HOMOGRIMOIRE
HOMOGRIMOIRE
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@Alen_Starkly it does say in the base lore that Jonah knew he was deciphering the anti-democracy rebel messages, and that his work enabled them to target their bases. So, Jonah only knew he was providing information that would help combat the rebels. What exactly was done with that info was not up to him. He had no way of knowing that the encoded location was civilian, nor that the higher-ups were playing both sides to profit off the war and potentially get sacrifices for the entity since they were black vale. At this point in the story, he doesn't even suspect corruption in the government and couldn't even fathom them secretly intending to bomb civilians. So yeah, Jonah was the messenger, and he felt SUPER guilty about it, but ppl still wanna blame him and act like it was his intent to bomb innocent civilians.
But, to be fair, DbD has always been pretty hands it when it comes to lore. They've never told ppl how to interpret it, and I doubt they'd start with Jonah. Not to mention that US Imperialism in, presumably, the middle east/west asia, is a more explicit point in Jonah's lore and has become a very sensitive topic to talk about given the current political climate. I applaud DbD for tackling it, but since then, how its viewed has shifted and evolved, and i doubt they want to expand upon it now, especially given how tight censorship surrounding it has become. Like, they would NOT have been able to release Jonah with his current lore today without backlash. It basically states that there's a religious cult controlling the US government that has no regard for US citizens and is getting them to bomb ppl in west asia. So, i can see why they dont want to touch his lore. If they were brave, they would, but they're not, clearly and unfortunately.
And ironically enough, there was a leak from Dvveet that gave us an a internal position on Jonah, but, i doubt bhvr would appreciate me explicitly posting about the content of an internal leak on here, so, rip, lol. But, the way i see it, people are allowed to come to their own conclusions, even if particularly invalid. But also, it just stems from a lack of good reading comprehension. No amount of explaining will change people's minds cause they can't read. Not to mention said people just want something to hate and dog on. They don't hate Jonah because of his lore, they hate him cause he's something easy to hate. It's annoying, but, i can say I've tried, and theres no convincing those people. They're just straight up dumb.
Any how, i get his lore and like it a lot and love Jonah, so I'm happy while the haters aren't, and that's a win for me 🥰
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My idea since forever was to make old newspaper and reikos watch basekit, so that she has a viable basekit chase, and that survivors holding tapes have their bonuses neutralized, and cant be affected by any bonuses that way there's an actual downside to having a CURSED tape
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@stealthyflash67 Yes. I know the history of Jonah. Corrective action is only a perk youd use if you're playing with a friend who's new, so, bad. Overcome is a good perk. It's just that it's killer dependent. Exponential is good, but better in a swf environment, as most boons are. Otz does main Jonah. Rest assured, other people do main him, even if they're not as well known as him.
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@Smoe Yeah, i can see that. The backdrop/background to his character is something rather specific. As a mexican-american who lives/grew up in California, theres a history and story that I can see immediately and that i can find interesting, and I can most definitely say I had fun discecting his stories. And that in turn bumps his character and story up a lot for me. So, i view it higher than most, but i can understand why you and others would view it lower. Some stories will speak more to some, and less to others. That's just how it is.
And like, was Jonah a cog in an awful machine? Yes. But, he had no intent of harming civillians/innocent people. That sin would go to the higher ups. Jonah is a man of rules, logic, and order, he deals with the tangible. Being an immoral criminal isn't him. Not to mention when he started to suspect corruption, he wanted to learn more about it to kill it. Very much a case of a good heart with good intent being taken advantage of by a malicious force and being inadvertently/unknowingly involved in something truly awful. And through this he still felt guilt over the role he played and wanted to atone. Thats more than some other characters.
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@AGM I never said his lore needs a rewrite. Between his base lore and tome, i beleive he already has a good foundation/story. It just needs a touch more, which i did go over in my little easay up there.
Beleive me, I understand that a first impression is important and can be hard to break, but thats the point of this essay. I noticed that people's opinion on him stemmed from misinformation and poor interpretations, not because the story/presentation is that awful, and so that's why this essay exists: to correct that misinformation and give a different interpretation thats got some real thought behind it.
But yeah, i know this isn't going to change everyone's opinion on him, and thats fine. I dont have a problem with people not liking him. I dislike some characters for the simple reason of "just because" too. I respect it. I only have a problem with it when they hate him based on that misinformation and poor interpretations.
And it only seems like opinions on him have crystalized because no one's challenged them. At least to my knowledge, not in a substantial way like this. I only hope this changes people's opinion on him for the better. Not necessarily to have a good opinion on him, though I'd like that more, but to just have a better opinion on him. And even if no one is swayed, I will still be content because I tried, and because I enjoyed writing this analysis.
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@PleaseRewind Honestly real, like, this is a horror game about literal monsters, murderers, etc, many of whom got much worse wrong doings under their belts and are actually depraved in their character. Like, ppl shouldn't be that hung up over a survivor having some flaws, let alone ones based off misinformation. Here we are though 😭
But also, i personally find Jonah to be a very attractive man too. His default doesn't do him the best justice for sure, but i still like it. His hairline in his badge is also NOT it 😭. Its just that others might not considered him attractive because their tastes are conventional, and jonah might not meet those standards to them and thats might be why they don't like him and dog on him. Their loss though lol
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@UnicornMedal fair enough, you got your opinion on it and i got mine 🙂↕️
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@UnicornMedal Honestly, yeah, ppl probably just want some morality related excuse or whatever to hate him because they just dont like him, and like, if someone just dont like him, go ahead! You dont need to have some deep reasoning for it, you can just simply not like something. Idk why ppl just cant be like that. But, I got real tired of hearing people spread misinfo about his lore to justify hating him, so thats why i wrote this. Hopefully, it'll do something. I doubt as many ppl would actually hate him if they actually understood his lore instead of just listening to whatever misinfo dbdtwt has to spread. So, I'll just hope.
Unrelated to Jonah, i personally like The Importance of Being King. Though, i dont view it as a coming out story. I view it as a story about self acceptance. David doesn't really have people he needed/wanted to come out to. He's already estranged/disowned from his family without them even knowing he's gay, he's only got like, 2 confirmed friends, one he was trying to help clear the debts of, mentioned in earlier lore and not mentioned in his second tome, and the bartender Ric, who already knew and was trying to help David come to terms with it. Theres no one for him to come out to, and almost no one for him in general, because his internalized homophobia led to him isolating himself and lashing out at others and pushing Tristan away. That just leaves only himself. The only one that has to comes to terms with it is his self. So, it's a story about self acceptance. It just makes more sense to me and is more beautiful to me that way at least.
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Didn't play all the maps enough to give a full feedback, but i cant say ive heard much complaint about them before, so they probably didn't need any changing, additional pallets in particular. I can speak on shelter woods though. The entire perimeter is a chain of pallets and loops a survivor can run the killer on for most, if not all, of the gens. Perimeter pallets are fine when they're isolated, but not when they spawn near other resources that all connected to one another.
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Chapel is a monstrosity. Insane central main buildings with god windows, and now those windows chain into other pallets a few meters away and those pallets chain into even more pallets with spawns so ridiculous it feels like ever possible spawn has spawned. Same goes for disturbed ward, excep main isn't as strong, though still strong, but makes up for it with insane shack set ups. These maps genuinely didn't need a buff. They needed nerfs if anything.
