Adjatha
Adjatha
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@WesCravenFan said:
META stands for "Most Effective Tactic Available"
So by definition, there is always a meta.
That's a backronym, an acronym created after the fact to help make a word or concept more digestible.
"Meta" is a shortening of "metagaming," which refers to not playing the game itself, but to step back and analyze how the game works and creating a strategy from there. A good example is the Prisoner's Dilemma. If you play the game, what seems like the good choice is to select the 'kind' option. However, when you metagame the proposition, the logical choice is to always select the 'unkind' option and just hope the other guy choses the kind one.
In the context of video or card games, Meta later came to simply be "whatever gets used the most," which is not exactly what the concept really means, but it's close enough for all practical purposes. For DbD, though, you can actually say (to an extent) that the meta perks ARE metagame choices, because they may not provide the best or most reasonable selections for any individual game, but based on the core rules of the game and average game flow, meta perks tend to bend or break typical matches, especially when used in concert with one another (stacking slowdown or stacking second chances, for example).
As to the core question:
- If you think Borrowed Time is "dead" or "got worse in any way," you aren't reading the room. It was the 2nd best, most-used survivor perk before and it only got WAY WAY stronger. There's a pretty huge difference between 5 seconds of invulnerability and speed boost versus 15 seconds. It's WELL worth a perk slot on everybody who plans on doing any rescues ever.
- OTR is just a free "get out of jail" card, both for if your Solo Q team mates haven't taken Borrowed Time (for some insane reason), if you Kobe/Deliverance, or if you just want a million years of invulnerability/undetectability to reset your status freely.
- Speaking of, Deliverance was absurd before and it wasn't touched at all, so it's still absurd. If you're saving survivors, this (potentially with OTR) will save you.
- Kindred. If you're Solo Q and you're not running Kindred, I have no sympathy for you.
- Saboteur was a somewhat 'team only' perk before, but now that you can see Scourge Hooks? Forget about it. You know for absolute certain WHERE the killer will be doing to and being able to take that down is huge. At worst, you only negate one or two of the killer's perks and spare your gens/status the scourge effect. Sometimes, you end up getting a save from the sabo, and that means the chase starts all over, giving your team that much more time to pop gens.
- Circle of Healing is the absolute best healing perk in the game. Every game I've played since it came out, there has been at least 1 CoH. Even after THREE nerfs, it is STILL the best healing perk in the game. Now that Self-Care is extra nerfed (for some absurd reason), CoH is even MORE the best. The only excuses to not bring CoH are: you don't want to Pay-To-Win by buying Mikaela, or your SWF team already is bringing a CoH.
- And, of course, only Dead Hard got a tap, so all the other Endurance Perks are exactly the same as they've always been.
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Boy, sure is a sudden shift, from survivors complaining about 5 minutes or more queue times.
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Why on earth are you running Head On instead of Borrowed Time, Kindred, or ANY exhaustion perk?
I don't know what you're going for, but Quick & Quiet + Head On looks more like you wanted to spam locker stuns instead of actually doing something useful, like surviving.
That wouldn't necessarily fix the 'camped on first hook' problem, but I mean come on. That's not a build to run unless you're SWF Comms to set up locker saves.
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Yeah, you're right.
They won't do anything about it, and I'm sure dozens of people will come out of the woodwork to shout you down, but you're 100% right.
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Glad you're enjoying it, but who's getting 4ks with 0 gens finished? Killers going up against brand-new players?
This game started off as "Hide and Seek" and turned into "Tag" as survivors got more and more buffs and perks that let them evade killers for potentially the entire game. While I can just straight up tell you "you will always go down in a chase" it just flat-out not true, I'm glad that some of the Hide And Go Seek is coming back.
Even if it means these forums get flooded by people making fake accounts to spam "survivor is dead!" posts instead of literally trying any kind of different build.
