What's going on with babykillers and tunneling lately?
Sounds offensive I know but in the last week there was not a single game where the killer would not tunnel hard and/or proxy camp from the start of the match. These killers (mostly) did not make good use of their killers power but tried to outweigh that by tunneling hard and camping.
And I say babykiller even though Im no beginner (5 years in dbd) because these people actually do have hundreds if not more then a thousand hours in the game but play like it's their first week with the killer (while being p68 or smth).
While some people may be able to pull something off out of this situation, most of the players are not on coms and therefor will not be able to resolve the situation easily.
So basically you play like in a tournament against soloq casual players.
2 things are the result from this:
1. People don't want to play with you and if you start to face good teams they will stomp you and (rightfully) make fun of you.
2. You will win a few matches but your mmr will increase to a level you don't belong to, so if you don't tunnel hard at 5 gens you will loose every single match.
So this goes out to people who cannot play without tunneling at 5 gens:
Go back to the drawing board. Your strategy will only carry you for a little while and then teams will eat you alive. Watch streamers or youtubers to develop an understanding for your killers power and especially develop game sense.
If you need more then a minute for a chase and no gen has popped you are most likely not faceing a team. So stop playing like your life depends on it.
In the end its a win win if you learn how to control your killer and are able to win matches that way, while survivors get a fair match. Trust me it feels a lot better to simply play better then your opponments being a very lethal killer then being an m1 brisket tunneling hard.
Tunneling later in the game is a different topic not realted to this one.
Comments
What is the point of this post? The game heavily discourages spreading hooks. Average to below average killers already get stomped by not tunneling. Not everyone plays this game like a full time job to be able to win with 12 hooks.
killer does well one match
killer, does horrible the next but mmr does NOT go down
killer in response uses meta perks
killers mmr is skyrocketed, and hes faced against meta surviviors
and losing over and over isnt fun, so the killer in response will win, by any means necessary(get the joke?)
Also true, killer gameplay has been incredibly discredited to the point where if you dont notice a frame of a survivior for a second, or fail to win a 50/50 mind game your called terrible despite having countless hours in the game
If that is your only point go look at my other posts.
Tunneling at 5 gens is pathetic and nothing else. If you don't have any skill, train.
it's like complaining playing more complex music is unfair because you don't get it from the start
…except for the fact, not everyone is like you, Atom. And not everyone wants to train to not be demolished in a game.
Tunneling at 5 gens isnt pathetic you literally have shoulder the burden which nullifies it. Maybe swap one of your 2nd crutch perks with it to cope.
Also, most killers wont tunnel at 5 gens, unless they notice you brought a map offering, 4x toobloxes or to many gens with progress. At that point it is crucial to tunnel for a minimum 2k…
and now you also have altruistic perks that counter hooking, slugging, and literally every single thing a killer can do to win. If you play alturistically instead of perks that benefit only you; maybe youll see a difference.
Its like complaining that someone played a easier music than you, when you also have easier music but decided to criticize instead of also using a easier piece
Frankly I don't want to have to make a game my job in order to simply not get my teeth kicked in with the Killers I enjoy playing.
Most of the nice guy killers have been pushed away from the game. We keep getting punished every patch to the point where it's just frustrating. That, and normal hook gameplay just isn't feasible when the devs keep punishing killers for hooking survivors (especially share the burden which affects all hooking, not just tunnelers) , so that just brings in more slugging.
Trying to tunnel 1 survivor out as fast as possible these days with all the anti-tunnel perks + the extra 20 seconds on hook stages is suicide as killer nowadays.
Maybe you should just get good…
And not cling to shame tactics using old, salt-borne terms.
We could easily say the same to those Killers who over-rely on those cheap tactics like tunneling, camping, and slugging.
to tunnel a camp, etc. you need to win the chase anyway
Do you mean average to below average killer characters or average to below average killer players?
This is literally not true and you would know that if you had played solo q in the past few weeks.
I can assure you that most of the killers I faced brought map offerings, played A or S-Tier killers and brought meta builds. Or all of these together.
Your analogy about music doesn't make much sense to me.
If you can't win a match without tunneling hard, then you lack skill. It is that simple. If you don't want to get better at the game, why even bother playing? If you don't want to get better and just play casual thats fine by me. But if you want to win so badly that you cannot do anything without tunneling, then I expect a little commitment from you as killer.