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The perimeter pallets were a good addition. They add something to the infamously empty perimeter of the swamp maps. They're not strong and don't easily connect to anything stronger, they're as a perimeter pallet should be. On the flip side, the piers have become busted. They were already good places to run as survivor, but become much more stronger with pallets closeby to chain loops into. And funnily enough, there's still deadzones that can pop up even in the middle of the map. Overall, perimeter pallets are fine, a few additional pallets were needed, they just need to be better distributed.
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Ruins as a map is just plain flawed imo. Portals are almost like infinite use god pallets, and killer has a guaranteed 3 gen downstairs thats easily defendable with the ways to get down there very close to each other. Ruins inherit issues aside, Ground level was's additions felt fine. Perimeter pallets here give a survivor something without being strong as to chain into other loops or something strong. There's not an excess of them. Other additional spawns feel fine as well. The groundfloor was a tad empty prior. However, you could put 50 pallets up there and it wouldn't matter because a killer can just stay downstairs. It might be better to increase resources downstairs and decrease the ones up on the ground, but make the ground floor bigger to compensate. That'll make it more like azarovs resting place where its split and you have to decide which 3 gen to hold on a case by case basis rather than just immediately knowing to hold downstairs.
Borgo on the other hand, i feel like its actually a fine map, if only slightly survivor sided. Main being in an isolated corner feels fine. Has a decent window upstairs and drop offs for balanced landing and a god pallet. Once the gen is done and the god pallet is used both sides should largely ignore it. Theres definitely an issue where loops connect to shack window sometines, but that can be fixed by changing shack window to face the perimeter wall. Overall, map feels fine, maybe sometimes survivor sided, especially when pallets spawn close to shack and extend shack loops.
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Temple has felt fair. It hasn't even felt like its been changed much.
Dwelling on the other hand, feels like they just lifted 2v8's pallet spawns and threw them into 1v4. I dc on that map now. Its a big map, still one pf of the biggest even after its reduction, and just about every few inches there's a pallet. It doesn't matter gow good you play, survivors will always have a resource nearby that you will have to deal with. Worst map with density update to play imo.
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The pallet additions feel more fair on haddonfield. It had too little before, and all of its windows and main were nerfed. Even if there is a concentration in the street, it feels worthwhile to devote the time to get rid of them. The edge map pallets are good here too. Not too strong, not easily chain-able into other loops, and help make the perimeter more interesting.
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My biggest issue with resort was the sides of main. The loops that spawn, especially when they're double pallets, make the sides way too safe. The loops easily chain into each other while also being right next to main. Like other changed maps, the spawns make it so you can easily run the killer around the perimeter of the map. You can devote the time to get rid of resources to make an area safe, but by that point, your only option is to clear out an area for a 3 gen, but then theres the issue of one side being completly unsafe for survivor, and the other being completely safe for survivors, causing a boring stalemate.
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So i guess you could say IT/the deadlights are an aspect of The Entity, similar to how some divine beings work in some religions/mythologies. The same being, but different, like in Hunduism.
Or perhaps they are different beings, but for our intents and purposes, they are the same, just with minor differences, like the Greek/Roman gods or how very different religions will have analogous gods that can be considered equivalents of one another.
or perhaps the entity can be considered an evolution of IT. for beings such as themselves, why cant an older and newer version of themselves exist at the same time? The entity certainly isn't bound by time after all.
Though personally, i prefer the idea of them being of the same species, Ancients. The Ancients are mentioned in the observer lore about Terra Prime, his home. The peacefully floated through the sky, but we're left to assume they were killed. Likely by the entity, or other malicious ancients like it and the deadlights. Personally, i like to believe the ancients from bloodborne and God/the flower from Drakengard/nier are ancients like the entity, and to some extent sonnentreppe from RE having a connection to the ancients thanks to their flower motif.
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@Cetren said:
I disagree with the rarity change, however, I am heavily biased as I love the color of the blue items. Having a toggle for legacy item rarity kind of like that do for the bloody portraits for having people prestiged doesn't sound too hard though, I like that idea.
As far as the challenges go I really agree. Quests just sounds so generic. Which generic would be okay if this were some MMORPG we were all playing in, but we're not. It's dead by daylight. Rituals just sounds so much better and fits the theme of the game. It can't be that hard to include a little splash message when looking at the challenges for the first time that says something along the lines of "hey, if you complete these tasks during your games, you'll get rewarded with X." Then everyone is on the same page about it. But BHVR wants to cast a wider net which I can respect, I think better UI and tutorials will go farther in accomplishing that then renaming and recoloring things but, who knows?
i can respect that tbh. personally, im not a fan of blue, but it's mostly the fact that it is changing thats gonna bother me since im used to the current colors. like any big color change would've gotten this reaction from me. i can get wanting to get the game to industry standards too but also, I've played overwatch since about launch and apex for a good while before i played dbd, and they have blue commons or whatever, and ive never went "hey, where are the blues?" when playing dbd. But yeah, something like getting the games code to industry standard and more tutorials for different killers and such should be more important than changing things that are currently working and working fine.
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yeah, you wont get it after switching killers and sometimes wont get it after a match and have to go back to the main menu to get a voice line again, so sad 😔
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
This would just create a stale meta of probably Bill, Zarina, or Laurie for literally no reason. People will just switch to use their meta perks and go with the survivor (skin) that enables that build.
And even fans of "off-meta" characters like Jane now have an effectively dead perk slot in most cases. Or even a more popular character like Thalita.
And are we forcing a terrible perk choice for killers too? Or is this just for survivors?
Sure, it would mostly shift the more popular survivors to thosewith meta perks, but its only one perk slot, so its not particularly restricting since most characters have at least one viable perk. Plus, the idea is to let a survivor's character shine at least a little and to get people to try new things. people liked chaos shuffle because it forced them to try new things, so the idea isn't so outlandish. And even if survivors with meta perks are chosen more often, meta perks change.
But honestly, i wouldn't mind this restriction for killer either. It could even be a point of balance for them. Perks can alway be buffed/nerfed, and it makes it so running 4 slowdown is only possible on a select number of killers. And just like survivor, allows a killer's character to shine more, even though they already have their power, voice lines, and animations to show that.
So, sure it could still lead to low survivor diversity, but its an issue we already have and this could be something worth trying, at least on a ptb to see what happens. And i wouldn't mind it for killer. something to help balance some of them at least and show more of their character in game. Though, not every cares about character showing in game, so it's understandable for this kinda change to not resonate with people, killers especially.
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I think it's likely because his capacity for hope and his desire to protect others creates emotions far stronger than his violent and aggressive nature would. To quote the end of his second tome, "He's never felt so good, so free, so euphoric in his life. He lets the feeling flow past him like a gentle breeze and gets the sense that he's been born again, or born for the first time, and that before this night he had merely existed as a cardboard cut-out with little self-awareness except for the fear that had come to rule his life."
This and his desire to protect others is why he's a survivor. Perhaps if he never accepted himself and was taken, he'd make a better killer than survivor, but the emotions gained from killer David would be as strong as survivor David. We know the entity can see the potential to be a killer in someone, as it did with spirit vs her dad, so it also stands to reason it can see the potential to be a survivor as well, and saw greater potential in him as a survivor than a killer.
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@aprilghost_yt said:
A final plea against the condemned cooldown!