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@VEXEnzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080369#Comment_3080369
For a simple reason... It just a perk that you use IF you go on hook. Also is kinda "lame". Just because people don't run it does not mean it's worthless. People that use is because they are tired of people not knowing what to do because again they don't have any idea of where everyone is. Kindred is a perk that is like "Ok im tired of my solo mates not knowing what's going on so Imma waste my perk slot for it". Perks should have a play style in mind and not be used to fix coms issues that the game do not solve
Except, it's an information perk. That's not a wasted slot. That's game info.
The idea that you're wasting a slot on Kindred is exactly the problem with the solo survivor mindset. The idea that you should get 4 slots to help you go through gens, heal up, stay safe, or escape chases is the SWF meta BECAUSE they get Kindred (and a dozen other info perks) for free by using comms.
It's why Solo will NEVER be even with SWF. They just straight-up get more perks than their non-grouped counterparts.
Kindred is a GOOD perk. People SHOULD use it. Killers don't WANT to have to use Corrupt Intervention, but the game randomly splits survivors up four ways and puts each of them right on a generator at the start. That sucks, but there's a perk specifically to help mitigate it. Solo don't get the tons of free info SWF gets, but there are perks for that.
It's not that Kindred should be basekit, it's that SOMETHING should be done about SWF Comms other than the devs sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it isn't players using third-party software to gain an unfair advantage that the rest of the player base doesn't get.
But, we all know how that turns out.
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It's funny how many of the meta survivor perks got reworked to be the same or better than they were.
And considering how much Sky-Is-Falling there is over the 3-4 that actually ARE worse than they used to be, just imagine if ALL the meta survivor perks had been nerfed (like how all of the killer meta perks got treated)
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I have not seen even ONE survivor run Kindred. It is super helpful to everyone not on comms, so either I am only playing against SWF, or the Solo Q players are extremely bad at running useful (but not broken) perks.
Why should it be base-kit, if people don't even run it in the first place?
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Every game has had the survivors finish all 5 gens. By the time I get enough hooks to kill somebody, the doors are open. Then, I usually get one last kill because overconfident survivors screw around instead of just leaving.
So, it's still an overwhelmingly strong survivor-performance, with a 2k only through aggressive mis-play.
All the best killer perks are dead, but at least around 4 survivor crutches died too. So, it's nice seeing people tear out their hair and gnash their teeth over it. Almost worth losing BBQ.
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I see CoH every single game. Haven't seen Self-Care even once.
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My queue times have tripled!
... from 20 seconds to a full 60!
It's nothing. I would gladly wait 3 minutes every time if it meant I wasn't matched up against literally brand-new players or hyper-pro comp teams. It always feels like one or the other, like MMR's just a coin flip.
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Pyramid Head's cages let him negate Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time. Now, he can only cage you if YOU go into his torment trails. He can't put torment on you.
But you would not BELIEVE the level of whining and the sheer number of posts about how BROKEN and OP Pyramid Head's cages were when he first came out.
A feature that is 100% in the hands of survivors, and all it does it prevent them from using two super-overused perks.
And, after all the whining, PH got nerfed like four times in a row. To satisfy the waves of whining survivors who refused to, you know, NOT get tormented (or even just to run other perks).
Now, with the perks themselves getting weaker? There's no single killer they can protest to get nerfed. So it's a "give us back our crutch perks or we quit." But make no mistake, it's just the PH situation all over again. People will whine endlessly before they try to do literally anything differently that what they've been doing in the past.
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BT was the second most-used survivor perk and it got 50% longer AND 7% move speed for 15 seconds. It is, in every way, better than it was. There is zero reason why every survivor doesn't run it. The only meta perk that become MORE meta.
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Don't worry, they'll take a look at her in the Mid-Chapter!
... she was released HOW many months ago?
Oh, well... uh... she's be looked at in SOME mid-chapter.
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If you can't play without a specific perk, either that perk is completely OP or there is some systemic game failure.
Something tells me "survivors making any noise at all" isn't a game failure.
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21 deaths out of a possible 40, and that's with somebody intentionally making your group worse and another who valued harassment more than his victory.
