Akumakaji
Akumakaji
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486954#Comment_3486954
you see, if people let go then it would look like the perk is a non-issue to devs, because there's no negative or any feedback whatsoever on it.
devs often tend to leave problematic things that aren't spoken of enough be untouched for a very long time because the community doesn't make it clear these things are a problem to them.
This! This perk is making those players that were night impossible to catch untouchable for all prectical purposes, and its really frustrating when all thats standing between you and them is one tree or one pile of scrap, yet you can do nothing but leave them and hope that any of the other survivors poses a better situation for you.
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I havnt read any comment here, just as a preface if my buler points were already addressed: peeps rightly claim that you shouldn't be punished for playing with your friends and that dropping the Hammer to savagely on SWFs would severely hurt the game, and this peeps are right.
And while a lot of killers paint all SWFs groups as blood thirsty bullies that make playing a decent game impossible, the vast majority of times SWFs play right into the killers hand by being extremely altruistic and favoring going for a risky safe, instead of slamming this gen and letting their buddy marinade into second hook stage.
Fully tooled up SWFs are a true nightmare, though, and if they are committed to just winning, splitting up and favoring gens instead of friends in lieu with BNP and toolboxes will nearly always see them through with rarely more then 2 or possible 3 hooks by the killer.
I offer two solutions that would help to defang the situation, without hurting peeps who just want to play with their friends.
1) Show who played with whom after the game. The killers who would write down all the SWFs groups should be even rarer then true SWF seal teams, but this would show killers how many of the games they rolled actually had a SWF in them. And in the cases were an extremely well coordinated SWF tabled the killer, they couldn't gaslight them by claiming "lol, no we are soloQ and never met before. You were just bad". There is basically no reason to withhold this information, as openness about the perceived OPness of SWF contrasting with reality can only help to sooth both sides.
2) Don't allow duplicate perks and addons in a SWF. A casual group of friends might only have to adjust slightly, until everyone finds their niche, and someone might discover their new favorite build or perk this way. In my own SWF group we already have basically no double perks, besides a Lithe, Unbreakable or Proof here and there, as we all just run our favorite builds and try different stuff.
It's the highly tooled up SWFs groups that might feel this the most. They will also adapt the fastest, but that's ok, at the very least build variety will help to mitigate some of the most broken and bonkers setups. SoloQ players won't be affected by this at all and can just equip whatever they want.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482796#Comment_3482796
i am not saying pig ambush is of good strength. I am saying it has potencial to have good strength that it does not need reduced attack cooldown at base-kit.
Pig's ambush charge is weak because it does not have enough movement speed, enough duration and it takes too long to charge+all add-on related to it are severely under-tuned in term of being able to hit the survivor.
they just run away when you crouch, but you can fake it.
from my experience, you actually cannot fake ambush charged against good survivor at base-kit. you can perfectly stand in specific positions where you can time the 1 second charge time and move outward toward loop where pig physically cannot hit you. If you try to cancel it, then survivor can run back to the loop. they also give you that baby mode-type roar in case you cannot count 1 second in your head. you can hear gradation of roar sound to know exact moment where pig will charge. there is perfect distance where pig cannot hit you but you can still return to the pallet from missed cooldown. that is what I do as survivor when playing vs pig if they ever use ambush charge. at base-kit, ambush charge is just pathetic.
I think only way you can hit survivors is those weird add-on related to miss attack cooldown. I believe one of them is called syringe and the other is workshop geese. the idea is that you charge on purpose to barely miss survivor as they leave loop. As survivor attempts to go back to loop, your 50% missed attack cooldown catches the survivor off guard and you get hit by an m1. I don't know why it is designed this way, but the ironic best way to use pig's power as anti-loop is to miss ability.
How about this:
we ramp up Pigs ambush movement speed a bit, delay her roar a little bit, so that it doesn't startle survivors before she even starts moving and here is the kicker: give her aura reading while charging her ambush, as you often have no idea about the actual situation and kinda move in blind. Yes, I know that aura reading as basekit would be really strong, but I think it would be OK with Pigs ambush, as its such an impractical power and has a lot of hoops to jump through, it would not a scratched Myers peek and sneak.
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The only aspect about just blocking that I really hate is, when the survivors crouch behind you and due to FOV you don't realise what's going on. It makes you look ultra dumb and is as emersion breaking as it gets.
A survivor running out of a blind spot to block a doorway, so that their buddy gets away, though, that's one of the core aspects of good team play. Sure, I hate it in the spur of the moment when that happens, but that's a good thing.
There is one thing that we could talk about, though, and that's how survivors are completely unmovable objects for the killer. Bodyblocking has its place, but nearly all killers are towering monstrosities and entity-empowered beings, yet a flimsy Nea or Claudette can totally stop them in their place.
This is not a problem for the initial impact, but can lead to frustrating situations in chases when 3 peeps are shielding one survivor and they just stand their, keeping you in place. Maybe the killer could be able to shove survivors out of the way after 0.75s or something? Just a thought.
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The thing with adding perks as basekit is, that it totally dilutes the perk variety, as you can keep your cake while eating it. Most peeps are too hung up on clinging to the four strongest, most meta perks, or the small group of 6-8 meta perks, considering everything else as "garbage", as it isn't universally applicable and they don't get value out of that perks each and every game. But then some of this off-meta perks offer some nice QOL or just useful and fun abilities and peeps cry for making them basekit. As a general rule, if you deem a perk useful enough that you might want it to become basekit ... well, you could just equip it! Its that simple.
There is ONE exeption: I am strongly advocating to give killers a BBQ sort of aura reading as basekit. Most peeps totally underestimated the effect of old BBQ: every killer had it equipped for the blood points, but the aura reading showed oppertunities and peeled the killer off the hook. It promoted a much healthier playstyle then modern DBDs, so I would propose this as basekit:
"the killer earns +25% BP each time a survivor is hooked for the first time, but the counter only increases if all four survivors are still in the game. Upon hooking a survivor, the killer is shown the aura of a non-hooked survivor who is more then 24m away".
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It seems that there is no middle ground: either the survivors have perfect info on her status at all time, or spirit is overtuned due to her speed and pallets becomming a 50/50 coin toss. Hmm ... maybe if BHVR made her swoosh fade in and out, reliable at times, unreliable at others? A bit similar to Onryous visual fading.
