Pink_Ronin
Pink_Ronin
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@Onyx_0110 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/402964/alternative-paths-to-victory
I do think hatch should be reworked again but it should be something else entirely. Something like a side objective that is almost as difficult (but in a different way) as gens. So basically another game mode/alternative win conditions that aren't just a 'gimme'.
This kind of rework won't happen though. It takes these devs years to make simple U.I. changes.
I would be all for a rework that made the conditions for opening hatch more difficult while still allowing team hatch escapes to be a possibility. It was a fun objective that added variety to the gameplay and shouldn't have been completely abandoned
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Speaking as a solo survivor main since 2017, I think a big reason why NOED feels so cheap to play nowadays is because killer role is in such a stronger state than it used to be, that even making it to endgame is an accomplishment in solo queue. So NOED feels like a huge slap in the face for having well-played, well-coordinated match which is probably about 25% of the time, perhaps less.
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I have probably around 4k hours and same, I mostly get remarkably bad teammates and a sweaty 6k hour killer with annoying meta build that camps and tunnels someone out immediately.
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@Xyvielia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624338#Comment_3624338
isn’t DH for distance one of the reasons Coup De Grâce was created, or was it never a viable counter?
Totally not being a arse… I never used Coup, or DH more than a couple handfulls of times, and never tried, so I actually don’t really know. I just thought that was supposed to be the answer, but it never really caught on, or worked against old DH or whatevz?🤷🏼♀️🫣
Coup is literally DH for killer. It's unbelievable that it exists when old DH had to be removed.
If killers can lunge a great distance unexpectedly to shorten a chase, then survivor should be able to lunge for some distance to extend a chase.
I agree with OP, 2019 is the last year I enjoyed playing this game and I would go a step further and say Knight, Skull Merchant, and Singularity are all awful killers and the game would be better if they didn't exist.
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I always hear that old DH extends chases too long, but in reality it only gave you the possibility of maybe getting to a new loop. Same benefit as lithe, balanced, smash hit and many other exhaustion perks. If you use old DH and manage to get to an unsafe pallet most likely it's not buying you much more time, if you have it in a dead zone it's worthless.
So I reject the idea that it was press e = win, it's not even stronger than other exhaustion perks, I'd argue Lithe is probably stronger.
I do have some ideas to stop tunneling and camping, such as increasing the number of times a specific survivor can be hooked by giving survivors shared hook states rather than 2 hook states each. BHVR is never going to do something that drastic though, and killers are always going to tunnel and camp for ez win, so if that's the case I think survivors should have more of a chance to extend chases.
That said, back to my original point. If killers can lunge a great distance unexpectedly to shorten a chase, then survivor should be able to lunge for some distance to extend a chase. Bring back old DH
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621619#Comment_3621619
Well....
It's a 1v4. The more the killer can go for chases, the less tunneling and camping you will see. Ds made the killer waste so much time that they couldn't go for many chases. Therefore being problematic.
Coup allows the killer to finish chases faster. Therefore allowing the killer to go for more chases. That's why the Perk is not problematic in overall balancing.
Maybe you would have a point if camping and tunneling wasn't at an all time high currently. I don't think taking away survivors' options to extend chase is helping in regards to combat tunneling and camping, it's just making it easier for killers to have guaranteed wins by doing so.
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@Config said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622231#Comment_3622231
Bruh, don’t even get me started with dh discussion, especially if the intention is to defend old dh
I'm saying to defend coup if old DH is bad.
I think either we should have perks that allow lunging for extra distance for BOTH sides, or not at all
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621619#Comment_3621619
Well....
It's a 1v4. The more the killer can go for chases, the less tunneling and camping you will see. Ds made the killer waste so much time that they couldn't go for many chases. Therefore being problematic.
Coup allows the killer to finish chases faster. Therefore allowing the killer to go for more chases. That's why the Perk is not problematic in overall balancing.
I just realized I said DS I meant Dead Hard.
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You should be able to turn it off. I'm a grown man I can decide whether or not I need to be protected from words.
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I just don't understand how coup can exist and not be problematic, when old DS was considered a problem for granting the same benefit to survivors.
Killer lunge = good
survivor lunge = bad?
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@Pulsar said:
There can only be a punishment for tunneling.