It is well proven that it is not that hard in most cases to have a fair amount of matches regardless how skilled you are. There are always bad matches because of mmr rubberbanding etc but ultimately if you fake your way to the upper league then don't expect to get away with it.
These people brought it on themself, so face they need to it and try to learn from it. As I said if tunneling is your only strategy you will soon learn how frustrating pro survs can make this game for you. And you will not get anywhere from there it is a dead end.
Aah the old "get good" argument.
I am learning to get better at looping and I know I am way better as killer then as survivor. The point here is that playing survivor is no fun if the killer is just an m1 brisket and has barely any clue how to chase or how to use the killers power. Whats the point of having a variety of killers if they all get played the same way?
And if you cannot win any matches without hard tunneling, well hate to break it to you but you lack skill then.
You will get humiliated either way. It's just a matter of time. And can you really say you had an intense good game if you do nothing but the cheapest tactic available? Can you reall feel good about it and be proud?
That's like going for mush potatoes because chips are too hard and spicy. You have teeth, so use them.
Agreed.
The most frustrating thing for me in dbd is not losing a match. It is having no chance from the start. And that includes a nurse tunneling at 5 gens or survivors on coms tbagging at the exit gate.
so basically you're crying because killers tunneled you recently
I dont know if you don't really read my post or any of the answer given but it doesn't look like you understood the topic
tunneling at "5 gens" doesn't exist, it's a made up term made by highly inefficient soloQ teams where:
If it happens to you, it's pure failure of you and your own team to be efficient at all, and killer just took advantage of it, because if your team fails to do any gens by the time first chase is finished, that's a serious problem of your team (or you if you lasted extremely short in chase)
if they are baby killers you shouldn't have difficulty beating them
You are not wrong.
Most problems survivors face in this game are caused by their teammates. While there are some cases of killers playing in manners worth complaining about, I myself rarely ever think much about what a killer did past the end screen (unless they were really cool, then I never forget). But my teammates? Oof. Don't touch gens, go down within seconds, rush in for a save or run in circles around the gen we almost had done or spend all their time in lockers and behind rocks. Get slugged under a hooked survivor and stay there. Every misplay they can make they do. And I just know that some of them are griping about the killer and how toxic he was when all he did was play killer.
If players would recognize this and complain about SBMM instead of their opposition's playstyle, maybe people's attention would be directed where it's warranted. Us vs Them is a form of misdirection that is unfortunately effective.
Because it's the most efficient strategy and the game incentivises kills over hook states. Before many gen regression perks were nerfed, killers could afford to go for more hooks, because more hooks = more regression. This is no longer the case, so, for as long as the game refuses to encourage going for hook states over kills, killers will go for the most efficient strategy to get kills, which is tunnelling, slugging, and camping.
SBMM is a huge problem for quite some time due to the fact that it's terrible and soft cap is way too easy to reach (meaning accuracy at matchmaking once you hit it is really low because any MMR score hundred s of points higher than that also falls in matchmaking with people that just reached it.
On top of that, survivor role is dependent on having all 4 teammates that actually are capable of doing something and having basic macro gameplay knowledge. The reasons why i think BHVR doesn't want to change their SBMM system and at least raise the soft cap are:
Basically, for now we are all victims of a curse where scrims are basically the only way of having an accurate and fair matchmaking with fair balance rules.
This isn't a player problem, and it shouldn't be expected for players - who have varying levels of skill - to fix it.
This is a game design problem. If the Devs make these tactics useful, appealing, and a way to win, because they demand winning means a 3-4k or you're garbage, then they need to design the game better.
Just because you have teeth doesn't mean you know how to use them or that the hunt you're in is designed to be able to let you use them. Especially when using them feels more detrimental than just falling back to brute force. if you really can't chew the chips, and the game is demanding you chew the chips, then why wouldn't you just give up and go for mashed potatoes? You're hungry after all and your goal is potatoes.
There should never, never, ever be a case in this game where ANYONE is able to get humiliated in a one-sided stomp. Ever. So why wouldn't Killers and Survivors play this way? Why not genrush and tunnel? After all you want to not be humiliated, you want to win, so why not use the easiest thing available? There's no incentive not to except pride, and pride is the first damn thing to go out the window in a situation where you just do not want to be humiliated.