But on a side note, this is a pattern that you can observe all over this game: survivors nearly always get way more info about the power then the killer, and I really hate this from a design standpoint. The killer very often hast just a binary (or triway) information: is the survivor infected or not, cursed or not, oroborossed or not, while the survivots see in crystal clear gradual increments, where they stand, with the killer just knowing when they finally reach the final stage. It removes a lot of the tactical side from the killer and relegates it to a guessing game or just a trivial time waster on the survivors side. Why does the Onryou not know how far her own curse on the survivors has progressed, so that when a survivor gets condemned its kinda a surprise out of the fair sky and 9/10 times you are too far away to get any value out of this; yes, this is kinda addressed (but badly) in the upcomming patch, but it still was designed this way. Same with the TVs, it could have been an interesting decision to see the TV that a survivor has to deliver the tape to and decided if its worth to go over there, but that was never the option.
Or Wesker, who is the host of Oroborus, he has no clue whats going on, same as the host and priestess of a magical super plague. Its actually kinda surprising that Trickster has his laceration meter or that Pig can see the survivors timers. The Singularity situation once again shows, that taking away the control of the killers powers and giving it to the survivors isn't fun. Some killers, like Wesker, have more to their kit then just their infection, and can still have a fun game without that, but there is a reason that only a very small number of people played Onryou this last half year and are trying to invest time into the Singularity. And Spirit is no longer a plug and play power that creates openings, its got a lot of the power given over to the survivors. You can still utilize the Spirits power, but its very frustrating to learn, with to little opportunity to actually gain some propper experience with it. And even then its pretty rough how far the scale has been tipped into the survivors favor. When in doubt, always take away from a killers power and give it to the survivors. My main is Pyramidhead and I am very good at landing shots with him, but daaaayum is he clunky with his sword stuck in the ground. It seems that BHVRs main method of "balancing" things is to make the killers side as user-unfriendly, clunky or frustrating as possible, and thats really sad at times.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Spirit is unfun, because they nerfed her with the directional audio, then nerfed her again when they super buffed the directional audio.
Spirit can still win games, but that's not what we are arguing. We're arguing that it's unfun for Spirit to have to deal with sound occlusion, and perks that delete survivor noises..... but survivors get 100% crystal clear directional audio that doesn't get affected by sound occlusion at all.
THIS! of course I was exaggerating, but I played her a lot the last two days and basically got no foot on the ground, because survivors have crystal clear info about everything I do. BTW, @GannTM told me a very long time ago that the Mother-Daughter-ring/dried cherry blossom combo was strong, but ultimately weakens your spirit game, because you never really learn to play her right, so I NEVER equip these two.
Yeah, I guess that she can still be very strong, but all strong killer abilities are gated behind clunky and cumbersome mechanics, while survivors have so often all the info. I find this one of the more frustrating aspects of the game. When you play a normal shooter or any other action oriented game, be careful, you might be blown away by how snappy the controls are :P
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@nars said:
Something strange happened with larry. On his PTB everyone was talking about how super duper fun and rewarding he was, and how EMPs just needed a few changes and he'd be perfect. Like seriously everyone was treating him like peak design like they were all gonna main him when he came out... then he did and all the sudden everyone hated him. What changed? he was no different from the PTB, why did everyone suddenly think he was a boring useless M1 killer with a gimmick?
He reached the Singularity of every killer concept, ie the wider, living-breathing player base, thats so big and diverse, with staggering amount of varying skill levels, that no predictions beyond this point can be made, like I said, a proper singularity event horizon.
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@KateMain86 said:
Tunneling continues to be a problem in DBD despite all that has been done to mitigate it. Killers still do it which shows what has been done isn't enough. All they do now is wait out the unhook protections. They are so good at it now its as if they have it perfectly timed in their mind. I have always been of the opinion that tunneling is one of the most detrimental things in this game to the survivor experience. It needs to be addressed in a severe manner. So much so that killers would not even consider doing it.
I suggest having the unhook protections persist within the terror radius. The current system is easily countered and took no time for it to happen. If a killer decides to tunnel an unhooked survivor, they will deal with the unhook protections whether they want to or not. This is a very small change to a very big problem and needs much more than this to ultimately remove it from the game. When a survivor feels like they have little to no chance to even play the game for being hard focused by the killer, the desire to continue playing the game will go away. Tunneling cannot continue to be the norm of the survivor experience. The game needs fundamental change before ultimately the worst parts of it become a thing of the past. Until that time comes, changes can be made to open the path forward to that new experience.
I guess some peeps are focusing on your solution of infinite protection while staying inside the terror radius not being well thought through, but you are adressing a valid point.
The meta shakeups and several deep mechanical changes of the past shook the players awake and forced them to play super efficient, right now we are at the situation were both, the survivor and the killer population at large at not only vaguely aware that splitting up on gens and 3-gen plus tunneling someone out asap are the strongest tactics, but they actively play that way. The genie is now out of the bottle and we won't be putting it bad by just saying "thats bad and we don't want DBD to be played like that".
Here is a possible way out:
1) give the killer old BBQs BP bonus at basekit, but only increase the counter for each survivor hooked while everyone is still in the game. This gives the killer a side objective besides tunneling someone ASAP.
2) give the killer a mini BBQ that shows them a single survivor that hasn't been hooked yet, after hooking a survivor, thus peeling them away from the hooks and sending them after someone fresh.
3) give the survivors some kind of debuff upon being hooked, but only as long as everyone is alive. Basically, don't make the killer sabotaging themselves and shooting themselves in the foot by keeping survivors alive, MAKE them WANT to keep everyone alive; at least until everyone has been hooked at least once.
3.5) maaaaaybe throw in a Grim Embrace like effect at basekit, once the forth survivor is hooked and anyone is still alive and block all gens for a while.
4) inverse the gen teamwork penalty, ie make gens go faster when survivors work on a gen together, but let gens repair slower when they split up. Splitting up would still be possible, but there wouldn't be 3 gens popping in union after the first chase, anymore. This whole thing would allow the game to go back to the good old times where it was "one survivor lost a chase and got hooked" - "a gen gets done" - "another survivor gets hooked" - "another gen gets done" - "the playing field shrinks ... uhhhh ... things get spicy now!!!1", instead of the modern "the first chase ends, 3 gens pop".
