Upcoming SP nerf makes no sense
The Self-Preservation nerf notes read like this:
This logic is nonsensical. If the issue is killer perks, SP counter one whole aura perk, BBQ, which can and is also countered by lockers. It partially counters Friends and Alien Instinct, but not fully. With this nerf, it will still do those exact same things. A killer that's clinging that hard to aura will still go back to the hook.
If the issue is that they get into chase with someone who has no scratch marks, that person still has 15s to prerun and hide when they hear the terror radius. So nothing changes about the initial effect. Also, I'm not sure why the devs care if the killer goes back to the hook, since anti-tunnel is something they keep rejecting and nerfing.
What SP does allow for in 30s is for the user to safely get across the map for an unhook, and with the added Elusive on unhook, returning to the hook if the unhooker has SP is now countered, as there will be no scratch marks at all. So this reasoning is either completely untrue and is just to hide that they're caving to complaints, or it's not thought out at all. This perk has the opportunity to be more tactical than ever with the recent basekit changes and instead it's getting nerfed into near uselessness, really good solely for personal ratting and not for macro.
And if this goes through, it will make two for two of Yun-Jins reworked perks getting the hammer treatment. What was even the point of reworking them?
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big dial up noise we listen to the big content creator man energy
Because those elements exist for a reason. It's a tool for you to utilize. My headset is just decent and has default settings. My game audio settings are also default—and I can still hear these things. It's one of the reasons CE gave me no issues pre-nerf. I could literally hear their footsteps.
It's like if killers don't have a neon sign pointing to the survivor they feel cheated. You can also just think and use your eyes. I'm a stealth survivor. I know how they think. It's gamesense. I run 1-2 aura perks and an aura add-on on all my killers and Elusive is a non-issue for me. There should be counters to mindless things, and the killer should have to have some thoughts of their own.
i am also a stealth survivor, and i enjoy very much utilising stealth and such, its quite fun. but its not fun to deal with no tracking tools frequently and for long periods of time because again, 1. the game was not ever designed for you to track people based on that. thats just objectively the case. Would you enjoy the game as killer if there was no aura possibilities or scratch marks?
your eyes work when your looking at someone directly in your LOS. but every single map is filled to the brim with los breakers. i can just slap on lightweight and boom now you will never know where i am because the one tool your using to track me which was never intended to be the primary way to track people is no longer at your disposal. now i do that a couple times a match and waste your time and now you lost the game because you are just lacking the tools that the game is designed around in order to function properly.
if there is 3 gens and 3 different directions you can go to. you know whats helpful to even know where to go? auras and scratchmarks so you can get to playing the game.
i promise you that 99% of killers do not enjoy spending multiple minutes traversing the map not in chase because they cant find anyone because everyone is hiding or preventing the tools from working that allow chases to happen unless you stumble in to someone and even on incredibly proficient killers, they can get disoriented and confused the second a surv just appears to vanish in thin air.
large parts of chases have to operate without you having LOS. if i have to literally spend half the map to catch up to you in a straight line, how exactly am i going to be able to spend half the map keeping track of where your going when you can move left or right, move out of sight and there are 20 different directions you could have gone and i have no option but to make a guess.
you might not feel bothered by it when you run into it every once in a while. deal with it frequently or have multiple teams using it (where there are perks that completely remove the footsteps and breathing as well) and tell me how fun of an experience that would make killer?
furthermore, not everyone has the same level of hearing acuity, nor do they have good headsets. some people only have their tv speakers, some only have a 30 dollar walmart headset and some people dont have sharp hearing like myself. i hear ok, but i had lots of ear infections when younger and it dulled my hearing. the game ISNT precise with its sounds. cuz the game wasnt built like COD where such information is critical. you can also only hear footsteps within 8 meters.
How is that useful when a massive amount of chases will have a distance beyond 8 meters? if your within footstep range i probably already see you or your on the same tile, which has 3 different exits out of and if you choose an exit and are now 9 meters away, which exit you took is now a guess (educated guess sometimes but ALWAYS a guess)
and if im within footstep range, there is a good chance i have chase music going with some killers having more loud or obnoxious music. that music is extremely loud and overshadows all other audio in the game. i play with volume all the way up specificalkly so i can hear these subtler sound but that means that all other sounds are bombs in my ears though the chase music is the main issue.
if games were slower than they are and i could afford to play wheres waldo with survivors than sure, not as big of a deal. i dont have time to play wheres waldo, i need to find my chases or im going to tunnel out the person who i can actually engage the game with.
I've had matches where four people have run stealth perks. It's rare so it's fine. Why would I advocate for a thing I use as survivor if I had a problem with it on killer?
There are a ton of perks that remove or reduce tracking. You're saying the game wasn't meant for that but here's all these perks that do it. Is Undetectable unfair too? Like, the game was meant for certain killers to have a terror radius. How are are survivors supposed to know where the killer even is??? This logic is ridiculous. These perks spice up the games. Otherwise it's the same mindless crap every match, with killers running after colors like stupid dogs and survivors looping in circles around a rock. That's lame. It's boring. It's dictated playing.
I main a prediction killer. I have to be able to guess their likely moves and get hits through LoS breakers. Idk maybe some people have awful game sense, but most people are predictable. There are optimal pathing patterns in this game. Even seemingly unpredictable moves are often predictable. I'm asking people to think.
The equipment argument doesn't hold water. Some people have, some don't. That's life. Someone on a high end PC using kbm and a great headset will do better than me on console with an okay headset and a controller with stick drift. You can't equalize gaming in the modern world. That's why people pay more for better things. They want an advantage.
You are remembering those days with rose-colored glasses. Returning to hook was just as prevalent back then as it is now.
Looking for a stealth survivor with no hooks and no clue to help find them?
