Matches still are worse than before the anniversary
During the event, there was an astronomical amount of hard tunneling and camping in comparison to the normal day-to-day matches in DBD. Now that the event is over, I thought that it would return to normal, but I don't know if it's just how much I've been exposed to it recently but it still feels like when I play survivor 1/3 - 1/4 games is a hard tunnel or basement camp on me or one of my teammates. Has anybody else been experiencing this?
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As long as the aforementioned strategies are low-effort and high-reward, you'd be hard pressed to make an argument as to why killer's wouldn't want to employ them.
This is exactly why the carrot-on-a-stick approach won't solve this issue. It needs to be made unviable and exceedingly difficult to pull off.
Not calling anyone names, or contributing to us vs them, but here is a common scenario that I will proxy.
Survivor goes down on a defendable hook, in the open, or narrow lanes to be able to approach it, in the middle of my 3 or 4 gen, yeah I’m going to make that unhook hurt, I have zero reason to leave the general area. I won’t face camp it but I will be running people of the gens, returning to hook, take a health state (I play Trickster so I have the range), return to hook etc.
I’m just curious if the survivors who see this, would actually expect me not to proxy a hook like that if the exact situation happens.
Eh, for me the amoung of tunneling during and after anniversary was pretty much the same. There was an exception for one xeno gamer with a vault build that couldn't care less about turrets and just targeted me the entire match.
Expecting majority of killers to not tunnel or be brutally efficient in this survivor meta is such a quoxotic mindset. I'd suggest running some hook/anti-tunnel related perks if you or your teammates struggle.
There's no benefit to spreading hooks and generator speeds and pallet density make it difficult for many killers. No surprise you'll see a lot of killer players employ tactics that allow them to secure kills.
Before I left, the amount of pallets alone made me tunnel, I wouldn't even consider it tunneling but I had to chase a dude across the map 2 times getting all the pallets I could out of the way because it's just pallet after pallet after pallet window hop to another pallet rinse and repeat. God forbid I don't run the flashlight perk now I get stunned when I finally get a down and hey 4 gens popped.
Jason on release I expect was a return to how old DBD functioned, now he's getting nerfed again no surprise there. Ever since the mass nerfs that took place killers have been in a bad place and tunneling is likely to ramp up as time goes on. Moving forward we either need a return to what made killers viable to even make me consider coming back because it really just wasn't fun, I don't come to a game to sweat every match, I left call of duty for this exact reason. I come to have fun, games are meant to be fun, in it's current state DBD isn't fun, to me at least.
Why should Killer stop with tunneling and slugging? By now even the latest Killer on Earth knows that it is easy and very efficient. People who decide against using those "strategies" are just those who dont want to use them.
And as long as the Devs encourage such playstyles, nothing will change. There is also 0 incentive for the people using those "strategies" to stop, because there is no way the Devs can create an incentive which would not be busted or too weak.
Agree with this. This is not “us vs them” - it’s simply pointing out the reality of playing killer. There are a lot of people who don’t play killer who don’t realize that once you get past baby MMR if you play what many survivors consider “fair” you are going to lose most of your matches. I’m happy to have a debate with people who disagree with this who actually play killer and want to provide some helpful guidance by posting some videos about how they consistently win against good survivor teams while also getting 7-8 or more hooks per game. But having this debate with people who don’t play killer is pointless.
It's been about the same for me for awhile, though my play time in survivor has dropped considerably, so my sample size has shrunk. Smart unhooks are a big deal, but it's much easier in SWF.
The one thing that should have gone through from the anti-tunnel ptb was Elusive off-hook. People don't stop doing unpleasant things unless something external makes them do so. There's zero punishment for cheesing and its very easy, and easy is what many people want. They don't want skill expression. They don't want to improve. They don't want to get cool orbitals. They don't want to impress anyone by two hooking before killing. They want to play Ghoul with busted add-ons and easily win. That's where this game is at right now. It's gotten stupider and stupider to where it nearly plays itself.
I don't use perks that I might not get value from, like DS, but I suggest trying Lucky Break. I always get use from it. I either escape a chase for free, or I get to run away after unhook with no trail. Often I get both those things. I rarely get tunneled myself because of it.