There is NOTHING the Devs can implement that will be stronger than removing a player from the game in the first two minutes. Therefore, there is no way to encourage spreading pressure. Even if you made PR basekit and 25% for every Survivor not hooked twice in a row, people would still tunnel because removing someone from the match is STILL STRONGER
This is why I suggest remove the ability to quickly create a 3v1 game. Survivors, instead of having 2 hook states should share a number of hooks among them, and only when enough hooks have been made can survivors be sacrificed. So for example say it's 8 hooks that the survivor team has, 1 survivor could be hooked 8 times, after that 8th hook anytime a survivor is hooked they will be sacrificed.
This way there will be no incentive for the killer to tunnel and if they do it will be detrimental because patrolling gens will become the greater focus. If the killer does decide to tunnel it will lose a lot of pressure towards gens because by chasing one survivor they're no longer rewarded by creating a 3v1 scenario.
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@Xendritch said:
I don't see a video but I agree it's an extremely flawed solution that doesn't really work, it was basically made with basement bubbas in mind and nobody else.
And it doesn't even work in that regard when he can just stand at the top of the stairs.
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If autopilot is the argument being made here then you could say the same with tracking perks for killer. Why should killer see auras of survivors or make them scream and reveal location constantly to know where they are at all times? That's a little too ez mode to me.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Do survivors still need to be unhooked or do they automatically respawn somewhere after hooking?
The latter is the kinda removal of survivor-survivor interaction was one of the nails in Deathgarden's coffin. With that kind of life pool survs have no need to help each other, afterall that hooked survivor respawns by themselves. Just gotta rush objectives...
I don't think respawns are good, I think it's best if survivors still have to be unhooked. The penalty for staying on a hook too long and reaching second hook state would have to change though.
Maybe the consequence for not unhooking a survivor by the 2nd hook state, it would lose another life for the team, and the penalty can be increased the longer they stay on hook. So after they reach 2nd hook state once, the time restarts and if it reaches the 2nd hook state again maybe the team loses 2 lives.
Or instead of losing 2 lives, once it reaches 2nd hook state the first time and the team loses a life, the time restarts but it's 33% shorter, if it reaches the end the team loses another life.
Idk something like that
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@Annso_x said:
I think it would have the opposite effect:
-> Hooking the weaker link 8 times is easier than spreading hooks between stronger survivors
-> Tunneling a survivor off hook is much easier than finding, chasing and hooking other survivors
The best strategy would probably to hook someone 9 times in a row before moving on to the rest lol
That's true but you have to figure out who the weak link is first. It seems to me that most tunneling killers don't even search for the weakest link and just tunnel whichever survivor they're able to hook first.
You're right it doesn't solve the issue of the simpler option being to go straight for the unhooked survivor that is already injured, however by doing that the killer loses pressure on gens. 2 other survivors can just be working on gens elsewhere and so I think killer would be more incentivized to check gens than chase the same person.
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@spagz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594032#Comment_3594032
Yes, I also have around 2k survivor hours in the game. Not sure if you read the part about the perks that need to activate inside of a locker and everything else I do in game. I’m not afraid to take damage or a hook at all. It’s crazy to assume you know someone’s play style because they asked their teammates to not throw a game simply because they THINK I’m hiding.
You're the one talking about ppl getting mad about you hiding in lockers. I've got more than double as many hrs as you and I've never had that happen once. So naturally I have to consider you might be the problem. My goal is to get a 4-man escape so if I see someone not making gen progress or taking chases consistently it's not good. Efficiency is key and lockers waste time.
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@mustdogen said:
I think perk should having a cost system.
Like a perk cost 1~5 point, people can bring more than 4 perk if the total cost is not more than 12.
So perk will be more easier to be balanced.
Or if it is too difficult to coding, just make it that people can still only bring 4 perks.
But match making system depends on the total perk's cost
That's an interesting idea and probably easier to code than what I suggested.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593504#Comment_3593504
I literally had this same issue 2 days ago with a Kate. Did they have blonde in their name?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594032#Comment_3594032
I can only hope you're being sarcastic here. There are several perks that revolve around utilizing a locker, and lockers counter some killer perks such as BBQ.
Not to mention they can be useful in chases.
I understand they can be used to evade aura reading, I'm saying I rarely use them for that reason. Maybe if I'm in a dead zone, injured working on a gen and have a locker right next to me I'll do it, or if I'm the last one alive and I want to look for hatch without getting immediately chased.
If you're dropping whatever you're doing to go find a locker in order to avoid BBQ, then you're not a very good survivor.
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I've got thousands of survivor hours and I rarely touch a locker except to dodge a hit or remove crows. It sounds like you're afraid of taking damage or hooks, which is necessary in helping to support your team. I can't think of a scenario I would be in a locker instead of getting chased or doing a gen.
