Forcing Yourself to Camp and Tunnel to Avoid DH
I think the most ridiculous take I've seen since this new round of update notes is basically that:
"The devs are encouraging camping because of the DH nerf".
This is simply "I can't tunnel easily anymore" disguised as "I'm forced to camp now".
Obviously, there is a time and place for both camping and tunneling, but I hate seeing people isolate themselves into 2 playstyles. BHVR is attempting to encourage going for the survivor who is unhooking by making it harder to tunnel.
Instead of going "I need to camp because I can't tunnel", think "I now should go after the unhooker", and you've aligned with what BHVR is trying to do.
Only giving yourself 2 ways to play is different that being FORCED to have 2 ways to play.
I'll never understand why people complain like this, as the alternative (where DH is given to the unhooker) is "I'm forced to tunnel to avoid DH".
This current DH is a better change because it encourages killers to not tunnel. I'm gonna go balls to the wall and say this is objectively better than then the last update note's incarnation of DH.
Comments
The thing is that the new Dead Hard won't discourage tunneling; a good anti-tunneling perk would be strong if the Killer tunnels but meaningless if they don't, the new Dead Hard will be meaningless if the Killer tunnels but strong if they don't.
'Strong' is a bit of an overstatement, but yes, it will be at its strongest, marginal as that is, if the killer doesn't tunnel.
Same issue with OTR, which is why the shift from DS to OTR is so baffling.
Dead Hard doesn't do anything if you are in deep wounds and upon getting unhooked you have endurance for 10 seconds. If you were to get hit before those 10 seconds are up, you get deep wounded and now Dead Hard doesn't do anything.
Personally, I think trying to design Dead Hard to be an anti-tunnel perk is a mistake., It was never used as an anti-tunnel perk and you still keep Dead Hard if you aren't tunneled. OTR is just a better dead hard with the current design of anti-tunnel as it's reliable, but only protects you against being tunneled.
Nobody is forced to camp or tunnel they choose to do it.
The idea that any player is “forced” to camp or tunnel is laughable. Anyone who plays like that was always going to play like that and no amount of perk changes, buffs or nerfs is going to change that. It doesn’t matter how many ways BHVR tries to give them different options for play styles, the common refrain I hear from killers is that tunneling and camping is “easy and efficient” so it’s gonna be the go-to playstyle. Because it’s not about having an actual challenge in this game, it’s about easy wins and 4K every match.
The only thing that will slow down tunneling and camping is by it being punished from the devs themselves and not this ridiculous “we want the survivors to punish it” BS that they throw out, which is basically just a way of saying they’re too lazy to do anything about it and/or that they don’t actually want to do anything about it. Personally I think this is because the devs who play killer camp and tunnel and they’re certainly not going to punish their own preferred playstyle within their own playerbase.
But that logically makes sense. If the survivors took a while to get the hook and you only need to camp for one minute to get a hook stage, it makes sense to do it since it's one less chase and one less Dead Hard usage. Therefore, this new Dead Hard encourages camping to some extent.
I agree with your take, but I don't think that DH really adds much to that because killers do that now, and rightfully so.
If I have a survivor on first hook, and I happen to be around them with 10-20 seconds left till 2nd stage, hell yeah I'm gonna camp for a sec.
I think the new DH adds very little to that playstyle or sentiment as there is huge value from ensuring another hook stage regardless.
Well yeah, I don't think that Dead Hard is the main cause of that sentiment, since it is Off the Record. Dead Hard can still be avoided depending on the situation, but with Off the Record you have to take the hit.
Honestly I think they should make it so if you heal DH and OTR deactivate. I know that basically makes them the same perk but they're so close now anyways.
Or there should be a timer for one of them. OTR has a timer rn so maybe DH should deactivate when healed? Idk I don't wanna make them the same perk.
Personally I think this is because the devs who play killer camp and tunnel and they’re certainly not going to punish their own preferred playstyle within their own playerbase.
I can't believe we're bordering on conspiracy theories now.
If you use ds with dh it will be much stronger combo if killer tunnels you can waste about 2 minutes of killer time potentially meaning your team can do 3 gens freely. That is much more powerful than dh alone. Meaning tunneling will be high risk/reward for killer.
Nah nope, Otr can't be countered but killer can easily bait out dh and only change for dh should be survivor not be able to drop pallets few secs if he uses it when killer bait it out succesfully but currently survivor can still get him stunned with the pallet before killer can swing.
Yeah that's just ridiculous
People who say they are forced to tunnel and / or camp are befuddling to me.
As much as "you can accept to lose some games and then have a decent winrate at an mmr where you can play with any other strat you prefer" is befuddling to them, probably.
But how is that different from the game right now?
Because dead hard is still hard countered by camping, and then specifically hitting the survivor right off the hook, and then you only have to deal with 1 chase. The problem still is dead hard literally creates a situation where survivors get a 3rd health state at high level play, this is obviously too much and not balanced for this game in general. Because it is BY FAR the most powerful perk survivors have available to them (and still will be) i MUST play to counter it, if i want to win.