5) give all remaining survivors action speed bonuses for each dead teammate and 30s of undetectable. The killer could tunnel someone out, but this would strengthen the remaining survivors and rob the killer of all the Entities debuffs on the survivors and slim down their BP gains severely.
6) each month nerf the 5 most used perks in some numerical way, while buffing the 5 least played perks on both sides. Next month the last month changed perks wont count for the next round of nerfs/buffs. Thus we would get a living meta that ever evolves, with meta perks falling out of favor, old favorites coming back and new fun perks becoming suddenly eligible, until they are overplayed.
6.5) (a bit controversial) make only one OG chapter and one Licensed chapter per year plus one Community contest chapter. Reserve the last quarter of the year for game health.
In essence, we want to somehow give the killer a reason to go for more hooks and not tunnel someone out asap, while also give survivors a reason to not split up on gens and be out of the exit gates in 4mins. And we won't be reaching that goal by only aplying the stick in abundance, we also need some carots on both sides that promote the behaviour that lead to more fun games on both sides.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483997#Comment_3483997
Thank you for that. I’ve been away so haven’t been following updates.
Lol, don't get your hopes up, this was just a throwaway possible solution I came up in the spur of the moment. Actually dead survivors and finished gens should not resurrect, never ever
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@[Deleted User] said:
Well the devs stated they are working on a solution. No idea what it will be.
"When a 3 gen occurres, 1 random gen gets resurrected, all progress on any gen reverted and the 4 gens get newly distributed again, somewhat close to each other, but not 3 gening on their own."
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Awww, this is cute, and I mean it.
Your righteous anger would be well placed, if POP indeed worked like old pop, ie remove a flat percentage of progress from a gen, but after it's rework in 6.1 it only removes a percentile of the work already done! So 30% of a 99% gen is basically 30%, but if a gen were 50% done, then pop would only shave off 15%. Or 7,5% from a 25% done gen.
It's not a bad perk, but you need a gen with some progress, to really make it count. It can still come in clutch, but two rapid kicks could regress a gen instantly by 50% in the past, but that's not possible anymore.
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@JdoHybrid428 said:
It would take a lot of testing and balancing but I think it's an ok direction 👍. Definitely interesting
Thanks. Yeah, this is no out of the box patch, but more like a full on rework.
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So the only reason to run it would be he very limited aura reading effect? And you would get this by getting rid of one of your own Hex perks? But you couldn't use it to proc Pentimento or Hunted Grounds? And its also limited to 2 uses, when the max you could use it anyway were 3 times due to perk slots?
Sorry, but that would make the perk probably even worse. If you could snuff one of your own perk in order to expose all survivors in range, even then it would be extremely risky and situational, but just aura reading? Why not run NowhereToHide then and keep all your hexes?
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3483541#Comment_3483541
mft is op because otz only got a 3k vs a 4 mft team is a weird hill to die on lmao
Maybe frame it this way: even Otz, one of the most chill and mechanical knowledgeable killer mains is fed up with this perk in such a way, that he will only play Nurse till it gets changed.
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@Shroompy said:
There are plenty of Survivor techs that have been in the game for years that are barely complained about yet have much more of an impact. Here a few just off the top of my head:
Trap Buffering: At first was declared a bug which was fix, and was intentionally reintroduced in a later patch
Crouch Tech: Makes some killers glide right off of you instead of landing a hit because of crouching at a surface that is lower than the killer (Most notable killers are Billy, Blight and Demo)
Window Tech: Allows you to phase through the killer while theyre performing a vault. Al though difficult and inconsistent, can still very much throw the killer off
CJ Tech: Vaulting into a locker, window, or most commonly a pallet to make the killer pick up a downed Survivor thanks to overriding the prompt.
Vault Tech: While the Wraith or Sadako are cloaked/demanifested, spam vault at pallet to force them to uncloaked/manifest.
Stagger Cancelling: Using a prompt (most commonly vaults) to cancel a stagger from either a drop down or killer power
Phase Tech(?): Using a map, key, or the perk Clairvoyance grants you the ability to lose collision with the killer.
Input Buffer: Allows the person to complete an action that they otherwise wouldnt be able possible thanks to your action taking priority. Most commonly shown with The Doctor with vaulting or dropping a pallet despite being shocked. Can also be done by getting a fast vault by buffering the input at an odd angle.
Then there are several other killers who have insane techs, way more impactful than hug tech will ever be (Not all of these are as strong as hug tech, but they are still clearly unintended and can still be very impactful depending on the situation)
Input Buffering: Similar to Survivors, but can be used with some killer powers instead. Most notable being Trapper who can place traps in places he otherwise wouldnt be able to, causing the trap to be shoved into the ground (only works on specific spots)
Curving: Utilizing certain obstacles, allows killers who have some sort of collision mechanic to slide right off of said obstacle despite running directly into it. Most notable examples being Billy, Demo, and Blight
Flicking: Allows certain killers to ignore their camera restrictions while using their power. Most notable being Oni or Pyramid Head
FL Cancel: Allows killers to cancel their powers due to being blinded. Most notable example being Legion
Locker Bend(?): Allows the Dredge to exit a locker at a different angle. Some what inconsistent and can leave him stuck inside the locker instead.
Drag Tech: Allows the Nemesis to drag his tentacles hitbox with him while moving.
Urobend: As Wesker, dash while looking in a different direction than youre going and then colliding with a Survivor will cause you to go into the direction your looking instead of forward.
Un named Tech: Looking up or down has a variety of different benefits for certain killers. Most notable examples being Freddy who can place Snares through walls thanks to this or Bubba who can hug some surfaces much tighter.
And finally the most loved tech of all which is still possible in certain places... Skybilly: Allows the Hillbilly to reach new heights when colliding and dropping with some obstacles at a certain angle.
Brave Shroompy! What an awesome,balanced and exhaustive answer. Hurrah
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@Blueberry said:
Exhaustion perks have been massively overtuned since their inception and even after their nerfs. If you would never not run an exhaustion perk if your intention was winning that tells you they’re a problem. No set of perks should always be auto lock ins.
You could hypothetically double the exhaustion timer and you would still see an exhaustion perk on every single survivor, that should tell you how overtuned they are. What perk gets it’s cooldown doubled and is still ran on every single player? That shows they were never close to the “balanced” line to begin with.