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Yeah I hear what you're saying, it's complicated because there's a lot of perks with mixed effects now that are hard to categorize, and fwiw I haven't fully thought this idea out.
Maybe for a perk like MfT, rather than disabling the stacking effect of other endurance or haste perks, you would instead put it in a special category for perks that are considered to be OP.
Then you could determine which perks belong in this category through a combination of observing the current meta, overall usage rate, and which ones are highly controversial in the community; and the perks in this "OP" category can take up an additional perk slot.
Like I said though I haven't put a lot of thought into how exactly this would work, and I'm sure others could bring up some issues this would cause of which I haven't considered, but I think there's a nugget of a good idea here.
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Basekit OTR + Unbreakable+ DS for a recently unhooked survivor. Or a survivor that has been hooked twice consecutively, something like that.
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Basekit OTR + Unbreakable + DS for recently unhooked survivors. Problem solved
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3585253#Comment_3585253
How about this.
I am defending it, because i don't use it, because it is a terrible perk. Any of the aura tracking perks are far FAR better at doing what you want them to do.
- Lethal
- BBQ
- Nowhere to Hide
- Floods of Rage
All of these are far better perks, Lethal gets you into a chase immediately and is great when paired with some other aura reading (like the other perks above). BBQ shows you where to go next right after a hook saving you valuable time. Nowhere to hide shows you if someone is hiding nearby, simply by kicking a gen with nothing else required and when combined with Lethal lasts a really long time, usually enough to help in an early loop. Floods of rage is the best when chasing, because it can often help you win a chase by giving you free wall hacks for several seconds.
What does UW? It has a massively long cooldown of 60 seconds (yes 60 seconds not 30) because you use it, then in order for the 30 second cooldown to start ticking, it needs to wait out the duration of 30 seconds. Meaning you can use it once a minute. On top of that it only makes the survivor scream. It doesn't show their full aura. So many times i can use it, and end up not actually starting a chase with the survivor you found.
You know what perk is a much better tracking perk than UW? Thrilling Tremors. It has the same cooldown, and gives you the same information BBQ does, and on top that actually blocks some gens from getting rushed, preventing a survivor from working on the nearby gen as you pick up the survivor.
What does UW get you? At the beginning of the match it is worse than Lethal, in the middle of the match it is worse than every aura reading perk because it doesn't show exact location, and it has a long cooldown. The only real thing it does is give easy blindness. Which, i'll agree is annoying in solo queue, but i generally think blindness as a mechanic needs to be completely reworked.
Your whole post highlights a larger issue which is there should be significantly less tracking perks than there are. Especially for Killers like Blight or Nurse where you can be right on their position in a matter of seconds you can essentially know where survivors are at all times. UW also can interrupt actions like healing or totem cleansing which adds additional value to an already OP perk.
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I'd prefer if there were no movement increases. No perks for survivor or killer to increase movement speed and no bloodlust.
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IF you can find a tape and find a TV to put it in without getting tunneled. Everytime I get a tape and I find a TV to put it in, she will TP to me without fail.
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@Carth said:
I mean, that's a slippery slope argument. Should I also be able to repair at 4.0 charges per second because in one game I got 3 teammates who refused to touch gens? How would that work when you don't have a team of potatos? Do you think it would be too strong?
The self-unhook provides no benefit with competent teammates. I don't see how that's a relevant comparison in any way.
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I use a reshade preset it looks way better
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@Alice_pbg said:
no.
a survivor on hook and a survivor having to stop what they are doing to go for the save is a big part of a killers pressure.
it arguably should not be possible without deliverance.
As it is right now it may as well not exist. 25% is still a massive risk if you go to 2nd hook stage you're going to get tunneled out and the game is already lost. It would only benefit solo which indisputably needs help.
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@jesterkind said:
No, this isn't a troll post.
It's no secret that Skull Merchant is a pretty disliked character overall, but the specific flavours of comments that you see about her around here tend to vary in severity and accuracy. For some, she has a clear flaw in her 3-gen strategy being overwhelmingly awful for the game and other than that she's just too weak to do anything else; I don't have an issue with this take. The take that I'd want to discuss here is the idea that her core design is fundamentally broken and can never work in DBD, necessitating a full-on ground-up rework at the level of what Freddy got all those years back, or possibly even more extreme. This take is just wrong, and I'm going to explain why I think that.
Now, before I begin, I want to make clear that I won't be going into much detail on how to actually fix Skull Merchant and capitalise on her potential (though I did make a post about that in the feedback section a little while ago). What I'm doing is pointing out what her potential is, and how her core design is one of the best we've received in a long time.