Sounds about average. Doesn't seem like your solo experience has been as Doom & Gloom as many people are preaching.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3069926#Comment_3069926
Then fix the mist instead of straight up removing the offerings, jeez.
They've nerfed it year after year. Why do you think they're going to ever actually bring it back?
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Don't know why they didn't remove the Dark Mist offerings while they were at it. They reduced the mist so much, even with max offerings, it's completely imperceptible. They're purely vestigial and wastes of bp.
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Don't worry! They'll re-asses her for the Mid-chapter patch!
Oh wait, when was she released? March 8th? So over four months ago? And she hasn't been touched since release?
Well, I guess they didn't say WHICH Mid-Chapter patch!
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The problem with perks like Distressing or Thrill of the Hunt is that they don't actually give you bonus BP to that category. They increase the points you get from normal events, which just gets you to the normal cap faster (8,000 before, 10,000 now).
So, you can use Thrill of the hunt and get to max chase super quickly (+50% if none of your totems get touched). What you're not getting is +8000 on top of the 8000 from chasing. That's why BBQ was so good and all the others suck on ice. BBQ was actual bonus points.
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And the survivors bring 1 CoH, and their whole deal completely falls apart.
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The Iron Will nerf is long overdue. They massively buffed Iron Will to completely negate Spirit as a killer, then they nerfed Spirit on top of that, without undoing Iron Will.
No one survivor perk should totally invalidate a killer's power.
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Freddy was fine. They massively over-nerfed him and killed off any reason to bother playing him.
And this is after they'd totally reworked his power because original Freddy was the actual, factual, weakest killer in the game.
All they have to do to fix the majority of the totally unplayable killer cast is to roll back most or all of the nerfs they put in place.
It would be so simple. And YET.
If they'd rather make addons that effectively negate Hillbilly's Overheat rather than just admit that Overheat was an idiotic idea in the first place and remove it completely, they'll NEVER admit they killed off around a dozen characters for no reason other than that they're terrible at balancing things.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066346#Comment_3066346
All Legions run Thana because they feel like they need to, right?
If we follow BT logic, that means it needs a buff as well as a weaker version included as basekit :)
This guy gets it
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It will, in fact, by exactly 10% better, not ten times better.
People acting like Thanataphobia just magically appeared from nowhere and that Legion hasn't been running it for years.
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No one perk should completely supersede killer powers, and that includes Stealth.
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1 out of 10.
Sadako was a killer designed by a person who has never played as a killer before and who holds a grudge against all killer players.
The fact that she was MASSIVELY buffed from her PTR version and she STILL sucks super hard? It's an embarrassment.
I don't know who took the lead on that one, but they need to boot his or her ass directly off the team asap.
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The best way to do Hexes was, and still is:
- limit hex perks to 1 per build
- the hex lights up all five totems
- every totem the survivors cleans/bless weakens the perk by 1/5th
- redo every hex perk that only exists to protect other hexes or doesn't have numbers that can be dialed down
At this point, the only hex worth using is Devour Hope + Undying. NOED might still be good for one down at end game, but its long-term value is gone. None of the others provide a buff even remotely useful enough to justify being able to be turned off in the first 15 seconds of a match.
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"Artist shouldn't have access to Dead Man's Switch!"
"Leatherface shouldn't have access to Insidious!"
"Freddy shouldn't have access to Pop Goes the Weasel!"
"Spirit shouldn't have access to Stridor!"
"Pinhead shouldn't have access to Hoarder!"
"Doctor shouldn't have access to Distressing!"
... and so on and so on and so on, ad nauseum.
It is GOOD that some perks work better on some killers than others. It means that killer perk lists actually vary it up. Unlike the Survivor Meta of "always take 4 of the 6 best perks every game, against every killer, and do extremely well every time"
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This is exactly the problem that killer-specific MMR was SUPPOSED to fix: get a new killer and play easier games to have a chance to learn how they work.
UNFORTUNATELY, that was a lie.
