With the introduction of a heal over time perk, should insta heal add-ons be made into HoTs as well?
I don't feel insta heals fit the games current state. Something like a 12sec self heal would still be strong.
I don't feel insta heals fit the games current state. Something like a 12sec self heal would still be strong.
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Its ultra-rare. Its supposed to be over-top and op. The same as ebony mori, prayers beads (which is not even ultra-rare), iridescent head, judith tombstone ....
We already have passive healing perks with the next chapter.
Moris should be toned down too, Irihead is mainly a problem with Infantry Belt and should be adjusted as such, and Judith's Tombstone is not even a good add-on.
Heal over time
Insta-heal is the real problem only within swf groups anyway. I dont think the game should be balanced according to swf gameplay. If it was balanced for swf, then there should be mic "on" option for any survivor.
Yeah and with this you wouldn’t have to use a perk to get a similar effect. That’s the point of this thread.
Well then the point is absurd, because it wouldnt be a reworking one add-on, but actually deleting insta-heal and creating one new add-on instead of it that wouldnt bring literally anything new to a gameplay anyway since there are already perks with the same effect.
Disagree. You don't need to be in an SWF to be near a Survivor when they go down to heal them. You also don't need to be in an SWF to bust out the Styptic Agent/Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe at a loop and turn it into pre-nerf Mettle of Man without having to be hit three times by basic attacks first.
One insta-heal in the game wont change the game. Ultra-rare insta-down add-ons stay in the game the whole match.
The insta-heal bit is actually false. One insta-heal can cause a Killer to lose a substantial amount of momentum by making them lose all the time they spent in a chase. If it wasn't false, MoM would not have been nerfed because by that logic, one free heath state wouldn't change the game.
Also, of the Ultra Rare insta-down add-ons, the only one that is potentially problematic is Irihead, mainly because of being able to use another add-on to give you more than one hatchet.
Well to be honest, I don’t mind it changing if it gets reworked either. The introduction of healing over time would just be a nice feature for it because it would still be very strong.
MoM is a perk. Perk can be used in all matches once you get it. MoM can be potentionally used more than once in one match. The comparison to once-usable hard-to-get ultra-rare add-ons is completely false.
Yes they are.
An instant heal wouldn't be an instant heal if it wasn't..... you know.... instant.
Also as long as Ebony Moris exist, insta-heals should not be touched or even considered for a nerf. Get rid of the Ebonies and then we can talk
Pre-nerf MoM cannot be used more than once in a match. You are now saying inaccurate information.
In an individual match, Agent/Syringe is stronger than pre-nerf MoM.
So following that logic, mories are fine too. Hard to get offering and is lost after one game.
I mean. My whole point is: Maybe lets delete all ultra-rare add-ons since most of them give a survivor/killer overpowered over-the-top ability that when is not countered by bringing similar op thing can mean the match cant be win for the other side.
Im fine with them as long as they keep insta-heals. You want to get rid of them, then get rid of unfair killer´s items/add-ons/offerings as well.
As it should be. MoM is a perk, syringe is once-usable u-r add-on. Ofc it should be stronger.
So if the weaker one-time health state got nerfed, logically, the stronger one should as well. The fact that it is an add-on instead of an item should not change that.
They should all be reworked or removed. Keys, mories, instadowns and heals. No one enjoys getting robbed a down because of an instaheal and no one enjoys getting robbed a kill or 2 because of a key. No one enjoys getting insta downed or getting moried. It leads to toxic and unfair gameplay and involved no skill at all.
NO. IT SHOULD CHANGE THAT. Imagine if ebony mori was integrated to one perk. That would be the most OP thing ever. The difference is very important.
I'm for it. The non-cypress Moris should be nerfed IMO.
Then I would agree. But I hate the fact this thread (with its title and op) is so one-sided and doesnt really deal with the bigger problem.
I have enough Ebony Moris saved up on my main that if I were to start using them all at once, I may as well have a fifth perk that is just an Ebony Mori. So to me, there is little difference between an OP add-on/offering and an OP perk.
Not every topic about balancing insta-heals needs to also be about balancing Moris and vice versa.
Killers crying about unfair survivors´ features is lot more common though.
But we are talking about normal players here. You and the similar ones like you add like 5 % of the playerbase.
So?
Who are you to decide what a "normal" player does? All the Moris I have on my main are from being forced to take them in the Bloodweb for one reason or another, not from actively hoarding them.
That's the how. The end result is supposed to be that it's equivalent to all 4 survivors running the inverse effect.
So in order for Haunted grounds to be equivalent to an instant heal you would need to get 4 instant downs with it on average.
For the chainsaw the standards are different due to it being a power.
The iridescent hatchet addon is another one of those things that needs to be nerfed so pointing out that it's stronger is comparing one OP thing to another.
You can still get the effect, it just isn't guaranteed.
Much like how looping the Killer for 60 seconds will completely negate haunted grounds.
