TheWind
TheWind
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- TheWind
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it is a good time to play killer for sure, unfortunately the queues are super long because absolutely no one (myself included) wants to play survivor.
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This seems a lot like the discussion around a game's meta, or back with pen and paper RPGs, min maxing or GURPS. It sounds like this is an argument about why some parts of a game are naturally stronger than others and playing without them puts you at a disadvantage. While I understand what you're explaining that you just want to play the way you want it doesn't actually address what I see as the actual source of frustration.
Every explanation from people who believe in the statement, as I've read it, has basically said that when someone plays in a way that makes it so you feel like you can't win it's that person's fault.
My argument against this is that the support evidence is always "well the devs" or " they brought a Mori" not what is actually happening. "I wanted to win and have fun and I couldn't".
Calling someone a tryhard is actually an insult against you and your character since what you're saying is that you wanted to do well but you aren't able to compete so you need to lash out to try and beat them another way.
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I'm still really conflicted. Most of the opinions I've read here tall about how one side is taking it way too seriously where the other side isn't however my confusion lies in the statement itself. In my experience you don't result to name calling if you don't care or are just having fun.
You get angry in some way and in a game with such a clear contrary objective on both sides (survive or don't) I can only assume it's because you couldn't survive or couldn't get kills?
This is why I'm asking everyone here, how can you call someone a sweaty tryhard as an insult when it means you yourself where trying hard but came up short?
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Holding W tech too strong. Balance patch needed.
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@FootMan2893 said:
In any other game? An insult from salty people. In DBD? People being toxic a-holes and bringing in the strongest and most optimal strats. For survivors it'd be running the meta perks with a full 4 man coordinated team in discord and playing to just rush gens as fast as possible. For killers it'd be running certain add on combinations on killers like Huntress or Spirit, then maybe bring a mori as well.
The reason why DBD can be treated differently is because everyone knows that at it's highest form of play it's unbalanced as ######### and unfun to play against. A meta built team of coordinated survivors playing well will one sidedly stomp any killer in the game regardless of how well the killer plays. A Spirit or Huntress with the right addons is just going to stomp solo queue games unless the team is somehow filled with god tier survivors. In both instances it's just not even fun gameplay, it's only purpose is to stroke an insecure ego while ruining the game for the opposite side.
There are varying lower levels of being try hard and sweaty for both sides, however a lot of that will end up being subjective. Some people will consider running Dead Hard, DS, BT, and adrenaline/unbreakable to be sweaty. Some people will consider even thinking of touching Billy, Nurse, Spirit, or Huntress to be sweaty. In those cases you just gotta decide what is what for yourself.
I'm going to ask you some questions because you were cool enough to offer your insight if that's ok.
I understand what you're saying here, I just don't fully grasp the implications. When you call someone Sweaty or a Tryhard are you mad that they used a combination that's in your eyes unfair or because you feel like the other person is trying to actively ruin your fun?
What is the inciting emotion?
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I really wish someone like Tru3 or anyone who actively uses the terms insultingly would chime in and defend the point. I really want to have the discussion so I can understand better.
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Barbed wire is definitely a silent hill thing. It was all over the movie and the first game. I couldn't find a reference to razor blades on wire in the games though and it's been too long to remember the game that well. Super interesting question that I actually want to find an answer to.
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Lol complaining about killers afking. So I've seen complaints about killers being "sweaty" and trying to hard, the perks they use, the way they get kills and now when they don't try? Comedy gold.
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They do. Sitting around the hook if you're not in a chase costs you bloodpoints.
Bad news, it's not going to make a difference. If you're getting face camped, give up and die on the hook. Move on to the next game. there's not much more I can offer unless you're in a SWF with borrowed time and some good timing.
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First, ignore the survivor rules. Your job is to kill survivors and as survivor our job is to avoid dying. Anyone who needs more rules to make sure their feelings aren't hurt isn't playing a horror survival game.
Second, tunneling becomes pretty useless once the Borrowed Time, Bottled Time, DS etc start to come out. There's nothing wrong with the low hanging fruit but don't be afraid to slug to try and gain some gen pressure.
As I see it a killer's job is to make it so survivors have to do anything else other than gens. Healing, pig hats, mending, running, being slugged or hooked are all tools and a hooking/slugging takes up two survivors time. All around a win.
Good luck my dude, killer is stressful af.
