AChaoticKiller
AChaoticKiller
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@DarkMagik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1908194#Comment_1908194
In the change i propesed,they gain the Oblivious Status Effect & The Incapacitated Effect,which means they cant do Gens until they Cleanse
Why? all she needs is easier access to her pools not this, i would actually argue this is worse since they will just out cleanse her and reset the pools. Also this shouldn't make survivors oblivious her power already makes them easy to find and broken, again the only issue with plague has been her pools of devotion being out of the way.
sure you can use your power but you can't infect objects, objects only stay infected for 35 seconds so they can easily avoid being infected and until they are found. this wouldn't slow survivors much at all it will just make them speed cleanse thus resetting the pools forcing you into your power so you can't infect anything.
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@DarkMagik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1908175#Comment_1908175
Its take 80 Seconds to finish a Gen & it takes about 60 Seconds to be Infected.
50 seconds from 0% infected to 100% and that doesn't matter at all, survivors will choose to finish the gen then heal.
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What she needs is easier access to her corrupt pools of devotion as well as more consistive hits but we can change one of those. I think this would be a lot better for her.
Plague changes:
Corrupted pools of devotion within 20 meters can be used from a distance however it will halve the duration corrupt purge lasts (30 seconds instead of 60). Plague is massively slowed when doing this, the interaction lasts twice the amount of time it takes to interact with a pool of devotion (1 second to 2 seconds). These numbers are affected by addons that decrease or increase the amount of time you have in corrupt purge as well as the interaction with pools.
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@DarkMagik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646346#Comment_1646346
well then by your logic survivors will be constantly cleansing which means they are not doing gens.Secondly they stay injured once they cleanse which could mean more time wasted healing just to be infected again.
that sounds good in theory but the cleansing time is so fast and infected objects don't stay infected long.
Also that is assuming they are not being optimal which is finishing gens and cleansing afterward.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903780#Comment_1903780
BBQ is just ridiculous on any killer, easily abused with very little counterplay. "just get in a locker" assuming one is nearby. "Gen blocking" also assuming a gen is nearby or that the killer is hooking someone with gen aura line of sight. It's OP, the bp alone make it worth please DEV's put the bp buff on another perk that isn't already a staple in most killers kits.
bbq is balanced you have 3 counters go into a locker, hide behind a gen, or be close enough to the hook. Not to mention even if you are seen you can fake out the killer by switching directions which is pretty easy since the time you are revealed is so short. you may say there isn't but yes there is counter play and a lot of it, the only time you can't really avoid being seen is just outside the 40 meter range any other time you have options to avoid the killer and hide from the aura.
Also the info isn't OP, you have to be either huntress or a fast killer is properly capitalize on it and even then just do good in the chase. The only people who think bbq is OP are the ones who suck in chases and the ones who are too lazy to use one of 3 more like 4 ways to avoid bbq/play around bbq then complain that the counters don't work when they don't even use them.
edit: also lockers are everywhere on most maps and if your not on a gen what are you doing? the only time you shouldn't be on a gen or next to one is when you are going for the save in which case bbq can't reveal you within 40 meters or you just completed a gen and are finding another one.
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It really isn't hard to get rbt's off like at all if the killer doesn't use tampered timer, even with an extra box you can easily get it off.
I feel that this just lessens her stalling by making it easier to get them off faster, remember jigsaw boxs take time to interact with so removing one makes it way faster to check all the boxs. her power should not reliably kill survivors with the RBT's it should be more reliable when it comes to stalling.
If you plan on reducing the timer so she gets more kills that isn't a good idea imo since it would mean you have to tunnel to get that to work out and also survivors won't like it. I know gens will reduce the timer but there are only 5 gens and at most 3 gens will go off in the beginning of the game and mid way only 1-2 gens get done at a time. This means that this will most of the time barely affect the survivor or it will completely screw them over which isn't fair since it is out of their control.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906253#Comment_1906253
Keep Clown out of your mouth if you think he is weak.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906252#Comment_1906252
Look at Trapper, the mere threat of the unknown can get you hits and downs in cetain areas. I refuse to agree with your bull-like natured opinion. The Suvivors will not know that the Trap is there and may not feel confident to commiting to actually safe areas due to it. 20m from the Trap not the trigger radius, so that 'flaw' you pointed out is not real. Maybe that could be improved upon slightly, but the general direction of the concept is the correct way to take her. There is honestly no point in continuing our argument, we both refuse to see eye to eye on this. And since you think Hag is fine as she is, that really makes me not wanna listen to you on a topic about a rework. In the future i'd suggest stay steer clear of typing on my posts, since you don't offer any pleasant dialogue. Like I said, constructive critisicm is welcome, anything like the way you interact isn't.