Thats indeed a hot take ;) While you are not wrong about their strength, I think that exhaustion perks on their own are totally fine, especially in concept. They all provide survivors a means to avoid the killer one time with a burst of speed with varying activation conditions, before going into exhaustion mode and as survivors are generally slower then killers, this is a cool resource for survivors to use and thus is just a class of perks, that you should expect to verse, just like survivors should expect the killer to have slowdown or aura reading perks. And this is why so many of us think, that MFT is problematic, as it provides a long lasting haste effect without any real activation condition.
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I have been blinded by a flashbang while looking up once, but I was basically standing on the damn thing. I guess its proximity based and if you are standing from it, your poor, sensitive killer-eyes just are too close to the epicentre of the dreadful light. In every other case looking up saved me, though.
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Well, lets try this in a PTB as a side objective, just to see how this plays out and to collect data.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3482205#Comment_3482205
It's also good on Oni, I've seen a couple run it. I'm also going to assume it's a lot stronger on indoor maps because you can't see any of the two approach.
I once had Dead Man Switch equipped with Oni and RNG send us to Lerys. It was fun, whenever my power was up I just needed to take one sweep around the long tunnels and then just home in on the gens that turned white.
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Thanks, I will be taking notes here and try out Pentimento/Plaything Wesker tonight. Game has become so quick and fast paced, so let's see what the Wesker hype is all about.
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Also, one more QOL thing: if you aim your bio pods at an invalid placement, just let it plop up at the nearest available surface within 0,5m or so. We all know the pain of hunting for the right pixel and its really frustrating
And how about some fun synergies with Spies in the Shadow? When the Singularity runs Spies, 4/5/6 Ravens on the Map randomly will be replaced with shiny cyber ravens. If allerted, they will explode and infect the survivor who set them off.
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I feel that the problem has two main sides.
1) firing an EMP as an all-for-one-solution, there is little strategy behind it. If you had to chose between its three main effects, ie cleanse onself/cleanse a friend/disable a pod, then survivors had to strageize their usage of EMPs instead of just clustering up and burn through them. Part of the Singularities kit, the spreading of its corruption, is like non-existing because of this. What does it matter if you infect all four survivors sitting on a gen? One EMP and all four are cleansed on on top of it that bio pod will be taken out of the game.
This could be done pretty easy: default mode is the cleane oneself. Highlight another infected survivor: cleanse them. Highlight one bio pod: cleanse all bio pods in the vicinity with a pulse, you also set the pulse if you are not infected and don't highlight another survivor. Its hard to judge if this would make the Singularity way too strong and oppressive, but I know that THIS is the main reason, that he is so frustrating and unfun to play: survivors can undo ALL your hard work literally with the press of ONE button. BOOOM.
2) Disabled bio pods are out of the game for far too long. The reduction from 60s to 45s sound generous on paper, thats a whooping 25%! But in actual game play it doesn't matter if a pod is disabled for 45s, 60s or even 180s, that bio pod won't be used again, you either have to manually remove it and plant it anew or you will cycle through your bio pods while its on cool down. 45s is like an eternity in this game; do you remember how it was during the Eruption meta and where everyone claimed that 25s felt like an eternity? And they were right, because this game is so fast pace at the moment. The Singularity just can't effort to wait out 45s. So I would propose to reduce the timer to 25s (maybe 30s, but I really prefer 25s). Thats long enough to keep working on a gen and maybe finish it when the Singularity is busy somewhere else, but not to casually disable a pod and start working "just because". 25s is pleanty of time to heal or linger a bit longer at a strong loop, but it doesn't give you all the time in the world to conduct your business, it sets a real and honest timer to things.
As an added bonus, I think that the bio pods are really cumbersome to use and extremely passive. They shouldn't auto infect survivors, but maybe they could change colors if they detect something? I guess an outright notification would be very confusing, like pre-rework Spies in the Shadows, but a change of color would be really nice if they detect movement, signaling to the Singularity that something might warrant its attention over there. And yeah, the way even minor obstructions hinder the lock on is very frustrating and should be looked into. I also want to be able to quickly tap from one bio pod to the next, so give us some QOL life here. Oh! AND please, give us a noise notification when a bio pod gets disabled, its cut off from the network, so we should notice. As a trade off a disabled bio pod could black out and not transmit any picture at all, so you have no idea whats happening over there.
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@shelobster said:
I swear he's all I face. His chase music gives me a headache. Every one of them hc facecamps and/or tunnels. Has bad ping. Is just generally annoying to play against.
Worst of all, DBD Wesker has ruined the REAL Wesker for me.
Please killswitch him again. That was the best time I've had in DBD since Wesker came out.
I'll even take Skull Merchant.
I'm desperate.
The Singularity was BHVRs opportunity to break the Wesker Cycle, but easy EMPs and handholding destroyed that opening and The Singularity is now burned down, squandered. Its not "one good killer every 12 month", like the happy PTB content creators told us, now it will be at least 16 month, so back to Wesker it is.
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@luvcraft said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3475232#Comment_3475232
how does that work?
Its a bug or something. After closing off a vault via Bamboozle you just reeve your chainsaw, and if there is no pallet nearby, the survivor just goes down like magic, wriggling on the floor.
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Never play Pyramid Head without I Am All Ears, most often in combo with Lethal Pursuer; you might not always get a hit, but it often leads to some sneaky shots through walls and at the very least makes you aware of how survivors move after a vault, thus letting you learn to anticipate that. And its always fun to see someone crouching behind some low structure and then taking a pot shot. But what I appreciate nearly as much is how this helps you to track survivors through the darn corn fields, which are the bane of my existence. For real, on all the corn maps, survivors are pretty fond of taking a vault and then breeze off into the fields, never to be found again ... or so they think. This combo gives you like 8s of aura reading and this has gotten me so many downs on corn maps.
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Well, killers might have an instadown ability during Bloodlust 1, but gens flying like its nowones business with often three during the first chase ain't everyones cup of tea.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Can any mods help?
Give it a try in the feedback section of the forums? Eventually a mod might move this conversation over there, but you could also preemtively open a threat over there. You could also open a threat in the bug section, just in case its a bug; in any case other players with the same problem could throw their weight in by clicking that they got the same problem, thus getting this faster ackowledged.
Good luck :)
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480722#Comment_3480722
I mean you have to look at it from both perspectives. I am never that kind of player no matter which side I’m playing. I just do my best and when people are toxic I put it aside. It’s harder for me to deal with toxic killers, personally, because they can rob me of even being able to play the game. Even if survivors get gens done quickly during my killer games I’m still able to do a lot and have a fun time. I never take a “loss” to heart and only get upset if I’m pushed out of a game right away and that includes people disconnecting.