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I think we've all had that happen a lot. Do the best you can. I come up with a goal that isn't the sacrifice like "I'm going to practice the Billy chainsaw". For me this helps me care a lot less when I don't have a chance of hooking survivors.
Plus, even on a total loss, bloodpoints do help a lot. I was surprised at how much having a teachable perk or purple add-on actually changes things.
Either way, the devs have said they're working to fix matchmaking. Do what you can to make the match less stressful even if it means ignoring the hooks or making your own fun.
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@InTheBushes321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1379858#Comment_1379858
Yeah, but the concept is the same. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Concepts transcend individual themes. Your criticism is bad.
I did not do that. I gave specific reasons why the game is lacking. I didn't just sling insults. Maybe you didn't read what I wrote. I have offered significantly more useful criticism than you, and honestly, people like you who just carry water for mediocre devs are as bad as people who ad hominem them, because neither of you contribute anything at all of substance to the discourse.
The concepts are fundamentally different. Would you buy paintings from an artist and tell them they're the worst because they didn't use the color yellow you told them to? This isn't a country. You're not here because you have to be, your financial stake is minimal and the devs are under no obligation to do anything for you.
Believe what you want but your argument is fundamentally flawed and no matter how upset it makes you, the developers are under no obligation to make you happy. There is in fact a very simple resolution here.
This isn't a country. There are no borders, tarifs, travel restrictions or assets. You do in fact have the right to take your business elsewhere and unlike leaving a country, the developers have no power to impede you. Go be free. Exercise what little power you still have in this world and CHOOSE to spend your time where you want to.
If you CHOOSE to spend your time here you're agreeing to enjoy the game designed and developed exactly as it is.
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@InTheBushes321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1379340#Comment_1379340
Whether or not I agree with OP, this is a really stupid response, like when people tell you to leave a country if you don't like it.
People get angry and frustrated with something or criticize it because they want it to improve. BHVR may treat their employees well, which is great, but they treat this game with no real measure of care. We saw from the last Q+A that the balance guy doesn't even play the game. Bugs persist for months or years and compound on top of each other, with extensive evidence, and BHVR does nothing about it. Killers don't receive reworks or retouches in order of urgency, or even anything close to regularly. The meta is extremely stale, perk wise, as far as viability, no that it matters because more recent game changes by BHVR have encouraged good players to leave, ending up with a situation where 90+% of the survivor player base is total garbage, feeding a positive feedback loop of people crying about things being too strong, which happens all the time here.
These are all substantive, concrete criticisms. This game, balance and maintenance wise, is a bad game. It is not maintained for, and cared for properly. I play it because the core loop is interesting, and I hope they improve it, even though history shows they won't, and even if they do, they'll probably do it in a counterproductive manner.
While i'm not sure they're quite as bad as Fallout devs, they're not really good at their jobs. Pointing this out with the evidence I've provided (and the litany of other evidence that exists) is valid.
The difference here with your comparison is one is a country and the other is art. While everyone has an opinion about what's right or wrong this is at its core the expression of the developers and if you're so incensed by the decisions of this artistic vision your best option is to take your business elsewhere instead of resulting to slinging insults.
If you hate the bugs and the gameplay find a different game. If you feel like you know so much better then pick up blender and unreal and do better. Otherwise offer constructive criticism and stop name calling the devs.
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@xxDeathwishDW said:
So here it is:
I hooked a survivor and then start to patrol generators.
Then they unhooked, and I went for it. When I was there, they were healing themselves. I wanted to hit the other guy, but the hooked man was too close, so I hit him.
After again unhook, I went to other guy cause I knew I was tunneling, which is not good. I usually do this, BUT when I don't tunnel A survivor, (just one, not all) I can't win! They 4 escaped, but this were his last chances. All hooked 2 times.
But also, when I tunnel a survivor, they say "very bad killer, tunneler". But is it wrong or I am bad, when they unhook they are just healing themselves there, isn't it wrong? Or is it true?
So, how can I win without tunneling a survivor? I'm new on killer, so pls some advices to make me better.
Going for the injured survivor is fine. You want to be mindful of DS but killing a survivor reduces the amount of gen pressure. You can follow the survivor rule book if you want but why play with a handicap?
Something to try is using the slug to your advantage. If one is on a hook that's two survivors not working on gens. Slug another as the first is being unhooked and that's three that are now doing something other than gens. Go back for the first while they're healing or pressure the fourth off a gen... Whatever works in the moment.