"Keep Clown out of your mouth if you think he is weak." cool i'll move on as i should have and let these posts die as i should have.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906230#Comment_1906230
To each their own, but no way can she remain the way she is. Also, it's good to note that not every killer is made to be insanely strong, having something that increases fun and interaction is great for the game too. However, I do disagree that she would be weak in this concept.
if she can only be on one survivor at once which this would turn her into there isn't a reason to not play a better killer at that like clown or deathslinger. yes im saying she would be weaker than clown.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906230#Comment_1906230
To each their own, but no way can she remain the way she is. Also, it's good to note that not every killer is made to be insanely strong, having something that increases fun and interaction is great for the game too. However, I do disagree that she would be weak in this concept.
she can remain as she is as she is balanced as said something not "fun" for only one side isn't a good enough reason to change something otherwise spirit and deathslinger would have been nerfed long ago.
I do think you should avoid talking about balance if you can't see how she would be weak, you are taking away her chase power AND mobility for a super weak effect. it shows you are either trolling or you have no idea what you are talking about.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906218#Comment_1906218
Areas that survivors constantly use would become deadzones quickly, not to mention the survivors won't know what tiles to avoid at the start of the game. And towards the middle part too due to them gettig rescues and commiting to gens. Maybe it can be polished a bit, but without in-game testing the idea is solid enough on paper.
if you are a killer without a power which this would make hag then you will get gen rushed before that happens, that really only happens in games that last as long as old freddy made them.
also it's hella not solid i have pointed out flaws upon flaws, the fact that it can be rendered meaningless by survivors just getting used to it is prove enough.
edit: btw only killers that break pallets instantly or expose survivors create dead zones quickly. how do you expect killer that has nothing she can do in a chase to quickly create a dead zone when you just have to run across the map back and forth every time she has to break the pallet and deal with a jungle gym.
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this belongs in general discussions but besides that i would rather run mad grip since it is more common for survivors to body block you as hag when you try to bring a survivor to the basement.
even then i would still rather just run perks that will help me throughout the match as both these killers and having your game plan be winning by basement is boring for everyone.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906059#Comment_1906059
People do not like to play against game mechanics that reduce interaction and cause the game to be forced in a certain direction eg hook camping or hook bombing, hit and run or trap bullying. She is a boring killer and ignoring that to focus primarily on 'balance' isn't a healthy attitude to have. Since the mechanics of her gameplay remove all fun, regardless of winning or losing.
20m between Traps is fine, and i'll explain why: you Trap an area/tile that will be used a lot, you also Trap a nearby area for the same reasons. A survivor triggers the 1st Trap, you now have intel, you make your way over to them with a 24m TR (maybe 16m) and find them stumbling around because the controls caught them off guard, they run in a less efficient way to usual allowing you to capitalise on the chase, the fact you have no other Traps directly close to this tile allows you to not worry about having wasted your time with them stumbling across them and making you waste time resetting at the current or later period of the game. Also, because Traps cause such a nuisance to survivors movement, they may not want to purposefully trigger the trap to remove it from play. (If they are good at reverse controls, then yeah that will happen, but you know what it also does, it allows you to place a trap in an area different to that trap or in a more usueful area that was consumed by the 20m restriction. Also, there is such a thing as faking your power for mindgame purposes. Not to mention her Mint Rag add-ons apply a completely different effect as well as Scarred Hand giving her body block Traps back again.
I do not see on your level of this rework being lazy and laughably weak. Just coz you don't like the idea of it, does not mean it is a bad idea, admittedly we're all bias to our own ideas, however, constructive criticism is always welcome, mocking it isn't, so if that's your attitude, leave.
Oh also the trap radius for placement for that idea would overlap each other meaning it is extremely unlikely you can effectively place traps 20 meters from each other in spots that would be useful.
so that entire thing just wouldn't work as circles would overlap each other and make large area's you just can't place traps. this has flaws upon flaws.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906059#Comment_1906059
People do not like to play against game mechanics that reduce interaction and cause the game to be forced in a certain direction eg hook camping or hook bombing, hit and run or trap bullying. She is a boring killer and ignoring that to focus primarily on 'balance' isn't a healthy attitude to have. Since the mechanics of her gameplay remove all fun, regardless of winning or losing.