Because humiliation is painful. There's actually studies on how repeated feelings of humiliation and shame, in any setting, can cause emotional and mental damage to people. It ends up feeling similar to your body as if you have been having your heart repeatedly broken or been repeatedly stabbed in the gut as you learn NOT to go easy on anyone to avoid that negative stimulus. That's normal and that's literally actually how your brain reacts to repeated rejection and humiliation, it sees it and parses it as PAIN you're supposed to avoid.
So why wouldn't you, when gamer culture tells you winning is everything, go hard all the time and choose mashed potatoes over chips if it means avoiding pain? The chips are sharp and hard and can cut your gums, the mashed potatoes might make you look like a baby but they at least give you a break from gum laceration. Being told you suck due to how gamer culture works is all about shaming the other person for not being good enough. It's stupid, it's cruel, but that's how it works. Gamer culture is BASED on abuse and humiliating people.
And that's really sad.
Finally someone says the truth. It's almost never just Killers being sweats. Both sides sweat, pretty hard too.
It's mismatches and teammates being useless. 9/10 times my games are lost not because the Killer was being a jerk or sweating or wants to be cruel, but because they want to win and my teammate thinks I "didn't do enough" and leads them to me, or misreads a situation, or isn't anyone else's similar skill level against an equally competent Killer, or is there to grief me, or just doesn't like my face, or is more comp than me when I'm goofing around with my friends.
9/10 times it's not the Killer humping me on the floor and bleeding us all out, it's some salty SoloQer telling me to get cancer and delete the game because I DARED to be the guy that got targeted by a tunnelling Chucky, or I waited a tad too long behind a tree with my stealth build to come save my friend from a hook so therefore I deserve to have Bubba led to me when I'm one of the last two, or they think I'm a baby with 50 hours despite clearly knowing how to play because they believe THEY'RE the main character.
BHVR was right on that Reddit thread about SoloQers. Y'all are selfish. Y'all play selfishly. Y'all don't care about your team, or you're so incompetent it doesn't matter. Y'all only care about your precious escapes, adepts, challenges, etc. and it creates situations where nobody has any fun except the Killer who gets free kills on the rest of us and easy wins. And it makes me really not want to play Survivor outside of a full SWF at all, because at least as Killer my successes or failures are mostly up to my skill, who I got matched with, and RNG.
The game isn't ruined for me as Survivor by sweaty Killers. It's ruined for me by crappy Survivors. Shame on literally all of you SoloQers, be better.
I agree that bad survivors do have a huge impact on your match. There is no questioning that.
But I still have seen far too many matches with killers proxy camping the first survivor andthen tunnel hard if he ever gets off the hook.
You can blame it on skill but I think there aren't a ton of people who survive a chase with nurse with barely any distance for long. I even think the majority of players do not survive for long if they get tunneled. That may be because the other teammates dont take hits but that is also not very easy to coordinate in solo q.
Solo q players don't have the information needed to deal with these situations. After a while you will know the pattern and can assume what to do to make the best of the situation but the majority of the playerbase does not and there is nothing wrong with that.
It is very hard to anticipate what to do or where your teammates are in solo q and that makes it a lot harder to win the match.
I agree that it is the most efficient strategy but I don't feel like this is sportmanship.
If I play a game that challenges my brain and my skill why do I do everything to bypass the challenge?
Yes it is hard up to impossible against comp teams but to be fair those are not as common as people think.
It was the same in Lights Out.
The challenge was no scratch marks and low vision.
People played legion to bypass it. It is smart on the initial thought but bypassing the challenge invokes the question of why even trying the challenge.
Just curious, if there was 3 generators remaining, 2 of them are at 0 progress and 1 of them is at 80% do you start calling the survivor a skilless pleb if they go do the generator at 80% progress?
It's nice to see more people coming around to this realization. I've been complaining about my teammates for sooo long. Some of them are just new, so I don't blame them, I blame the terrible matchmaking. Others, however, are ridiculously selfish or purposeful trolls.