See, I am a killer main, but I also play a fair amount of survivor with my DBD friend group, I would say my split is 70/30, maybe 65/35 at times, so I know both sides pretty well. And a toxic killer can be pretty unfun and upsetting, but you have always your other survivors to fall back to, especially when you SWF and talk about whatever. And even getting thrown on the hook after a very tense chase, gives you a moment of respite.
The killer though is always in the action and on the edge, and when nothing is happening they know that this just gives the survivors more time to do gens. I am not playing this game as my job and I am not taking it THAT serious, but over the last 6 month the game has changed its face severely, and not for the better. Everything feels to competitive and balls to the walls. And everytime you try to take things a bit slower and more relaxed, you pay for that with insults and BM. I guess that some survivors are so on edge due to their last couple of games that the moment they meet a killer who shows weakness, they pounce on that as a vulture and vent of some steam themselves.
Most games are really at a breakneck speed and both sides can not effort too many doodling around or in case of the killer even one bigger mistake. If not 2 gens pop in the first chase, thats already a breath of respite for me, and if we are not down to 2 gens remaining 2min into the game, I feel like I am playing todlers. The fun games of old, where you chased and hooked and chased survivors, while slowly turning the map into a dead zone and one gen after the other was done, this games don't happen more then once per day anymore. And this is the result of several metas shifting and pushing the player base of both sides into the most efficient and hyper focused playstyles, least they instantly lose.
If you want to scroll up a little bit, I did a pretty big post just two after the one you replied to, where I delve more deeply into this problem. I really love DBD, but of late it has become really unfun, and that for both sides.
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@DavidHypnos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480673#Comment_3480673
I don’t know what kind of games you’ve been playing…
Well, sadly a lot of these. Either become the monster that everyone despises, or get "ggez"ed and pointed and laughed at for being such an inadequate killer. The amount of times where three gens popped, even after a pretty good chase without any blunders, is staggering, and each and every time it happens its so disheartening. Yes, the game isn't over when this happens, but three gens popping like INSTANTLY sucks the fun out of this match. Imagine getting downed by Bubba 30s into the game and then be brought to the basement, with him standing there and nodding at you. Yeah, in theory your friends could rescue you in a daring escape attempt, but in reality all prospect of fun just instantly left that trial for you in one fell stroke.
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@Peanits said:
I can chime in here.
Being afraid has nothing to do with it, it's more to do with time management and priorities. Large scale Killer reworks require a huge amount of time between designers, programmers, and QA. In order to do these types of large Killer reworks, we need to sacrifice on other things such as new features, perk balancing, etc. In a perfect world where we could squeeze as much as we want into a single update, these sorts of reworks would probably be more common, but sadly that is just not possible. Everything comes with a tradeoff.
As for why these sorts of reworks aren't the highest priority, this is where it gets a bit more complex. First off, we're at the point where there are 32 Killers in the game and counting. Even assuming that each Killer is played exactly equally, this would mean that each Killer is only seen in a little over 3% of all matches. Spending a significant amount of time on an update that only affects ~3% of matches is harder to justify when it means sacrificing new highly requested features or a bunch of perk updates which could impact all matches.
Beyond that, there is only so much we can do to make a Killer appealing to everyone. Different Killers focus on different playstyles. Some may be focused on setting traps, others on keeping Survivors busy, some on chases, and so on. These different playstyles can help fill different niches. A newer player who's having a hard time finding Survivors might be drawn to The Doctor, for example. Naturally, certain playstyles become more successful in high end matches and others fall out of favour. Experienced Survivors, for example, are less likely to stumble into a trap because they know what to look out for and can predict where the Killer may have placed them. Each power also has a different skill ceiling, so while some allow you to continue improving almost endlessly, others have an upper limit by virtue of their design.
Making each Killer equally strong at the highest skill levels is not the goal. Dead by Daylight is for everyone, not just the few at the very top. Often times these Killers are already doing pretty well in the vast majority of matches even if they fall out of favour in higher end matches. In these cases, buffing these Killers to the point where they are competitive in a high end match would cause them to be far too strong in the majority of matches. This is a net-negative change. While yes, it may be better for you, it makes things worse for the majority of players. Everyone's experience matters, not just those with more skill. In reality, it is not possible for every Killer to be equally viable at all skill levels.
Something else that we need to consider are the players who already enjoy these Killers the way they are. Legion is a perfect example of this. There's no shortage of suggestions to rework The Legion's power to make them stronger. Yet in spite of this, The Legion is consistently one of the most played Killers. While they might not be the strongest in high end matches, there is still a large crowd who enjoy them as is. That raises the question, is it worth reworking a Killer that many people already love to play just to make people who don't play them happy?
The Trapper is also a special case. He's the poster boy, front and center on all the artwork. He's the Killer you'll face and play during the tutorials, and he's unlocked by default. This is all very intentional; new players are naturally going to gravitate towards him. His power is very simple and easy to understand, and it tends to be fairly balanced in matches between newer players. He serves a special role of being a stepping stone toward learning the game. Because of this, his power is intentionally kept as simple and intuitive as possible (pick up a trap, set a trap), and he is intended to be fairly balanced in these sorts of games.
All this said, that doesn't mean we'll completely ignore these Killers. We do make smaller balance changes on a regular basis, and larger reworks are still planned to release from time to time. But we do need to keep everyone in mind when making these decisions and consider the role they currently fill in the game, as well as whether or not our time would be better spent on balance changes that could affect all players rather than a select few matches. It would be a different story if there were only a handful of Killers to choose from, but the roster is fairly big at this point. The goal isn't so much to make every last one of them perfect for everyone, it's to make sure that there's at last few options that appeal to everyone, regardless of how they play.
With all due respect, but the piece on Trapper sounds like a logical trap and not well though through. Why should makeing Trapper stronger increase his complexity for new players? And why should he only ever be a starting killer, shouldn't experienced killers go back for a round with the Trapper, without being hit with frustrating and counter productive design decisions?