20m between Traps is fine, and i'll explain why: you Trap an area/tile that will be used a lot, you also Trap a nearby area for the same reasons. A survivor triggers the 1st Trap, you now have intel, you make your way over to them with a 24m TR (maybe 16m) and find them stumbling around because the controls caught them off guard, they run in a less efficient way to usual allowing you to capitalise on the chase, the fact you have no other Traps directly close to this tile allows you to not worry about having wasted your time with them stumbling across them and making you waste time resetting at the current or later period of the game. Also, because Traps cause such a nuisance to survivors movement, they may not want to purposefully trigger the trap to remove it from play. (If they are good at reverse controls, then yeah that will happen, but you know what it also does, it allows you to place a trap in an area different to that trap or in a more usueful area that was consumed by the 20m restriction. Also, there is such a thing as faking your power for mindgame purposes. Not to mention her Mint Rag add-ons apply a completely different effect as well as Scarred Hand giving her body block Traps back again.
I do not see on your level of this rework being lazy and laughably weak. Just coz you don't like the idea of it, does not mean it is a bad idea, admittedly we're all bias to our own ideas, however, constructive criticism is always welcome, mocking it isn't, so if that's your attitude, leave.
nope there are too many tiles within 20 meters of each other you can loop around and because you can't tp survivors can also just destroy them all. You are assuming survivors will actually be really messed up from this all the time while forgetting that players adapt and this does nothing if the killer isn't there.
the idea isn't good i already explained why. what you don't get is how actual games play out and how players will easily get used to this even during the match.
edit: hag can be turned into a 4.6 m/s killer and this still wouldn't be good.
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@REL1_C said:
This is a clever idea, I like it. This is in my opinion a buff but it isn't overpowered. This idea makes so where the dark trap will block a survivor and the light trap to injure a survivor. This will make her a lot harder to play but I bet the reward would be nice.
this isn't a buff and hag doesn't need a nerf and that's what this does.
just compare how her current traps work to both of these new ones, in case you didn't notice her current traps are just better and basically do what both of these new ones do, this is just splitting what her traps do into two parts and then restricting it more.
white traps are literally a worse version of her current ones, dark traps have no point because properly placed traps get you hits and survivors can easily loop an AI that is predictable, not to mention it takes away her map traversal.
this also makes her easier to bully since the survivors avoid the hit from the AI phantoms by triggering it at max range and they can destroy the white traps more freely. I will give credit and say it is OG and a cool idea but it's not better than what we currently have and AI's just wouldn't work out in this way.
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btw hag is good because of her snowball potential (getting multiple downs/injures quickly), any form of restricting that instantly kills hag's viability.
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We hag mains don't like any reworks because they always make her weaker and this does do that.
there isn't a point in dark phantom traps and i don't think they would work because how how complex it can be to make AI have good pathing especially since looping around an object could outlast the phantom as well as vaults.
restricting her tp'ing would also be awful, it would severely limit her snowball potential and that on top of her only being able to tp within 24 meters just nooooo this kills hag.
Hag is honestly one of the most balanced killers when it comes to how their power is designed, that is disagreeable but she doesn't need any changes she is perfect as she is.
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I don't think it should be too short as a lot have suggested but i do think it should be reduced to like 20 or 15 seconds.
I honestly would still rather run spine chill tho since it tells you if the killer is going for you, because of that spine chill will always be the better perk.
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I don't like the perk as it's incredibly rng from the skill checks to if you get survivors who are not bothered by no audio alert along with the fact that it's a hex that has to survive a long time and it's position is also rng.
you have too little control over it and it takes too long to reach maximum power, I would either make it not spawn until you get like 2 or 3 tokens or i would reduce it's needed tokens to reach maximum power to 3 or 4. So what you said because there isn't much else we can do to buff it while keeping it as it is.
I know what your thinking as that wouldn't be fair as some people can't react well but the thing is it's just WAY too rng based in nearly every aspect.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905227#Comment_1905227
No one said she was op lol and yes, a mechanic that is not enjoyed by the vast majority should be changed, that's probably one of the best reasons to change something XD
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905230#Comment_1905230
In what way is a trap based power that requires chasing to capitalise off of them being triggered lazy?
Reverse controls would not be complained about nearly as much as current Hag who in your mind should stay the say she is. They may be frustrating if you cannot get used to them quickly? But people moan about Nurse ignoring the comventional loop game because they haven't bothered to get used to how to actually counter her. I've had experience with reverse controls in other games, and they are a very exciting mechanic.
