nerf the generator speed and buff gen regression
Its the only way to stop the gen rushing.
Its the only way to stop the gen rushing.
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He's got a point though. Playing in a SWF massively makes survivor better than it already is (it's the stronger role)
Highly disagreed. They shouldnt nerf gen speeds.
What needs to be done:
give survivors aura reading on each other for the entire trial base kit, unaffected by blindness or other perks.
If any survivor has line of sight on the killer, that killer’s aura is revealed to all survivors.
Then we can consider some killer buffs.
Wrong.
So you think giving survivors basicaly global wallhacks is way to go.
Prove me wrong
All survivors need is basekit kindred (not killer aura) and thats about it. Also the things you suggested would:
#1 make every blindness perk/addon etc useless
#2 give permanent wallhacks aka making mindgaming impossible
Didnt think about #2, that’s a good point.
Of course he won't, and he can't. Whereas I have undeniable proof that Killer is horrible, and that survivor looks worse because of bad survivor players
I'm not sure it's the base gen speeds as much as it's bhbr giving survivors so many tools that increase progress and they stack.
However it would probably be better for the overall game health if survivors had to do more to repair gens. Like collect parts to be able to make a certain amount of progress so that way they are moving around the map now often.
Base gen speeds are problematic alone too though. Finding your first survivor after everyone already stealthed to different gens and the chaser\only needs to last a minute and a half is pretty much grits for the killer if the killer they're playing isn't an A tier or better. there needs to be a required side objective for gens, but also it needs to have a good reward or tradeoff, like finding gas after half the gen is repaired and then filling the gen will stop the gen from regressing past a certain percentage, or a part to install, something thematic. Gens are boring to do, but also they are easy to do and really fast with good positioning, which is where SWFs or just full teams of experienced survivors shine.
sure, but only if hard nerfs come to nurse blight and ghoul
Don't we have the stats for that?
Isn't it like a 6% difference with Killers still coming out ahead lol
You can still think Killers need buffs, but pretending they are the weaker role is just that, pretending. The game is balanced to favor them.
At high MMR, I'd say survivor is the stronger role. When people knows how to teamplay, it is really hard to put any pressure on them.
But at lower MMR, killer is undoubtedly stronger.
You can enjoy using the stats and fitting it to your narrative, but that's all it is. I dont understand why people will say stats dont matter and then in another situation the stats will be brought up anyway.
Survivors have the agency in this game. Most of the time if survivors all die it's due to their own mistakes. Even against A+ tier killers you should have a 2 man escape at least (assuming no massive blunders), which in my opinion is balanced. It's hard to say for every match due to map rng, sometimes the survivors can have easy matches and sometimes not, but this is the general state of the game. The only exceptions are blight and nurse those killers are unbalanced. Nurse too but she's actually punishing to play if you cant play her. Ghoul got figured out, he's good still but not OP imo, and dracula and hillbilly are strong but require significant brain usage, many players cant play them to the full potential.
And where's your empirical evidence?
Even at "High MMR" we see Killers performing well.
Gen regression got nerfed BECAUSE everyone was using 4 gen-regression all the time 24/7.
Which lead to survivors using genrush 24/7.
The reason they havent stopped is because they play against kaneki who use 3 gen-regression with blood favour on maps that barely have a decent pallet count.
Why would a survivor who takes 120s to do a gen, not feel pressured to genrush more than they did before?.
Not like you already pushed away majority of casual from last years constant nerfs to soloq, but im sure this will give you alot more sweaty swfs as a result to nerfing them again.
There's no good empirical evidence to be used. I am talking strictly from my opinion. If you want empirical evidecne i can give you my survivor win rates and killer win rates, but they mean nothing, just like the stats you are using to suppo.
This comes from the same stats i assume.
Im not going to argue back and forth. This is my opinion and i think many others share this opinion too. You are free to use your empirical evidence but dont think that it is facts.
'Empirical evidence' IS facts. That's what that entails.
My individual empirical evidence suggests that survivor is significantly overpowered compared to killer. But we both know what that empirical evidence entails. You can stop this game now. Nobody believes in these empirical evidence until it fits their narrative.
This is data gathered by BHVR from hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of matches.
It means slightly more than your data gathered from tens of matches.
Empirical evidence IS the same thing as a fact. There can be context added, but you really can't argue with the official numbers unless you want to say BHVR is just falsifying everything.
Gen regression got nerfted due to that yes, but a majority of killers need those perks because their power doesn't help them in a chase in which leads to more time wasted trying to down a single survivor. This did lead to survivors using genrush 24/7, however with the nerfs to gen regression it has not stopped and ironically has been buffed. This has led to our current pool of meta killers that specialize in map mobility and can close out a chase relatively fast. The only other option is to slug, and we all know what's next on the chopping block.
There is not even a shortage casual players from the past years, soloq has been buffed in many ways I don't know where you are getting that. In fact, I would argue this is probably one of the most survivor friendly times for a long time even when not playing swf.
Nah, you have to prove youre right. Otherwise its just a false claim. But we know both that this not gonna happen. Cause its not reasonable proofable.
