It's a PTB the "T" stands for testing.
Did nobody read the actual patch notes? I have seen literally so many post and comments of being like "grrr the devs are survivor sided because I didn't want to read." Stop pushing the Us vs Them mentality its overused and frankly boring to have to deal with the same conversations for 10 years straight. People need to stop complaining.
In case you still didn't know the survivors perks ARE NOT COMING TO LIVE.
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i mean.. we still don’t know if there will be changes for the survivor perks. But even if not, that shouldnt really matter, since feedback about the Slasher and the perks should be about those and how they work in the current game regarding all existing perks and shouldnt be directly judged against only the new survivor perks.
Complaining/giving actual constructive (negative) feedback is okay, but as you said, its the ‘Us vs Them’ mentality thats just not constructive and lets people seem like whiny children.
Sadly, this is kinda human nature though.. and also fueled by content creators who need these extreme (whiny) emotions as it generates more clicks..
They're upset also because of them nerfing a killer that already wasn't that strong and not buffing his bad perks. Those seem like reasonable complaints. I don't think it's just about the survivor perks.
when most of the playerbase didn't touch the PTB and can't, getting their opinions from CC's who have been wrong multiple times in the past.
If he is weak at launch, they'll buff him, but it's best to see how he does in the hands of the wider player base, not just the content creation bubble.
"If he is weak at launch, they'll buff him"
I mean given BHVR's track record I'd say this is a completely false statement. Like honestly I'm struggling to think of even a single time that has ever happened lol
"when most of the playerbase didn't touch the PTB and can't, getting
their opinions from CC's who have been wrong multiple times in the past."
This is an assumption. You are just assuming that's where their opinion is coming from.
"Track record"
You mean because they buffed some killers coming out of PTB and realised they maybe overdid it? Oh, shocking.
You're telling me a game with live balance is receiving live balance? Oh my….
What about Lich who recieved a lot of buffs over time? Blight did too until he became one of the most problematic killers for years.
It's also an assumption that people are on the PTB? What's your point, it's called an opinion, based on knowing many ps5 players etc who can't wait to try him out. So you can take your attempt to dismiss me and keep it lmao
"You mean because they buffed some killers coming out of PTB and realised they maybe overdid it? Oh, shocking."
I'll take examples for 500 Jeff.
"You're telling me a game with live balance is receiving live balance? Oh my…."
Oh so now we're saying "have ever received a live balance since their release"? I think we're altering the original intent here. The original statement was referencing right after release.
"What about Lich who recieved a lot of buffs over time? Blight did too
until he became one of the most problematic killers for years."
Lich nearly 2 years later? and still isn't even A tier.
Blight I'd actually agree with. That is probably one good example that was buffed after release and over buffed at that.
"It's also an assumption that people are on the PTB? What's your point,
it's called an opinion, based on knowing many ps5 players etc who can't
wait to try him out. So you can take your attempt to dismiss me and
keept it lmao"
No it's an assumption that they didn't play the PTB and are just getting their opinions from CC's.
The vast majority of the killer roster releases weak and stays weak as a general rule.
Who cares where they are in someones contextual personal tier list which literally you are conflicting with this:
"No it's an assumption that they didn't play the PTB and are just getting their opinions from CC's." Where are you getting your opinions from? CC's? Or just your own opinion… choose one.
All I want is for him to be fun to play AS, and fun AGAINST.
It isn't an assumption. There have been console users on the forum giving opinions on this killer while having no access to the ptb themselves. Now magnify that throughout all of social media. Only so many people are on Steam, and only so many participate in the ptb. Most people haven't played this killer yet, yet opinions are rampant.
Lots of people care about a killers power level. People also care about fun to play as and against. Nothing I've said conflicts with this. You just dismissed lots of peoples opinions because of assumptions and only caring about what you care about. Other people opinions matter too.
I'm sure we can find some people that fit that, but it doesn't mean we can spread those anecdotal incidents and apply it to all. I would agree those people just forming opinions from watching others should wait to play it first. I just wouldn't assume that's the majority without actually knowing.
While I cannot speak with certainty, as I did not access the PTB, the nerfs do not seem as severe as to warrant an outcry.
Maybe the built-in anti-camp could be too heavy-handed. But otherwise? The changes seem reasonable.
As for perks, well, I do agree with you on that front. Silent Shadow is his only good perk, and even that is basically just a retread of Furtive Chase. Rampage and his Hex are utterly worthless.
He isn't going to be "weak" though… we don't know what he will be like in actual matches yet, the community hasn't had time to figure him out.
and if you want to not be dismissed, don't try it with me in the first place, it works both ways.
But you didn't answer my question, where are you basing your tier lists off? Your own opinion? If so it would mean we should probably wait and see what the community thinks of him, BHVR will buff or nerf him if he needs it.
Best thing we can do rn is wait for it to go to live and give feedback though.
Yeah I agree they aren't that severe and the anti camp component is fine. I'm not really arguing as to their severity as much as the principle itself.
I believe that the opinions of those who did manage to test him properly matter a bit more than the claims of those who only read the power description. But, even those opinions do hold weight.
Feedback for this game has no officially attached form submission. It's just people on the internet shouting. It's why the system is so flawed. There's no way to know how many accounts are the same person spamming, or which actually played the ptb, or who's parroting a CC. So how do they determine who to listen to?
Unfortunately, the only thing they can do is read between the lines…. or at least attempt to do so.
If you disregard all testing in the PTB because it's "not real matches" then that defeats a lot of the point of the PTB. Part of the PTB is for power level testing.