Trapper would already be much more fun and viable to play, if all the maps had actually tall grass in places, that survivors routinely traverse. Or if all the traps started primed. Or if disabling the traps came with at least SOME risk for the survivors to become trapped and/or injured. Or if the traps at least had the same tone as the maps ground. Or not keeping taps on how many escape attempts survivors made this game and adjusting the next time someone steps into a trap, removing a bit of the RNG element. All of this wouldn't increase the complexety for a new killer starting out, but poor old Trapper wouldn't be the lol-cow and laughing stock of any seasoned survivor worth their salt. And this is some stuff that I came up one evening, just staring at my screen for 15min. Even more complex ideas like "the Entity teleporting traps around every 90s or once a gen is done, so that the Trapper doesnt have to traverse half the map" wouldn't actually increase the complexity for a new player, but actually give them an easier time trying to figure out, how to best set down this easy to understand power.
And if it truly IS a concise decision to make certain killers weaker then others, how about a real and honest warning somewhere? "Be adviced, that The Trapper is the staring killer and the one the longest under The Entities influence. He is close to being burned out and is the weakest killer on the roster. He is good to start out, but on your DBD journey, you should discover some of the exciting new killers, who are more eager to go into the frey, with their stronger and more interesting powers."
Trapper has the trappings (hehe) of the mastermind or thinking mans power, where you really want to try to outthink and outsmart your opposition, adding some zest to a mechanical less complex set of powers, but even that is sabotaged by so many aspects, like how easy traps are seen, how save they are disabled, how RNG often screws you over with two survivors escaping on their first try.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480096#Comment_3480096
Actually no. When regress meta was, killers still played scummy.
Gen rush exists, cause killer play that way in the first place. Tunneling and camping ruins the survivors ability to relax and just have fun.
This is a "you can't put the genie back into the bottle" type of situation. In the olden days gen rushing and focusing on gens existed, but mainly due to old DH and several other mechanics, survivors were so safe that they didn't had to and could just fool around. Then 6.1 and the gen kick meta turned this upside down and survivors adapted by hyper focusing on gens and especially splitting up. No more cute "working on a gen together while discussing yesterdays hot topics and shaking the head at your friend if they messed up a skill check", now it was splitting up on gens and making the killer pay dearly for every second that a chase lasted.
Over time Eruption and all the other gen kicking perks, and basically all slowdown perks, were nerfed and shut down, but now not only a select few "SWF - complike teams" used splitting up as the true meta (most effective tactic available), but basically everyone did.
And the same was happening on the killers side. Tunneling was always the most effective way, but it wasn't always necessary and it always came with the stigma of being a bad and unfun player, as a lot of killer players could do without. Same with 3-genning; 3 Gen was ALWAYS a very good tactic for killers, heck, when I started out and watched some "how to play killer" or "killer 101" tutorials, 3-genning was always mentioned as an advanced tactic to keep in mind and I sometimes did it myself. Not in the hardcore way, but I would look at the gen split at the start, decide at a good 3 gen and then chased the survivors off of those and went on my normal business. When I could defend the 3-gen, I would do so, but when I had to chase someone, I would prioritise that. Then the gen-hyper-focus-split-up meta happened, and a lot of killers adopted the 3-gen tactic, until it got noticed by nearly every survivor and got called out for being "the next unfun thing toxic killers do!!11". Well, and the addition of the Skull Merchant with her kit tailormade to holding a 3-gen, but not really winning chases, right in the aftermath of the Knight, even aggrevated the problem.
Now we are at the situation were both, the survivor and the killer population at large at not only vaguely aware that splitting up and 3-gen plus tunneling someone out asap are the strongest tactics, but they actively play that way. Like I said, the genie is now out of the bottle and you won't be putting it bad by just saying "thats bad and we don't want DBD to be played like that".
Here is a possible way out:
1) give the killer old BBQs BP bonus at basekit, but only increase the counter for each survivor hooked while everyone is still in the game. This gives the killer a side objective besides tunneling someone ASAP.
2) give the killer a mini BBQ that shows them a single survivor that hasn't been hooked yet, after hooking a survivor, thus peeling them away from the hooks and sending them after someone fresh.
3) give the survivors some kind of debuff upon being hooked, but only as long as everyone is alive. Basically, don't make the killer sabotaging themselves and shooting themselves in the foot by keeping survivors alive, MAKE them WANT to keep everyone alive; at least until everyone has been hooked at least once.
3.5) maaaaaybe throw in a Grim Embrace like effect at basekit, once the forth survivor is hooked and anyone is still alive and block all gens for a while.
4) inverse the gen teamwork penalty, ie make gens go faster when survivors work on a gen together, but let gens repair slower when they split up. Splitting p would still be possible, but there wouldn't be 3 gens popping in union after the first chase, anymore. This whole thing would allow the game to go back to the good old times where it was "one survivor lost a chase and got hooked" - "a gen gets done" - "another survivor gets hooked" - "another gen gets done" - "the playing field shrinks ... uhhhh ... things get spicy now!!!1"
5) give all remaining survivors action speed bonuses for each dead teammate and 30s of undetectable. The killer could tunnel someone out, but this would strengthen the remaining survivors and rob the killer of all the Entities debuffs on the survivors and slim down their BP gains severely.
6) each month nerf the 5 most used perks in some numerical way, while buffing the 5 least played perks on both sides. Next month the last month changed perks wont count for the next round of nerfs/buffs. Thus we would get a living meta that ever evolves, with meta perks falling out of favor, old favorites coming back and new fun perks becoming suddenly eligible, until they are overplayed.
6.5) (a bit controversial) make only one OG chapter and one Licensed chapter per year plus one Community contest chapter. Reserve the last quarter of the year for game health.
In essence, we want to somehow give the killer a reason to go for more hooks and not tunnel someone out asap, while also give survivors a reason to not split up on gens and be out of the exit gates in 4mins. And we won't be reaching that goal by only aplying the stick in abundance, we also need some carots on both sides that promote the behaviour that lead to more fun games on both sides.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3480490#Comment_3480490
Yeah, this is very easy (and wrong) thinking. Of course from the raw numbers, 3 Gens are 60% of the Objective.
However, the Survivors can do 3 Gens before the Killer even gets a Hook and they can still lose, despite already doing 60% of their Objective before the first Hook. Because not every Gen is the same, I would say that the last Gen usually takes more time than the other 4 combined. So saying that 1 Gen is 20% is way too easy and does not take into account how a game of DBD works.