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@OBX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1379326#Comment_1379326
At no point did I say I hated the game. Though I am no fan of the devs and their incompetence with regards to the plethora of bugs in this game.
Then make your own game.
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This is pretty disrespectful for a game you're supposedly playing. Everyone has an opinion about how it should be but this is still someone's labor of love. If you hate it so much, leave.
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As a killer camping usually turns out in a loss of bloodpoints but it definitely helps get kills especially when the gates are powered. Tunneling is often the thing to do. If you're fighting a pretty good group and one is not so great, get rid of them and reduce the number of people you have to worry about.
Like everyone says, play how you need to. Turning off chat with that little arrow helps too if you just want to play the game.
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The game is fairly well balanced for the majority of the community. There are issues but it's no Evolve.
Survivors who complain about killer perks, camping, tunneling etc are part of the toxic community problem. So you died, move on. At max it's a depip, do better next time. It happens to literally everyone at some point.
This game breeds hostility between killer and survivor by nature like horde and alliance in vanilla wow. You are opposed, you can't talk and the defined goal is to actively compete. It's supposed to be tense, you're supposed to feel upset. That's what makes it horror. If we all felt good and got along it wouldn't be a horror title.
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@Xpljesus said:
This isn't a bug, this is intended
The concern that prompted this is what's the plan to integrate this killer with the existing archive system? if you have a quest for safe unhooks but everyone is playing executioner the system becomes worthless. Add to that that in order to then take advantage of this new killer you'd have to add a challenge for un-caging which would be way too specific.
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they also don't count as unhooks for anything. we'll make it doesn't work with them
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BHVR has said they are working on a new matchmaking system. No idea when it will be. Killer is pretty awful to play until then. We should all just play survivor, not like we need killer players or anything.
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The devs have already read and responded but you're defending your point so I should do the kindness of reading and responding.
We can agree a doctor knows more than a plumber when it comes to practicing medicine. If you have a medical question it makes sense to know who is answering your question and what makes them qualified to answer. It may hurt the plumbers feelings that his medical advice is listened to less than a doctor's but sometimes making a good decision requires checking your source.
Now this is a wildly unpopular opinion but I actually believe that we should do our best to make decisions based on well founded proof not how much someone believes what they're saying. Maybe the plumber has a great contribution to the field of medicine and it is wrong to ignore him completely but I for one will tend towards listening to my doctor.
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@Poweas said:
Hm, ranks don't mean everything. Some rank 20's have a valid opinion, and for that to be invalidated just because of their ranks is unfair. Me and @BigBrainMegMain briefly talked about it on our walls.
Plus, my ranks are 5 (survivor) and 6 (killer) right now (I think) due to me having PC issues, despite them normally being 1 for both sides, that doesn't make my opinion less valid because I can't play the game (still waiting on the duster to dust it out). Plus, with how easy it is to rank up nowadays, you'll always get people giving wrong answers who are at rank 1, and those who could give right ones at rank 10 would be considered invalid, because of their rank?
I only see it as a way for people to mock each other more, which is not what the forums need. It's a good idea, but people would definitely use it to mock others. @Bovinity is a new(ish) player, yet they have some of the best ideas I've heard since joining the forums. I believe they're around rank 10 (sorry if I'm wrong), but that doesn't make them wrong, but I can see people certainly mocking them for it if their rank was shown.
It's a good idea at heart, but it'd only create toxicity imo.
@Mandy said:
The issue with this, we have no way of knowing what game time people have - there's no way to tie up your game account with the forum account basically. And whilst I would love this function because from a moderation point of view it would mean dealing with spam/troll accounts a lot easier, I don't think it's anything we will be able to implement for the time being.
Mandy -
Yeah I couldn't come up with a reasonable way to link the two accounts either unless this forum authenticated with steam and it doesn't. Thanks for reading though.
Poweas -
I hear what you're saying but the community is already toxic. My suggestion is not to invalidate an opinion but rather give you context for it. A rank 20 may have a good idea but they also may think the clown is the best because he stomps at rank 20. True in context, sure, but maybe not entirely accurate. Also not suggesting an idea because it may cause a community that is toxic on its own because it may cause toxicity would stop a lot of progress.
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I mean nurse for sure, can't kill anyone for the first million games until you figure out how to blink through stuff.
