Anti051
Anti051
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- Anti051
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
As long as the EGC works the way it does, yes, 99 gates should remain untouched.
The EGC does not need to be even stronger for the killer than it already is.
It isn't strong at all, it even has a hand-holding slowdown effect when there's a hook or a down.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366440#Comment_3366440
Why is it okay to take away a pardon for survivors who got “outplayed” (even when Dead Hard does require actual timing skill to use) yet killers get perks like NoeD which can completely alter the outcome of the game when they’ve been “outplayed” and the only defense against is having blessed and/or cleansed every totem on the map. That requires no skill on the killers part, and it feels like a free pass. In fact, plenty of killer perks and powers cause Exposed which completely removes a health state. But survivors can’t benefit from a chance at avoiding losing one?
Why is it okay? Because if a survivor is exposed, the killer is still required to outplay at the tile for the down.
- 'Exposed' doesn't enable the killer to undo losing after the fact, they still have to win at the main pvp interaction.
- 'Dead Hard' enables the survivor to undo losing after the fact, they no longer have to win at the main pvp interaction.
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Rework blindness for killer, survivor or both?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396008#Comment_3396008
You can easily flip that and state there is no camping and tunneling, just killers doing their objective.
That actually is true, though. "Camping, tunneling, slugging," these terms were invented and cultivated into social taboos as a way of trying to control the way killer playstyles develop.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396630#Comment_3396630
To be fair, survivors currently have little to no defence atm with only dead hard being their only lifeline, and look how the game turned out.. Gen rushing should always be a thing and putting limitations on something means a killer can just knock, hook and get back to the gen all while counting and 100% knowing that the gen still won't get popped, unfair if you ask me.
The overabundance of pallets is the survivor's defense.
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'Exposed' effects would make this weird.
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Why do anything when 'Final Mori' is in the works?
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It still exists, but will no longer carry players through matches. What's the problem?
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Excellent response to feedback!
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Knockout is amazing at stopping the gen rush, it can create a lot of pressure if used properly.
Head-on can save your teammate's ass and knock off a lot of the killer's pressure.
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If used properly, dead hard allows you to get outplayed at a tile, but then just win anyway after the fact. The killer may be able to expose a survivor or hit them with a chainsaw, but they still have to outplay a survivor at the tile to catch them.
It's not right for some survivors to be jumping actual gameplay hurdles for their wins with looping skill and mind-games while others are just dead harding at pallets and posing as good loopers.
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What if we saved all the feedback/criticism for after we've actually tried the update?
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Alright listen,
If you're playing in higher MMR matches, a good killer will not and should not have a problem multi-slugging to create pressure, just like good survivors should not take issue in finishing gens as fast as possible. Killers are not there to be your buddy, they are there to make you die. Survivors are not there to play grabass and chum around with the killer like it's some kind of stupid cartoon, they are supposed to try to get the hell away before they get ######### up and murdered by the monstrous shade of a psychopath/unfortunate soul turned monster/straight up monster, conjured up by an utterly evil, hope-sucking, interdimensional entity.
All this fingerpointing talking about "they didn't play nice" is just about as dumb as dumb can be (all things considered).
If you're looking for kindness as far as gameplay goes, you're playing the wrong game.
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Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that allows you to get outplayed at a tile, but undo it after the fact. Now people actually have to be good at judging distances and truly outplaying the killer to get to safety instead of just pressing one button on time near a pallet whenever they miscalculate.
It isn't something to lament that DbD is finally going to feel more like a game and less like a weird horror charade....Unless you were never really interested in having a fair game in the first place, which seems to be the case to a rather disturbing degree.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5QWNS14MS0@feffrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380699#Comment_3380699
Why can't you bait it out? Breathe down their neck? Wait for them to make a bigger blunder than dancing on a jungle gym?
Here you go, good luck without the constant crutch.
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No more whackos tapping E to undo getting outplayed on tiles all the time, I'm elated!
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380674#Comment_3380674
Imagine posting this and not having enough self awareness to realize that the only reason you were hitting so many DH's was because you mindlessly swing into every single survivor that gets into range.
If 0.5 seconds of highly telegraphed, obvious endurance is such a consistent problem for you, I'm sorry, you're being outplayed.
It's absolutely phenomenal to think that you've ignored the entire discourse as long as it went on about why you can't bait out DH all the time.
And for the record, the only skilled DH play is when you're in the open.
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@feffrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380674#Comment_3380674
Imagine playing killer and winning cause that's all you can do is imagine you'll never win with that attitude
Ooh I got out played and stalled let me cry about it
Seems to make you pretty uncomfortable that survivors are going to have to actually be good at the core aspect of the game to get away, just like the killer has to be good at the core aspect of the game to catch somebody.