How it actually works is that a killer you have played 0 games with gets a starting MMR score based on the scores of your other killers. Which means you end up playing a brand new killer against way better survivors and it is incredibly discouraging. Add on that MMR doesn't fall away nearly fast enough and you run into situations where you buy a new killer, get zero kills in 10+ games, and never way to play that character ever again.
And BHVR doesn't care because they already got your money.
So, we all await the era of bots. Sometimes 6 to 12 months from now.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3063498#Comment_3063498
How do you know they have played less? They could be using a character they haven’t bothered to prestige. It’s like Nancy for me. She is still level one because I just don’t play her but I dust her off now and then for a daily.
Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the value next to their name was the total sum of all their prestige'd characters
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How poorly designed Plague's puke hits are handled.
It looks like a flamethrower, but has invisible chunks in the stream and only the invisible chunks count. Terrible design.
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If you're prestige 0 and you're playing against people who are prestige 100, they objectively have spent way more time playing the game than you.
Even if they're not great at the game, they have a monumental advantage over the newer player. And you SHOULD complain if you get matched up against people with thousands of hours in the game. Keeping the disparity secret doesn't mean the problem vanishes. It just obscures the reason behind the imbalance.
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Sadly, there is no option to disable chat from the options screen. The best you can do is "minimize" it with the little arrows in the End Game screen.
I've had exactly two positive post-game chat experiences over the course of 500 hours. That is a really bad return on investment.
Do yourselves a favor: disable chat (in the limited way you can) and never turn it back on. The "team vs 1" dynamic inevitably leads to "pile onto that other guy and just dump all over them"
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Killers that are difficult to play need to have outrageously good powers or no one will play them.
Look at Freddy or Deathslinger. Both were easy to play with moderately useful powers. They nerfed both to be way harder to play without actually improving their powers in any way, so nobody plays them anymore.
Nurse's power is fine. As is Blight. Anybody who thinks those two "arent' that hard to play" has never touched them in their lives.
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Have hooked survivors repair gens way slower (and unhooked ones repair faster), so the killer isn't significantly penalized for locking down one guy instead of leaving to go chase everybody else.
Easy Peasy.
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The NOED aura-effect should be base with all Boon totems too.
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If you don't like the direction Balance Team decisions are going, you SHOULD quit.
I know I did.
In my case, it was the continual parade of nerfing low-tier killers with no compensating adjustments. Blindly knocking down characters without consideration to how massively unfun (and unsuccessful) they become told me all I needed to know about Balance Team priorities. They don't care if a given killer becomes unplayable. And when I spend money on a character, having that stripped away without warning, justification, or compensation rankles a bit too much to just swallow.
I bother coming back to this forum in the (fading) hope that some day the wildly over-reaching nerfs will be re-assessed and the characters I bought will be restored to a playable incarnation. But you know what? Quitting DbD gave me a chance to play FF14 and it's been fantastic. So, in a sense, I'm grateful for the ham-fisted, inexpert approach they've been taking.
So, go for it. If this is just a step too far, cut the cord. And, if your find the recent changes too tough to swallow, I've got a great alternate game you should try instead.
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BT was meta before and it's way better now. I don't expect THAT much of a shake-up.
Maybe one person per team brings Saboteur, just to hard-counter any scourge hook build.
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Considering that the only hex that is actually powerful any more is Devour Hope, and that requires you to use a SECOND perk slot on Undying so it doesn't vanish in the first 30 seconds of the game:
Yes. Snuffing boons should be default. If you want, go ahead and buff boon auras back up to 32m, like it was when they first released.
Team-wide powers that you only need one survivor to bring is not okay on an endless supply. And shrinking the already too-small killer perk options is the worst possible solution they could've come up with
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Removing the tokens from BBQ was the single worst idea they had in this perk overhaul. There is now zero reason why you won't just get the same guy multi-hooked every time.
If you don't like tunneling, be sure you register your complaints with the Devs. BBQ tokens gotta be basekit (or at least come back to the perk).