That out of the way though, Freddy eludes me. He seems so simple, slash people, put red stuff on the floor, make gens vomit blood, profit. But in practice he's like a weird hag trapper with no immediate benefit like traps give. You have to basically know where the survivors are and where they're going without anything to help with that.
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I love a happy ending.
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@survivormain1105 said:
And he told me "saw a key so no mercy at all"
I'd have brought a Mori just to be sure tbh.
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Yeah I can see how this could cause the dedicated servers to rear their ugly head but honestly getting rid of the guaranteed blind is worth it imo. I think more mind games makes the game more skill based and that is for sure the thing we need.
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@LordRegal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1331812#Comment_1331812
https://i.redd.it/rrji5k0vixe31.png
(not my picture, just wanted to have the visual example and found this one through a quick search)
The arrow is right next to the text box, and yes, it does remember between games if you had it clicked or not.
Thanks for that, you are a life saver. I am so tired of seeing how I should kill myself because one snowflake missed a vault and died. I can never close chat fast enough.
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@BattleCast said:
You actually can remove the end game chat by clicking the little arrow.
Where is this arrow? Man my experience with this game would be so much better if I could have chat auto hidden.
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1331324#Comment_1331324
What's sad is that the killer should always have the advantage. I'm not saying it should be a walk in the park, but if you have a good swf team, then they can make a killer regret ever hitting accept at the lobby screen! As cool as it is to be able to use different perks from different killers, a killer's own individual set of perks should be enough to see them through, but it's not. And with a matchmaking system in place that ensures that you'll be competing against red ranks, can make for a very lousy experience.
I actually believe you should need to unlock teachables to make it in the high ranks and I believe an unprepared killer should have a hard time vs good survivors but I 100% agree, the killer should be the actionary party not completely reactionary.
Survivors should spend more time trying to prevent the killer from winning instead of the killer having to be good enough not to immediately lose.
Since there has to be a killer in order for there to be a game at all so feeling like I never should have queued up isn't a good thing.
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@SweetTerror said:
I've been playing this game for a couple of months now and I've managed to work my way to level 13 killer (not bad considering I only have a few hours a day to play this game😊). But it's gotten to the point to where I keep facing red rank swf and...it's not fun anymore. Nothing worse than approaching the exit door and seeing all four survivors lined up in a row teabagging you as they walk out (true story!).
Recently I leveled up Freddy to the point to where I really want to play him, but all I keep getting matched up against are red ranks. It's nice to think if this game considers me to be that good, but I know I'm not! LOL
Is anyone else a little too apprehensive to play killer? I find playing as a lone survivor far less nerve-wracking, because I'd rather be paired up with a red rank instead of going up against them.
Man, same. I've been playing long enough to have half the killer teachables and I am right there with you. This game is punishing on people who aren't the best at it.
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Aren't opinions fun? They don't even need any supporting evidence.
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It seems to me you don't play a lot of killer. Since we're just announcing opinions here's mine.
Voice chat / coms removes the benefits of some killer functions that rely on the fact survivors can't talk. Blindness, oblivious, undetectable, etc etc. You can't get that same advantage in the native game because a blind survivor can't see the aura of a downed survivor where on coms we can relay positions quickly. In addition being on voice chat lets us set up plays like dragging a killer into head on or a flashlight save. Sure, you can jump in a locker and hope but it's far more likely to happen when you can talk. Speaking in a factual, imperical sense, this does in fact improve the odds of survival and does impart a significant bonus.
Most add-ons are balanced around the efficiency they grant. We could go back and forth about the merit of seeing survivors through walls vs a one hit down but when it's all said and done it's all time. An iri head hatchet downs one survivor on a successful hit. It requires that the huntress have the skill to get the hit and changes no other part of the chase giving a benefit of time. Toolbox add-ons give a similar benefit. Less time on gens however there's a fairly low skill ceiling required to take full advantage. Same with insta-heal, same with the key. The argument on both sides is identical.
Here's that tldr opinion thing: killers require more skill than survivors by a large margin. Survivors have the challenge of stalling for time or not losing time where Killers have the challenge of earning time. Killer perks and add-ons serve to gain time, survivor perks and add-ons serve to spend it. Being on coms makes survivors more efficient and when the game is about a usage of time, efficiency is actually a big deal.
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I want to play killer but can't as well so I switched to survivor, It's way less stressful.