Imagine being agitated about a more even playing field 🙄
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Oh no, people will have to actually be good at running tiles to escape now instead of just smashing E after getting outplayed, how terrible and "unhealthy." 😆
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No more getting carried through matches by Dead Hard, I'm so thankful right now. Thank you, Devs for listening!
Fearmonger and Blood Echo are looking pretty sexy too for the upcoming shift.
For the first time in quite awhile, I'm excited and looking forward to playing more M1 killers!
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If gen speed was nerfed, it would have to include more strict anti tunnel mechanics or it wouldn't work out.
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It does look and feel pretty dumb when people bodyblock with BT and OTR. I'm all for there being no collision when those are active.
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376376#Comment_3376376
It's the most used perk because:
- Unlike killers, who all have unique powers that benefit from different builds, all survivors have the same abilities.
- It's the only exhaustion perk that's fun to use. It's the only one with some element of interaction with the killer. Most of the others simply activate and you just zoom away. The exception being Head On, which is virtually impossible to get use out of in solo queue, and get more than one use out of in a match.
- It's the only exhaustion perk that's mildly useful against Nurse, Spirit, and Blight.
90% of the time, survivors would get more value out of something like Sprint Burst or Lithe. Those aren't fun to use, though. It isn't fun to immediately zoom away from the killer, likely ending the chase before it even started.
It's not a second chance if you're making plays based around having it.
Bud, you are interacting with the killer when you run a tile against them.
Dead Hard is the most used perk because it can allow you to win anyway after you've already been outplayed at the tile (no setup required).
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Strikes me as a supplemental sort of thing
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
I love how Dead Hard is a nearly useless perk everyone with two braincells can easily counter, yet somehow sees use in almost every game, especially in high MMR.
I love how Dead Hard has a "counter" and that counter is "always be afraid of Dead Hard, assume everyone uses it, adapt your entire playstyle around it, waste time every single chase, pray that there is no pallet or vault or exit gate or hatch nearby, then you'll have a chance to "counter" it by having the Survivor use it wrong."
I love how Dead Hard 100% invalidates lunges and any power with a wind up.
I love how Dead Hard is justified because of Nurse, yet for some reason nobody campaigns to bring all Killers to Nurse's level, who apparently is the gold standard for balancing.
I'd also love to see what would be gonig on in these forums if any Killer perk would be as strong, oppressive and versatile as Dead Hard.
Yeah, it'd be swell if killers had a perk like Dead Hard that could just undo the entire pvp interaction in-loop when they get outplayed . Oh wait, nvm, that'd be game-breaking horseshit because then killers wouldn't have to be good at playing the loop, just at pressing E 0.5 seconds before the vault/pallet drop.
It's almost like players shouldn't have a perk that allows them to win anyway after they've already been outplayed.
Or is that just "ignorance."
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376261#Comment_3376261
Is playing to have fun, instead of optimizing the easiest win and making the most boring matches possible, off the table?
A game by definition is a contest, you're supposed to try to win.
While gaming, fun is the byproduct of a well-designed game.
Frankly, DbD is more of a charade than a game rn.
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@Grum said:
Because it's ****** and unfun for the people you're playing against.
And probably why every survivor is intent on cranking gens as quickly as possible and then leaving; because they've been conditioned to do so in response to every killer tunneling every match and then holding a 3 gen hostage until everyone dies of boredom.
Actually, it's the opposite.
Right now efficiency is very high while resources are overabundant, so most killers in higher mmr matches go to desperation tactics right off the bat, lest they lose.
The higher gen efficiency gets, the faster the killer has to jump to desperation tactics to stand a chance i.e. tunneling, camping and hard slugging.
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@AMOGUS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3374877#Comment_3374877
If every single person who elaborates makes arguments with holes in them, it kinda should be called ignorance... or something.
I don't understand, do you all think that because someone types in a calm tone, uses perfect English and writes paragraphs means that they're right or that what they have to say is automatically valuable? Ignorance isn't just for the loud and angry.
Right, because asking that M1 killers NOT be screwed out of having a fair game is somehow ignorant.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3373384#Comment_3373384
So what you're saying is you want to run subpar but fun builds and still perform? And the game isn't impossible for killers against "halfway decent" survs. Playing both roles as I do, killer is by far the easier of the two roles. And who cares if the blight didn't get the initial down? It costs blight scant seconds, he's one of the killers that DH is necessary against because of how he circumvents the whole gaining distance aspect of a chase. 3 health states against a blight is kinda necessary.
