Aquamarine
Aquamarine
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- Aquamarine
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Not unfair, but devs didn't really do anything to make it actually useful against tunneling. Just gave it a nerf.
Why is that? DS was never an anti-tunnel perk. It was like a "hit a skillcheck, hit the killer and get away once per trial", worked for tunneling somehow but allowed also doing other things or weaponizing the perk.
Now it can't be weaponized anymore that easily (which is good. The killer should the aggressor, not survivors) and DS really tries to be an anti-tunnel perk and fails at it's task. Tunneler tunnels after every hook, DS can be used just once. They can tunnel through DS because it doesn't hide scratch marks or obscure the killer's vision. The skillcheck is unnecessary if the purpose of the perk is just to prevent tunneling.
The problem is that devs want to keep tunneling as an option, they have said that. They wont change DS to actually counter it well.
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The changes were fair. But still, DS absolutely sucks as an anti-tunnel perk it tries to be. They should have reworked it to work better when the killer is really tunneling, not just give a direct nerf.
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"DS means that the survivor can freely do whatever they want during 60 seconds"
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@xXCAM3R0NXx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1913629#Comment_1913629
The funny thing is, killers complain about people running DS and that it's so OP.
Yet make us have to run it for situations like this.
They do, but what can you do about it really. Killer's objective is to kill people, and unfortunately the game isn't designed in a way that encourages doing it nicely. That means, making sure that nobody's removed from the game prematurarely. It's quite the oppotisite, tunneling someone out is the most effective way.
Killers want to kill but you don't have to let them do it. There are perks to help you, use them.
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Very few Nurses are actually godlike, not in purple ranks anyway. My usual strategy against her is to look behind while running in the open and double back or otherwise change direction when she blinks. Surprisingly often it works, and that's because nurse is difficult to play. Yes, a god Nurse is a thing, but the game should be balanced around the majority, not those few Nurse mains with 4000 hours.
My chases against Nurse last about as long as against other killers. It requires different tactics, but Nurse definitely has counterplay.
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That just happens sometimes. The basement is meant to be a dangerous place and if the killer sees someone is going down there, he'll follow. Sucks to be that survivor on hook but that's how it goes.
Run DS + UB next time. The most effective way to handle those situations.
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I don't like the dream world. it's ugly, sounds are annoying and survivor falls asleep very quickly over and over again. Waking up takes a lot of time. Ruin + Freddy is tedious because he can chase players off the gens effectively. That's why I don't like to face him.
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What are we supposed to do with all the map offerings then? The bloodweb gives them, whether we like it or not, and they cost BP. Not being able to use them is just...no.
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If the killer is genrushed, his game ends quite early. He 's in a hurry, probably doesn't have that much fun but still can hook survivors and maybe kill some of them. Still gets some points, not that much however. Bad game for the killer.
If a survivor is tunneled, his game ends EXTREMELY early. He gets hooked right after unhooking and really can't do much in the game. His points are next to nothing. Simply horrible game for the survivor.
If you view them as strategies, there's no difference. But the real difference is that survivors are actual players that care about if they are removed from the game as soon as possible. Gens don't care.
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If it was something actually useful (making good combos with certain perks), then grinding increases even more. We don't want that.
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DS is not an anti-tunnel perk. It does it's job poorly: difficult to use for newer players who need protection from tunneling the most. Works only once, when tunneler tunnels after every hook. That's not anti tunnel, it's anti momentum.
Many players use DS for anti tunnel anyway, because it's the closest thing there is.
Why we don't like change ideas? Many of them demand only nerfs, making it even easier to tunnel though DS. Few want to make it both fair for killers and an actually decent perk against tunneling.
At the same time, DS is too strong and too weak. It's not anti-tunnel but it definitely should be.
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The button smashing is a really dumb mechanic for many reasons. There should be automatic sruggle in second hook, it would solve all those issues AND this one as well.
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Escaping is already rewarded, survivors get quite a lot points from it. However, you can lose a game (as a team) and still escape, and losing shouldn't automaticly give a safety pip. Sounds like your team got stomped quite bad, and the last one finding the hatch depends mostly on luck.
However, I think if there are DCs, nobody should depip because at that point it has nothing to do with a fair match anymore.
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There are several counters to keys. Those are for example
- 4-man slug party at 5 gens
- Tunneling the key user out of the game early
- Franklin's Demise
As a survivor, the last one is the nicest option. You know, it's a risk to bring too many items into the lobby, and not having an item shouldn't ruin your game. Franklin's is fine and doesn't need a nerf.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1880850#Comment_1880850
Doesnt matter, there is not a single reason as a solo survivor to use a map offering. Survivor builds dont really depend on any maps. The only reason for solo survivors to use a map offering is to get a bigger map so the killer has to move a bigger distance towards them. That is a massive disadvantage for killers while being a massive advantage for survivors.