I've had some amazing solo queue games where my teammates played like they gave a damn and so we all took care of each other. Decent teammates are unicorns, I talk lovingly about those matches nonstop for a week and reminisce regularly forever after. When I play duo, if we have a good teammate who's in trouble, I'll go the extra mile and even tell my friend "I'm going to die for this unhook, make sure this guy gets out." It's nice to escape, but outside of challenges it's not important. I just want to have some fun. It feels good to do something risky and altruistic, and there's no actual danger because it's a video game and not real life. Then there are my teammates who hide on the outskirts of the map all match because apparently if they die in the game they die in real life. And I'll skip talking about the intentional sandbagging, throwing, quitting, trolling, etc.
Killers mostly play to win. Some will do things that have nothing to do with winning for no other reason than to make others miserable (lol, how pathetic, like anything they can do compares to solo queue teammates), but that's not the norm at all. If playing to win isn't fun for either the player or the opponents, that's either a flaw in the gameplay design or a sign the unhappy person is playing the wrong game. The playerbase likes to try to instruct others on how to play to win, often not to help them win more but for the advice-giver's benefit. Telling opponents "Don't play efficiently, lighten up because that's more fun for your opponent" is strange.
Anyway, I'm rambling. My bad.
Ah, now you're talking about flaws in the game's design. I agree that the game is very flawed. When the game throws serious and casual players with varying degrees of skill and possibly conflicting playstyles into the same lobbies, we end up with a lot of matches full of friction between four people who are supposed to be teammates going against a killer who probably doesn't share their opinion of just how casual or competitive the game is.
I'm glad solo queue has gained so much info. It doesn't replace the power communication provides SWF, but that's at least partially user error as is proven by the number of teammates who teabag incessantly demanding to heal me when I'm broken.
Im not sure I understand the comparison here.
Anyways it is not the best move because the killer will most like not go far from the last gen being that high progressed. If someone lures him away from the gen, you can try but killers with high mobility will likely come back to it fast.
Splitting gens would be better because the killer cannot be at 2 places at the same time. So (depending on how many are still alive) having someone hovering the progressed gen to keep the killer in that area while others do one other gen far from it is the better way. If the killer goes for other gens the survivor hovering can then complete it.
The question of skill here is that you know how to use the power of your killer to it's max.
For example:
Chucky can do incredible mindgames because hes small, you got third person view and stealth.
Skill is knowing the max range of your slice and dice, or knowing when to use it for mobillity.
Skill is keeping track of where you saw survivors, which gen was progressed and where survivors might run according to your position and the gens left.
All these microtasks you have to wrap your head around in a match is what ultimately enables a killer to be more lethal. Of course it also depends on the experience of the survivors or how lucky they are with winning 50/50 gambles.
You can use the best build and the best add-ons (though I doublt double iri is the best for chucky but I don't know it) and you can tunnel, slug and camp. But it kind of depends on how you use this if you want to be respected.
As I said. Tunneling one survivor out early is the most efficient way but also the cheapest because solo q players often cannot counter the loss of 1 survivor. The chances of winning a match on the survivor side drops by a huge amount if one player dies at 3 or 2 gen's left.
So you can call it a day if one goes out on 5 gens.
Respect needs to be earend. And nobody will call you a good killer if you don't know how to micromanage your time in a match and just do the same thing everybody else can do.
The most lethal killers in dbd are not the one tunneling at 5 gens. The most lethal killers are those who mastered their killer and have a good game sense. Like a huntress throwing the hatchet across the map because she anticipates your movement. Or a demogorgon placing portals well, surprising survivors and having quick downs with precise dash attacks.
If you have comp teams against you, do whatever you want. I despise comp teams playing event queue and I actually think if 4 people always play together the killer should get a hint because then he at least know what kind of game hes up against.
I am not sure what exactly you are on about with the rest of your text
You are but another tree in the vast forest of people who have no idea what's going on in DbD.
"Tunneling," "Camping," and "Slugging" are scrub-terms that came from survivors being salty about losing.
Ignorantly perpetuating this sort of bogus nomenclature in a feeble attempt to control how people play killer is the only real problem.
This is a mischaracterization. All those actions are extremely cheap moves that make the game almost pointless to play from a survivor's perspective and which generally take almost no skill to perform.
Put yourself in the survivor's position and take tunneling as an example: Is it fun at all to not get to participate in any way other than to be chased for your entire match and eliminated with no realistic chance of escape? What's the point in even playing survivor if that's what's going to happen?