I already tunnel people who have dead hard off the hook, but the point is they call out specifically that the changes encouraged you to go after the unhooked person instead of the unhooker. When the reality is the changes they made, still encourage you to tunnel the unhooked guy and basically nothing has changed other than, you only have to deal with dead hard twice on the same person.
But everyone knows that all it takes is one, literally a single well-timed dead hard can cost you the entire game. Because meanwhile, you just lost 3 gens while that person now has an extra health state that will take their BARE MINIMUM (hold w, no pallets, no windows, no nothing) 55 second chase down and hook into a 70-80 second, chase, down and hook. Guaranteed to lose 3 gens to the other 3 survivors doing gens.
The OG DH nerf proved beyond all shadow of a doubt that any killer that wants to camp and tunnel will do so because its an easy playstyle for them.
For months it was a case of 'I have to camp and tunnel because 2/3 survivors have Dead Hard. If they nerfed it, I wouldnt need to' and the nerf hit and there were killers literally taking the line of 'lol I lied, I'm still gonna do it anyway cause it was easy and now it's even easier'.
They're never going to get rid of it without radically overhauling how the game works and they're not going to do that. So I don't see much point in them building updates round it personally.
Dead Hard has always been easy to wait out. If a survivor is able to use dead hard even after I wait it out, then good on them. I can respect that as killer. I would say a survivor gets a successful dead hard from me as a killer about 30-40 percent of the time. However me using DH as survivor I get it about 10 percent of the time 😭 I never understood the reason for another nerf with it. Current live version is fine IMO and anyone who camps or tunnels because of it are just low skilled killers being toxic.
I think the mindset of "needing to camp and tunnel" comes from the fact that it's the easiest and most streamlined way to beat an average solo queue team. Players feel like they have to do that because they can't manage a game at a macro level against decent players yet and they aren't in a place mechanically where they can reliably start and win X number of fresh chases. It creates a false feedback loop where they think it's the only way to win, when in reality it's a symptom of a skill deficit when it's the only way someone can win. Yes, sometimes you do have to camp or tunnel. But other times you have to split your pressure. And those players are often lost when they have to split their pressure and rely on their game sense.
I'm speaking in broad generalities of course. Some players will still play that way after thousands of hours simply because they like to. Like I often say, the killer in that 300-1000 hour range doesn't know what they don't know. They just know that playing this one way increases their odds of winning in a broad sense unless they get survivors well above their skill range. And they're going to be matched up against anyone and everyone in all likelihood.
Some people tunnel because its fun, survivors ragequit against my tryhard blight in seconds.
Spreading hooks is boring af, cant wait to play a 30 min game of 12 hooking all the noob survivors to give them a chance.
It doesn't make tunneling worse, but more like it punishes not tunneling by giving them third health state.
Funny BHVR still can't understand how their game works.
I'm pretty sure you shouldn't go after the unhooker, that will potentially make survivors with third health state which is pretty problematic.
New DH will totally encourage tunneling because if you get tunneled you can't use it. I understand they wanted to have a more consistant activation requirement than unhooking others, but if a killer tunnels you and hits through basekit BT, you now don't have DH.
I agree DH is now going to be countered by camping, it just is because of how it works. That makes sense.
What I don't understand is why a huge portion of killers block themselves into seeing how camping and tunneling is the ONLY way to play as if they are forced to do it.
Then at worst, nothing changes from how killers seem to want to play now. Tunneling isn't encouraged more because of the DH change because killers will still tunnel anyways.
Ironically, even without this DH rework live, they have literal tunnel vision. They think they MUST tunnel as if they are forced to.
Well... if you don't try to counter the strongest perk in this game, you are basically equivalent of throwing the game.
Yeah it's not like killers can't play for walking simulator or screaming simulator, that doesn't mean it's a proper way to play a PvP game.
People play for win, and in that case this is pretty much only way to play as.
Yeah it's not like tunneling is encouraged more, it's just NOT tunneling is discouraged more.
You'll get punished by playing fair, a good design.
You're right, and this NEEDS to change. Sadly, for people who like to tunnel and camp, there would need to be some MASSIVE changes done to make tunneling and camping in certain situations detrimental while also promoting other ways of playing.
People repeatedly says "spread the pressure" but we really should understand the fact there is no better "pressure" than chasing survivors and hooking them, which is exactly what tunneling achieves.
I mean they should be making changes to discourage tunneling if they ever want it to be reduced. Many killers tunnel because it's simply stronger than not tunneling. Making perk changes that keep tunneling as strong as it is and outright punishing killers more for not tunneling isn't the answer.
For sure. They'd have to make drastic changes, and they should focus on discouraging tunneling while also making not tunneling legit better in a huge sense.
They can't just oppress killers and stop there. They need to reinforce other playstyles as well.
Honestly they can literally oppress killers like madmen for a patch or two, without actual numbers and statistics dropping in fair games they wouldn't ever understand what issue they have.
Just remove tunneling/camping by extreme means, without quick and decisive action it will never change.
Good for you