what?
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
The bubbles that appear after a gen pops or someone gets hooked
Yes, they are so annoying, you just dont get so aura reading or even survivors directly for such a long time... It's so annyoing...
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230506#Comment_3230506
Do you understand that you're adding this feature for ALL survivors? How many solos/randoms do communicate via Discord?
It's as if you're suggesting that 4 random soloq players send a discord link in-game chat and talk. And adding in-game HUD indicators is just replacing Discord, except it's not.
The point is that even random players could already do it that way... not having to do that but adding a voicechat in the game itself is just quality of life...
When you're making something that is already possible easier to access that is what's called quality of life dude... Yes of course people go into discord with random people that often, because it is quite a lot of effort... So why not making it easier?
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You're viewing this in a twisted way, let me explain. Over the years whenever there was a problem in the game behaviour never changed the base mechanics, whenever there was a huge problem they created a perk for it, e.g.:
- Tunneling: DS
- Camping: Reassurance, Kinship(or whatever its called, the one that pauses the hook timer)
- and so on.
- Whenever they did this many people said maybe we shouldnt rely on having perks to solve crusial base issues with the game, and now when they are actually looking into it the right way, by not making it dependant on perks, people freakout about perks being basekit.
- It's not that we cry for perks as basekit, it's more like we want essential gameplay mechanics all the time instead of them being limited to perks so we can never try fun things... or being unable to do anything because you happen to not run a specific loadout.
- The game would be far more fun if perks were only a nuance but not a crucial change, because with perks having such a huge impact it oftentimes even as killer feels like you're not really playing the killer but the perkbuild...
- In summon: I think it's a great idea to have more core gameplay mechanics without the need to rely on perks for them to be accessable...
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I am kind of split on this topic, because on one hand I think it can be a skillfull thing to use demogorgons shred or nurses blink to get precisdely on top of the hatch, but you need those few seconds to recover from the action before you can actually close the hatch, so I don't like the idea of taking that away. But then again your scenario is also annoying... I guess something else than changing the size so you can't bodyblock it would be nice...
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I think basekit unbreakable is a great idea, I don't know how often the killer slugs for the 4 k and you just sit there for 5 minutes doing nothing while you bleed out, at least I will get hooked now and don't have to sit around so long until i bleed out... However I agree they should look at the time it takes to get yourself up with unbreakable, 22 seconds is a bit too much...
The basekit bt was also a great change even though I think it would have been better if the survivor just lost collision for a certain amount of time so he cannot bodyblock the killer into hitting him, but this variation is fine as well. 5 seconds was sometimes just a little too short to reach a tile...
Honestly making perks basekit is a good idea at some points just because there too many unfun things in the game that need to be taken care of in a way that does not rely on somebody running one specific perk... Perks should just make certain things easier or open up a different way to interact with the killer and not just be the only way to do something in certain point in time.
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The funniest thing about it is you can basically enable all those things in the game files which some people are doing and don't get banned for apparently, but BHVR cannot let you do this officially because easy anti cheat might ban you. So on the one side they for some reason cannot be bothered to put basic options in a game in 2022 and on the other hand also cannot let you do it yourself because of some anti cheat program that apparently doesn't even work most of the time, considering how many cheaters run rampant.
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I seriously don't understand why people are complaining about SWF, like a year ago when I used to have a stable group to play SWF with we had 2 guys who barely knew how to loop. Me and another mate could loop the killer for like 60+ seconds if we got lucky, those two guys went down in like 30 sec, often even less. Not every SWF is a comp squad that just wrecks havock over a killers match, some of them just want to have fun, and when people say bring SoloQ up to SWF level what they really mean is: Give SoloQ players an indicator if somebody is already going for the unhook, or the cube, or is in chase those simple things are probably enough. This would also help the problem of either several people going for the unhook or nobody going for it so the survivor might even die on hook.
Thats all there is to it. I don't even know if those basic things need a killer buff on the other hand? Maybe just some basic tracking so the killer doesn't wander around aimlessly so often but besides that I don't really feel like these changes make the killers match so much harder...
And to be honest if they seriously do make matches harder that's kind of fair because when you rely on people playing ineffectively to win your games you might just need to step up your game to keep up with it... Or maps are just terrible and the survivor is just way better than you, one of those at least... Basic communication really isn't that big of a deal...
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Billys overheat, it does not really help against facecamping as it was intended and just punishes newer players that try to play around with the chainsaw.
Facecamping I don't think there is an explanation needed why it is terrible. To solvei t just make it the same as pyramid heads cages, when the killer is too close for period of time the survivor just teleports to a hook on the other side of the map. (If wanted this feature could disable in endgame...)
Map RNG: There should not be such a huge differnce between how hard it is to win on some maps lets for example take shelter woods and fractured cowshed... You can loop an M1 Killer on cowshed for 5-8 min if you know what you re doing and on shelter woods you may get like 5 pallets total and can be happy when you reach one sometimes... Just make it more consistent how many pallets spawn and maybe give maps a maximum amount of certain tiles so you don't get 4 long wall jungle gyms or just TL walls.
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You cannot depip after grade reset for ash tier at least... I m not sure if it is also not possible to de-pip in bronze tier but at least it is really hard to de-pip there.
And also I can understand the frustration of survivors when the killer drags the game on, doing gens is the least fun part of the game therefore just having to sit there for another 3-4 minutes whilst knowing it is just because the killer wants it to might be annoying to some people.
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Killer: 8+ hooks = win ; 8 hooks = draw ; less than 8 hooks = loss
Survivor: Getting all gens done and escaping with at least one person.