Survivors are at their strongest at the start, but the longer the game goes, the stronger the Killer becomes (this is also why Slowdown is so popular, when you drag the game out long enough you have it easier as Killer). Ressources (aka Pallets) are gone, people are on Death Hook or even dead and other stuff.
And IMO it does not even matter if the Survivors complete 0, 1 or 4 Gens. Everything below 5 is a win for the Killer.
"Survivors are at their strongest at the start, but the longer the game goes, the stronger the Killer becomes (this is also why Slowdown is so popular, when you drag the game out long enough you have it easier as Killer). Ressources (aka Pallets) are gone, people are on Death Hook or even dead and other stuff."
But thats the problem with modern DBD: the game doesn't work that way anymore most of the time, because of the breakneck speed. In theory the game should be a teeth-gnashing event by the time the 5th gen pops, with a couple of survivors on death-hook or maybe even dead and a lot of pallets gone, making part of the map into dead zones.
In reality though, with the current hyper fokus on slamming gens, by the time the 5th gen pops, the killer either tunneled someone out, hooks the second and hopes for a mistake by the others, or the killer is just in his second chase, got his 3rd or 4th pallet out of the way, because everyone greeds like mad these days, and it doesn't matter if he downs and hooks this survivor, because 3 healthy gnats will just swarm the hook and escort their peer to the 99%ed exit gate and engage in a fun twerk parade, to show off their sick moves.
The players skills and tactics on both sides have totally outrun this games original mechanics and by now the roll of duct tape is not capable to hold everything together anymore.
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Yeah, right? This killer is a joke, right now.
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@Frogsplosion said:
What they should do is change breakable wall so that it breaks faster and damages survivors too close to the door.
Plus introduce the sledgehammer item for survivors that allows them to open up a breakable wall themselves and maybe even start regressing a gen without damaging it, if a killer is running kicking perks
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Both sides need their strongest stragegies be reigned in and neutered, so that the game can breath again. Right now its a pitched battle who can be more unfun faster: will the killer succeed to tunnel a survivor out of the game, before the 3 other split up survivors with juiced toolboxes manage to slam their gens like there is no tomorrow? Games like this run at a breakneck speed and are over before you blink, with no side feeling especially good about it, but most often just bitter.
Here is a way out:
1) give the killer old BBQs BP bonus at basekit, but only increase the counter for each survivor hooked while everyone is still in the game. This gives the killer a side objective besides tunneling someone ASAP.
2) give the killer a mini BBQ that shows them a single survivor that hasn't been hooked yet, after hooking a survivor, thus peeling them away from the hooks and after someone fresh.
3) give the survivors some kind of debuff upon being hooked, but only as long as everyone is alive. Basically, don't make the killer sabotaging themselves and shooting themselves in the foot by keeping survivors alive, MAKE them WANT to keep everyone alive; at least until everyone has been hooked at least once.
3.5) maaaaaybe throw in a Grim Embrace like effect at basekit, once the forth survivor is hooked and anyone is still alive and block all gens for a while.
4) inverse the gen teamwork penalty, ie make gens go faster when survivors work on a gen together, but let gens repair slower when they split up. Splitting p would still be possible, but there wouldn't be 3 gens popping in union after the first chase, anymore. This whole thing would allow the game to go back to the good old times where it was "one survivor lost a chase and got hooked" - "a gen gets done" - "another survivor gets hooked" - "another gen gets done" - "the playing field shrinks ... uhhhh ... things get spicy now!!!1"
5) give all remaining survivors action speed bonuses for each dead teammate. The killer could tunnel someone out, but this would strengthen the remaining survivors and rob the killer of all the Entities debuffs on the survivors and slim down their BP gains severely.
6) each month nerf the 5 most used perks in some numerical way, while buffing the 5 least played perks on both sides. Next month the last month changed perks wont count for the next round of nerfs/buffs. Thus we would get a living meta that ever evolves, with meta perks falling out of favor, old favorites coming back and new fun perks becoming suddenly eligible, until they are overplayed.
6.5) (a bit controversial) make only one OG chapter and one Licensed chapter per year plus one Community contest chapter. Reserve the last quarter of the year for game health.
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The answer is simply that you misheared, it "wasn't programmed to harm the crew", yet it did, so something went wrong ... like some alien, sentient, blue crystal.
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I remember how, when the EMP "nerfs" were announced I proclaimed that basically nothing would change and his power was still far too easily countered and that especially the timer on disabled pods was a sham and window dressing: on the surface a reduction of 25% downtime seems massive, but if a pod is out for 60s, 45s or 3mins is basically irrelevant, as you wont be using that pod again, you would either have to physically move over there and remove it manually or cycle through it with newer placed pods.
And EMPs are still to easy to come bye, because they print themselves. Multiple solutions have been offered, like stopping at 75% of the printing process or ever increasing the timer, each time an EMP is used, but not one of this ideas will make it into the game, so this killer will languish at the bottom and soon be forgotten. One of the greatest concepts, but sacrificed on the alter of safe gameplay and handholding.
Its a real shame as I really, really, REALLY like the Singularities concept, but he isn't even worth in the slightest to bother with. I will never understand why survivors need more info on the killers power then the killer, but in this case they also have all the agency of when the killer can even use his power, and that kills him for me.
And judging by the other peeps observations here, I wasn't too far off with my own predictions.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I actually do that as a survivor
I got ish to do people! Put me on the hook and let's call it a game. GGEZ
Me too, as I know that situation as he killer just too well.
If the killer wants to show mercy they can still do so from the middle of the map, but forcing them to bleed me out is never the way to go.
I once had a match where the last survivor was on the floor and I signaled to a hook and they did some wriggling on the floor. When I picked them up, they started wriggling, so I dropped them and they crawled into their corner. I shook my head and after 1min they came crawling out of their corner. I signaled toward a hook and after several meters picked them up again, but they again started wriggling and I guessed I dropped them shortly before wriggling out. They then proceeded to crawl circles around me, but wouldn't crawl under a hook.
Ugh. Later they called me toxic and tryhard. Well, maybe try hard, but some peeps think that they are some kind of anime hero "never giving up. Haaaaaaaa!"
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@brewingtea said:
I appreciate all of the free anniversary stuff, so I'm willing to put up with the dumb Invitation effects... but yeah, I agree. I can't wait until the game goes back to normal.