Don't get me wrong, sweaty SWFs are a nightmare. But the majority of survs simply cannot play to that standard. And it doesn't take many mistakes or quick downs for a game to spiral out of control for the surv side. DH or no.
Simply put, DH is a great perk. And survs NEED a strong perk. But it has counterplay, requires damn good timing to use and isn't effective in every single situation. The way you talk about it makes it sound like it breaks the game and is capable of carrying teams that wouldn't ever win otherwise which is simply not true.
Having never seen you play I suppose I can't realistically comment on your skill with any accuracy. But if DH annoys you this much I can only assume either that you aren't good at anticipating or countering it, or it's an attitude thing and you just hate not getting the down when you feel you should.
It's a powerful but reasonable perk.
Dead Hard does break the game.
Every time it's elaborated upon, you just call it ignorance.
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Gate BM is just the frosting on the bad time cake, there are more pressing issues, but incentive to leave asap would be a good thing. After all, you don't want people to hate playing either role.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Boring i'd say, every match would be about the same then.
I still stand with my notion that people overvalue balance way to much. Variety is what makes a game replayable.
Imo a perfectly balanced DbD is a DbD that won't survive long
Entire reason we don't see a lot of variety in higher ranks is because most of the killer kits suck.
OP's idea would be more fun than the pallet tour extravaganza carrying on right now.
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Is this really the "Smash Brothers of Horror" if we don't have a Werewolf, Vampire and Frankenstein's Monster?
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372564#Comment_3372564
So the only defence now is that the perk is powerful when looping a pallet. Which is directly counterable by a lot of killers.
Doesn't really fit the definition of a "broken" perk.
Actually,
Super-enhancing your survivability when using the primary mode of defense fits perfectly, especially when the function of the perk is "ignore results of gameplay and 'win' anyway."
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371309#Comment_3371309
The fact that you think that one must bring Potential Energy every game in order to break 3 gens against a Skull Merchant camping a tight 3 gen running Call of Brine and Overcharge and refuses to take any chases outside of the 3 gen is hilarious.
Last time I checked, 20% - 80% of a gen, the maximum percentage you could possibly get if the stars align and all 4 survivors are running Potential Energy, is less than 100% of a gen, and that can easily be lost if the killer kicks and guards the gen or just basic attacks you to make you lose stacks.
But please, by all means, keep preaching about how Potential Energy has to be run every game in order to save us from the occasional 30+ minute Skull Merchant game, because honestly it's pretty entertaining, kind of like those guys in New York City who shout "The end is near!" while carrying a poorly made sign.
It's like you don't even know that there are 31 different killers that you have to prepare your perks against, and the vast majority of games will never require breaking a 3 gen, and that even if you do they can usually just be broken with a little teamwork unless the killer's power was just plain badly conceived and implemented.
Conveniently forgetting about bnp's in tandem, I see. Come on now.
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@DrewpyCheekz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369315#Comment_3369315
yeah but at that point why play SM when you can play blight or wesker and its just 100x more fun than just camping a gen until the match times out with overcharge cob and like oppression unnerving or jolt erupt or any of the other combos. why do killers sacrifice fun for everyone to win, they are only 20% of the game you shouldnt be able to ruin it for everyone for your stupid ratio in a casual game
Last I checked,
In a PvP game (Player versus Player) you are supposed to try to beat the other player, not babysit them.
If you don't want to actually play the game, then keep memeing and RPing, your MMR will adjust.
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I don't understand why mobile can turn it off, but PC can't. It's weird.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372092#Comment_3372092
You keep banging on about one niche situation. One that a lot of killers can easily play around or directly counterplay. Counter loop, stealth, map traversal. That doesn't make dh broken or unbalanced.
And I don't watch these streamers so can't really comment on howuch they struggle with DH BUT I certainly don't think we should balance the game around streamers.
Even at high levels of play, against a good killer DH can't carry the game on it's own. In one of these discussions recently someone posted a tournament video of an Oni who swung into dead hard 5 times in the match. And still got a 4k. It was used by all the survs in the game, used effectively and they still lost. At the highest possible level of play. Imagine how short that game would've been if they couldn't use it. A broken perk is one that is insanely easy to use, with little to no counter play, that makes it impossible for one side to win. Eruption did that, when I used eruption as killer it was practically an auto win and it was next to impossible to counterplay especially in solo q. DH does not. It's the most used surv perk in the game and yet the kill rate is above 60%
when I play killer, which I do frequently, and at my mmr I see a LOT of prestige 80+ players, I counterplay DH all the time. Against players with 5-10times as much playtime as I do. Sure I swing into it, and when it happens it's frustrating. But I know the surv made a good play and I respect that.