Hey guys! Was just doing some thinking tonight and I realized something about this version of Sadako that I find very problematic. It's a bit 'mathy' so bear with me here. I'll try to lay this out as clearly as possible:
Survivor interactions currently turn TVs off for 70 seconds. This is 10 seconds more than her first version. Keep that in mind.
Gens take 90 charges at base. I'd guess the average gen time is around 90 seconds between the push and pull of perks, but who knows. I'll assume 90 seconds here for the sake of argument.
Sadako is now limited by a 10 second cooldown between condemned stacks. Actually, because Sadako is only allowed to start her teleport at 98% charge on the power meter, the cooldown between stacks is closer to 13 seconds. Condemned is applied after the crawl animation finishes and it takes between 2 and 3 seconds to complete that animation.
Tapes have few downsides now- we've established that. But holding a tape does have one critical downside: turning off non-target TVs will inflict a stack of condemned. This can and should be the 'passive' condemned gained from holding a tape. To fully complete a gen in 90 seconds, you'd have to turn off a TV twice in that timespan- only eating one stack in the process. A fine trade!
On the PTB, if survivors did not turn off the TV twice, once the TV by their gen powered up again, they could gain as many as 4 full stacks before finishing their gen in the last 20 seconds. This is the punishment for ignoring the power of the killer and the counter. This is assuming the killer has 3 other TVs up, and somehow is able to teleport to EVERY TV other than theirs before finishing them off. This is an extreme outlier situation, and I'd say a rather skilled play from the killer if they somehow gathered that information and used it. It would also be a HUGE misplay from the survivor who ignored their kill meter slowly rising over the course of 20 seconds.
Currently, in live, in that last 20 seconds, if a survivor completes their gen and ignores the TV by their gen, they are only at risk of gaining ONE more stack. (they can't even inflict condemned twice in 20 seconds).
It's the exact same as turning the TV off. It's arbitrary. There's no risk of leaving that TV on after turning it off once.
This fact SEVERELY diminishes interaction between survivor and killer power.
In fact, (and if my math is wrong here idk sue me), you could carry one tape and complete 3 full gens while only 'passively' gaining 5 stacks in the process. HUUUUUGE nerf from Sadako 1, and combined with the decreased tape interaction time and hook lock-in nerf...
Condemned is dead in the water if survivors realize this.
And that leaves Sadako dead in the well- her chase power is minimal, that leaves her map pressure fairly inconsequential...
This 10 second condemned cooldown is a disaster for the character. PLEASE revert this, and please consider raising the curse lock-in with a hook to 3 or 4 stacks (or remove it altogether)
This exactly. Most killers, with a few exceptions, are at their strongest at release, or when they get a rework, because Survivors have yet to understand the counterplay. I'd argue that Sadako is at her weakest, weaker than even her first iteration. And as survivors adapt to her reworked power, she'll get even weaker. Against coordinated teams, she struggles greatly, and it'll only get worse for her as all survivors learn the counterplay.
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So, after playing this version of Sadako for a good bit, I will say she's not as bad as I thought she would be. Condemn lock, although a heavy nerf, wasn't as bad as i thought it would be, it feels like it doesn't matter all too much, but i think that might be because of how safe cursed tapes are to take. There's no downside to taking them, and with the 1 second time to insert a tape, its also safe for survivors to cleanse stacks right in front of you. And honestly, I'm alright with that change to tapes. Condemn is strong. If you put that time into going to your TV mid match, you deserve to cleanse some stacks.
My problem is that if stacks are easy to cleanse, then there shouldn't be a limit on condemn lock. A survivor has many things in their favor, if they get to high condemn and it's locked in, that's a mistake on their part, and it should be punishable by Sadako. Condemn lock hardly comes into play when tunneling is involved because if a survivor is being tunneled, the amount of stacks they have locked in is irrelevant. When a survivor is hooked, they lose their tape, so it's not like they can lose stacks for condemn lock to be relevant. In my opinion, remove the condemn lock limit and let survivors keep their tapes when being hooked. That way, if they're being tunneled via condemn, they can do something about it. Condemn lock does nothing to combat Sadako's condemn tunneling. Give condemn lock a bit of time before it locks in so that a survivor can make it to their TV if they were downed close enough to it, or give survivors condemn immunity for a period after being unhooked to prevent tunneling via condemn but still remove the tape. They could be immune to condemn until they perform a conspicuous action or are fully healed or after X seconds, whichever comes first.
My gripe with cursed tapes, however, is that they don't feel cursed. They don't carry any of the thematic weight they do in the source material. In game, their sole use is to counter Sadako's power. They don't even help spread the curse, unless you run one specific addon. With how safe it is to do tapes, i feel like there should be some sort of penalty they inflict. Not slowdown of course, but a little something to make a survivor think at least a little before taking a tape. I agree, it should be easy to do tapes and a survivor should be rewarded for positioning themselves good enough to cleanse themselves of condemn. However, with spreading condemn being weakened and condemn spreading less with tapes being the safest they've ever been, there needs to be something to make cursed tapes feel cursed and help spread condemn in some way, whether direct or indirect. Personally, I love the idea of tapes negating bonuses. Haste, endurance. gen and healing speed increases, gone. Or, even just reducing bonuses by 50%, something along those lines. Maybe they can reveal a survivor's aura intermittently while being held. If we wanna get crazy, have them inflict hindered while in chase. If tapes are gonna be easy to do, there needs to be some downside to them.
And a very personal thing I'd like for Sadako, making reiko's watch and old newspaper basekit. Sadako has the weakest chase of any killer. And i know it's because she has the threat of inexorable stare and mix of map pressure and slowdown her chase can't be strong. However, with doing TVs being as safe and easy as ever and the slowdown from it generally being weak, I think she needs some chase power. The current base numbers of Sadako's invisibility aren't enough to be viably used in chase. In my experience, which is many, many, hours using the addon combo, reiko's watch and old newspaper give a good and fair duration of invisibility that can be used in chase and to sneak up. Pure untrackable invisibility is good, but is ultimately a mindgame, one that survivors can adapt to when used in chase by winning the mindgame, or holding W. And for outside of chase when used to sneak up, with good enough game sense and her ambient noises, a player can still know when and where Sadako is approaching from and act accordingly. I will say that chasing while demanifested so that bloodlust can be built is good. Considering Sadako's chase ability, even with reiko's watch and old newspaper to extend invisibility, bloodlust kicking in when it needs to is nice.
As for condemn itself, i feel like it is just a bit too weak. While being able to teleport at will again does feel amazing, the condemn power timer doesn't feel as near as good. It has the psychological effect of wanting to use a projection on cooldown. It basically takes away some of the agency from the player by saying, "hey, use your power now, or be inefficient." It's not a good feeling for the Sadako player. And even if during the PTB a player could chain some teleports before going to the TV they really wanted to get to, so what? Survivors can counter that by turning off the TV Sadako is ultimately targeting. There's little downside to doing so. And even if there was a downside, such as negating penalties, and even if her chase was better via better invis, she still wouldn't be overpowered or as difficult to counter as sadako 2.0. Survivors have to be within range of a powered TV, and if they're holding a tape, can power it down in exchange for a stack of it isn't the highlighted TV. That 1 stack gained will likely prevent many more stacks being gained, preventing multiple stack occuring on yourself and any nearby teammates on.