20m for a Trap would be needed for a mechanic like this, it would be busted to allow Traps to be mear together like they are now, also, they need to be at so little resource and only be given back when triggered. If she could be like "oh, no one is using this tile here best recycle it" that would be way too leniant for a trap that makes their movement harder to manage as efficiently.
Freddy's one is coming soon :p
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1905022#Comment_1905022
You have to keep Hag's identity the same when reworking her power because otherwise her entire lore will need changing too. Her character is centred around charms and hexes.
I would say read the rework, you may like it.
As i have said in plenty of posts mainly on deathslinger fun doesn't factor into balance unless it is not enjoyable by both sides. This is a pvp game you will ruin other player's experiences by just doing good. That is all i'll say on the topic of "fun" because i don't care about it i care about balance and i won't respond on it from here on out i will only talk about balance.
your idea doesn't make hag have a similar power level it actually makes her laughably bad, it doesn't even keep the same feel as her power since you are basically trapper but with worse traps. 20 meters? that sooooooooo dumb dude your power is a TRAP your are basically saying that if a survivor doesn't go into one spot the entire area around it is safe, the very nature of the power you describe would never even make it into implementation because it doesn't do anything unless you are already chasing a survivor AS A TRAP BASED KILLER. lastly what if the survivor is good at controlling their character even in reverse? your power does nothing, also a lot of the addons you want don't actaully help you since you can't act on info as a killer without a power.
the idea is awful, it makes her a joke and i honestly think this is a joke as well. you might as well always play with water lodge shoe just to see how bad this idea would be in practice.
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I mean you are basically trying to lose as hag since coordination is her weakness or biggest strength depending on the survivors you get.
I don't really have any tips for this since you have to constantly change your play style to win against good survivors. I can at least tell you that if your being predictable your going to lose so you have to be kinda creative with your trap placement and switch from proxy camping to spreading out your web further to hopefully get them when they just run out of the area your protecting.
hag is a killer who has to adapt to the survivors or bunker down with a strat like 3 genning but against coordination survivors can get past that.
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that is how his portals work, you can't see or hear them until he uses them so that means you guys just didn't notice him placing it there.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904534#Comment_1904534
Looks like they got lickers chasing you vote up.Keep making the killers look weak, maybe you'll be on your way to having more lickers
I love how so many new players go to feed back on the forums to complain about killers when they haven't even gotten that good at the game yet, yes im talking about you.
Anyone with a good amount of time in this game knows survivors are stronger than the killer to the point where against good survivors in a swf only spirit and nurse have a chance, and if they are using a complete meta build then even spirit is iffy if she can win.
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If your team doesn't win against deathslinger it's for one of two reasons.
- You all suck at using LOS objects to last longer in chases and maybe even knowing when to throw the pallet.
- your team failed to split up and do gens to simply out pressure him.
Deathslinger sacrifices mobility and snowball potential so he can quickly down a single survivor, if you stay healed and just last a decent amount of time he losses as long as your team does gens and splits them.
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@3loen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1805254#Comment_1805254
"I liked to punish people" I think that's probably the gist of this whole argument tbh. Sure, it wasn't the best change that could have been made but I'm glad they did it. It doesn't always guarantee an easy win, specifically with very good survivors, but it removed a lot of the gameplay on both sides and put an unfair amount of power in the hands of the killer if they decide to play scummy. Regardless of how many kills or points they get.
It was the best change but it was boring.
try to come up with a better idea or look at other idea's, I haven't seen a single one that nerfs mori's and makes them not exploitable by the killer or survivors other than simply increasing the number of hooks to mori a survivor to 2.
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Also from reading this rework it is pretty bad, 20 meters between traps? that is ridiculous and also im pretty sure people will hate reversed controls way more than how she works and also just that whole power idea is WAY more lazy than how she is because you place a trap and that is it. traps not recycling is also dumb it's your power and since this does nothing to help you in a chase really if survivors can play well with reversed controls then you just don't have a power.
this would make hag super unviable and as said you don't change killers because of dumb reasons that are not balance related otherwise you should probably instead just complain about the king of a lazy power that which is freddy.
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Hag needs no changes, she is by nature not fun to go against but she isn't op but is strong enough to be kinda viable. However you don't just change killers for being unfun to go against that isn't how you balance a game.