I think most killer mains have the mentality that it's the perk that frustrates them the most, and frequently so they call for it to be removed/nerfed. A hard timer on it I would be fine with, but any harder nerf/removal and you'd really be hamstringing survivors in general and kill rates would definitely jump to unpleasant levels.
Yeah, god forbid that survivors ever be required to be good at the core aspect of the game to escape.
And actually, DH @ pallet has carried and delivered more people out of my grasp than Moses did out of Egypt and continues to be the bane of my existence as a Ghostface player (even with Monocular & Fearmonger).
You have to win at a mindgame in-loop to get the necessary distance to attempt landing a hit at the very tip of a long lunge before they get to the pallet, it's hard as ######### (a lot harder than tapping a button on time, frankly). If I succeed, the hit is easily reaction DH'd since it's coming from as far away as it can. If I "wait it out," then down comes the pallet and off go the teabags....Which is dumber than a screen door on a submarine.
You lose a lot of momentum from not catching a person (especially with a killer that can do nothing in chase), but that should be because the survivor actually outplayed you at the mindgame for the pallet, not because they tapped E to pardon themselves after already losing the mindgame. This sort of crap has to stop, dude.
Dead Hard breaks the gameplay down into a horror-themed charade. All we're asking for is fairness on this busted perk that more or less governs the game at this point, why is that such a tall order?
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@Grum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368668#Comment_3368668
Every situation where a survivor will DH is hyper telegraphed and can be outplayed. You people act like 0.5 seconds of endurance is an invincibility cheat for the entire match, and not something that any halfway decent killer can easily mind game and outplay.
I guess if you acknowledged that then you would have to actually admit there's room for improvement, instead of just pretending every single play you make is flawless and it's everyone else's fault if you lose.
So let me get this straight,
If you outplay the killer at the mindgame in a loop, it should count and there's no problem, but If the killer outplays you in a mind game at the loop, you should be able to pardon yourself from the outplay because you tapped one button on time?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370030#Comment_3370030
I wonder what could be done to make low mobility killers more effective vs shift-w. Maybe they could use a perk that gives them haste effect when they walk near generators. I am not entirely sure. Many killer feel like a lost cause.
Their kits need to be able to do something real in-chase so there's actually a point to leaving the last generators. Atm if you just leave the last 3 gens to go on an M1 chase, it's likely you lose. 1st and 2nd generation Eruption allowed the killer to leave the 3-gen and still have a chance, idk why they didn't just replace the incapacitation effect with a 16-second entity block on the gen.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370160#Comment_3370160
Since when is stalemating a game until one side gives up or the server shuts off "high caliber." Hahaha you're a funny one.
"Only run perks that speed up gen progress every game, despite there being over 100 survivor perks, purely because you must break 3 gens at all cost on the off chance that you run into a Skull Merchant, who can literally spawn in next to the 3 gen you want to break with gen kick regression perks and never leave, making all your anti-3 gen perks useless."
Quit acting like you're some kind of arbiter of the truth of dbd. Your whole comment shows you have a poorer understanding of this game than anybody else in this thread. Try pulling your head out of your ass and learning how to talk to people, because you sound like someone who's only interaction with other humans has been through a computer.
TL;DR Please go outside and touch some grass for your own good. This is a video game, not a Hunger Game.
Uh yes, if the killer doesn't leave their 3-gen the entire match, then it is easy to charge potential energy from multiple people and massacre the last gen as I've stated. If you want to beat good killers, those killers are going to 3-gen because that's the best defensive tactic and you can't just bring whatever you want if you expect to beat them, just like a killer can't bring random builds and expect to beat good survivors that will try to break up and separate 3-gens.
It's nobody's problem but yours if non-sugarcoated facts about the structure of the game make you emotional.
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*rubs temples*
Both sides should have to play well to catch/escape. Atm a survivor can get outplayed at a loop, but can make none of that core gameplay matter via Dead Hard.
The point at which you can't wait it out has been explained many times now with few people but Peanits actually taking it into account.
Neither side should be able to pardon themselves from losing in loops through what is essentially an I-win button.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371030#Comment_3371030
When I play, survivors get 100% BP all the time, like 90% of all time, when Killers get bonus, its only 25-50% bonus
So…..
It's according to region.
@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371091#Comment_3371091
Well if u're gonna q as killer and camp a 3 gen from the start of the game do not expect people to be happy about it and be nice :)
What do you really expect when they're stuck with nothing but M1, drones, and no consistent way to end chases quickly?
Nobody is going to just fold and go on a pallet tour with you...