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Doctor has a very serious power problem, just like Plague: His power is SUPER inconsistent. It's why you don't see him very often.
The issue is "Validation." When you use the power, it SHOULD lock down a survivor from performing various actions. In actuality, what happens is: you shock, they scream, they have a second or two, and THEN the power prevents them from performing actions. It's super inconsistent and doesn't actually lock them down when the game tells you it should lock them down.
Rather than fixing validation for Doc, though, we got Validation for Pallets and Dead Hard. Even Gen grabs got a (bad) band-aid instead of proper validation.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059401#Comment_3059401
Dead Hard was nerfed significantly, so yes, it's 5 nerfed Meta Perks.
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Significant Buffs to Killer perks
- Overcharge - Added 75% - 200% regression speed. (200% is the exact same speed the most used Killer slowdown perk, Hex Ruin, has. Plus, you can't get rid of Overcharge by destroying a hex totem. This is a significant buff). This is definitely a meta perk.
- Lethal Pursuer - Already a great perk. 2 extra seconds is a significant buff. This is definitely a meta perk.
- Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain - Amazing Buff. This will probably end up being a meta perk.
- Thanatophobia - Amazing buff. This will be a meta perk. (But to be honest, this one will probably get nerfed).
- Eruption - I've always been a fan of Eruption so maybe I'm biased but this buff will probably put it in meta territory also. (Again, I'm biased and run Eruption alot already)
Insignificant Buffs to Killer perks
- Knock-Out - Not sure why this was buffed, seems like a perk to annoy survivors with.
- Coulrophobia - Waste of time Buff
- Dark Devotion - It will be something I use once in a while. Really just niche.
- Jolt - This could be a nasty buff but I'm not sure (I definitely see potential and have used Jolt before). I'll put it into Insignificant.
- Monstrous Shrine - This is like the Saboteur change, seems mostly useless. However, this is a much better buff than the one to Saboteur, which is really a waste of time buff.
Lethal Pursuer got something that helps OTHER perks. Does it have a use now? Maybe! Is this another case of "this is a killer perk that needs a second perk to work correctly"? SURE IS! Boy, there's so many of those things, it's getting exhausting.
Thanataphobia went up by 0.5% per stack. That is NOTHING. How are so many survivor players losing their minds over a maximum of a 2% action speed penalty? The only killers who use Thanataphobia are the ones who can very quickly spread damage around (Plague, Legion). For everybody else, the survivors heal up way too quickly for those penalties to stay in place. This is N O T H I N G
Overcharge gained a regression feature, but that got immediately nerfed. Currently, it is WORSE than not using it if you're not running Call of Brine with it. You flat-out get less regression. AND they didn't fix the core problem of "the skill check doesn't actually stop survivors from tapping gens like it was originally designed to." This had the most promise and got gutted. It's trash.
But these are all weak perks that were buffed to try to get people to use them. Survivors got those too. I was just talking about meta perk changes. Of which, Killers got mega-shafted, while Survivors got a handful of hits, some gentle reworks, and a hilariously over-generous buff (for no reason).
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3059325#Comment_3059325
I think the issue is that the developer did exactly what you are saying for Killers but didn't do the same for Survivors.
For survivors, they nerfed 6 meta perks and only buffed 1 perk to meta levels. That's a 5 meta perk deficit on the survivor side.
Then they did a bunch of useless buffs to a bunch of survivor perks, for example: Calm Spirit, Saboteur, Pharmacy, Sole Survivor, No One Left Behind, Dark Sense, Hope, Overzealous and Lightweight (I'm iffy on if this will change the usage of this perk because of Iron Will). That's 7 perks that survivors will continue using as they did before.
They did some okayish buffs to survivor perks that might increase their usage slightly: We're Going to Live Forever (This might be a useless buff since you have to get tokens before you can use it's special ability), Tenacity, Deja Vu, Distortion, Lucky Break and Botany Knowledge
Then you have the single meta perk buff: Off the Record.