@matthewg64 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/222871/hag-rework-idea
I didn’t read that because you said you wanted to keep her identity, yet take away her transport ability? If that’s your idea rework her whole power, don’t allow to place traps and not teleport. The whole point of the killer is to pop up on the survivor instantly. You should think of a totally new thing instead of reworking her traps
yeah, as long as her traps work the way they do you can't improve hag without giving her a new power.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904591#Comment_1904591
The fact they can be purchased with Shards is definitely not a vaild reason to drastivally overhaul and improve the killers gameplay.
Being realistic, it is very possible. The twins demonstrate that the game can handle alternating between characters while in-game. My idea is just the next step from that; though the characters models aren't 'active' in the trial at the same time, but they are there to be switched between.
Don't get me wrong i love this game but in the past 2 years i have lost a lot of respect for how they handle this game and i know they will never change a killer so drastically like what you are suggestion.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904591#Comment_1904591
The fact they can be purchased with Shards is definitely not a vaild reason to drastivally overhaul and improve the killers gameplay.
Being realistic, it is very possible. The twins demonstrate that the game can handle alternating between characters while in-game. My idea is just the next step from that; though the characters models aren't 'active' in the trial at the same time, but they are there to be switched between.
take a look at this company, they didn't give victor cosmetics, didn't fully carry out the community legion cosmetic idea where the face changes, and are focused on money just take a look at recent events and how they are trying to draw players in instead of focusing on improvements.
they don't have competition and have enough content to not care to drastically change something that honesty has easier solutions.
your idea isn't realistic because this is bhvr we are dealing with and they have no competition for this game.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904522#Comment_1904522
True, but the main reason I opted away from just a minor tweak and instead did this full redesign is to turn Legion into a properly fulfilling killer; atm they're a Killer that's just got a unique consmetic style. It's also for that very reason that makes my rework possible, right now altering the body's cosmetic changes not only the model, but the motion/animation, audio and appearance of the killer. That is what my rework does but applies it to in-game instead of just on the menu. It also grants a multiude of playstyles and add-on selections. I enjoy Legion as is, but this completes them in the game
and the devs won't do that which is why is said be realistic.
they are a free killer because you can buy them with shards and plenty of players do so, there is hardly any point in putting in that much effort for a free killer.
also if your referring to your OG idea as said that is too complex, you referred to the twins but they are really just 1 power which is a remote control ba- I mean adult and victor doesn't even have any cosmetics not even extra blood from prestiging.
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If you meant ebony mori again no
survivors mori-able on last hook is balanced what isn't balanced is killing them the second they got saved which is what the old ebony mori allowed.
also for that one guy who will comment no having it be the same as it once was but you have to hook every survivor isn't a good idea because swf and cowards exist who will play stealthy and stay out of the way to rob you of your mori.
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no and what the heck is that?!
memento mori is completely fine, you can kill the last survivor left in the trial i see no problem with this and at BEST it MIGHT get you past DS and prevent a survivor that would have barely escaped. not only is this situation extraordinary rare i have in fact never seen it used this way. Ever.
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when you are still new enough to think killers are too strong
those were the days...
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904501#Comment_1904501
Regardless, I like my idea better 😂 he doesn't need to down people in Frenzy, he's intel and rotation killer.
he also shouldn't be able to miss and then attack again, good players don't even miss.
as for the downing part i was like that too until i realized two things. one all survivors are basically injured at this point and are more than likely spread out, two you will get at most 2 downs because it only lasts 8 seconds and survivors more than likely won't be holding hands. also our idea makes it so your tokens are consumed every time frenzy ends so you have to hit 4 survivors not in deep wounds to be able to perform fatal frenzy which is pretty hard and luck based.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904384#Comment_1904384
True, but most players pay with money for chapters.
Your ideas are cool, but could be made polished by only granting token gains for each successful Killer Instinct attack:
- 1 token reduces the amount of the Feral Frenzy power gauge lost by 25% when missing an attack with FF active.
- 2 tokens reduces the amount of the Feral Frenzy power gauge lost by 50% when missing an attack with FF active.
- 3 tokens reduces the amount of the Feral Frenzy power gauge lost by 75 % when missing an attack with FF active; allows Killer Instinct to affect Survivors suffering from Deep Wound.
*lose a token when missing an attack during Feral Frenzy with Killer Instinct not active*
- 4 tokens allows Legion to enter Fatal Frenzy the next time Killer Instinct is triggered. Fatal Frenzy has a duration of 20 seconds; successful attacks performed on Healthy Survivors grants no cooldown reduction, however the Fatal Frenzy gauge reduction is paused during the successful attack cooldown. Fatal Frenzy experiences a 50% slowed power consumption while carrying a survivor.