But does the tunneled survivor usually get to enjoy the match? I know I don't find it fun in any way, and I suspect a lot of people feel the same. Maybe we should do a poll on this in the polls subforum; I don't want to assume I speak for everyone.
In any case, if the tunneled survivor isn't incredible at looping, the killer is going to have them out pretty fast, even while they spread some pressure on gens as they wait for the unhook. With a bit of slowdown, this can make a 1v3 pretty effectively, causing the match to become nearly pointless for the rest of the team. I personally play a decent amount of killer, but I would feel awful doing this to anyone outside of a bully squad. The opposing side should get to enjoy the game too :)
Either way, I appreciate the genuine comment (rather than the typical "But it's the killer's goal!")
It really does make no sense to complain your opponent is going too hard when their only goal is to eliminate you. Killers have one goal and it's to kill Survs. Survivors have one goal and it's gens. I am MORE than willing to offer my kill, offer hooks, let some people go, purposefully tie, or let people get some gens if you're struggling.
But I want to be treated like an actual human being with thoughts, feelings, and a desire to simply play the game. Not like fodder or like a horrible person just because of who I'm playing. I just. Want. To play. The game.
And the game says as Killer I have to kill you, and as Survivor I need to do gens and get out. There is nothing sweaty, problematic, or unsportsmanlike about doing whatever the game allows me or anyone else to do in order to reach that goal. This entire community has GOT to stop being babies whining about "my side my side my side" and start seeing the other side's issues, because they're substantial on both damn sides. I am so damn sick of the entitlement in this community and the NEEDLESS Killer player slander that keeps. Happening. Killer players are people who want to play Killer in the video game, not actual villains cackling behind screens out to ruin your chance at a win by using tactics the game allows them to do in order to eliminate you in the elimination game.
I think MOST Survivor Main players REALLY need to hear these, so all of you pay attention:
Nobody. Owes. You. Mercy. In. A competitive. Minded. Game.
Killer. Players. Are not. Themselves. The problem.
IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BRING THE TOUGHEST PERKS, ITEMS, TACTICS, A FULL SWF, MAP OFFERINGS, ETC. TO WIN, THERE IS
N O
REASON NOT ONE TO COMPLAIN IF THE KILLER SLUGS, TUNNELS, CAMPS, AND DOES EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO ALSO WIN.
IF YOU PLAY THAT WAY, YOU ARE
N O
BETTER THAN THE SWEATY BLIGHT WITH FOUR SLOWDOWN WHO BROUGHT YOU ALL TO COLDWIND.
The fact of the matter is this: Killer is the serious mode where you can choose mercy; Survivor is and always has been the party mode. Sweat goes both ways. If as Killer you're pushing super hard with the toughest things all the time and you care THAT HARD about a damn winstreak, you are a sweaty Killer and you are what's wrong with the game, NOT Survivors trying to have fun. If as Survivor, you care THAT HARD about escapes, genrushing, escape streaks, or doing anything other than trying to survive and succeeding/failing with your friends in a party atmosphere to the point you are telling people to off themselves for playing meme builds and griefing them for not being as serious as you, then you are a sweaty Survivor and you are what's wrong with the game, NOT Killers doing what Killers do.
And nobody likes or wants to play with you for a reason.
You don't actually want more skilled Killers.
Skilled Killers that learn their characters well are a menace. Skilled Killers learn things like Urobending, how to hide and juke the Reveal mechanic as Ghostface, how to bump logic as Blight, how to use the Blink properly as Nurse. Skilled Killers learn little tricks that make you go, "HOW DID THEY GET THAT HIT THEY MUST HAVE CHEATED" but all they did was learn the game and their Killer well. Skilled Killers learn what perks work with their powers and playstyles, how to adapt, and what to do against certain strong Survivor tactics. Skilled Killers learn when to drop chase, how long to chase, when to go where, game sense, when and how and where to do tactics you consider "extremely cheap" because they're the right move in a situation… and they do those things VERY WELL.
Skilled Killer are Skilled Killers who use tactics you don't like very, very well, but also don't need to always use those. Skilled Killers adapt.
We've heard it all before.