No need to be so aggressive. I didn't dismiss anything. You dismissed people because of assumptions and because they cared about things you didn't.
My personal tier lists are based on my own testing. So if it's my own testing I get dismissed because we need the communities opinion and if it's based on CC's we also need the communities opinion. So in other words any opinions from the PTB are completely invalid. Gotcha. This is dismissing a lot of the PTB's intent.
"BHVR will buff or nerf him if he needs it."
Again their track record shows this is not the case and I didn't get examples of otherwise. I got Blight, which is valid and Lich 2 years later. That's it.
Probably no way they could. Makes it hard to get accurate feedback for sure. It is pretty much just internet shouting.
So why are you making decisions for me on what I think is you dismissing me? You are hilarious.
As for you moving the goalposts, how about this, I'm gonna continue being excited for this chapter and you can keep moaning, if he is weak he is weak, I'll see it for myself.
literally amusing people think they've figured a character out in less than a month of test servers.
I didn't make any decisions for you. You just said I had dismissed something when I hadn't.
No ones moaning. Literally just pointed out we shouldn't dismiss people's opinions because we assume they didn't test the PTB. I don't think that's a monumental statement.
I don't think anyone claims to have figured out the killer from a PTB, just impressions from playing them on the PTB. The point of a PTB.
To be fair there aren't many examples of BHVR buffing killers after release because there didn't need to be many. Among the more recent killer roster, The First, Krasue, Springtrap, Ghoul, Dracula, Chucky and Xenomorph all released in a fairly strong or really strong state. With Houndmaster being a good example of a killer that did receive buffs very quickly after release.
And if we want to count killers that got buffed from ptb to live, because there was feedback that they might be too weak, Krasue was giga buffed to a ridiculous state, Ghoul got buffed, just like Dracula. Plus after his release, Dracula got some nice buffs as well in a patch shortly after his release.
Unknown is the most recent killer that to this day is arguably just ok and nothing more. And DnD Vecna needed to wait a bit for his buffs, although he always did get some nerfs alongside those buffs as well.
So I would argue BHVR's track record when it comes to killer balance within the last few years has been quite good, at least when looking at the killers that released during that time. Of course there is no denying that BHVR is still too slow when it comes to killer balance, or balance in general.
Its a function of how long it takes BHVR to do anything. First of all btw, lich got more nerfs than buffs overall, so that is a bad example. Blight also release in 4.2 which was released on September 8th 2020. They didn't fix his camera being way too low to the ground until 4.6.0 which was 6 months later. And then every other change has been a nerf pretty much. So again, a bad example.
The point is BHVR moves slower than a glacier at making any kind of changes. So when they nerf something out of PTB to live that the general consensus around it is that it isn't OP to begin with (remember, we are comparing this to things like, nurse and blight and ghoul). Like, was the PTB version of jason better than nurse? blight? ghoul? no, i think we can all agree that is the case. So why does he need to be nerfed then? What about him warranted it?
So now, we have to sit with it for at least 3 months, before they even acknowledge (and that is if we are lucky) that maybe he is a bit undertuned, but then we probably need to wait 6-9 months to see any changes. And again, that is if we are lucky. Often it takes them literal years before they do anything.
There's a few solid in there, but the vast majority of the roster either didn't get buffed, were nerfed, or the buffs were extremely minor/irrelevant. If they didn't make it to A tier after, that makes them weak. B tier and below in DBD is bad against remotely good players. If we look across the spectrum of killers the vast majority are not A tier. If the majority are below A tier in the past few years I wouldn't personally call that good at all. If we want to say they've done just better the last few years comparatively I could agree with that, but on a grand scale I would not say good. They can be doing better and still bad at the same time basically. Dracula and Ghoul are some good examples though I'd agree. Krasue after being over buffed got over nerfed and isn't in a good spot right now so I wouldn't agree with her.
" Like, was the PTB version of jason better than nurse? blight? ghoul?
no, i think we can all agree that is the case. So why does he need to be
nerfed then? What about him warranted it? "
"So now, we have to sit with it for at least 3 months, before
they even acknowledge (and that is if we are lucky) that maybe he is a
bit undertuned, but then we probably need to wait 6-9 months to see any
changes. And again, that is if we are lucky. Often it takes them literal
years before they do anything."
Yeah this is a lot of my points I agree with as well.
Unless there is a "fun" factor problem for either side I don't see why anything should be getting nerfed from the PTB if it isn't S tier. Anything at A tier or below doesn't need nerfs.
The problem isn't "theyll buff if he is weak". The problem is how long does that take? Bhvr said they'd also
Saying "we will fix it (within 10 years)" is the same as saying "we aren't gonna fix it".
Yes I completely agree with you. I thought I made it clear by "normalizing survivor audio" I would consider that a survivor buff so min/maxers wouldn't feel like they HAD to play Ace. There's tons of other examples too I'm more than happy to call out: anti-camp, anti-slug, better defense against S tier killers, not needing to budget perks for "base game" behaviors, etc. etc. BHVR has not implemented many of their promises for either side. That's not a reason to celebrate a mid tier killer getting nerfed cause of reasons. I will happily say I'm a killer main and primarily focused on killer issues, but survivor issues are equally as important and required for the health of the game.
Terrible
Have the feedback form be done in game so that it is directly linked to the account and feedback could be sorted based on playtime (or any other data point you want). They could still have open feedback, but there's a pretty clear way they could link feedback to the actual PTB account.
That would be a great idea.