Upcoming SP nerf makes no sense
The Self-Preservation nerf notes read like this:
This logic is nonsensical. If the issue is killer perks, SP counter one whole aura perk, BBQ, which can and is also countered by lockers. It partially counters Friends and Alien Instinct, but not fully. With this nerf, it will still do those exact same things. A killer that's clinging that hard to aura will still go back to the hook.
If the issue is that they get into chase with someone who has no scratch marks, that person still has 15s to prerun and hide when they hear the terror radius. So nothing changes about the initial effect. Also, I'm not sure why the devs care if the killer goes back to the hook, since anti-tunnel is something they keep rejecting and nerfing.
What SP does allow for in 30s is for the user to safely get across the map for an unhook, and with the added Elusive on unhook, returning to the hook if the unhooker has SP is now countered, as there will be no scratch marks at all. So this reasoning is either completely untrue and is just to hide that they're caving to complaints, or it's not thought out at all. This perk has the opportunity to be more tactical than ever with the recent basekit changes and instead it's getting nerfed into near uselessness, really good solely for personal ratting and not for macro.
And if this goes through, it will make two for two of Yun-Jins reworked perks getting the hammer treatment. What was even the point of reworking them?
Comments
Love how this update SP got cut in half and StB got murdered in the back alley with most of the other survivor perk changes honestly being closer to QoL updates rather than meaningful buffs, while most of the killer perk changes make them actually strong and some of them might contest the meta.
I like to see more perks becoming viable and strong, but survivors got the short end of the stick once again.
Yeah, but it's always the same story at this point. Even in this "meta shake-up," most survivor perks just got tiny percentage buffs on perks that were completely useless to begin with, while the rest are straight-up nerfs to the few perks actually worth running (WoO, StB, Self-Preservation, FMA, Stake Out, Borrowed Time...).
Meanwhile, tons of killer perks got massive buffs (Whispers basically giving a FLAT 5% Haste to the killer just for roaming the map now).
The QoL of life updates were a very 'oh, seriously, you got me again BHVR'. This change could/should have been done in any random patch. But to include it as part of the 'meta' shake up to justify how many perks are being changed is eye roll worthy.
Killer playing in an unhealthy manner? Obviously we need to nerf survivors. I'm sure people will switch to playing killer in a healthy manner right away. Well, maybe just a few more nerfs.
They literally explained it to you. It can lead to situations where the killer goes back to hook because if a bunch of survivors are running it where else can you go? Like anything its another perk where, by itself isn't a problem, but if 4 survivors stack it, it is suddenly a massive problem.
Not to mention the prelude nerfs of SB, Vigil, Deli, and the basekit BT losing 5s. I'm so puzzled by the reasoning of ruining almost every good survivor perk while the killer meta goes mostly untouched. Like how many people do they want to quit the role? Because I'm being pushed more and more away from it with each A tier killer release and survivor nerf.
And yeah Whispers and Distressing are about to reward killers just for existing. Funny how many complain about that same free value on the survivor side. Truly the motto of this community is "rules for thee but not for me".
And tell me how that changes with it having the exact same trigger.
I’m fine with them giving self preservation a slap on the wrist. It sucks to play with in solo queue encouraging rat plays, and hangs everyone else out to dry.
Good perk if everyone is running it, but has the potential to be detrimental if one person runs it and never takes a chase all game.
Definitely a hard perk to get right in the current state of the game.
Tunneling buffed.
Regression buffed.
Killer chase massively buffed.
But at least they reworked Thrill.
Take your token effort and stop whining, survivors. We'll get to slugging… not now, since it's almost the holiday, and we can't do updates within 2 months before or after Christmas for some reason, but April, we'll look at slugging again. Probably to buff it.
Having it last half as long means that you don't just get elusive randomly for a long period of time. Its purpose has turned into a perk where, when a survivor gets hooked you have a short time of elusive where you can run behind the killer, quickly get into position for a quick save rather than being something that you get to use in chases or to just hide when the killer leaves the hook to chase another survivor because by the time the killer starts a new chase the effect has likely worn off.
Yeah that's totally what people are going to do with this perk. They won't use it to hide from aura and do even less of anything else. They're gonna do the thing Cross Examination was meant for instead. Absolutely gonna happen. The shorter protection means they'll just get braver! Because that's what stealth perks are for. And what's better than quickly unhooking someone right behind the killers back because your perk is running out? Truly such a good change for survivor.
I fully agree with this one, I even made a post about how this perk is unhealthy and now the developers are using one of my points and shortened its duration. It’s even funnier that the devs agree with me when on my post most people cried and said it’s fine without proving any of my 10 points or so wrong. I still would have preferred if the perk would have gotten a rework for that except same reason but I take what I can.
Edit: Just downvoting this without saying something just proves me right about the crying part, the devs took my point in the patch notes where others disagreed, I won from my pov.
I think it means if multiple people runs it, the 30s duration is so forgiving that Killers cannot find anyone when patrolling, and then proceed to go back to the hook and camp.