On a minor, related note, TV spawns. Sadako does well on indoor maps due to most being multiple floors that condemn can spread through, making taking tapes to prevent getting condemn slightly harder. And with multiple floors and typical smaller perimeter, a breather effective percentage of the map has area in which condemn can spread. However, Sadako will have a less easier time spreading condemn on bigger maps due to a lower percentage of the map being an area where condemn can spread. Gens are more spread out, so TVs are too, and with more area, TVs are much less like to be close to one another. And uniquely, the swamp maps can have really funky TV spawns. Tvs never spawn at the main building, resulting in their associated TV usually spawning in a way that they wont inflict condemn on a survivor on that generator. However, it can also have some really close TVs, usually in the center of the map. Anyone running though that are is guaranteed to get a stack unless multiple survivors take a tape or return a tape to the 2-3 tvs in the area. Currently, the 10 second condemn cooldown keeps that in check so a person running though doesn't gain 3 stacks in the span of like, 7 seconds or something while in chase. Regardless, this is uniquely a swamp problem, I'm guessing because TVs cant spawn on slopes, and can be addressed accordingly. And regardless of swamp, it's nice that Sadako is stronger and some maps and weaker on others. That goes for any killer though.
I know I did a fair bit of like, complaining, but ultimately, as a Sadako main, I'm happier with this more healthier state of her. She might be weak, but she's skillful again. And now that she's back to being something more skillful to play, I hope she can be adjusted to be more viable, even just slightly so. Regardless, I hope this feedback proves useful, and thanks for giving our favorite Onryō and her fans some attention!
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548292#Comment_3548292
she still relies on game sense and accurate teleporting. it is just that not every teleport results in a hit.
You could use her invis add-ons to make her a competent chase/hit and run killer.
i don't really agree in regards to her being a competent chase killer. her chase was never really strong suit. it has not been improved in rework but it is not necessary worse either. it is around similar strength. the flicking is not very strong for chasing power. as a result, there is little skill input that killer can use to gain hits that he otherwise would get without using it. it is very much on survivor to play poorly for flicking to do anything. this was true before changes and it is still true post-changes.
Survivor counterplay if done correctly leaves you weaker than before. If you haven't realized that yet, play Sadako a lot more.
that is your subjective opinion. for me, she feels stronger.
Every killer relies on game sense to some degree, and Sadako relies on it a lot less now. A teleport never guaranteed a hit, old or new Sadako. And accurate teleports matter less now since even if it isn't accurate, it spreads condemn and applies pressure.
Also, have you ever tried playing chase Sadako and using reiko's watch and old newspaper to improve Sadako's chase? I agree, Sadako's flickering doesn't last long enough in most scenarios to do much, but that's only base kit flickering. Flickering with reiko's watch and old newspaper turns flickering into a competent chase power, letting you mind game just about any loop, even shack. And because of that, with the nerf to reiko's watch, Sadako's chase did get worse. No pallet stuns is good, but doesn't really help as much as good flicker usage would with the aforementioned add-ons. It's at least more skillful than just teleporting to a TV on cool down.
And of course she feels stronger. She's much better against soloq players, a majority of the player base. Against swfs and more skilled players though, she's much weaker than before. Her power is much more susceptible to being countered. Tapes are easier to return, it's easier to get rid of stacks, and a survivor turns off a TV longer than projection does, denying you teleportation to potentially vital areas more frequently. Just because she feels stronger for you doesn't mean she is either.
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@Archael said:
I think that Sadako should not have cooldown on her teleport, but instead on global condemn only.
Also. While she is partially visible while demanifest, she should be in chase, but gather bloodlust 0.5x as fast.
And she would be then much better to play.
You'll still have ppl projecting on that 10 second cool down, but it's a definite improvement. And at least that means it'll be easier for survivors to know what kind of Sadako they're going against.
And the nerf to where Sadako can't gain bloodlust while demanifested definitely hurt harder than one would think just reading the nerf. And tbh, it feels like an unnecessary nerf. The closest thing to Sadako's demanifestation is wraith in his power. Wraith already has speed, and can body block pallets and windows, so bloodlust on that is overkill if anything. Sadako can't body block anything, a plus if ppl are trying to take hits, but has no speed, which wraith can use to somewhat circumvent body blocks and block windows and pallets. Sure, Sadako can't be stunned by pallets while demanifested now, but demanifested doesn't have enough going for it to fully ignore gaining bloodlust. Gaining it at a reduced rate would be much more reasonable.
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@HansLollos2 said:
I believe they said, that the Rift Charms are "Unique Rewards" for People that manage to complete a Rift. So it won't happen i guess. But i hope that they reconsider it.
Yeah, I can get that. But at the same time, that kinda kits them on the same level as the legacy skins, a cosmetic item given to players who played enough dbd during a certain time period, and won't ever be obtainable again. And tbh, charms shouldn't be on that level, so hopefully bhvr does reconsider.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
sadako is in a good decent spot. she does not need any changes. her condemn curse is strong when utilized correctly but does not pose a threat when the player is incompetent at playing the killer. you should adapt to playing the killer in the new form.
All of this is besides the point. I don't particularly care if she's "in a good decent spot." The point was that I, someone who played Sadako a lot with her rework, was disappointed, and thought up the ways I would buff her.
"Her condemn curse is strong when utilized correctly but does not pose a threat when the player is incompetent at playing the killer." You can apply this statement to any killer. Just replace condemn curse with like, any other killer ability and it'll probably be true. Nurses blinks pose a threat when utilized correctly, but don't pose a threat when someone doesn't know how to play her. A majority of Blight's add-ons are strong when utilized correctly, but don't pose a threat if the player is incompetent at playing blight. Even trapper's traps are strong if utilized correctly, but pose no theat if someone doesn't know how to play trapper.
"You should adapt to playing the killer in the new form." I did, and found it boring and lackluster. Do you really think someone who poured hours into making and refining a power rework concept complete with an addon overhaul didn't pour even more hours into playing her after her rework? Get real. Let me tell you, old Sadako cared a lot less if you went against a swf, she relied on good game sense and proper usage of her TVs to teleport. You could use her invis add-ons to make her a competent chase/hit and run killer. It wasn't the easiest, but it required skill. Old Sadako wasn't easy to play, unless you were playing slugdako, but that's why I liked her. New Sadako's base game style is boring. Spam teleports, effectively tunnel someone out of the game if survivors are swfing or too competent. It's dull, easy, and potentially ineffective too. Survivor counterplay if done correctly leaves you weaker than before. If you haven't realized that yet, play Sadako a lot more.
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@Skitten56 said:
The person in the link you posted pretty much nailed it. She is absolutely less fun to play now. You either get easy wins from soloq/inexperienced players or your matches are even harder than before against swf due to the mobility nerfs. The reduced the viability of all playstyles except condemn due to the nerfs which makes her less interesting to play. The remaining viable condemn playstyle however is now boring to play since the new strategy is simply tunnel people with tapes and pretty much teleport mindlessly every 10 seconds. This is much more dull than the previous strategy and tactics required for condemn playstyles.
As a result Onryo is much less fun and interesting to play as. On the survivors side, it seems like many players dislike going against her as well due to how oppressive she can be if you are not fully prepared to counter her. 1 person not knowing what to do can easily result in a loss. The end result is just a less fun killer that is more restrictive and feels worse to play. Not to mention incredibly unbalanced.