Lose all tokens when Fatal Frenzy ends.
most players don't buy the chapters we have too many shards and a lot of players just save up shards before it is released.
As for the idea it is when you successfully hit survivor, i don't think 1 hit should be rewarded as it is always free I also think they should keep it how it is when missing a hit which is you enter fatigue we don't need skilless power spam that was nearly impossible to outlast. Also no point in it showing survivors in deep wounds during frenzy since you can't hit them without losing your power.
also you are unclear about the 4 tokens effect and if it damages survivors that is way too long that's twice the normal duration of frenzy and good players don't miss and missing should be heavily punished since frenzy makes hitting survivors very easy. I like our idea as it is since it is simple and more skill based with a hint of luck. still i like it when people try to do new things you just need to understand the game a little better to make realistic ideas.
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@Hyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904421#Comment_1904421
Seems reasonable! Ultimately it's pretty hard to know how these changes will work out in the game. On paper it sounds good though! Kinda like I mentioned before about Fatal Frenzy, if you're able to down multiple survivors at that point, the problem isn't the power, it's the survivors not getting away from you. If you can nail all 4 survivors (which isn't that often anyway in my experience), then you'll most likely be able to insta-down the most recent one you hit, but the rest should be too far away to get to in time before the power ends. If they're not...that's on them, and they deserve the punishment of another down.
yeah i had to remember that you are not getting extra time with fatal frenzy and it can be adjusted, it gives survivors time to run, and successful hits in frenzy have a recovery animation of 1 second. unless you get back to back hits it's very unlikely you will get more than 2 downs which is actually good since you injured everyone anyway.
I like talking about balance since im extremely good at seeing how thing A affects things B, C, ect and how it would work in an actual game (i have played too much killer and have an active imagination XD). This is pretty balanced I would actually like this in the base game if only the devs actually would take our suggestions.
As long as fatigue recovery isn't instant this really balanced and gives what the players want which is being rewarded for doing good. it doesn't change how legion is played but it does make him stronger at what he does unless you get 4 tokens and even then it's only 1 maaaybe 2 downs.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904389#Comment_1904389
And what about when thats combined with TR changing perks or multiple slowdown perks with good add ons? We've already seen what happens when you make a killer with shortcuts to an easy win with Pyramid Head and now the Twins and their consequence free hook camping. If these abusable design flaws exist bad players will exploit them making for a boring game for all involved.
Good killers won't play these killers due to them being shallow and having no learning curve and because of this the only matches will have this level of gameplay, and people will quit when they see the killer, then the killer will either get nerfed or thrown on the back burner and forgotten like Legion.
Twins is the worst killer gameplay design wise since Legion, maybe even ever. This change would make them significantly worse.
im aware that she is bad however none of what you said matters when it comes to if victor should prevent vaults/pallets. slowdown perks do not affect the chase they affect the objectives and TR perks are SUPER bad.
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I main plague she needs a build that works regardless of if survivors cleanse meaning you come out on top.
I use pop, blood echo, infectious fright, and thano/bbq depending if you want to be more chase or slow down focused.
some quick tips
- always use pools you pass by except in the beginning of the game, don't go too far out of your way for them tho and also use then like candy if survivors are cleanse heavy.
- don't spend time breaking a survivor unless no one is infected and even then if they present a free hit depending if they are at a loop you should take it.
- She needs to get full use from corrupt purge, infectious fright makes her very deadly so when using it you have to slug and try to get 2-3 downs before hooking them all.
- While in corrupt purge if your passing through a pallet fully charged just let the stream release and try to hit the survivor if they use the pallet, if they continued to run adjust your aim accordingly. At loops you can shoot over just spam it while looping and you will hit them.
- ALWAYS try to corner survivors to get free downs you can even do this while chasing if the survivor is dodging by pressing them into a corner, i have done this soooo many times even in little parts of walls that stick out at the center.
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@Hyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904404#Comment_1904404
Oh for sure! I'm not married to any of it, like I said, think of it as just a starting point for ideas, totally open to changing anything and everything.👍️
cool tell me what you think of these changes then.
For each hit in frenzy you gain a token. Tokens are consumed when frenzy ends.
- Nothing
- Reduced feral frenzy fatigue
- Reduced feral frenzy fatigue and all survivors affected by deep wounds are revealed by killer instinct.