You don't want more skilled Killers. No trueblooded Survivor Main actually does, because Survivors just wanna win these days. Kinda like they've been accusing Killers of doing for years. You don't want stronger more skilled Killers. You actually want Killers you can easily beat, so weak their powers mean nothing. Easily looped, easily beaten, not a true threat, more "fun" for you but less enjoyable for the person playing. Well, you're GETTING Killers like that with the nerfs going on recently. Now you have Killers that fall back more and more and more and more on these unfun tactics nobody likes, including Killers, and people wonder why that's happening.
When will it be enough?
Using fancy words doesn't mean your're right. It just shows that you feel like you know better even when you're factual wrong.
So take off the monopoly hat and try to view the situation from other peoples perspective.
Just because you invent names for situations doesn't mean they do not matter. Well I can tell they do not matter to you because you don't care about good games.
Saying I have no idea what's going on in dbd, yet saying survivors are just salty is the most ignorant thing I heard in this forum in a while.
Well as you said yourself "good team" most of the players are in solo q or at least don't play in a squad of 4. So they lack information that would enable them to escape.
If the one getting tunneled is not that good at looping (which is not a shame because everybody starts somewhere) then you simply don't have enough time to do the gens and open the gate because this survivor will die at least at 3 gen's left.
So the whole strategy of tunneling only falls apart IF the survivor being tunneled is good at looping and IF the other survivors know what to do out of the situation and IF they can coordinate.
A lot of times people try to take hits or trade stages but this then also leads to nothing because they just get slugged and that means only 1 person is left to do gens. How many survivors can pull off a 5 minute chase?
Yes I agree that having on surv die for the others also can feel nice. But if you go out at 3 gens your sacrifice had no meaning and the match is pretty much over.
But dbd is NOT a competitive minded game.
At least not for the majority of the player base.
So you with your "I do everything to win mindset" will go up against people who just got back from work and want to chill a little in the game.
BHVR never could decide wether it wants dbd to be casual or competitive and that splits the playerbase a lot.
I agree that Killers have to kill and Survivors have to survive. That's why it is called the main objective.
But by your logic we should award players with a trophy if the spawn camp in CoD and therefore have a lot of kills, because killing the other players was the main objective.
Do you see the flaws in your logic?
I don't think there's a need for getting 12 hooks, just that people won't want to play the game when they face things that make the game pointless to play. There's very little someone can do if they are tunneled; they don't get to participate in the game except to be chased and eliminated, which isn't the expected gameplay loop.
The devs may have originally supported camping before realizing how little fun it is, but the introduction of anti facecamp shows that they understand some things will make the game worse. The thing is that survivors have very little they can do to a killer to prevent them from playing as expected. The killer always has the ability to pursue survivors. The best play survivors can generally make is to spread out on gens. Even bully squads are typically ineffective at stopping the killer. But the killer has multiple actions that make gameplay rather miserable for survivors, and tunneling is probably the one most able to do that.
Also, tunneling won't do much to make survivors better at the game. I'd suspect tunneled people are much more likely to give up on hook and just quit caring about any match where that's happening. Also, tunneling is likely to take place alongside the killer running straight to the unhook, leaving the targeted survivor unhealed. So unless an auto-heal was used, the survivor will get less time in chase this way since they're still injured. So they even get less practice looping than they should.
And don't get me wrong, there are times whe these things are likely to be reasonable. Have no kills and egc is triggered? Probably camp a hook. And I think most survivors aren't going to complain about tunneling if it's only done during egc. They've gotten to play a full match at that point and will recognize that exit gates are 99ed, so an unhook can easily mean an escape. If there are flashlight saves, flashbangs, hook sabos? Slugging might get more reasonable since you'll pobably down two people instead of one. And if there's a bully squad? Probably a slugfest...
But beyond that, I don't think we should be trying to get people to delete the game. People play games for fun, so we should probably pursue a game state where all players have a chance to enjoy their match, even when it doesn't go their way. I know that personally I never say gg to killers who tunnel, camp, or slug for 4k because they've taken actions that make the game easier for themselves at the cost of the enjoyment of the other players. But against killers who play without those tactics, I'll almost always give a gg and even compliment their gameplay and have a nice post-game chat, even when I get sacrificed or even in a 4k because everyone got to play an enjoyable game.
It's okay, being angry at the truth is part of the acceptance process.
