I don't understand the nerfing logic.
With the devs nerfing cross-examination which has been out for less than a week.
Other perks which cause way more balancing issues are left untouched.
Is it because this perk is the new flavor of the month to complain about?
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I suspect it was supposed to be nerfed for its release, but they weren’t able to add it to the big patch in time.
it’s getting nerfed quicker than other perks because content creators and their echo chamber audience complained in mass during the ptb to the point where if the devs didn’t nerf it, they’d throw a tantrum.
tbh i think people overreacted about this perk. i’ve been using it since release and the only times ive lost the killer mid chase with it is on indoor maps (which obviously, all stealth perks are good on indoor maps) and in a high wall loop where i have a lot of distance on the killer to the point where i could’ve lost them even without the perk by just walking or crouching, or if the killer player is just not that experienced and is over reliant on scratch marks. in the vast majority of my games, the killer is close enough to the point where i can’t lose them with Cross-Examination.
once the nerf hits either this week or next week, this will be a dead perk and no one will use it (no one uses it currently but the nerf will make it go extinct). very sad to see a perk not even have the chance to be proven wrong before already having a nerf so heavy that it nukes it from orbit.
It was supposed to be nerfed sooner but I guess they couldn't nerf it before it went to live and are waiting until the next patch.
I agree that the perk is probably going to be dead on arrival after the nerf, but this is still undeniably the best stealth perk in the game with the PTB version. Simply getting hit gave you a mini lucky break effect for 5 seconds due to the light mark's hitbox being ginormous for no reason. It was basically an instant power creep to every stealth perk that exists.
imo Elusive shouldn't be slapped onto perks all willy nilly because it's just too loaded of a status effect.
tbf, the mini lucky break seems to be a bug. i’ll get the 5 seconds of elusive from being hit by a killers projectile when they are clearly not in the range for the light marks. classic bhvr, having the perk be bugged and not have accurate testing only to receive a nerf (cough Last Stand cough).
because it doesnt "break" the game, it turns it unplayable, since any surv with two brain cells can abuse it to leave a loop and the killer would not know if you left or if you are still looping, unless he can see you.
so, just cause you dont have the skill to use it well enough, its not a problem? bad killers cant get a single hook, can we buff pain res to 100% regress since this guys cant take any value from the perk? no, we cant… not everyone in this game is bad
Ngl if this perk makes the game unplayable then like….I could name like 10 other perks that do that and deserve the nerf waaaay more than this perk. Im also not saying this perk isnt justified to be nerf. My point is nerfs to recent things are starting to feel like knee jerk reactions than actually letting this settle for a few week, hence feeling like flavor of the month balance changes instead of actually looking at things that have been in the game for months to years that are still way too strong.
I have been trying it a few times the past few days and to be honest, it's not that good even in its "pre-nerf" form. You have to actively be following the killer to get the benefit, and of course they can hear your running footsteps. I think it's hard to tell the value you are getting from it - however the light marks actually give a bit of information that survivors have never had before, which is interesting.
Of course it's always possible to stage and edit a video to show off the "insane, broken perk". But yeah, it will be completely useless once nerfed, just like Fast Track.
It would be nice to have something to try shake up the meta. But with how things are with the outcry for nerfs and what not.
Survivors will be stuck with the same passive meta perks.
Sorry, which perks are causing more balancing issues than the one which lets you auto-win chase at any high wall tile?
I legitimately can't think of a perk more powerful in the game right now when used well than this one.
The fact most survivors don't know how good it is makes it more deadly, because then you run into one who does and you forgot it exists, and then they just turn into a ghost the moment you start chasing them in any tile where you can break LoS with them.
Hell the day it came out this perk won my team an entire match when I was on death hook in a Shane adept match and Ghoul chased me into a high wall jungle gym. She totally lost track of me, spent a ton of time trying to figure out where I went which bought my team time, and then gave up, which left me alive to continue doing gens.
And I didn't even do anything crazy to outplay her, I just noticed the perk activated and left the loop, and she had no idea. She spent another 20 seconds trying to figure out if I was still there.
What perks are more broken than escaping chases when the killer mind games a tile with little to no counterplay?
i think i saw somewhere though i cont remember if this is real that the devs said it wasnt supposed to be working in chase anyways, that wasnt the design intention of it so i wouldnt say its a nerf so much as fixing the perk
The hitbox is just very large. It was able to hit people on the floor ABOVE the killer on the PTB. JCGlitchMaster did a great video explaining all the problems with the perk. He's mostly a survivor main as well and was baffled by how broken it was in practice.
There is no logic. Simple as that. Devs don't play the game, they play business. What is business? Skins, not balance and perks.
Man I wish now that Last stands been fixed that we could test multiple uses for it in a match, with how niche it is.
I think you'd get like 2 a match at most, and that's if its not a stealth killer.
Yes. It was the same with Fast Track. Same with fog vials. Same with the anti-tunnel ptb. The squeaky wheel keeps getting oiled and because of it we'll never have any changes to this game because this playerbase won't allow them, as much as they say they want them.
It really doesn't surprise me that BHVR made a perk with a specific intention and then never bothered to test if it could be used in any other manner outside their intention. I would say a lot of issues of balance with DBD are a result of the devs failing to consider use cases outside of what they intend.
cross is busted in chase because elusive removes everything and all you need to do is follow the light paths and the hitbox is ao big it's multi floor and you get it when getting hit
a killer equivalent would be if killer got event poison but you were at walking speed immediately showed your aura within 16m and never went away till you died. i know for a fact survivors would be complaining why it even left the ptb
The problem with the perk was it gave you elusive for just existing in chase and remember elusive gives no scratches marks, grunts of pain and aura reading all for just doing a circle around a tile. Imagine if killers could throw on ruin but it wasn't a hex and the whole match killers got free recession for just showing up to gens all match long.