I think my biggest complain is just how the rework feels unengaging. Before the rework I felt like the outcome of a match was dependent on my own personal skill and the skill of survivors; a competitive to see who could out best the other. Now with the rework it feels like the matches are decided on whether or not survivors know the counter-play and whether or not I can find the same person with a tape and teleport every 10 seconds. Totally dull and unengaging gameplay.
I sincerely hope BHVR reconsiders the rework and reverts pretty much all of the changes. They are just bad for the game and make it less enjoyable.
lol, that was still me, I just wanted to put it in this part of the forums too. But yeah, there's a lot less skill expression with Sadako now, and that's a major thing to lose. She's not as fun to play as, or against. Sure, slugdako was also annoying and unfun, but at least it was just one playstyle that wasn't forced upon you via basekit. Now, slugdako is gone, but it can still be just as easy, easier potentially, to get the same results as slugdako. I guess games can end quicker with current condemn sadako, so that's a plus for survivor, but hardly something to be proud of.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543710#Comment_3543710
But why do you think that nerfing Pig or Wraith was higher priority than some stronger killers like nurse/ blight/spirit/plague/artist...?
both of them were C tier in everyone's tier list, BHVR is looking at stats if something is both easy to play and very effective against average survivors then it's probably a problem, you can bet on it
I don't even think she's as bad as you claim against better teams you can see it on killer main streams or youtube, you can spam TP and hit some m1s against good players it's not hard, almost always 1 player out of 4 is going to fail to manage condemn and then it's a free win, and don't get me started on the slugging sloppy-knockout playstyle, literally unbeatable for solo Q
DbD's balance team is an enigma, there's no point in asking why anything tbh. But, of course she's good if you stack strong perks and the right add-ons. It's just that that play style isn't fun, to play against, and for me to play with. She's not bad, but at the higher mmrs or whatever, she's not that good either, so I guess we'll just have to disagree.
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@oreoslurpee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/391592/feelings-on-sadako-as-a-main
i, as many other sadako mains, spoke out immediately after reading the PTB patch notes. even OPW spoke out, even if he changed his mind later on. the rework shifted her power from being lore accurate to being not accurate at all and just made her become a HUGE pubstomper for new players, and is just VERY weak against good players. the only good change that came out of this was the TV cooldown buffs, she ALWAYS needed the cooldown buffs because it literally punished you for using your power. the tapes are not at all cursed and are instead just a protection shield for survivors to use, instead of placing a literal curse on the survivor. before her rework, the cursed tapes actually were movie accurate to sadako as a character as it takes 7 days to make you condemned for sadako. the current sadako is nowhere NEAR that.
all sadako needed pre-rework was the current TV cooldowns, basekit iri tape (A nerfed version of it, maybe 2 TVs turn on after 5s of hitting a survivor post projectioning), her lullaby should be removed, post projection movement is increased by 25% but bloody nails is nerfed to 25% to compensate (would still be the old 50% numberwise), and reikos watch & old newspaper should both be basekit but reikos watch should be a 50% basekit instead of the current 33%. also make the black outline on the HUD show up after 30 seconds of the match starting, unless you have telephone equipped.
literally this was all she needed, she took skill and all the rework did was dumb her gameplay down into being a mindless TV spammer. before the rework she had to actually THINK about where to teleport to, and she felt very fun to play if you knew how to use her properly & effectively. the rework only feels good if your against bad players.
Honestly, yeah, she just needed some numbers buffs to be made decent, and bloody fingernail and iri tape basekit to a degree if at all. A buff to her base invis would give her a respectable and chase, bloody fingernail is just a good qol buff, and partial iri tape basekit would just improve her map pressure to be more in line with the strength of other TPs. She had a solid power, they just started weak with it. Now her power is just braindead and boring.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543710#Comment_3543710
That's killers with side objectives in general. I just want to mention Pinhead and Pig here, who are always performing really well according to bhvr statistics.
True, but I feel like it's the worst for Sadako. Pinhead can at least get the box himself and has his chains for chase, which are not that bad. Pig's dash can be made competent with add-ons, and her traps don't require as much teamplay to get off
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543551#Comment_3543551
yeah disagree on everything, her stats will says it all she will get nerfed at some point it's not a if but when, she's way too brainless and effective against average survivors (vast majority), nurse always had somewhat low killrate because she's not that easy
No, yeah, I'm sure her stats point to her being strong, but that's because she's really good against solo q and any swf with a blow average skill level. A majority of players. Against them, spamming tp is braindead yet effective. There's a reason condemn builds were not fun to go against or engaging to play with, at least for me, and now that they've made that her power, she's just not fun for me.
However, she's weak against swfs/competent players, still an unignorable portion of the player base. At least with old Sadako, if you didn't care about condemn, you didn't really care as much of you went against a swf or not. There wasn't a whole lot more they could to than a soloq team could. They could be smarter with taking tapes, but that wasn't doing a whole lot, especially compared to now. Going against a swf is usually harder because they're coordinated and have comms, but that's a general thing not unique to old Sadako.
TDLR: She's stronger against the general player base, but a whole lot weaker against swfs and more skilled players, which wasn't a problem with old Sadako
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I was big hater of new sadako rework on PTB, because I thought it was overall a nerf.
However, after they buffed her and testing it better than just on PTB where everyone was mememing with Nic and trolling the matches, she is very deadly. She went from being the worst to A tier killer imo which is awesome.
They made her more unique and more fun to play for me honestly. There is no other killer that can ignore hooks and go full on her condement manegement with extra important side quest for Survivors to keep up or they will die.
She is the only Killer that has bad chase (basic M1 for the most part) but it's now balanced because her kit is very strong by occuping and being treath passively to all other Survivors. Only Killer in the game that plays differently and can ignore hooks entirely. She is weak in chase but still strong because her power isn't chase, it's the condement.
I think I like her now. They finaly managed to make a Killer strong without needing to have strong anti-loop or chase power.
Oh yeah, she was definitely nerfed on ptb. Tapes were heavily in the survivors favor until they changed them into what they are on live, and that was really all it took to make her strong. Though now, without condemn focused add-ons, she is still weaker than before. People know how to play against her and manage condemn and tapes now. If you're going against a swf with even just slightly competent players, you only got a chance of winning if you bring condemn focused add-ons, which is boring for her gameplay diversity. She's strong, yes, but only really against soloq. At least with old Sadako, any play style that wasn't condemn focused didn't really care if you went against a swf or not. So now that her whole power focuses on condemn, she's always near powerless against swfs/a decent team, and op against solo q/bad players.
Though, I can respect you opinion. If you find her fun, good for you, I just don't anymore :/
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@hailxsatanxeveryxday said:
I was one of the biggest detractors of Sadako's changes before I got them in my own hands, but I've changed my mind. They sounded horrible on paper, but my kill rate with Sadako is nuts.
Her playstyle has definitely changed completely. Contrary to what a lot of people here said after watching some YouTube video (most people here seem to get their opinions on things from YouTube), her condermned playstyle was not at all strong before her rework, and her high kill rate was because of people taking advantage of her mobility and playing her as an M1 killer around loops. Hit and run was also a terrible idea with her, despite the fact that you heard everyone saying she was a "hit-and-run killer". I would stack slowdown perks (Pop/CoB/Eruption/PR, back before CoB was nerfed) and use her power to proxy camp. It worked well, but the newly increased TV cooldown completely destroyed that playstyle.