Especially if the killer used a build that requires a lot of walls, for example, then the game is literally unplayable for that killer.
I mean, the same logic applies to hook distance offerings. You need 3,5(so, essentially 3) survivor hook offerings to cancel out 1 killer hook offering, and hook offerings arent even that much of an impact on the game.
You cant balance offerings based on solo survivors if they have the same effect on SWF. Killer offerings should at least require 2 survivor offerings to be cancelled out. It's an assymetrical game, not a single survivor should be able to fully counter a killer.
Of course there are other reasons than just making the game harder for the killer. I usually burn a map offering if there's a map I haven't been in for ages. It's nice to have some variation instead of going to Autohaven or farm 3 times a row. Also, many achievents require certain maps.
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Another problem with the Twins is that running from Victor or dodging his attacks awards NO chase points at all. I guess chasing with Victor doesn't give points to killer either? Unfun time and less points from it.
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Boil Over. Once I was barely able to wiggle off and run trough the gates.
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The game shouldn't encourage hiding too much. Also, the killer is busy enough with the gens and hatch, adding a new way to escape would be too much.
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Imagine being the survivor who is getting tunneled. The game starts and the killer finds you, hooks you and comes back to hook you again immediately after unhooking. Ignores every survivor trying to make killer chase them instead and tunnels you out of the game early. You get 3000 points and depip. Fun?
That's why so many run DS.
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Dead hard can only prolong the chase significantly if you are on a right spot when forced to use it. It requires either luck or planning, otherwise it's just a short dash forward and gives you like three seconds.
Look, ALL perks give you "unfair advantage", that's exactly how they are supposed to work, and they are a part of the game. Dead hard wastes killer's time, there are tons of perks that do exactly the same to survivors.
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@Roobnus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1873778#Comment_1873778
I'm just giving you an honest opinion / reasoning from the perspective of an experienced Survivor. I am a friendly and respectful person but yes, when I play PvP video games, I am probably not the nicest player to face. If you can't handle that, maybe you shouldn't play online games. I don't flame people or insult them but when I notice I am more skilled than my opponent, I don't refrain from using that to my advantage / entertainment.
Bullying other people for entertainment and being okay with it is not exactly what "a nice, respectful person" is. Your actions matter, not words.
And that's right: if bm in games really ruins the experience, it's better not to play (why would you do it if it's not fun), but that wasn't the point. Personally, I don't give skilled tbaggers much attention but go after someone else instead. I probably wouldn't catch them quickly enough and have bad time trying, so why would I prioritize playing with them.
Funny thing i've noticed though: often tbaggers that are not skilled and go down fast are the ones who DC when caught.
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Roobnus sounds like a very unpleasant person. Why not bully other people, really? Amazing. You can have long chases and outplay the killer without being a total jerk about it.
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I was a heavy user of DS because it was way too common to be tunneled to death and end up with 4000 points. I've been starting to play without it lately, and the results? Just had a game where the killer happened to find me first and kind of ignored the other players until I was dead, then started to tunnel the next victim out of the game.
As long as that playstyle is common, those perks are needed.
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Can also be a high rank survivor who has just started as a killer, so they know how the game works. Maybe unlocked teachable perks for the killer first and started to play after that.
No need to report anything.
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I've had mostly Wraiths and Huntresses as camping killers and surprisingly few Bubbas. I have faced an insidious Bubba only once by the hook and it was almost hilarious to notice what just happened.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1858159#Comment_1858159
Playable... but is it enjoyable? If you prefer to play without items then go for it. I don't. Items are fun to play. This isn't about whether the game is playable with or without items. This is about a killer perk that literally deletes your item if you get hit and don't recover it in a short amount of time. Its unfair and unfun. Why can't survivors have an item or perk that disables the killer's special ability for a duration? Too much? I don't think so. You can delete my items, block my gens, camp my hooks, tunnel me, etc. etc. etc. but how much power do we really have over the killers? Survivors should be able to interact with the killer a whole lot more than we can now. But that is besides the point here. Franklins sucks and ruins the fun for me.
Killers are supposed to be stronger than survivors, that's why there are 4 survivors against 1 killer. Imagine if there was a perk that disabled killer's ability (not one like Calm Spirit that prevents screaming but one that disables any ability for a duration). Now imagine how all 4 decides to equip it, prevent Nurse from blinking and make her run 3,85m/s. It would be a disaster and an easy win.
That's the same problem with strong items. 1 medkit in the lobby doesn't do much, 4 good medkits is a different story.
"Killers have far less stress to deal with than survivors."
This is subjective, but I strongly disagree. Gens go fast, and if I decide to play a chill killer game without stressing about wasting time and chasing too long, that's 0 kills. Whereas I can play a chill survivor match and still do pretty well.