Yes, I really cant argue with official stats. They are 100% correct in exactly what they are representing. It's impossible to falsify them considering that they come from BHVR themselves too. You are absolutely right that the empirical evidence which you used to prove your point is 100% true in their numbers. Killers as you said do have a 6% higher win rate even at higher MMR ( I think that's what you meant, sorry if this is wrong). Thanks for the clarification.
Then BUFF THESE SECTION OF KILLERS.
NOT NERF SURVIVOR OR BUFF KILLER AS A WHOLE.
The stats are not realistic. Most survivors don't play well. Assuming you play against 4 good players. solo queue or not survivor is still better. I'd be happy to show you some games from my own records if you'd like me to prove it.
It's not that easy, or it could be, but I don't think survivors as a whole would not "enjoy" it. If we keep how easily it is to pop all gens in less than a few minutes, then the powers/abilities need to become more threatening if left unchecked or ignored without nerfing gen speeds. Unfortunately, that would require a major overhaul to many of our current killer roster and let's be honest a rework, let alone many of them, is not really going to happen. There are quite a bit of hex perks that can accomplish this, but due to spawn locations and the crutch some have with revealing their auras to survivors, make them unreliable.
But all killers do?
Why is the skill argument always a one-way street?
You dismiss the official stats then offer to show your own as though that would paint a more realistic picture of the game. You're one person, and you may not even be very good at the game. I'll refer to the devs stats, personally.
Why would we care about personal records when we have game-wide statistics available to us?
I dont suggest arguing with a guy who relies on stats of a game with poor matchmaking that mixes tryhards with casuals, has a significant amount of people who often give up or troll around, and complain about gameplay strats rather than adapting and getting better. Not to mention the console players who have been and still are playing at a disadvantage, and yet they are in the same queue with PC players.
Your experience and opinion does not matter. the numbers show that the game is apparently killer sided. According to the FACTS, we have to nerf every killer and give survivors buffs across the board.
They are statistically proven to play better. There are 4 times more survivor players than killers, you're chances of getting a bad player is very unlikely
Because the official stats are cap
That's the cost of BHVR just not making better tutorials. If they actually made tutorials on how certain powers work, maybe survivor players wouldn't suck so much
You're arguing against it, so prove yourself right. I'll back up my claims once I see you at least know what you're talking about
How are they statistically proven to play better, exactly?
Oh?
You have access to information that we do not? You are able to prove the, admittedly monumental, claim that BHVR has falsified their data?
Do tell us more.
If you cant proove your own claim, there is nothing to discuss here. And thats means youre Lying on purpose.
You said I'm wrong first, so prove it
Thus they are 4 times more likely to not be very good. That's math, and it's very representative of why kill rates are so high on garbage killers like Sadako and Freddy (Freddy is the deadliest killer of the first quarter of 2025 btw, and his kit still isn't too powerful) Kill rates are high because most survivors don't know how to counter certain powers. Freddy got reworked, so the millions of casual survivor players who already aren't too experienced essentially have to learn a whole new killer. This isn't rocket science, ngl.
Well, i guess by that logic Sadako and Freddy are broken, because they have over a 60% kill rate. Freddy is even hovering around 70% AND was the deadliest killer way back in first quarter 2025. Does Freddy and Sadako need a nerf then? No
Stats, like I keep saying and keep having to say for some reason (seriously no clue how almost no one on forums can understand this concept) do not mean a thing. You can't just take those stats to heart when you know well that most players aren't playing well or fully taking advantage of what their role has to offer. Just like how BHVR Nerfs perks for example because they're "popular" that doesn't mean it was broken, though it being good could be a factor to its high usage rate.
I would expect you of all people to know this, Pulsar, seeing as you are a veteran player. And maybe a side quest for you too, ask another veteran who still plays the game if it's killer sided or not. I can guarantee you, they're going to laugh at you if you say it is. Sure it's nowhere near as bad as 2016, but its still a long way from fair for majority of the killer Roster.
That's not statistical proof, that's guesswork.
EDIT: It's also missing that by the same logic, they're also statistically more likely to be good players.
It's probability, not guesswork. Also preferably disregard the example completely and continue to lie to yourself
The example being Sadako and Freddy?
How's that an example? You personally decided they're bad killers, and then you concluded that the only possible reason for their high killrates must be 'survs bad'.
That's incredibly short-sighted. These killers may well be stronger than people give them credit, but their strengths might be harder to pick up on or master. Fewer people playing them means the dedicated one-tricks pull the KR up more due to their mastery of the killer.
I'm pretty sure we saw this with that one legendary Clown player, for example.
No they are not strong. What the hell are you talking about?
The word you are looking for is context.
Yes, Freddy and Sadako have those KR's. That's undeniable.
Why do they have those stats? Because they are difficult to follow for newer and intermediate players, which composes the vast majority of the playerbase. It makes perfect sense why they would top the charts over someone like Nurse or Blight.
The game has not been Survivor-sided in a long time. That is objective. To pretend otherwise is to live in a fantasy world because you can't deal with the truth.
'They are statistically proven to be stronger'
Yeah, maybe against the 60 something percent of people who don't know how her power works. She's horrible, and these stats aren't at all representative of her strength, more of just how bad majority of survivors are.
You do realise how hard you're leaning into the 'the stats say what I want them to say' thing here, right?