- When feral frenzy ends you go into a fatal frenzy, your movement speed is drastically reduced for 2 seconds before moving at 5.2 m/s it then lasts for 8 seconds during which your attacks injure and down survivors.
I think if the fatal frenzy is short enough it will be fine if it downs multiple survivors, the problem was treating it's duration the same as a normal frenzy.
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@Hyd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904317#Comment_1904317
I had an idea somewhat similar to yours but, slightly different, with small buffs for each Feral Frenzy hit.
This is probably a bit of an extreme change to the Power, but it could likely be pulled off through altering some of the add-ons instead, OR, just think of these ideas as a starting point for potential changes... Anyway, here is what I was thinking for Legion:
Implement a token system based on Feral Frenzy hits:
For each Survivor hit during a single activation of Feral Frenzy, gain a token. All tokens are consumed when Feral Frenzy ends, granting the appropriate buff(s) listed below. Token buffs do not stack, you gain only the benefit(s) listed for each tier/token amount gained/consumed.
- With 2 tokens gained, you'll suffer a greatly reduced stun when Feral Frenzy ends
- With 3 tokens gained, you'll suffer a regular stun, but Feral Frenzy is refreshed and immediately ready for use when it ends.
- With 4 tokens gained, Feral Frenzy becomes Fatal Frenzy (refreshed to full power) - The change from Feral Frenzy to Fatal Frenzy stuns Legion for 2-3 seconds as they become enraged. For the remainder of the power, Frenzy hits on Survivors can now put them into the dying state. Tokens will not be gained during Fatal Frenzy, and the power duration will not be refreshed on any hits.
Notes about Fatal Frenzy: A Fatal Frenzy hit on an injured Survivor puts them in the dying state. A Fatal Frenzy hit on a healthy Survivor injures them like normal, but The Legion can then follow up with another hit to down them if the Power is still active.
My thoughts on this are as follows:
Fatal Frenzy probably seems OP - allowing Legion to sprint around and now able to down Survivors with Frenzy hits? Crazy, right? Remember though, to even get into Fatal Frenzy mode, you'll have to have nailed all 4 Survivors during Feral Frenzy...not an easy task unless the whole team is nearby, which in my experience, isn't that often. So, Fatal Frenzy isn't something I'd expect to be utilized much, but it is an appropriate reward if someone can pull it off and/or an appropriate punishment if the Survivor team doesn't scatter. Plus, once activated, you have a limited window of time to make use of it, as the power does not refresh on hits in this state.
That said, the 2 and 3 token buffs will be reached far more often, and, in my opinion, aren't over the top but rather satisfy the more common requests I see for Legion - shortened stun (the 2 token buff), and faster power refill (3 token buff, an instant power refresh).
Too much/OP? Not enough? There are a lot of ideas out there that are far simpler of course and achieve what I see most people asking for but I thought this change could be workable and make Legion a little more interesting.
I like that idea however a few things should be pointed out.
The reduced frenzy stun is way better then just having your power back right away and you don't need it if 3/4 survivors are injured, i think he should always have reduced stun except at 4 tokens since it doesn't matter then. Instead of getting your power back immediately how about instead you detect survivors in deep wounds in your TR with killer instinct for a few seconds?
Also at 4 tokens that is way too strong, keep it in mind all survivors are injured at that point so it's like having an instant down until it ends with high speed and fast vaulting. I think it should just instead down the last survivor you hit so at 4 tokens it just downs the survivor and ends. you already have good pressure at that point no need for it to be a game ender.
edit: if it can be changed to be more balanced i do like your idea more than mine tho, i kinda want to steal it and improve it if that's fine of course i'll credit you if i mention the idea.
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904049#Comment_1904049
Thats entirely dependant on how far away she is which is something that the survivor won't know unless victor is loosed in a chase. Identical to how another survivor could get hit by Feral Frenzy and Legion decided you were the one who was going to die because of it.
you can only blame yourself for running into the killer, that actually changes nothing nothing to how she currently works when you run into her and as said you can get hit right next to her and because of the wake up time and speed boost you get you can take victor off and still reach a pallet.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1904317#Comment_1904317
Legion isn't free. Unless there's a special edition on console that includes him, that's not really meaning he is free though, unless i'm missing something else.
Well, the idea of Twins existing makes mechanics like this possible imo.