Now, my main strategy is to just spam condemned all over the map as quickly as I can, which, when combined with four slowdown perks, Iri Videotape, and Ring Drawing, means survivors are either dying right off the bat, or they're spending too much time focusing on tapes to get gens done as quickly as I can regress them.
And, on the contrary, I don't know which aura perk you're referring to, but my secondary build with her is to run her Remote Control and Distorted Video with a mixed aura reading/anti-chase build (Lethal Pursuer/BBQ/STBFL/Bamboozle), and I get a lot of value out of them.
The thing about the new condemned mechanic is that, yeah, it can be very forgiving if you're not running Iri Videotape, but it also causes a fair amount of slowdown overall, and it only takes one person to fail to keep it under control to doom the whole team. If somebody dies at four gens left because that one person screwed up, that's it. gg. Nothing else the rest of them can really do unless you screw up and they all get incredibly lucky.
And it seems like there's always one.
Yeah, you and I played her a lot differently. Personally, I found success in playing hit and run with her, pre-rework. I mostly ran reiko's watch and old newspaper to enhance my chase and get easier surprise hits, and used nurses, sloppy, and pentimento + shattered hope when CoH was relevant. I'm not really a fan of using a lot of gen slowdown. I don't like going against it, so I don't use 4 gen slowdown. For that short period between her rework and the major CoH nerf, i switched pentimento + shattered for fearmonger + slowdown. Still good. Hit and run with her isn't exactly easy, I'll admit, but I liked that challenge, that made her fun to me. Though, using TVs to be able to spread condemn as a bit of a threat, and get into a chase quick/get a quick hit was something I did, that you can't do as much because survivors are more incentivized to get tapes and they put TVs on a longer cooldown.
The thing is, I'm not a fan of just going to spread condemn, i never was. That playstyle for her didn't interest me. Hit and run + using invisibility to mindgame chases was more fun and engaging to me. And now they've leaned into that condemn focus playstyle. Sadako might be very strong with the right build now, but strong doesn't equal to fun for me. Sure, i could get someone out at 4 gens, but by that point, it'll be a dull game, i can do that with any other high tier killer. And once a survivor goes at 4 gens, survivors usually give up. It's not much of a game, at least in my experience.
I guess the thing is that she's not really a macro character anymore. If you get a kill at 4 gens, even 3, you don't really have to worry about the macro of a game. Just the micro, focusing on killing that first person. The playstyle they're pushing onto us with her changes just doesn't appeal to me. I know this doesn't make too much sense since condemn focused playstyles are different from pretty much any other playstyle a killer can use, but she just has this generic feel to her now. My current build on her is a totem one with ruin, pentimento, plaything, and a flex slot, usually mindbreaker. Still messing around with add-ons tho, and experimenting w/ rapid brutality + more chase perks rn, but I'm still just messing around. Still, it's a generic build that'll work on any killer. But, who knows, maybe the devs will hear and make some changes again to her.
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@radiantHero23 said:
A lot of dedicated players, myself included, said all that on the PTB feedback back then. We all got ignored.
Now we have to deal with this, because it doesnt seem like she is getting reverted.
Btw... Ive stopped playing her except maybe one round a week.
Yeah... I don't think anyone that actually played her, except for like, one or two people, was excited or looking forward to her rework. Which is like, kinda sad. You'd think the devs would see her existing player base be vocally against it and maybe think twice or hold off on the rework. Right now, I'm still trying to find a build i like for my play style to try and make her work, but it's not looking good so far :(
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Another alternative is something that's in overwatch competitive. If someone DCs, they receive the penalty, and anyone is free to DC after a certain period if they don't reconnect. Of course, these are very differnt games, but dbd could benefit from something similar. Perhaps in addition to this, if a survivor DCs, you can DC without penalty after x minutes or whatever. It's good to have your bases covered after all.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
I tend to think the same.
He is not an “empath” or “healer” IMO, he is a fighter. They could have done something more creative along the lines of what you suggested.
Yeah, totally. WGLF is good for showing that altruistic side of David, but it's new affect feels like it leans a bit too much into a healer/support role. His role with his perks is more comparable to a tank, taking hits and making space for the team. It's new effects is something I would expect Claudette or Yoichi to be able to do. David isn't a utility character like Dwight and most of his perks either. Still, it is nice to see WGLF buffed.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Imo all survivors should have the same stat total
Yeah, I was thinking that, to keep things balanced and prevent one survivor from being truly better than another. If I were to do that, I'd maybe bump the score limit up to 7 and have the totals cap at whatever the average would be. 24, since that would be what a survivor now would score with pure Average, all 4s.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3013817#Comment_3013817
Yeah but the popular survivors are popular because they're popular.. i.e. they're populars, therefore they get more skins, they get more skins, making them more popular. (notable examples: Meg & Feng)
Also tits. So my main guys Jeff and Adam won't ever get much love aside from the occasional outfit, whereas Meg and Feng get them all the time. Can't blame them though, these characters get them money. It would be nice to see more diverse outfits for other characters though, Jeff only has rock t-shirts or leather jackets.. And Adam only has raincoats and stupid sweaters..
Yeah, it's like an echo chamber by this point. Why do they get so many cool outfits? Because they're popular. Why are they so popular? Because they get so many cool outfits. It's a never ending cycle that leave little room for any that isn't favored. And yeah. Women sell. Just look at the gender ratio of any gotcha. Money does speak, have to admit.
I will say though, you've got good taste in Adam and Jeff. It is a shame they don't have variety like the others.
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@Marcavecunc said:
That's not going to happen.
They pretty much said so in the past. Perks are one thing, specific characters having bonuses to this and that, no.
I don't remember where/when they said so, but they want to leave survivors as reskins, to prevent people always picking the same survivors and flat out ignoring the other ones.
I can believe that. It was probably during an old dev stream. I can get why though. Just look at the perk meta, especially for survivor. Lots of people will just pick what's strong. The funny thing is though, lots of people pick the same survivors and ignore others already. Some survivors are always just gonna be more popular than others, and that's unavoidable. But, I do wonder how a concept such as this would affect survivor pick rates. I suppose we'll never know though, lol.
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Some edits to the concept:
Temperament - Survivors with Very Poor Temperament suffer a 5% Penalty to any cooperative actions they perform, and skill check success zones are reduced by 25% while cooperating with others. Survivors with Poor Temperament suffer a 2.5% Penalty to any cooperative actions they perform. Skill check success zones are reduced by 17.5% while cooperating with others. Survivors with Good Temperament receive a 2.5% bonus to any cooperative actions they perform. Skill check success zones are increased by 17.5% while cooperating with others. Survivors with Very Good Temperament receive a 5% bonus to any cooperative actions they perform. Skill check success zones are increased by 25% while cooperating with others.
Readiness- Action speeds include Repairing, Cleansing, Healing, and killer related actions such as searching Jigsaw boxes and destroying Demogorgon portals. Survivors with Very Poor Readiness have their action speeds reduced by 10%, and survivors with Poor Readiness have it reduced by 5%. Survivors with Good Readiness have their action speeds increased by 5%, and Survivors with Very Good Readiness have it increased by 10%.
Overall, the bonuses and penalties to action speeds have been lowered. It should be less of a bane to have a low score in those stats, and less of a boon to have a higher score in those stats. This is most aimed to prevent gen rushing and prevent people from only choosing survivors with high readiness and temperament. Temperament's affects to successful skill check zones have also been lessened to prevent skill check from being too small among survivors with poor temperament and luck.