If they go back to the drawing board and come up with unique hook bonuses then maybe it will stop. Right now though there is 0 reason to not tunnel
Only if they also introduce a punishment for tunneling. Incentives just dont work, this has been shown time and time again. And if you want the incentive so huge that it is better than tunneling, it must be something extremely busted.
i used to try and 12 hook as often as possible, but pallet density has ruined that for me. I find myself having to tunnel when i never needed too prior to them messing with density.
I have over 9k hours in the game and this current era of dbd is the worst its been for both sides.
Last month it was Fast Track, now the excuse is pallets that have not changed in 8 months.
Nope, not everyone blamed fast track. I still don’t think fast track was an issue. Pallets have been though.
Not that you would but if you look through my post history i used to advocate against tunneling and even advocated for the anti tunnel system.
The number and placement of pallets is RNG, and that is what makes some matches easier and some tougher. Unfortunately because killers have become so strong with many basekit powers like window/pallet blocking, pallet breaking, there have to be enough of these resources otherwise every match is a done deal. They buffed Bubba and now he is too fast to risk going for the stun and you just have to pre-drop. The same goes for Myers who has the fastest pallet break speed in the game, and does not lose momentum when doing so. At least now with Blight you can greed some pallets and have a little interaction with the killer - that's the fun part.
thats great for those killers but i don’t play them.
Gens go too fast to go for cool plays. Some killers don't even have much skill expression anyway.
the actual problem is survivors are too strong. killers are going to tunnel and slug until survivors are nerfed and the devs won't do it so people are going to keep picking top tiers slugging and tunneling till the game dies
I do remember seeing you say that for the anti tunnel and such. Also am pretty sure you said it needed tweaks but I might be misremembering
But at the same time I'm gonna be 100% with you. Even if what danger said is true. There are degrees of issues? Like "hey X is issue I see now" doesn't make Y any less there?
I seem to remember back 8 months ago, people were upset with the pallets density when it came out?
Yeah, but back then Pallet Density was actually a thing. This was when they first started working on it. Afterwards they went back on it by removing a lot of the Pallets (while keeping the Loops and Main Buildings weaker, as they did before) which resulted in the other extreme. And then we ended up on the current version, which is still weaker than pre Pallet Density for Survivors, since they removed Windows or breakable Walls from Main Buildings and shortened some Loops.
And IMO if people blame Pallet Density nowadays, I have to assume that they are playing really badly and kicking every unsafe Pallet and dont play anything. I was mostly playing M1-Killers the past few days and I had no issue at all with Pallets.
Killer community is just fed up. My friends don't really want to play much survivors lately and with the queues for killers being lower finally I can hop abck on them.
Using M1 killers for a few days and personally not having trouble with pallets does not prove that pallet density is fine, nor does it justify reducing every criticism to a skill issue.
Main Buildings and loops being weaker than they used to be is a separate question from whether current pallet generation is balanced. Fewer windows, shorter loops, or removed breakable walls do not automatically mean the number and placement of pallets are healthy.
The issue is not simply whether a killer mindlessly breaks every unsafe pallet. Even a weak pallet can waste meaningful time depending on how quickly it connects to another tile, how close it is to generators, and how many pallets spawn in the same area. Several individually weak pallets can still create a strong chain.
Map, RNG, killer choice, survivor skill, and match circumstances all matter. So saying, “I had no problem, therefore anyone who complains is playing badly,” is not a balance argument. It is an anecdote followed by an insult.
If the claim is that pallet density is objectively fine, it should be supported by things like average chase duration, pallet counts, spacing between resources, tile connectivity, and how different killers are affected—not a few days of personal experience.
Or perhaps the reason you came to that conclusion is that you have only been matched against low-MMR Survivors who do not know how to use the current pallet setups effectively.
Ah, the classic. The person in question is not mindlessly complaining how unfair it is for Killer, so they must be low MMR. I probably played more Killer than you have overall hours. And from the Builds my opponents use, I have to assume they know at least a bit what they are doing.