I would say the idea of missing the takedown and not having a solid punishment is a bad direction. I'd say missing a Takedown costs 1 token.
he is free because of shards
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No, this is too complex and the devs won't consider changing them that drastically. However they would consider giving them a secondary power that fits them and again no it won't be having multiple of them in the trial. In not saying your idea is bad i'm just saying it won't be considered since it would be too much work for a free killer, that's just business.
I do have an idea for a secondary ability that only adds onto the legion and is just an extended part of their power.
Legion secondary ability: Takedown rush (i'm still thinking of a better name)
Each hit you get in feral frenzy charges Takedown rush, it will take 4 hits to fully charge Takedown rush. To activate Takedown you must be in feral frenzy, if you successfully hit a survivor they will get downed regardless of their health state and the charges are depleted. Missing Takedown puts you in fatigue but does not deplete your charges.
Takedown when activated slows you for 1 seconds then you can run at normal frenzy speed for 5 seconds before you go into fatigue, however you can't perform vaults. During this time you can perform takedown which will make you rush forward with decreased turning and instantly down a survivor.
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@BlooperReel said:
Ngl chief, seems like a pretty terrible idea.
NoED is a bit of a crutch perk for killers that aren't very good. I'm not saying this as a survivor but a fellow killer. There are better perks and you get more points for less gens completed. NoED rewards bad plays.
If your NoED gets got too much I say it's because you fail to pressure survivors during the endgame. As a killer, you should have reduced their numbers to a more manageable 2 by the time the exit gates are powered and at that point NoED wouldn't matter to them so much. With only 2, you hook one, then the other is forced to grab or go, rather than search and destroy.
literally this, only bad or super sweaty killers rely on noed or ones who are using a meme build.
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@RodrigoFlecha said:
NOED must be an advantage that is not disabled when making totems, when the gates open, NOED must remain activated until the end of the game.
No, that wouldn't be fair even if it is used on weak killers because the exposed status effect is one of the strongest things in this game.
Everything needs counterplay especially if it's strong noed is no exception.
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or we just make it so you recover from exhaustion even when running and call it at that.
No mither is a challenge perk meant to be bad but i think it should at least recover from exhaustion since you are always one hit from being downed.
Giving it a bunch of random things and parts of other perks won't happen the devs want perks to be unique, it needs synergy and a unique effect.
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noed is fine, i can't believe tho that someone actually made a post to buff it.
Also... what does finished with totem mean?
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@RodrigoFlecha said:
Ridiculous is the game's developer listening to survivors' players, there is no need to make changes with any killer, as they already did and spoiled the game, in the beginning there was more bias, now the game has only benefited those who play as survivors, even the benefits are ridiculous.
new huh, yes the devs rarely listen to us and do their own thing, no a TON of changes are needed for almost all killers from addons to their base power. this game is far from balanced and works because not everyone is a pro and they make mistakes. When a pro swf meta is assembled they beat nearly all killers.
Only after all killers become balanced/good, OoO and DS for survivors gets restricted and maybe a few others, and something gets added to the beginning of the game to slow gen rush will this game actually be fair.
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@REL1_C said:
Good idea but I'm not concerned about myself, I have experience when it comes to looping. I know, why complain about someone else getting downed and the killer camping, it's my altruism, it's hurts my score. I shouldn't care but I do, I have de-pipped from a killer who wouldn't let me get one unhook.
there are plenty of killers that do this, a good billy and huntress results in the same thing if they decide to camp.
nerfing a killers power simply because they might camp isn't good reasoning unless they can do it like the twins can since the twins can camp and pressure other survivors.
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his power is designed to down survivors out of position, he does this.
want to avoid getting downed by the saw at full health then just force the m1 at a vault then do the normal chase.
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@6yXJI0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/222734/how-to-fix-deathslinger
His power is already useless on many tiles. I can even say that many pallets are safe pallets against Deathslinger.
that's if they make it to the pallet but yeah once the pallet is dropped he can't do anything on most loops in the game, that is a major reason as to why this idea is so bad survivors can still just drop the pallet and it would be even more easier to do so.
that is why i said huntress and PH would simply be better choices as they both deal damage with their power over objects. in fact there wouldn't be a reason to pick deathslinger over huntress since she can use her power more, it deals damage, and it barely slows her down unlike deathslinger who is massively slowed when missing and reloading and he needs to reel in survivors to hit them. Even if deathslinger was 4.6 huntress would still be miles better simply because her power is better, movement speed is only considered if it is power based being 4.6 doesn't make killers good it's their power.