That's not even remotely close to equivalent. It's just a status effect. The killer can still see and hear the person. Undetectable perks like Dark Devotion are the closer equivalent because Eluisve is a weaker version of Undetectable.
you do realize the point of chase music is to blare out the sound of breathing and footsteps so no you can't because if the survicor leaves that loop with elusive you can't track them and waste time looking for them in a loop they may or not be also no dark devotion puts your terror radius specifically on the obsession and they get a speed boost away feom you while applying it and elusive is way stronger than undetectable because scratch marks pools of blood aura are the only ways killers can track when the survivors leave los
Another perk to add to the graveyard of useless perks.
You can still hear people even with the music. It doesn't deafen sounds, it just makes it harder.
Elusive still allows for noise notifications on perks like FttE and Infectious Fright. It also doesn't block Killer Instinct. There are no ways for survivors to go around Undetectable. Undetectable is stronger.
Lucky Break and Parental Guidance already do this. Poised, Dance With Me and Shadowstep have similar effects too. Killers have managed with suppressing perks. You can often just guess where people are.
Some might question whether this may also be due to the skill of the (average) Ghoul player.
Yeah, but you just have to compare it to.. I'm All Ears - just for equipping the perk you'll see the aura of the person when they vault, and it works in chase. Why is it not OK for there to be some perks that counter it? What about Predator - you lose the chase and get rewarded with the aura of the survivor who successfully outplayed you.
By far the best comment so far.
Yeah, exactly. The problem with role bias is people ignore what their favorite side gets. Both sides get free stuff. A massive chunk of the perks for both are activated by an opponents actions, or by the user"s own failure, like Predator.
Id say it would be closer to having aura reading just looping in chase would be a good equivalent and you know how busted permanent wall hacks for alot of killers in chase would be?
Ears goes on a pretty decent cooldown once used so if you straight counter it for existing then the killer would get no info and there perk goes on cooldown because the survivor looped them and took a vault.
Predator I don't know about that I never see it and I'm assuming it's because scratch marks exist.
The main problem is huge effect for just existing in chase. You don't have to do anything like stun the killer or lose them just run around in a circle and get a really powerful effect.
BTW I'm All Ears also has a duration it's not like they vault then you have permanent aura reading while in chase.
On cross-examination - if its overperforming, then by all means nerf it.
But in relation to this:
You can still hear people even with the music. It doesn't deafen sounds, it just makes it harder.I find it funny how much of the forums/social media is always in an uproar when survivors get anything that might make things easier, but the idea that there would be a perk that would limit 'some' of the ways to track survivors in 'some' loops against 'some' killers and thus they would have to demonstrate more skill (or, play without their hand being held, to use the common insult thrown at survivors), well that's just unthinkable.
I think cross examination is mainly problematic on indoor maps and against 4.4 killers. Nothing else but it can be frustration for Spirit players, which I understand.
Right as Jason releases too? We know the answer to this. At least the event is distracting people for the most part.
are we really debating if 'permanent elusive in chase' exceeds the power budget of a perk
theres various sources of scratchmark removal/reduction in surv perks and literally all of them are conditional or limited, the idea of a perk that unconditionally just disables your scratchmarks alongside the other benefits of elusive is obviously just insane
i mean it can be really hard sometimes to pick out foot steps over CLANG CLANG ALL HAIL THE POTS AND PANS BAND and there is no way to adjust that volume and it objectively can make it hard to hear a subtle sound like footsteps much less accurately pinpoint its location especially with people with various audio device quality or their own hearing capacity.
I can track people ok enough with just footsteps but there is a rewason thats not how the game was designed to track people and if you removed scratch marks and made all games havce elusive in chase your objectively drastically hurting the killers ability to perform.
sure it takes more skill to do, but skill requirement doesnt always equal appropriate or good gameplay decisions. and its not a crutch to rely on scratch marks and sounds and stuff because the game was literally designed around using those.
footsteps are supposed to supplement tracking not replace it.
removing all but 1 very minor supplemental tracking tool and expecting people to be ok with it because "skill" is not a good justification in my opinion.
if "I"m All Ears" was the equivalent of cross examination it would say "When a survivor fast vaults within 48M of you, reveal their aura until they get at least 64M away from you, 15 second cooldown".
Permanent? What is the killer gonna let you follow him around like a Scooby Doo cartoon? I think CE is actually a hard perk to get value out of. It's balanced. But the same people who are always crying about "handholding" hate that they have to use their eyes instead of relying on the bright orange marks on the ground.
While it does suck that perks aren't being changed overall. I don't want to delude myself into thinking Cross Examination was going to be healthy for the game in any way. This perk on any indoor map just is a "don't chase me" while any form of higher wall loops become a literal guessing game of "did the survivor leave to go hide behind this rock" if you didn't have LOS on them for three seconds.
Call me crazy, but I don't think BHVR should be nerfing perks that make chase easier after releasing a killer that forces you to take chase.
I mean, people clocked the reason why it should be nerfed from the get-go.
Elusive is a strong effect, and for a perk like this, is a bit much. I also think BHVR didn't actually adress the main issue, Elusive is simply unfit for this perk.
If Elusive was a part of Low Profile or Teamwork: Toughen Up, I doubt any issues would arise.
somethings dont need time to see they are wrong, indeed there are many ######### in this game that i can barely believe they passed to live the way they were