Unironically and non-spiteful, I vividly remember feeling the same one day into the first snowman event :D
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@Wampirita said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6AMGU1QD87OG/heroes-of-the-storm-diablo.gif
Butcher from Diablo
Traumatized many childhoods, would be either a great killer or if not a standalone killer, he'd make a great Oni skin
Oof! I like that :D We already have a chaining killer with Pinhead, but just imagine some beefy monstrocity like the Butcher chaining you to a loop so that you can't leave that loop and now you gotta run it perfectly or die.... with most seasoned survivors would just run it perfectly, thusly rendering the Butchers power ineffective. Sounds like we got winning concept, here ;D
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@Aven_Fallen said:
First of all, you dont crash and suddenly have a 24 hour ban. It starts with 1 minute, goes up to 5, 15 and then I dont even know how much. So you probably crashed at least 5 times.
But yeah, it is correct that there is a penalty and that you get it. If you dont play with a stable connection or dont manage to run the game stable, you should not play it. The other 4 players dont care if you DC because you ragequit or because you crashed, their game is ruined (or over if you were the Killer).
Try to fix the issue before trying to connect and end up just crashing all the time.
See? There is at least SOMETHING, that we agree on.
Most of the time my connection is stable and has no issues, but on some days (I assume when the company is doing some work on their infrastucture ... or they just want to save some money on technicans) it gets bad for a couple of hours and I can barely watch some youtube during that time without some buffering ... and well, I don't even try to play DBD when that happens, because ... well, you guessed it.
I remember that time where I ragequitted a couple of times till I got a 30min timeout and thought "dang ... you really overdid it ... better get your s* * * together!" and then I had a legit DC my next game and got a 2h ban :D That thaught me a lesson to this day. Now, when I get a legit DC, it will just throw me off for 1min (or until the issue resolves and the router reboots). So, circling back to OP: the DC-penalty ACTUALLY thaugh me not to DC on purpose. Profit? I think so.
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@TrueGuardian32 said:
After five games in a row of MFT+Hope. I just started running NOED. Has made my mental much happier.
Add Terminus into the mix, just to mess with all those Adrenalin users ^_-
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477736#Comment_3477736
I thought the same. He won nearly every match by a pretty wide berth and the ones where one person got out (that had MFT) I’m assuming he gave hatch. This definitely isn’t giving whatever he thinks it is.
Well, you guys always accuse me of being a biased and filthy killer main, and now I give you some unadulterated screenshots with some explainations attached, and you just ignore those explainations and just focus on the parts that you can spin for your own biased story. Talking about double standards ^_-
Originally it was doubted that there was any sizable number of instances, where killers were facing off against multiple MFTs in one lobby, and this I priovided by just casually sorting through my screenshot folder.
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Well, its really sad that you can't use them as the killer outside of the Halloween event. Its not THAT strong, but with the right setup it can really mess with survivors and catch them offguard. I will never forget that games I had with Bubba, where I started like 20m behind them, slid past a survivor, bumbed into a tree and then downed them with a chainsaw. I kinda understand that they want to limit this kind of replacement or gameplay altering power to events, but it kinda smells of double standard that survivors have no restrictions on their serums and can use them whenever they feel like it. Every now and then I will see a Claudette with some speedlines trailing behind her and get super confused, until I remember.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477703#Comment_3477703
I'm not gonna claim this is a sample size big enough to make any balancing conclusions, but I must admit I find hilarious how the fewer MfTs in the match, the harder you lost.
Of course this is not a sample size with any significance; as I said, I often rage quitted in the end game screen, when I lost really hard, instead of taking a screenshot, to that alone already skewered my personal data, but I definitely feel it when good loopers loop my around one of the more boring structures, like a car or some boxes and trashcans, and it feels like it takes ages to catch up to them, just to get rewarded with a greeded pallet ... and when 3 peeps are running MFT, it doesn't matter if I eventually might win the match, the matches quality was at its lowest point. Its like feeling physical pain, having to mindlessly run around the daisy 6 times, without any option to mindgame, knowing fully well that I don't even get this pallet out of the way if I break off NOW. Ugh.
And as I said, I basically see one MFT every game or at least more then every other game (probs something along every 0.84 games), and you definitely feel when someone is running this perk. A couple of games I was chasing someone and was just seeing their backlights and them running me through all kind of tilesets without every really catching up; took me a while to figure out what was happening and by now I will break chase with these survivors faster, if I catch up whats going on, but you definitely feel the +3%, when someone decides to just hold W.
You know this feeling when you are chasing a survivor, and like clockwork they beeline you to pallet after pallet, vault after vault, and you just know that they are running Windows of Opportunity (btw, thats not a rant about Windows being too strong or anything, but just how you can feel its effect), and its the same with MFT, when you just can't catch up to survivors. And unlike Windows, they are not depleating their ressources in the process, with MFT they can often just hold W and make good distance. I really hate this perk and loath the moment, when the bigger part of the survivor population catches on to how to use it the most effective.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
This is getting ridiculous. I want video proof. Not only of this rock scenario but shots of the end game screen showing "multiple survivors running made for this every game". I am still barely seeing this perk in my lobbies.
I don't make vids, because I am not streamer, but I got a couple of screenshots of the end game screens of my trials. I see one MFT basically every game and often see a couple. I havnt gotten into the habit of screenshotting every EGS, because I am sometimes too agitated and flustered and just click "next", so naturally most of the ones that I managed to screenshot are the ones I won ^_-
Source: trust me bro.
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While I think that this reaction is a bit over the top, this is exactly the stuff that a lot of mine mains feared when they talked about how dangerous +3% nearly unconditioned haste are in the right survivors hands.
Many loops are already borderline unbearable, due to the killers bigger hit box, and good survivors are already running any tileset absolutely perfectly and with max efficiency, making them basically untouchable with their normal 100% speed, the +3% renders them truly immortal with no time limit or anything.
And while running the killer for ages around a simple rock must be hilarious for that survivor, ita actually pretty damaging to the game at large, that stuff like that is even possible, especially with BL not kicking in.
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@Shroompy said:
You dont need to pop DH when the killer whiffs the attack, you just gotta make the killer whiff while you have it equiped
So best couple it with MFT
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3477430#Comment_3477430
Ah, the old argument. Killers are fluffy little beans and it is impossible that they can be dicks as well. Must have been a group of toxic Survivors in the previous match.
I guess that you didn't read my entire post, because it was too long. So sad.