The first thing I think needs to be touched on is the distinction between core design, which is what we are discussing, and live balance, which we are not. The actual specifics of how a power is implemented, from specific numbers to the more granular effects that it has, aren't the same as the necessary core elements that make up the power's identity; to use a simple example, the necessary core identity of the Trapper's power is that he places down bear traps, but the live balance specifics would be how many spawn, how many he can carry, what exactly happens when a survivor steps in one besides immobilisation, and so forth.
Obviously, the Skull Merchant has a more complicated core design than the Trapper, because pretty much every killer that released after him does, but we can still apply that general distinction. If you can tweak it with number changes or very light adjustments, it's probably not the core design.
With all that setup done, what is the Skull Merchant's core design? Personally, I would break it down into two key concepts:
- Placing down AOE drones in key areas to capitalise on their effects, and;
- Those effects being versatile and almost modular in how much they change depending on what addons and perks are brought.
If we look at that, rather than the numbers and specifics of what her drones do on live, it's easy to see why this core design would work. It's a strategic and versatile idea, one that asks the player to create a gameplan before the match starts and craft their loadout accordingly. Even with some of the specifics we have, it's easy to see how she'd end up working; hypothetically, if numbers and specific addons were different, you'd get to build her for chase via setting up trap drones you steer survivors into, for chase via baiting survivors into hacking drones and then capitalising on the claw traps, for information via the drones being set up in pathways between generators or in spots that are difficult to reach, and for stealth via setting the drones up in those same pathways but using them yourself to get the drop on survivors.
Can she do all those things effectively on live servers right now? No, but that isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about whether the core of her design is something that could work, and it absolutely is.
When I look at the Skull Merchant's core design, I see the killer with the single most potential for genuinely varied builds in the entire game, and I see one of the most strategic killers we've ever had too. What I also see is echoes of the Artist; a killer with an insane skill ceiling and an incredibly well designed power, with a poor reputation because there's an almost braindead simple way of playing her that gets enough results for most players to never bother learning how to play her properly. The same is true of the Knight, albeit to a less extreme degree.
To repeat, I'm not going into detail on how to fix her issues and bring about this potential, that's a post I've already made and that'd be more suited to the feedback and suggestions category anyways. The scope of my little mini-essay here is just about the potential this killer design has, and how it's being overlooked as a knee-jerk reaction to how bad her 3-gen nonsense is.
It would be a shame, in my opinion, for BHVR to over-correct on the current issues and redesign away all of the massive potential this killer has, and I think the rest of the community could do with being shown what's possible considering how few people are interested in treating the Skull Merchant seriously as a killer. I hope to shed some light on that myself, here and elsewhere.
What is this a school project? Bit long in the tooth my man
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@Lobos said:
Stealth as a Survivor is generally pretty fun and tense at times. It's incredibly underrated these days and is also where new players will naturally start their learning progression.
Stealth is just another tool/skill in the Survivor Toolbox. When used correctly in certain key moments, it can positively effect the outcome of the trial. If not used properly or at the correct time, you just lose overall gen pressure.
I still occasionally enjoy Stealthing around and I have 1800 hours. I find it hilarious watching Killers searching lockers while I'm really in a nearby bush or behind a wall.
This is the truth. I am pretty good in chase but sometimes I can waste just as much if not more of the killer's time if I can hide effectively and have them continue searching because they know I'm nearby.
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@coco_shotz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520366#Comment_3520366
True but dbd has one thing that tcm doesn't and that's an original concept. The idea of the trials and the entity is behavior creating their own lore which gives them more creativity when it comes to making new killers and ideas. They also can have multiple different licenses due to the neutral lore. Tcm has a great gameplay model but a more limited source material to pull from
Ppl actually pay attention to the DBD lore? I might have to pick up TCM, DBD is beyond stale at this point.
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Kindred is the only perk that needs to be basekit, and only in solo Q.
SWF already has that information and more.
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@NuckinFutts916 said:
Camping and exposed perks? Make Your Choice requires you to not camp so which is it?
Hanging out within 32 meters of hook is camping when you can cover that distance in like 3 seconds, undetected. That's like saying a slinger or huntress posted up on a hill next to a hooked survivor is not camping, the distance is irrelevant if you can still hit someone going for unhook.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3517636#Comment_3517636
People have been hating blight & Wesker way before mft was a thing, and wraith haters are more numerous since the healing nerf bc it made hit & run more viable. So, no, not everything is about mft.