I feel like I should remind you that elusive isn't JUST anti-aura but rather anti-tracking in general. It counters even basekit tracking like sounds, bloodpools and scratchmarks.
It's crazy to point to whispers as an example of a massive buff, 5% haste when 24 meters away from any survivor is gonna be very hard to notice, over a distance of 100 meters it's going to get you there 1 second faster.
The haste is a minor benefit. The reduced area is the majority of the buff value imo.
Maybe, even then it's still very meager compared to other info options we have available. There's definitely some killer perk buffs I'm a bit concerned about, but seeing so much hate for the whispers buff in this thread is so strange.
Meanwhile they extended the aura duration on a number of killer perks so that they don't even need Lethal anymore.
Breathing and footsteps remain. Eyes are also a thing. I see this perk enough in my killer matches. It rarely gives me trouble. It might make me lose a chase here and there but so does Lucky Break. Once I know it's in play I just have to think about likely trajectory.
Have you ever once seen four people running SP?
Self Preservation was a breath of fresh air and at least helped with the never ending aura perks used these days.
The "dev note" reads like a typical excuse from lazy killer mains - "I had to go back to the hook because of <insert perk name here>"
Yeah i have actually.
Yeah the recent tone in these notes keeps blaming survivors for killer actions and it's really gross. They're treating them like poor little reactive bots who can't control their actions.
I always run aura on killer but even I think it needs counters for those who want to bring them, and SP didn't effect my preferred killer perks anyway. God forbid any viable stealth exists and killers don't have constant info.
Whispers is handy in that its untraceable and uncounterable. Im debating on slotting this new version into afew of my builds such as on Jason. Ppl's tendency of stealthing Jason's UE won't help against whispers.
Justification for buffing Knock Out by 400%: Because "Survivors refuse to loop around a pallet"
Right? Such a weird phrasing.
"How dare you leave that useless filler pallet propped up against a tree trunk and use a safer tile nearby instead?"
"We're amputating your legs now to stop you from running, 20% Hindered and good luck, that'll teach you to loop a killer, you bad guy."
— The Looping Police
Pretty much. Was reading the killer perks and getting excited planning new builds. Got to the survivor perks thinking they would make me wanna play again, but nope lol there's nothing. The dev notes all came off as 'we want survivors to do this, not that'. I can see their consultants have been hard at work, I'm sure their kill-streaks will get a nice boost.
Funny isn't it, how survivor playstyles are so heavily dictated recently?
Stealth? Naw. Cut SP in half. Predropping? Knockout will take care of that. Gen rushing? Stake Out/Hyperfocus synergy removed! Looping to safe structures? Adios WoO! Don't like those mediocre boons? Shattered Hope will now show you where they are too!
But tunneling? Yeah let's nerf basekit BT and StB to make that easier for you, honey. It's a legitimate playstyle, after all. And how about more slowdown tacked on to some perks? We can defientley do that! There wasn't enough slowdown in the meta already, for sure!
Oh but hey, at least they have a chat wheel so they can exclaim "damn!" every time another team mate DCs because they're over it
I can understand the Self-Preservation nerf. Most survivors probably used a strategy of pre-running from their generator and vanishing like a fart in the wind resulting in killers just kicking the gen and returning to hook. As killer it's better to return to the hook than wasting several seconds checking behind every tree and rock while the unhook happens for free.
With SP now lasting half as long it doesn't completely counter Nowhere to Hide and perhaps a clue is left for the killer to follow in the distance. And it does allow for some skill expression from the survivor because they can run until the elusive runs out and then walk and be rewarded for their stealth, especially if they also have a pebble to throw. It's just not free anymore.
But they may have over-nerfed it. We'll see.
BHVR loves nuking selfish perks. That's all.
i mean.. i actually think We See You is better than the current 30s self-preservation anyway. knowing when your aura is being read is simply just way more impactful and also doesn't negatively effect your teammates.
Back in my day, killers used to actually look for survivors…
I mean irony wise coming from that era before bbq we used whispers and spies because they came with the base game so they are that old. From whispers youd narrow down the location. So it wasnt always looking around blindly even back then you used something.
Gonna be honest. Never seen more than 1 survivor running this and on top of that 9/10 matches no one uses Self-Presavertion. The killer still goes back to the hook. This Dev note legit means nothing.
At this point there is the question what playstyle Survivors should (or are allowed) to do. Stealth is obviously not wanted, considering they obliterated Distortion (mainly due to outcry) and nerf Self Preservation. Looping is also iffy, considering that structures get weaker and weaker over time and Killers just get stronger, with the classical looping Killer not really being played anymore (I mean, you barely hear Judgments Chase music for example since you get sniped while not even being in chase with her). But buffed Knockout makes playing weak Pallets impossible, since you either get hit or leave the Loop and get hit.
Doing Gens is also apparently not really wanted.
True, but Killers also had to use some form of gamesense. Or were looking around Gens. Nowadays you just slap on Aura Read and know where to go, since outside of Lockers, there is not much against Aura Read. Plus most Killers have some form of Killer Instinct, which is uncounterable.