I am at the Soft Cap of the MMR. This does not mean that I am extremely high MMR (nobody knows that), but I face opponents I know have very high MMR, so I am at least at the Soft Cap. Might be barely above it, might be way above it, nobody knows.
This is not a separate question. When they increased the volume of Pallets, they also reduced Pallets in Main Buildings (e.g. the Main Building on the Asylum Map only features one Pallet anymore), removed Breakable Walls (Groaning Storehouse and Gas Haven dont have the strong breakable Walls in their Main Building anymore) or removed Windows (the Main Building on Chapel does not feature the best Window anymore). And they made Loops overall shorter which resulted in more Pallets, but more unsafe ones. Yet when Pallets were reduced again, none of the changes before were reverted. This combined with the fact that maps became more and more unsafe over the years (strong structures get removed, added by way weaker structures) made the Killer experience overall better. The only thing which remained from Pallet Density is basically that it added some Filler Pallets. Basically:
Old: Two Jungle Gyms next to each other, both having a safe Pallet —> Pre Pallet Density: Those Jungle Gyms got replaced with much weaker Loops without compensation —> Post Pallet Density: Filler Pallet got added between those. And this is overall a fair change. More unsafe Pallets > better gameplay than very few super safe Pallets.
This is the biggest head scratcher for me. Why do I have to provide proof, but every bad Killer Main who complains that the game is SO HARD for Killer does not have to provide anything? If someone complains about Pallet Density, they should provide gameplay. Because then we would actually see if there is an issue or if the player can improve. We get screenshots at best, often enough just rants without proof. Yet I am required to bring proof, others not?
The low-MMR remark was obviously sarcastic. You had already suggested that people who complain about pallet density must be playing badly, so I simply applied the same kind of reasoning back to you. You cannot reduce other players’ opinions to a skill issue and then suddenly object when the same logic is used in your direction.
But the main point is not MMR, gameplay footage, or who has to provide proof. The issue is that a noticeable number of players independently feel that the increase in pallets has made certain map generations excessive or unnatural.
A widely shared perception is not automatically objective truth, of course. But when the same concern repeatedly appears across different players, killers, maps, and matches, it is still a meaningful signal. It should not simply be dismissed as “bad Killers playing badly.”
Your personal experience is valid, but it is still only your personal experience. Playing M1 Killers for a few days and having no issue does not invalidate the broader perception formed by many players across far more matches and different map generations.
The point is not that the majority must always be right. The point is that an individual anecdote should not be used to deny the environment people were actually experiencing at the time, or to reduce a broadly shared balance concern to a universal skill issue.
You can reasonably argue that having more unsafe pallets is healthier than having only a few extremely safe ones. But that still does not mean every concern about the increase in pallets is imaginary, nor that everyone who notices it is simply bad at Killer.
Rather than reacting from the perspective of your own personal experience, it is more important to step back and look at the broader state of the game.
Except Killers aren't going to stop tunneling and slugging even if Survivors get nerfed. Why would they stop doing it when it becomes even easier?
"How old DBD functioned" Old DBD was 10x more survivor sided than it is today. The more you go back in time, the worse it is for killers, nothing youre saying make sense. Flashlight is an item that helps killers more than not in average matches. Survivors will deliberatly take time off doing gens to prox camp the chase and get a flashlight save that any killer with good experience will not allow 8 times out of 10, youre just ass at the game. You can complain about a lot of things, this is not one of them
it'll go way down compared to now where it's a requirement because killers won't need to sweat for a 2k treating every match like a comp game and they'd probably go back to more chill meme builds to relax
Don't think so. People want to win and do whatever to do so.
For some it's the taking part that counts, and developing and using your skill in the process.
You are correct on both points i did say it needed some slight changes.
Cryptic is right here. I firmly believe slugging and tunneling became what it is because at some point Killers did have it too rough, or survivors were too strong. But regardless of if anyone agrees with that, the fact of the matter is that now that it's part of the common behavior, tunneling and slugging will not end that easily. It's become it's own thing now, and will have to be addressed as it's own thing regardless of it's origin.
We get screenshots at best, often enough just rants without proof.Don't forget the classic - sure it was a 4k, but…