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Damn, I fell for it. :D
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It definitely should be a passive thing. There's nothing good about it, seriously. Missing one hit is such a pointless way to die, and it can be unnecessarily punishing for people with physical disabilities. I'm healthy, but my hand gets tired every time, which is just annoying.
Small thing, but why? Outdated mechanic.
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BBQ literally needs skill, it does nothing if you can't hook survivors. It's very healthy for the game, discourages camping and leaves survivors ways to counter it. If killer sees your aura, you are far from them and have a lot of time to get away and hide.
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Sprint Burst has a downside, you have to either walk or waste your Sprint Burst and hope you won't need it during the cooldown. If pallets/windos were disabled after DH, the perk would be completely useless. It would just prolong the chase like 2 seconds and wasn't worth a perk slot anymore.
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Keys should work only for aura reading, insta opening the chests and reopening the hatch once killer has found it and closed it. That gives ONE survivor last chance to escape without riskier gate-play and won't end the game prematurarely.
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This is why the hatch needs to be chanced somehow. I've been sacrificed often enough because my team mate refused to work on gens/unhook me and camped the hatch instead. While it's the most clever thing to do to get out, it's not good for the health of the game. If both decided to hide, the result would be exactly what you described.
If there are 2 survivors and several gens left, the killed has pretty much won already.
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I don't like too stealthy team mates as survivor because while they don't interact with the killer, I have to do it more. Of course they do important job repairing gens while the killer is in chase but it also means that not-so-stealthy survivors end up getting all hook states and die (unless they are way better than the killer which shouldn't be the case if matchmaking worked.) The stealthy ones escape.
I think it's fair. Someone has to have contact with the killer so the game shouldn't reward too much for not doing so.
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I wouldn't run Ruin with any hex that required tokens to work (such as Devour). The moment survivors notice there's Ruin in the game, they start to look for it and can accidentally cleanse Devour/ another hex that they wouldn't have known about yet.
Undying is still good to use with hexes that need tokens, making them less risky than before. There are still good ways to make gens regress but before this update, there really wasn't good ways to protect tokens.
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It's a nerf but I don't think it's that bad, because it encourages to combine Undying with other hex perks than just Ruin. It was almost unusable with any hexes that required tokens.
I'm sure there will be much more Devour Hope + Undying combos, especially after the mori nerf. Though it's possible that D/U will be the next thing people complain about and what happens then? Do they nerf Devour Hope too?
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Deep wound wasn't meant to down survivors but instead force them to mend. They made chances because 30 seconds just was too much time to do so, it doesn't help Legion though.
They should give Legion some ability to down people in frenzy, since so many killers can down survivors much easier. Something like that the first hit gives 100% deep wound timer, 2nd hit 50% and 3rd hit is instadown. Currently frenzy is not scary at all.
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I agree, and also the same option for killers to avoid toxic survivors.
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Undying really didn't make much sense earlier. It made a really strong combo with Ruin but was almost useless with many other hexes, because they lost all tokens. They shouldn't have touched the aura reading but otherwise I like it.
I'm starting to run it with Devour Hope then.
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"I don't know why some killers have this idea that playing a key is just this super unfair advantage a survivor has over them."
Killers play under time pressure (survivors too, but killers especially). As a survivor, chases are super fun, the longer the better. As a killer, I often think "omg 15 seconds without a hit. I have to catch Dwight right now or go after someone else", because if you waste any time, gens pop left and right. Bringing a key into game makes the pressure bigger, because after a certain point, all survivors can just escape without you even noticing. And without the risks of opening the gate.
I had a survivor game a while ago. 1 gen left, 3 survivors alive but 2 of us on death hook. The killer had still a chance to win. However, we had a key and we all escaped through the hatch and the game ended much quicker than without the key. I don't think keys are unfair per se, but they are very powerful items, so it's completely fine to try to get rid of them with Franklin's.
"In the case of franklin's demise another idea I have is to instead of changing the perk itself, give survivors an addon that prevents the item from being dropped when hit with franklin's."
This is a good idea.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1856311#Comment_1856311
It absolutely would be worth the perk spot. Think of an end game situation where a survivor has a key as a last chance to escape and you find them. If you hit them, you would disable their ability to use it long enough to probably catch them if they can't stay away from you long enough. Out right deleting the item is not fair. I'm sorry but I truly believe survivors have it a lot tougher in this game. Not all survivors play on a super experienced or professional level. For me, there comes a point where a game feels like a job and then it is no longer fun. If I worked super hard to be the best runner or looper in the game then I'd probably end up hating the game very fast because for me it would be more stressful than fun.