FWIW I like playing aginst Blight and Wesker and would take either of them over Wraith
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Cool story Hansel
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I never use WoO because I think it's a waste of a perk slot. Therefore I vote it become basekit
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You need to figure out if you're losing mind games, or you're encountering subtle cheaters because I believe that is rampant in DBD on both sides.
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Knight has more important problems to address over fixing this addon. He's already OP in chase and not in a fun way, but in a way that makes you question why he exists. The only thing that makes sense is killswitch along with the other killers who's powers make tiles obsolete (i.e. Skull Merchant, Nurse) until they can be reworked.
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Should have happened in the last patch.
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I might just be baked, but what if it's BHVR trying to up the cinematic quality of the game because they got Nic Cage in the game 😆
Like maybe they used a shot of Nic Cage getting hooked in a promo for the new chapter or something, and that's why we have this arbitrary camera angle change
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Onryo is annoying with her teleporting but she's fun in chase.
There is counterplay to her power that seems pretty fair so far IMO.
Let's keep our focus on the real issues: Skull Merchant, Nurse, Knight, and Blight (addons)
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/385073/tri-gen
Every killer can hold a three gen to some degree due to a combination of perks, powers, and addons. Some are much better at than others, but there are ways to mitigate it in most cases.
The one thing the devs did do was buff Deja Vu to point out a potential 3 gen cluster and give you a buff to repair so you can break up that 3 gen earlier in the game.
That takes up a perk slot though. If the devs want 3-gen to be a prominent part of the game then they should make deja vu basekit, or show the location of the 3 gens at the beginning of the match, so players understand that's the objective.
I don't think that 3-gen meta is healthy for the game though, and so naturally I think rather than put a band-aid on the problem like they usually do, the easier solution would be killswitch SM and Knight (and Nurse although not relevant here). The game would be healthier.
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I had a SM match that was almost 50 minutes long last night. She didn't even bother hooking just slugging and patrolling gens until survivors bled out. It would have lasted even longer if my last teammate didn't sacrifice themselves so I could get hatch. SM needs to be reworked and killswitched until that happens.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486770#Comment_3486770
No, im saying that single experience means very little. Even tho i get easy 4k as Trapper, i was struggling while playing against him. but i admit i suck in surv role, tho im not even as good in killer role.
This means very little.
What matter are things that are repetetive:
Great killer mains can get easy 4k with Blight, Nurse and Spirit.
Looping Nurseis different than looping Blight.
Lot of survs just suicide when seeing Nurse, they are not even trying.
What does all means?
I think Trapper is quite good actually, highly underrated. If you know how to use his traps properly and are good at forcing survivors into them, he can be very hard to play against.
He just doesn't seem good when you compare to top tier killers, who when combined with a strong perk/add-on combo my grandma could get a 4k and she's been dead for 22 years.
You said it yourself a lot of players suicide when they see a Nurse, clearly that indicates a problem. Granted these are probably bad/new players, most of the teammates in my lobbies seem to at least give an effort.
But I've been playing against Nurse since this game released and she was always strong. All the killers were easier to counter in the early days, but her especially, the current state of the game has her being way too OP.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486056#Comment_3486056
I have played Trapper. It was extremally easy to get 4k without perks and addons.
Does this means trapper is OP?
Are you saying Trapper is as strong as Nurse?
I was responding to someone that was telling me to play Nurse. I said I have and it was easy, and that I understand the counterplay and think it's nothing short of mental gymnastics to suggest that the current counterplay against Nurse is fair.
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@pseudechis said:
Don't think they are going to delete a fantastic killer with a unique design.
My advice is if you want to beat nurse then play nurse. You'll soon figure out how to counter her.
Its a good thing that some killers aren't hard countered by the same braindead looping that others are, it's called variety in content and its great.
I have played Nurse. It's quite easy to get a 4k even without aura-reading perks and not having much experience.
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@nars said:
she has counterplay you just dont know it. just because she stomps you doesnt mean shes op.
Maybe it's because I'm high mmr so I only play against good nurses.
A good nurse with a good build is near-impossible to survive in chase, I am aware of the counterplay, I'm saying the counterplay is hopeless against a good nurse
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The perk is fine and easy to counter. You aren't going to see it as much once Dramaturgy drops.
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This perk makes BBQ seem obsolete. In a solo queue lobby with players that are only good at hiding and can't survive a chase longer than 20 seconds, it's certain death.
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Every killer is a stealth/expose killer now it's awesome.