My bad. I skimmed this thread too quickly as I often do. 5% is fine and 15-20% is absurd.
What exactly do you want the killer role to do? Your post makes it sound like you want killer to be auto-pilot mode.
your eyes work when your looking at someone directly in your LOS. but every single map is filled to the brim with los breakers. i can just slap on lightweight and boom now you will never know where i am because the one tool your using to track me which was never intended to be the primary way to track people is no longer at your disposal'The one tool?' 'Never know where I am?' Just because someone goes around a corner doesn't mean they cease to exist. Part of game sense is trying to anticipate where they might be going. Even without scratch marks the killer can use their surroundings to make a prediction on where they are going.
The survivor should of course also be taking this into account, but that's what makes it a game.
now i do that a couple times a match and waste your time and now you lost the game because you are just lacking the tools that the game is designed around in order to function properly.'Game is designed around' - the line of sight blockers aren't there accidently. Not even the spaghetti code is that bad.
furthermore, not everyone has the same level of hearing acuity, nor do they have good headsets.People don't have the same level of eye sight, or reflexes, or memory. Any game mechanic you can think of will favor or disfavor certain players.
killers keep getting their hand held.
When has in the history of the game has been using scratch marks and blood pools "auto pilot mode"? if this is what your going to start off the premis of your message with, the remainder has no value to me.
i do not have a problem with the existence of being able to remove temporarily things like aura, blood, breathing, scratchmarks. I have never stated otherwise. what i have stated in past discussion to you, is its a problem if its pushed to a degree that it becomes meta and something everyone uses. i see no reason how that would be fun long term for players. just as no doubt people would find running into anti loop builds/killers all the time wouldnt be much fun either or whatever specific tactic/build that people like to complain about for the time.
we complain about WOO getting nerfed because it impacts new players. (even though it is NOT just new players using the perk and its ridiculous people are trying to claim otherwise)
how does making it easier and easier to remove fundamentally designed mechanics of the game not function not impact new players?
But it's not meta and it's not being run that often. These stealth teams are borderline mythical. SP is off meta and getting nerfed and the stated reasoning isn't even logical since it will be keeping the same effect. Nerfing non-meta gimmicky perks and meta perks is dumb. It's like everything even hypothetically useful is getting nerfed on the survivor side.
I don't know who "we" is. I've never really used WoO, even as a baby, and I haven't said any such thing about it. I actually think it's a better perk for veterans playing solo because you never know what your team has used yet, plus RNG. But a new survivor is almost certainly not bamboozling a new killer with SP. It isn't really a baby league perk. It does take a little understanding of the game to utilize properly.
But new players will get duped by perks in general. That's how you learn. I'll give you the same argument again: how is a new player supposed to identify and counter a Secret Project build that "removes a fundamentally designed mechanic of the game." If Undectable through perks is fair, Elusive through perks is fair.
if this is what your going to start off the premis of your message with, the remainder has no value to me.Hey, I can play this game to: if your premise is that a killer can't maintain basic object permanence when a survivor goes around a corner, then your posts shouldn't be taken seriously.
Anyway, the killer has varying levels of access to aura read, scratch marks, blood pools, sounds they can hear, their own eyes to see the survivors, and their own brains and game sense to make deductions about where they might be. The only thing that makes this not an autopilot is that the survivors have tools to deny the killer some of these methods, but never all of them. Wanting all of them is indeed asking for the killer to be on auto-pilot mode where they are just pointed at the survivors. To echo what @MashedBroccoli said, we're getting entirely new levels of hand holding for killers.
Like I asked, what actually do you want the killer player to do? What actual skill expression are they meant to deploy to find the survivors?
i know we dont have official stats (recent ) from behavior and i know nightlite isnt the most reliable but i feel its safe to say that beginners and casuals arent using nitelight and updating their matches. but it has a 23% pick rate right now and last year it was as high as 35%.
What exactly are you basing this off of in regards to not being used as much?
if you actually read what words were said and understand what individual words mean on their own and then what they mean when they are put together, you would clearly be able to see that my statement and premise did not claim that killers do not have object permanence.
I cant abide dishonesty in conversation. you can disagree and nort resort to dishonest tactics to try and bolster your point. I am not interested in communicating further with you.
There were just niche scenarios this perk was an issue . For exaple set up a match on lerys vs 4x self preservations. Basically you get giga punished for hooking because elusive just removes chasing on inddor maps or maps with many los breakers.
yeah and there's also niche games where you run four healing builds into a plague, or genrush builds into skillcheck doctor, or not so uncommon games where you run an antihex build into a killer with no hexes.
If that happens, oh well it's an unfortunate matchup, try your best and move on.
Oh no, a challenging game. What an inconvenience 🙄
I think you're upset that I threw your own tactic back at you. You tried to discard an entire post and avoid either defending or clarifying your own words based on a dishonest reading of what was written. I merely did the same thing and even pointed out I was doing it.
I however, after throwing it back at you, still went on to actually explain the point again to give you an opportunity to respond. That's what honest conversation actually is.
We're talking about Self-Preservation, which has a 1.6% pick rate and a 35% ER on NL. Not sure how you ended up back on WoO.
So there's a one in a million chance a perk might be very useful in this extremely unlikely scenario? Because I've never gone against four SPs. The chances of doing so and rolling Lery's are astronomical. This is an absurd reason to justify a nerf a low-picked niche perk.
I have, however, gone against a full team of Shadowstep, Iron Will, Lucky Break, and Distortion. It was a 4 out, so I guess all those perks need to get dumpstered too.
Killer mains really are arguing that SP counters their info perks too much when there are a plethora of perks and addons that counter exhaustion perks, and lots of killers (especially Judgment) that do the same. Rules for thee and not for me.
"Rules for thee and not for me" is what this update should be called.