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Could turn it into a ticket-based system instead of a three strikes system. Similar to respawn tickets in another asymmetrical game called 'Depth.'
Then tunneling wouldn't matter since you could get hooked again and again and nobody would start actually dying until hook tickets run out.
No idea if programming something like that is possible at this point.
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DH is the only perk that allows you to pardon yourself from losing the core aspect of the game.
Right now people are substituting actual skill at running the killer with an I-win button, then people who actually do have real skill at running the killer are bringing DH and becoming gods (same as previous DH).
It does not matter what the timing or circumstance is, you cannot be allowed to nullify all the work and skill another player had to put forth to outplay you with nothing but pressing a single button on time. That half second timing is not so difficult that it should cancel out literally anything the killer can try, it's the epitome of ridiculousness.
If a survivor beats a killer at the mind game and makes the window/pallet in time, should the killer be able to tap one button on time and make that survivor's skilled play just not count? Of course not, so why is utter BS like that allowed in the opposite direction?
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If every killer could do something real and effective in-chase, then they might be more inclined to leave the last 3 gens since they're supposed to stop survivors from powering gates by any means necessary according to the actual game manual (not the fake, constantly morphing survivor-written dictations).
Patrolling the only part of the map that matters based on the limitations of your killer's kit is not "camping the 3-gen." It's literally doing what the real game manual says you ought to do as the power role.
If you leave the last 3 gens to take a chase that you cannot end quickly, you are asking for a loss as the killer. So stop trying to suggest anything along the lines of punishing the killer for not being stupid and chasing you off into oblivion on a pallet tour while your mates polish off the last objective unabated.
So you think you're a good survivor?
- Why aren't you using Deja Vu to know where every possible 3-gen is as the game progresses?
- Why aren't you charging potential energy for the inevitable macro play that a good killer will make?
- Why aren't you using hyperfocus/stakeout in tandem with potential energy and stacked toolboxes to massacre the last gen?
- Why are you ignoring the tools availed to you for dealing with 3-gen strats and instead using casual, random builds and running in with no game plan expecting to beat a good killer who DOES have a game plan?
- Why are you constantly trying to lobby for the game to become some horror-themed cakewalk instead of exercising a basic level of intelligence like an actual good survivor?
It isn't easy to blaze through all objectives and therefore isn't "fun?" Sounds like you're having a hard time accepting that a game (especially a PvP game) is meant to be an actual contest (there's a reason it's called a "trial" and not called a "ride").
I swear if BHVR keeps on developing based on the opinions of people who don't even fully understand what's going on, DbD will cease to be a contest and as such will cease to be an actual game.
The OP is absolutely correct according to the fact of the matter.
FYI,
"Game"
noun:
a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
TL:DR (Attention span too tiny)
Stop whining that your formless, random gameplay isn't beating high caliber killer players.
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@Quizzy said:
Funny how ppl keep complaining about 3 gen strats when potential energy is literally right there. But nobody wants to use it. Oh well.
As well as Deja Vu (shows 3-closest generators at the beginning and after every single gen completion + provides 5% repair bonus on any of the highlighted gens) and Hyperfocus/Stakeout + stacked toolboxes for the final gen.
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@thrawn3054 said:
3 gen only sucks when they refuse to even attempt to chase.
This is why every killer needs to be able to do something real in-chase. The entire idea behind 2nd generation Eruption was to allow the killer to leave the last 3 gens to go on a chase without being completely screwed in the process. You'd prime your 3-gen, then you could take a chance at leaving it and if you succeeded in catching somebody, you'd be rewarded with a game extension long enough for you to get your victim hooked and get on your way again. If the eruption proc got countered by dead hard, you'd just lose.
And then think about how it is right now:
If you're playing killer, what is the point in leaving the last 3 generators to go on an M1 chase against a dead hard user when there are tons of easily chainable pallets and windows? There isn't anything there anymore to encourage you, as a killer, to leave the last 3 gens unless you have a power designed for chasing.
Why do SM players tend to not leave a 3-gen? Because they can only hold W + M1. If you can't do anything real in the chase, what's the point of taking the chase at 1 gen left?
This is not hard to comprehend.
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Would be cool.
Killer kits being too weak is why there isn't a lot of variety.
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Moris, yes.
Emotes, no.
Adding tools to enhance trolling is bad.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368898#Comment_3368898
I like the screams sounding more natural, but no screams need to last longer than 4 seconds.
FYI - There is nothing "natural" about a long, clean scream after having your chest cavity pierced.
Screaming on hook was already weird by default, this scream change just ups the game's annoyance factor...which is bad, obviously.
Not sure why they don't cast polls for this sort of thing to see whether or not the community even wants it.