Just to be clear:
They nerfed four survivor meta perks: Iron Will, Spine Chill, Self-Care, Decisive Strike. These perks all objectively got weaker.
They reworked two survivor meta perk: Dead Hard and WGLF. DH still does what it originally did, in the same window. It now has a trade-off: you don't get immediate distance for free, but if you can time it right, you get way MORE distance than before from the Endurance hit. This is not an objective nerf. WGLF lost the BP boost but now it applies Endurance to anyone you bring up from downed. This completely changes how the perk gets used and provides teams a reliable method of handing out Endurance when most needed. Again, a nerf, but not an objective nerf, since you're gaining something in the trade-off
They buffed one survivor meta perk: Borrowed Time. It went from 10 seconds of endurance to 15 seconds + 7% speed boost. It's objectively better. It's also 3x as good as the default endurance they gave everyone, so it's still very much a meta perk. There was no nerf or rework or rebalance - it just got way, WAY better.
Meanwhile, SEVEN killer meta perks got flat nerfed. BBQ, Ruin, Pop, Corrupt, Tinkerer, NOED, Pain Resonance. Each of these lost half of their abilities or numbers or applications or otherwise. They all objectively got worse. Some so much so that they're not 100% vestigial. Monstrous Shrine has more application than some of these.
Actually, I'm going to take that up to Eight, because they 'buffed' Overcharge, then nerfed it right back down to uselessness in a couple of weeks. Getting something nice and having it taken away from you immediately is a pretty nasty maneuver.
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@Someissues said:
someone send me link to the patch notes tarts coming i cant find it anywhere
https://deadbydaylight.com/news
i check the main website its not there either, why ppl said legion will be strong after post patch?
Legion will be able to effectively negate Dead Hard.
Any time a meta survivor perk gets any kind of counter-play, people act like the sky is falling. And if enough people get in on the chant, the Devs will nerf the killer.
"Pyramid Head can totally NEGATE Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time! SUPER OP! GAME'S DEAD!"
Annnnnnnd they nerfed PH like three times to soothe the survivor panic, despite the fact that he can't force you to get Tormented and he can't cage you unless you let him. So we see how many Pyramid Heads are playing.
Same deal with Legion. If they can get enough people to parrot the panic, the killer will get their latest round of undeserved, over-reaching nerfs. It's what people are actively trying to do to Nurse these days. It's really just a question of volume.
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Meta and most-used perks get changed and nerfed
Except Borrowed Time.
The 2nd most-used perk in the game gets a massive buff.
Oooooookay.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3058235#Comment_3058235
Just make it 100% to 300%. Better than Brine if the survivors ignore it, worse if they hover around it.
This.
Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Sprint Burst all give the same effective use: get distance in a chase. How they actually operate varies, making each perk have its own niche.
That' what Overcharge and Call of Brine ought to be. One super charges regression for a short while, the other builds up to a higher value if ignored. If the interaction between the two was too strong, they simply shouldn't work together, like how exhaustion perks don't work together. Far better for each perk to be able to stand on its own instead of requiring 1-2 OTHER perks just to get any value out of a massively over-nerfed one.
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The current one is 0.5 seconds. If it works fine for you now, it'll work fine for you after the change.
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@[Deleted User] said:
so suggest a chance
a passive 100% perma regression with no counterplay is not a balanced perk
Every 4 seconds of regression is 1 second of survivors working on a gen. A nearly-finished generator would take 6 minutes to get back to 0.
That's what 100% means. 6 minutes to undo 90 seconds of work.
The counter-play is to DO GENERATORS
PLUS, generators that are regressing can't be kicked, which means if you brought Non-Hex: Ruin, you couldn't bring Overcharge, Call of Brine, Dragon's Grip, or any of the other dozen "kick a gen" perks, all of which are needed for active regression.
And if one of your team happens to die for any reason? Poof: the perk disappears! Name another perk that turns itself off when one survivor dies, to make the game easier for the remaining survivors.