Seeing killers acting like that is sad to me because in most cases it comes from match after match of toxic survivors. Flashlight clicking, t-bagging, unfair matchmaking, awful verbal abuse... the list goes on. That killer has probably had enough and unfortunately, they could take it out on you. (This is not always the case, there are just plain old toxic killers)
In my experience as a survivor I find that killer BMing is only mildly irritating. Survivors are almost always in control so in most cases I can just choose to die and move on to the next game. If all else fails, sometimes the DC penalty time out for leaving is worth it.
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I derank. Being a rank 11 vs 3 red ranks ruins the game. Plus I really enjoy the hate you get even if survivors win and you don't stand a chance. There is no upside. Far better to just let them do whatever and move on. I switch it up, sometimes I'll practice controlling the Billy saw or nurse blink.
As long as matchmaking makes it that I can't enjoy playing you can guarantee I will do everything I can to derank. I'm not the best killer, that's why I'm not a red rank, I just want to vs people my level.
If I was good enough or had the perks, I would aspire to play in the least enjoyable way possible for survivors. Camping, tunneling, moris, slugging... I'm just not good enough to do it though so instead, I just find something else to do and drop rank.
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Because it's ruining a large populations ability to enjoy the game.
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best way to solve the problem: NOW WHEN YOU'RE OUTMATCHED EVERY GAME YOU CAN'T PROVE IT
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Yeah, getting bullied as a rank 17 by swf red ranks is super enjoyable. Good thing I came back to try again huh? Pretty good job so far I'd say.
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I don't really get why everyone is so light about this. There are games out there that actually respond to and try and prevent these things. Why is having a morally bankrupt community so accepted? Why doesn't-
Oh man, I was about to suggest things like behavior actually enforcing the report system they built in with like... Bans and things... or helping improve the community. That was silly of me.
Seriously though, the community at large is split: half of us just want to play a game and have fun and the other half are entitled survivor mains... I mean these people.
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I love how the comments are always the same: "I never have that problem because I'm amazing", "you're just bad and need to be better" or "yeah just play this one character with this very specific build and you'll do fine". This guy is saying that the game is suffering from a balance issue that's preventing him from having fun ie the reason ruin got changed. An opinion by the way shared amongst a large enough portion of the community that i can think of an entire sub community that agrees.
I understand how you feel. It will not get better.
Not until survivors complain there are no killers like they did last time there was a pity buff for killers.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Aside from already mentioned: Hatch spawned, EGC did not start, only one Survivor left, I would also consider the following situations as "Holding the game hostage":
1st:
Blocking a Survivor into a Corner until EGC kills them. Yes, the game can end. However, it is at least griefing to do that and I think the only solution should not be that you have to wait for your teammates to do all the Gens so that you can finally die. This can also take a long time, because they might not be on the Gen the whole time, but wandering around, looting Chests, cleansing Totems to get at least some Points and maybe just looking what is going on. If it is not holding the game hostage, it is at least griefing.
2nd:
3 genning a Team without any effort to advance the gamestate. So only removing them from the Gens without any intention to leave that area or to go for a chase to win. Yes, the Killer is protecting the Gens, but if he does not do any effort to get a Hook and just chases the Survivors away, there is no way for the game to end.
While I agree with body blocking, scaring survivors off a gen with no intent of downing them means the survivors can simply split up and do other gens. There could be something to the last survivor but the hatch closes and the doors are powered unless the killer stands on the hatch...
Standing on the hatch means the doors are unguarded though.
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@Prixusman I always suggest that if you think something is broken try it for yourself. Play the killer a bit, rank up and see how it actually feels. I'm not saying your opinion is invalid it's simply contrary to what I've experienced. Get some killer play in and make a better argument and the devs will consider it.
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I find tunneling one survivor on Freddy works too since as soon as they're unhooked just sleep them again. But yeah if you want to play the game you have to be a dick. Playing the killer isn't fun and as far as I can tell it's by design.
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As a killer main I took the opportunity in the after beta survey to say exactly this. Playing the killer is largely #########. The only way I can enjoy playing is at rank 20 if I try really hard not to do well.
Over and over the devs ignore or sidestep direct requests to stop punishing half the player base but they won't and as I see it it's super easy to understand why: there are more survivor players than killer players and they don't care if the game isn't fun for us.
If you agree do what I did, stop playing. If you don't nothing will happen. -
The new update doesn't include the hatch as far as I can tell. Personally this update doesn't do anything to help killers at all imo. To me, devs announced they don't care if killer gameplay sucks because survivors either ######### louder or are more important to them.