Well from the way you're responding, it seems like you don't actually possess the most basic understanding of what a PvP (player versus player) game is, you're sort of trying to hover in some kind of non-existent grey area.
Since the dawn of time, the object of every PvP game has been for the players to try to beat each other.
If somebody wants to "chill after work" in a game, then why would they try to do that in a PvP environment which is naturally competitive? Why not choose a single-player game which is designed for you to go at your own pace?
It's like trying to put a cubic block into a triangular hole and getting mad that it doesn't fit.
Which fighting games do you mean?
Also, I play a bunch of killer; there are some of us who play the way I describe. Though I'll admit that bets are off for bully squads… they get approximately the treatment you describe :/
Generally, I think that a perk shouldn't be necessary to counter a basekit ability of the opposing side. Once items, perks, and add-ons are included, then yeah, perks can be a good counter. But tunneling is very effective in removing at least one player from the game in almost every instance. And it still makes the match awful for the targeted player a lot of the time. I guess the question comes down to whether the person doing it cares about how their target feels.
But you're right about tunneling for multiple gens. Tunneling executed poorly can be a mess against a good looper. But I have to say I rarely see a survivor loop well enough against me that I think they'd keep me occupied for more than one generator duration. Though that can mean three gens pop against a very good team. So it's really critical to end the first chase before a gen finishes, or at worst, as the first one is finishing.
Oddly enough, normally I feel a little jaded talking with people expressing the same opinions as you're currently expressing. But for some reason I like your posts. Maybe it's because you're explaining in a very non-confrontational way, or you're taking the time to really express yourself. Anyway... 🙂
Honestly I try to play for the 12 hooks and only ever go after the same survivor if they make a mistake and run into me or if im down to 2 gens and have only 2 hook stages (this rarely ever happens).
Idk what your normal game looks like and at what mmr you are. I can't tell what mine is either but considering I win 7 to 8 out of 10 matches and the way survs play I think its pretty high.
If I know I go up against comp teams I have to play different, more aggressive and more locked in. But if im up against solo q (which you will notice after a few minutes into the game what your up against) I don't really feel the need to take the easy route.
So in 5 out of 10 matches I go for 12 hooks and only in 2 or 3 I have to soft tunnel and it is very rare for me to ever tunnel hard.
Maybe I would win more often if I'd tunnel hard from the start but I don't like playing like that and I am good with the amount of matches I win.
I am not so sure about that.
As I said some solo q players can pull that off. The majority can't.
Blaming them for not being on your level won't lead anyone anywhere. It takes at least a few hundred hours of dbd to get decent.
And most of the people only got good at looping after they played the game for more then 1 or 2 thousand hours.
I m not sure the majority of the player base plays that much dbd to get there.
Solo q players do not have the same coordination then swf players so there is no good comparison for these two parties.
Blaming survivors for not playing up to your standards is not a way to justify tunneling.
Good, another hypocrite gone is actually improving the discussion.
Basically your whole post was wrapped around that topic so good job tripping for nothing.
If we extrapolate your logic from the fighting games and apply it to the situation I described in my initial post…
We could agree that there were a lot of people better then us when we started dbd (which is normal) and we didn't ran into them because of mmr (after sbmm was introduced).
However if every killer in all categories plays like I described it .. then I think the same what happened in the fighting games you described will happen in dbd too.
There will be no new players because they don't enjoy the game. And I can't blame them. Getting tunneled or seeing someone getting tunneled every match is very frustrating and boring. So if you then don't even know how to play around that. New players will most likely not stick around.
Veteran players like myself and others will eventually stop playing survivor or dbd alltogether (playing killer can also be very frustrating and boring sometimes)
Among the group of people I know I am the last one to actually play dbd and I already had a few breaks because I did not have any fun anymore (especially playing survivor).
Now we can debate a lot about the egg and the chicken but ultimately this means that more and more players will stop playing , amplifiny and ramping up the situation because only those who play comp and tunnel stay.
It kind of is a downwards spiral which may lead to the end of dbd. The playerbase is already in decline and Im not sure there is something to stop that until dbd is fun to play for people of all skill levels again.