David and Nea's stats have been slightly adjusted. 1 point of Nea's Stamina has been reallocated to her Temperament. Streetwise affects both herself and other survivors, implying a degree of sociability and willingness to help others and show them how to properly use their items. As such, Temperament has been bumped up to 2, and Stamina has been bumped down to 4. I chose stamina because her points in Deftness are to befitting to reallocate elsewhere
For David, the values of Stamina and Deftness have been switched. No mither implies a really great stamina, and while likely very deft, David is not a small man. He isn't lithe, and it's harder to be more agile or graceful when you aren't. Overall, its just a small change to make his stats slightly more befitting of him.
Lastly, some more examples!
Bill - Like Laurie, well balanced. [I don’t know much about his character from his games, so most of this will be conjecture.] His stamina is higher because Unbreakable implies that. While he recovers faster than David’s No Mither, Unbreakable is one time use as opposed to No Mither’s infinite self-pick-ups. Strength is a 4 because he’s a former Vietnam vet, and he seems to have taken care of himself since and kept his strength up. For the same reasons, his other stats sans Deftness and Luck don’t fall below three. Temperament is solid 3 because he got along well with his group in his game, but isn’t higher because its easy to imagine the more rebellious types to not like him. Readiness is also higher because he survived a war, and then survived for a good amount of time in a zombie apocalypse. The little base dbd lore we got for him also suggest he was very ready for The Fog and what awaited it. Luck and Deftness are low to keep his stat total from surpassing 18, and are the only stats that don’t have a particularly notable reason to be higher like the other stats.
Feng - Deftness is high because she has Lithe as one of her perks. Readiness is also high because she’s a gamer. The trials are perhaps basically another game to play, if with greater stakes. But as a gamer, she’s probably been desensitized to violence. For the same reason, because she’s a gamer, strength and stamina are low. She certainly doesn’t work out or work to gain muscle in any capacity. Stamina is a 2 because, as a gamer, she’s certainly pulled all nighters and streamed for hours upon hours nonstop and that at least requires some mental and physical stamina. Temperament is at a 3 because she was a pro at team based video games, and was a popular streamer, but kinda fell off, as we can see in her base lore.
Quentin - He has a readiness of 5, only matched by Dwight. Dude’s dealt with freddy, stole drugs from a hospital, helped figure out what happened with him and the others at badham, which happened years and years ago. You think he’s scared of The Legion? Pig? You get my point. He’s a chad. However, stamina is low due to his insomnia, and strength is low because he doesn’t look particularly strong, but doesn’t strike me as utterly and pathetically physically weak. All his other stats are balanced, average, but could be modified to better suit his character since i don’t remember his movie all too well. I just know he’s a chad.
Tapp - Poor temperament because he was too obsessed with Jigsaw, which led to a failed marriage and the loss of a job and most of his social life. But past all that, he doesn’t seem too bad. Stamina is his standout stat because he does survive a slash to his throat and Tenacity giving faster crawl speed while allowing to recover and crawl at the same time supports that he has good stamina. [More rather, a strong will, but he needs a good stat, so stamina it is.]
Kate - Despite her stature, I give her strength a 3 because she has boil over, which implies a degree of strength. Temperament is a solid 5 because she just gets along with people and puts them at ease. She’s basically a ray of sunshine, a bolt of lightning, as described by Benedict Baker most likely. For that same reason, she takes poorly to trials and has a readiness of 1. She’s a shred of fleeting light in an infinite abyss of darkness that reveals nothing and bright light that drowns out all else and blinds like the sun. Just a singer, and while also a country girl, I don’t think she got the skills to do well with a trials objectives. Deftness is a 4 to reflect Dance With Me, which temporarily eliminates scratch marks after performing any fast action. Stamina is a 3 because that seems about right given her background, and luck is a 1 because she didn’t have many points left to allocate around.
Adam - But a simple high school teacher. As such, he has the people skills to work with with all kinds of people, but his focus is on high schoolers, which most survivors aren’t, so a Temperament of 4. Stamina, and deftness are on the lower side because he is the academic type, and there isn’t anything to really imply those stats should be higher. Strength and luck are average because they seem about right for him, and he needs some points. Readiness is solid because he’s suffered trauma before, and has the intelligence and focus to learn how to do objectives and actually do them decently enough.
Jeff - The only other survivor with a strength of 5 aside from David, and he has a rather different statline, so players who favor that high strength have a different option. Hs strength is 5 because he looks like he’s got a lot of natural strength and has worked out, and has a rowdy background like David. Breakdown, which shows him breaking a metal hook, is also indicative of this. His high temperament is reflective of Aftercare and his easy-going nature. He seems like he’s chill and easy to get along with despite how intimidating he can look, unlike David who is intimidating and not easy to get along with. But like David, his readiness is low. And for a similar reason like him and Claudette, I feel like seeing others suffer can weigh down too much on him. Though, its lower than theirs because none of his perks or his story indicate he can better help with objectives. Deftness is low for the same reason as why I lowered David’s deftness. He’s a big guy, and he has nothing to indicate deftness like David’s Rugby days. Stamina is similarly low because he is an avid drinker a big guy who perhaps only works out for strength, and there isn’t anything to indicate his stamina would be that high. Luck is average because he needs the points.
Jane - Her strength is 4 because of head-on. She literally stuns the killer with the locker doors and her body. Also, she strikes me as the type to do light work out sessions to keep herself healthy. She’s worked to keep those thighs thicc. As such, her stamina is average. Her high temperament is reflective of Solidarity and her job as a successful talk show host. She knows how to connect with people and is charismatic and approachable. Simple enough explanation. Her luck is low not necessarily to reflect that she is unlucky, but to reflect that she didn’t need luck to succeed in the entertainment industry. She could have piggybacked off her mother’s career, use the luck of being born to a parent with useful, relevant connections, but didn’t. She only needed her own skills and determination to succeed. Readiness is low because she’s just a talk show host, and there’s not much to indicate that readiness. Deftness is low for reasons similar to Jeff.
These are pretty fun to do, so I'll pry do one for all survivors, but this is all for now. You got anything to say, don't be afraid! I'd love to hear it.
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I haven't used the build in a while, Huntress with her lullaby, Unnerving Presence, Distressing, and a fourth perk of choice, corrupt or undying usually. I just liked the idea of her song be a thing that actually terrified survivors and made them mess up.
Insidious T3 Myers is also fun, even though I haven't played it in a while too. What i like to do is pop T3, chase for a few seconds, maybe down someone and hook them, round a corner to disappear from view, and hide in a place I know Survivors with pass by or return to. I'll only camp a hook if the trial is going like really bad for me. But otherwise, choke points and gens are a good place to hide. Works best on indoor maps, and very fun for scaring survivors.
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I like to think of it as an ironic form of mockery, like how The Entity made The Oni an oni, which he detested being compared to in life. But, a part of me thinks Doctor might not mind. He probably even finds it hilarious too. Hell, it might even be a conduit for his power, since in life, his greatest strength was his mind. His power is called Carter's Spark, spark being a reference to the phrase, "a spark of genius." Thus, we can assume his power still stems from his mind, just as it always had. Only now, he can perhaps use the electrical signals in his brain and amplify them via the apparatuses on his body to create the static charge and blast we see in game. And again, this irony probably isn't lost on The Doctor. The very same tools he used on victims are now used on himself. Except instead of harming the wearer, it now harms others. It is perhaps also a symbol of what he is to The Entity: another thing to play with and watch with glee. He is her patient, although they have a better arrangement than the ones doctor had with his patients. It's also a reminder that if he no longer proves useful or entertaining, she will dispose of him as he did countless others.