Elusive is not healthy for this game.
I am not a fan of aura perks for killer either.
Tracking, game sense and second guessing are all expressions of skill you pick up as you play.
So is proper stealthing and being unpredictable as a survivor.
Both sides getting crutches "I see you for free" vs. "I will not let you see me for free" is simply never ending, as per the previous Distortion nerf.
Imagine there was a survivor perk that gave survivors 5% haste with no conditions beyond being 24 meters away from the killer. The harmonized whining of the killer community would deafen us all.
Exactly, I am pretty sure that is why we had the distortion nerf, because people complained about people hiding and killers going after others, SP is extremely unhealthy because of this, the devs explained it, but people just want to complain apparently, we never gonna get massive perk changes if people complain about useless perks getting buffed and unhealthy ones getting nerfed/reworked
I hate this type of SP anyway, the best era was when it gave you lucky break if someone within your range got damaged. Had more interactive gameplay and I don't understand why it got full rework in the first place.
TBF I believe that 5 % is quite laughable value. And gladly people made threat about it. Personally I would like it being 15-20 % so no mobility killers gain more pressure and gap themselves more bewteen high mobility killers. If that happen we can expect balance with expectations that killers are able to traverse map in few seconds.
Remember during the anti-tunnel ptb when they cited player freedom of choice and it being too restrictive? Apparently that only goes one way. Killers can choose; survivors can die.
So free, uncounterable information and a massive speed boost that will still be used by A and S tier killers? Thats an awful lot of free value just for existing.
In that day we were forced to look for survivors because we didn't have the tools to easily find them. It was a time before close range aura reading or killer instinct that lead to downs.
When one plays killer what's more fun searching for hiding survivors or chasing survivors? I know I'd rather take the nastiest bully squad rather than a pack of coward Claudettes because with bullies at least the game is engaging. For this reason I can see why BHVR has developed a policy against longer term stealth plays.
But there is still room for shorter term stealth plays such as with Bite the Bullet or Quick & Quiet + Head On, spots where you can make the killer lose a chase or trick them into a stun. This is fun and engaging and should be encouraged.
But having one or more teammate(s) hide for a lot of the match and never get hooked while the rest of the team assumes all the risk and damage is something that should be discouraged. If people want to play Hide & Seek go play Prop Hunt or something, DbD is a chase game.
Uncounterable but very imperfect information and 5% haste while never in a chase for the cost of a whole perk slot? Seems like a fair trade to me. At least a perk slot occupied by Whispers is a perk slot not occupied by an aura or slowdown perk.
A new take on an old adage:
It's not killer's job or BHVR's to worry about survivors fun.
Yeah, that's the exact problem.
Intel got powercrept to hell and back and now everyone's acting like the game's non-functional without killers being given permanent, direct access to survivors' exact locations 24/7.
It wouldn't kill you to look. It didn't kill them, either.
Stealth is considered toxic (Distortion nuked while killers can benefit for constant Aura-Reading from most of perks/add-ons).
Gen-rush is unfun and toxic. (Hyperfocus-Stake out combo removed, BnP nuked and Prove Thyself nerfed long ago).
Looping is forbidden (Knock-Out buff punishes survivors for playing well, good luck with Artist, Dredge and Knight etc.. from now on, pallets and tiles have became unsafe/useless for the most while maps have been shrunked to the size of a closet).
Healing is too strong. (Med-Kits rarity basically removed and Syringe/Styptic nuked).
Anti-Tunneling measures weakened (Adrenaline, DS, StB, 15s to 10s unhook protection and on…).
Info perks are considered auto-pilot (WoO and FmA nuked).
- "Why is everyone playing in an SWF, and why are my queues 20 minutes long?"
This person wants 15-20% haste instead. That's what I'm replying to.
The way I use Self Preservation is to benefit the team as well as myself. Usually I am the only person running the perk when I do - and at least I know for sure I have not been spotted with an aura perk when someone is hooked, allowing me to stealth for the unhook or do some other support action. The killer might also have to use their brain a bit with something like Friends Til The End or -shock horror- be denied their perk value for once.
Exactly, and the perk is in such a good place to be a team perk with the Elusive off hook. Both players can disappear from the hook. And if killers returning to hook is a problem—as the wording implies—well then they get punished for it by there being no sign of anyone. With 15s it's solely good for ratting because the duration is too short to do anything meaningful. Like if the complaint is that it's selfish is just got even more selfish.
behavior needs to completely redesign their sound engineering for the game as the game was not built to rely on breathing and footsteps, it was supposed to go along with the ACTUAL tracking methods. I have a pretty nice paid of headphones with an audio prgram tuned specifically for dead by daylight and there is so much other noise that even with my program utilising spatial sound, dbd does not do a good job at precise audio. and good luck if your killer is loud or you have chase music playing that you cant adjust the audio on. youve brought this up before, its not good reasoning and i dont know why you keep falling back on that