Because… fundamentally… people like to win when they play games. The challenge is how to win the match - not how to get he most hook states, not how to win while also letting the other side have fun, not how to pip and rank up since ranks mean nothing anymore - the goal is to win by getting at least three kills, by any means necessary. This is what the devs and the game push as the win condition, therefore, people are going to find the most efficient and reliable way to secure that win.
This is like saying that knocking-out your opponent in MMA is bad sportsmanship. It's the most efficient way to win the match. They don't care if the opponent only gets to fight one round. They won the match, so it doesn't matter.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, it's just the way it is right now. People play competitive games to win, and DBD is a competitive game apparently. The end.
people in dbd community simply don't realize that not everybody wants to flex skill difficulty between them and average survivor player in dbd thanks to poor MMR system.
People see V1, KnightLight or other top 0.1% players handicapping themselves as much as possible by doing no slugging/camping/tunneling on weak killers and they act like "you see? They can win without that and they consistently win" and expect other average killer players to follow their example, but never want to try something the other way round. Those players also have very high escape rate in soloQ and very high 4-men out rate as SWFs against average pub killers. But shhhhh, i have full right to play however i want, while you are the one that should follow community-made rules.
Classic "me using meta = ok; opponent using meta = bad" because opponent trying to play most efficiently to win will always be viewed as a bad sportsmanship by this community.
I really can't imagine that BHVR wants people to be able to play in a way that removes all the fun from their opponent's experience. It's likely they just don't have a way to deal with tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k, and bully squads without removing a necessary way to deal with something some people on the opposing side will do.
For example, because bully squads exist, killers need to be able to slug aggressively and potentially engage in tunneling, camping, etc. Without certain tactics, killers could be bullied without a way to turn the tables on such players, which would make playing killer a very bad experience. Likewise, I think BHVR feels a need to keep flashlight/flashbang/stun saves, because removing them would take away a major game mechanic that isn't inherently toxic.
I would imagine that BHVR would limit all those things in the survivor and killer side if they could, but that they find that removing one of those will leave them unable to preserve balance in some situations. But then that leaves it in the players' hands to ensure that all players can enjoy their games.
Really though, no online game is meant to be a competitive sport except inside of certain gaming leagues. Pretending that DbD or any other video game should be treated in the same way as MMA or professional football (American or the other kind) is a dramatic misrepresentation of why people play the game. We're all playing to have fun, and just like with any activity we do with other people, we should be considering whether the people we share that activity with are able to enjoy their time as well. The only real exception to that should be things like professional sports, but online gaming isn't that outside of pro- or competitive- leagues or tournaments.
I get really surprised when I hear people playing games for fun with other people and then hear them say "It's not on me to make sure you have fun." It's always our responsibility to make sure the people we share activities with can enjoy them with us.
The fact you don't understand the comparison is all I need to know about your viewpoint on the matter and how you haven't even attempted to see it from the killers standpoint.
People tunnel because it's the most efficient way to play the game. What are the reasons to NOT tunnel? There are none, LITERALLY no incentive for the killer to not do it from a gameplay standpoint. The only reason is to make the survivors game more enjoyable.
Likewise, if there are 3 generators remaining, 2 are at 0 progress and 1 is at 80% it is the most efficient way to play to do the one at 80%. What reward does the survivor get for ignoring the generator that is almost finished to go do the 2 that are completely 0'd? None, so why would they do it?
When you have 4 survivors to kill and 1-2 are 2nd stage and the other 2-3 are 1st hook or 0 hook, why would you not kill the person 2nd stage to cut the efficiency down by 25%?
You're calling killers "baby killers" for playing the game efficiency and complaining that they are tunnelling when that's literally the most lucrative option they have. Do you want to know how to stop this situation? Reward the killer for going for the other players. Give them an incentive to do it, "oh I could get this person dead early and cut the efficiency by 25%, or I could get a fresh hook at get a free basekit pain resonance if I chase this person I've not hooked yet".
The fact killers need to run perks in order to be rewarded for not tunnelling and those perks DELETE THEMSELVES is the very reason everyone is doing it alongside the fact gen regression has been curb stomped into irrelevancy so you can't keep the match going on for long enough to not do it even if you wanted to anymore vs decent survivors. All nerfing these playstyles does is make killers play even sweatier with sweatier killers and at the rate this game is going there will be no other option for killers than to play Nurse 24/7 to have a chance to win consistently just like it was back in the day.