In that situation, yes. But don't you think that's a bit too rare to use a perk slot for it? In your scenario, there's one survivor left. The killer has found the hatch and closed it. Then found the last survivor and hit them. The survivor is pretty much dead anyway at that point, so the killer doesn't get much value out of disabling the key for a moment. I wouldn't use a slot for that.
It's completely fine to bring items (even keys). But it's equally fine that the killer uses a perk slot to get rid of them, since items make killer's game harder. I mean...the killer is trying to kill survivors. It doesn't hurt too much if they are trying to destroy the items as well. Also, if you see your lobby is already full of toolboxes, the risk of facing Franklin's is higher. In that case it's worth considering not to bring an item yourself and feed it to entity.
I'm by no means an experienced survivor (and even less experienced killer), but I think the survivors are supposed to have rough time during the trials so that surviving actually feels like surviving.
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No, it shouldn't be any easier to just eat DS, continue chasing and drag the survivor back to same hook. There are issues with DS but they can't be solved by turning it into exhaustion perk. It would only make it harder to counter camping and tunneling with it.
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KateMain, do you play as killer? Have you ever tried Devour Hope yourself? Seriously, it's so risky (doesn't combine well with Undying and the hex needs to survive quite long before you get any real value out of it) that it must be strong as well or it's just a wasted perk slot.
There can be times when the whole team is destroyed by devour hope mori. Other times, the hex is cleansed right away and the killer plays with 3 perks. That's completely balanced. I think you only consider those times when DH actually gave you hard time and don't pay much attention to those games, when you check killer's perks in the end game lobby, find out they had Devour Hope but didn't notice it whole game (because it got destroyed or killer was too close and didn't get tokens).
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The black circle is horrible. You have no clue whatsoever where the killer is going when to circle covers your vision.
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Franklin's is just a better alternative to lobby dodging. Many killers dislike keys so much that they just refuse to play against them and leave the lobby. Others run Franklin's and destroy the keys, which is better.
I bring very rarely any items with me but instead loot some chests and use whatever I happen to find. You shouldn't expect keeping the items (or you life, and then you lose the items too) when you enter the trials.
Using Franklin's would never be worth a perk slot if it just disabled the item for a short time. This game is not all about survivors' fun. Killers need their fun too.
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How many hours do you have? If it's a lot, maybe the game is just over for you already. Everything starts to repeate itself and few games are that fun to play after thousands of hours.
I think a part of the problem is that so many perks are just useless. People stick to those good ones and then everybody uses them.
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If my team mates are still in there, I wait a little bit to see if someone gets hooked and I need to go back.
If not, I leave immediately.
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It's not discouraging enough to face camp. In theory, the killer can't afford camping someone on their first hook if other 3 are rushing gens meanwhile.
In real life, lower ranks and especially solo, it doesn't work that way. Other survivors could be doing gens but 2 of them approach the hook, see that killer is camping, crouch behind a rock thinking what to do, run around a little and try to lure the killer away. Then notice that the one on hook can't be saved. The hooked survivor died and not much gens were done during that time.
I think the hook timer should be longer. So long that it discourages camping and leaves team mates time to do gens even after they have tried rescuing.
Camping works unfortunately and it's bad for the health of the game.
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Really? What is "a fun match" to you?
I'm a survivor main but Devour hope is probably my favourite perk in the game. In my opinion, unfun builds are something that make gens regress back to zero time after time after time and once again. Something like Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer + Discordance on Freddy.
Devour hope is strong but also risky and definitely doesn't come for free. Totems are often in very obvious places and can be cleansed fast. Killers need to be far from the survivor getting unhooked or they don't get stacks.
I don't really face Devour hope often and when I do, it's usually either cleansed early or maybe one survivor get's mori'd. DH is pure terror in a good way and makes games fun for me.
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It's not uncommon to face much more experienced and toxic survivors as a new killer, and it sucks. There's not much you can do about it, but if you notice you can't beat the team, don't care too much about actually hooking anyone. Take it as tracking/ chase practice and don't go to gates when they open them to watch crouch spamming. Also, disable the chat.
If tracking is major problem, you can play as a survivor for a while, get BP and unlock some tracking perks with it, and then try again. Spies From the Shadows, Bitter Murmur and Whispers are fast to get from the bloodweb. The Legion is actually very good at tracking survivors with their power, and they also have a good tracking perk, Discordance.
I don't know where you searched the survs, but it's usually best to patrol the generators. You can also hear from a short distance, which generator they are working on to save some time.
My first killer matches were pretty much like yours.
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Yes, in my opinion Legion is a very fun killer to go against and it's always nice to face them. I get more chases with them, since they occasionally just stab with frenzy and then go to stab someone else. Losing a chase means getting hooked against other killers, but Legion usually doesn't hook you after every lost chase. In other words, doesn't kill too fast.
As for mending, it doesn't bother me. it's 12 seconds, I don't get bored in that time.