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@Annso_x said:
Honestly that would have been neat had it been implemented since the beginning. I can't imagine this being implemented now, too many survivor mains would be unhappy about the survivor they've spent their money on not getting the best stats, and too many killer mains would be unhappy about facing the same op survivor all the time. Also kind of unimportant but the lesser used survivors would probably never get an outfit ever again lol.
Pretty cool concept tho. And happy to know i'd still be maining Jake if the examples you've given were implemented haha.
Oh yeah, this is something that if implemented, should have been done towards the beginning. I could see it be something they have on the ptb or on the love servers for a week to get player input on it though. Survivor needs something new to spice it up, but this does have the potential to be rather controversial among the community.
It wasn't my intent to make any select few survivors OP, just to encourage certain play styles with certain survivors and encourage survivor diversity, but those sorts of things tend to happen. Fostering survivor diversity isn't an easy goal to reach though, I suppose, lol. And even if stuff could be nerfed, many people will take anything that shows to be more advantageous.
In an ideal environment, this results in more survivor diversity, making it so the killer can develop a knowledge of survivor stats and play styles as opposed to just knowing perks. People will still pick their faves, or get a new fave after playing them in the play style their stats encourage. So, all in all, it would be a benefit to the game. However, this ideal environment is probably unlikely to happen with the way stats are in their current iteration at least.
But all that said, I still like the concept too. I tried to be objective with my two mains David and Dwight. I'd still play them both despite preferring a balanced play style.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
I admire all the effort put into this. Sadly, it will end up like the META perks we have at the moment. You may only see the same exact survivors over and over based on their stats, so i don't think it's a good idea.
The game isn't designed with your idea in mind and if you add these stats, they would just break the game entirely and you would have to redesign it from zero.
That's true, and very possible, but perhaps only at higher mmr. I'm sure people will still play their faves. I think you'll still have your bunny fengs, mikaelas, and whatnot. We still have people who play David and Jeff despite their larger hotboxes and play Jane despite her loudness. People will play who they want. But at the same time, a lot of people play ace for his quietness and Feng for her smaller hitbox. So, you are right, but it isn't like people don't pick the same survivors already. Stats will affect survivor pick rates but to what degree cannot be seen, I think.
Though, you are right. It isn't designed with this in mind. Vault build speed with David or Nea could be broken, and they will recover uber quick with unbreakable. Dwight with prove thyself and a single other person will make gens fly like never before if left unimpeded. Let's also remember 4 of the same survivor can be in a matched and abused by swfs. But, this is just a concept. The numbers and effects can be altered and so can perks. I agree that it could break the game, but I don't think it would break it entirely.
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@Anoniemoose said:
After the perk rework it might honestly not be a bad idea. Unfortunately this may lead to some survivors being picked more frequently over others, as the "luck" stat is really only good for item hoarders. The sweaty players would all pick the surv with the best Temperament and Readiness to get games done faster. And even worse still, BHVR could make survivors in Licenses with outright better stats then freely available characters if they felt like it. Still +1 for effort though.
Honestly, that's a very real possibility. My intention was to incentivice people to play survivors the normally wouldn't play, but a decent amount of people probably would just play the one they find the strongest. Then again, if we look towards the killer side, we still have people who play Myers, Sadako, and Clown despite there being "stronger" killers. So, there will be people will likely still play their favorite survivor.
To counter the powercreep that could happen, stat totals could be capped at 18 like they are here, kept in the 16-18 range, or all survivors could have a total of 18. And again, they just supposed to be small bonuses or penalties that reflect their character. The specifics of a problematic stat can be nerfed to be so that the bonuses and penalties are much smaller, making the difference between survivors smaller.
Also, someone like Dwight, with high temperament and readiness, has a very poor chase. A smart killer will target him. Even if there are 4 Dwights, chases should be more easier. 10% vaulting speed penalty is not to be underestimated. Survivors run vault speed builds for a reason. With his low strength, his pallet stuns won't last long and he'll make less distance with one. But hey, thanks for your point of view!
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I'd put it somewhere with the Demogorgon and Nemesis. It's intelligent yes, but does it have free will and thought? No. All it's thoughts center around the hunt and the orders given by its boss. In that sense, it's also like the nemesis who you could probably rank close by, minus the weapon wielding it does in canon [because apparently, weapon and tool use requires a good amount of intelligence.] Demogorgons haven't been shown to use tools, to the best of my remembrance, but are intelligent enough to set traps and prioritize objectives over other ones. Dart, Dustin's demodog, shows the extent to which Demogorgon's minds grow and learn from experience. Dustin feeding it candy in it's youth was enough to establish a link in it's mind strong enough to overpower the mindflayer's commands. I don't know much about nemesis, but it too is smart. Tool use, objective selection, adapts to obstacles. It's smart, but that's about the extent of it's intelligence.
The Dredge, unlike the other two, has no material from which we can derive it hunts besides how we play it. We should first ask what is the dredge? is the flesh emerging from the darkness, or that darkness itself? If the latter, then it is certainly smart enough to create a physical form that meets its needs from the mass of flesh it has collected. We must also remember that it is the dark thoughts of a community made manifest. Thus, unlike the others, it is capable of a limited range of emotions, most of it likely negative as indicative of the sounds it makes and its default arm flavor text that says it wants revenge. It is capable of forethought and strategy, using lockers to cut off survivors or to travel to another objective to deal with it. It knows when to switch targets, spread damage, and fear. It knows how to incite fear, as we can see from its twisted plaything flavor text. The other two don't seem to have incentive to create fear, only kill.
TDLR: It's smart, on the same general level as The Demogorgon and Nemesis.
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@Crowman said:
It's not really a bug. Gens that are already blocked don't get blocked by a new gen blocking effect. So the gens were only blocked by Thrilling and were not affected by Grim Embrace.
This makes stacking gen blocking perks a double edge sword, because you can screw yourself over.
True, but like, you would think Grim Embrace would continue blocking them or something. Kinda sucks that happens, cause that's the whole point of Grim Embrace. The obsession aura reveal is just a side thing and not the main draw, if it even procs.
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I totally thought the same thing. Throw Drakengard/NieR into the mix, things seem more likely. The unseen antagonist god of the Drakengard games has a close relation to flowers, The Flower being it's creation and the final boss of Drakengard 3 and Lunar Tears, bioluminescent flowers that don't seem to need light to grow, are present in Nier bearing a resemblance to The Flower. In NieR:Automata, we learn that machines, influenced by the DrakeNier god, killed their creators, the aliens who were described as infantile and plant-like. I don't know much like Bloodborn/ the Souls games, but I know the Moon Presence has an association with its flowers, and there are infantile gods. The DrakeNier timeline is pretty crazy too, especially when you get into theories about it. The Entity is theorized to be plant-like in canon lore, and has an association with its pustulae flowers and is cross-dimensional like the DrakeNier god. So yeah, The Entity is a Great One. I'm pretty sure that all these Ancient Ones and Great Ones and what not are interdimensional in nature, so like, of course they're set in the same universe, so to speak.
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same thing happened to me with a huntress, lol