Even if you ignore the fact that you are playing against mid rank survivors. It still took nearly your entire Kit in the trapper game to be equivalent to just instant heals. Meaning they still are getting an advantage on you by also having 4 perks in addition to having an item worth almost as much as 3 of yours.
And if your being smart, even. HoT can be used in a chase. The only difference is that it's not an oh ######### button but rather a strategical move used in advance.
Heck we could even give it the BNP treatment and not have it consume the entire medkit, instead just consume the charges needed to finish the heal.
@TAG you do realize that an overwhelming majority of players play in the green, yellow, purple ranks right? By balancing only to red ranks in a casual game you kill the player population. Not smart. I personally stay out of red ranks because both the killers and survivors are cry babies at that level of play. Too much salt.
@NuclearBurrito ignoring the fact that you are counting rank 6 gameplay as "mid rank" you still don't get the concept of balance. Fact of the matter is, I've played plenty of red rank matches and even 4 man MoM squads with instant heals still end in 3-4k matches. If instant heals are burning you so bad, you should try to use more of your tools.
Tell that to all the multiplayer games out there that balance for high-level play but still have casual player bases.
Who the hell cares about the medkit anyways dude? Like if you're bringing an Insta heal ya know it's gone before the game starts so who cares?..... the closest thing to not requiring any work is haunted grounds and that's a trap for the survivors so they need to fall for it...everything else the killer needs to work for.... need to get either multiple hooks and a distance away from the hook, or a hook and further away from the hook.... along with prettymuch throwing the game when having NOED... survivors simply need to equip it to their load out before the match starts...
Agreed, but for people that don't run moris. Instant heals hurt you so ######### bad even more so as mouse 1. vice versa as well :/
Many are competitive games, or seek to be. DbD is not a competitive game, as in it is not a tournament game nor will it ever be in that genre. It is a casual party game. Alienate the casual crowd and it is a dead in the water game. Thus why they constantly avoid balancing from the red ranks down. How many times has peanits mentioned casual players and casual swf groups and how they would be unfairly punished if balancing was focused on red rank swf groups?
Like it or not, instant heals are not imbalanced when you take instant downs and even moris into consideration.
Yes
I mean everyone knows that the only problem with nurse is Omega and Multi, but the devs just confirmed CHANGES to Nurse not which changes exactly. Moris are straightout trash for killer and survivor so...yes they'll get a change too.
"Many are competitive games, or seek to be. DbD is not a competitive game, as in it is not a tournament game nor will it ever be in that genre. It is a casual party game. Alienate the casual crowd and it is a dead in the water game."
A game does not have to be a tournament game to be balanced for higher-skilled players while still being enjoyable for lesser-skilled players. Many games that are not tournament games strive for that balance.
What do you base your claim of "DBD dies if it focuses it balance on higher ranks" on? How often has a game's player base died because it decided to balance around high-skill players?
Moris can be nerfed as well, since they are also imbalanced. Insta-downs are fine outside of one or two exceptions.
Insta heals are definitely a problem but the game has a few things that are considered op and should rightfully be nerfed. For example:
Insta heals should be like original bnp, you get a 3 successive skillchecks and if you hit them, you get healed. So you can't use it mid chase and it would still counter sloppy butcher
Mori's should be active after second hook so we don't lose the cool animations and it still gives the killer a slight advantage of not walking to a hook.
Huntress irredisant hatchets...add text say that it can not go over 1 hatchet. I think this add-on is balanced if it is just 1 hatchet.
Keys need to be nerfed but I dont know how.
I think if we address these issues than the game will be more fun in the long run.
The Hatch auto-closes after someone uses a Key and jumps in, and thus the EGC starts. ;) Could probably lower the rarity of the key a fair bit if you do that.
My claim it would die is based on the fact that survival rate is already low at the most populated ranks of the game, casuals. Taking away more tools, and add in all the other crying about keys and gen timers that high level wants "balanced" and those ranks will completely fall off. Who is going to want to play at those ranks when you are nothing more than a pinata for a deprived 13 year gold's smurf account? Population drops, not enough survivors and the game dwindles.
It is why the devs are not taking these drastic moves. It would be foolish. I've played plenty at the red ranks. Instant heals can be frustrating, but getting 3 to 4k in those matches is still attainable with enough skill. It is not the dire issue these threads make them out to be.
LOL Are you really trying to save MoM is better than an insta-heal.
Please tell me when is the last time you've seen ANYONE in any rank use MoM? I'll wait but I won't hold my breath. That perk got nerfed into the ground. I'd bring Dark Sense into a match before I ran MoM
Who said that things would only be re-balanced on the Survivor side? Some things can and should be nerfed on the Killer side too. The point is that the game should be balanced for both sides.
The argument is not that 3k/4k is not attainable with insta-heals. It is possible to beat someone using something OP, especially if that someone isn't particularly good anyways. The argument is that insta-heals simply offer too much of an advantage to Survivors.
Smurfs work both ways and in my very limited experience, given that it's on PS4, there are more Survivors running 4 "meta" perks at ranks 10-20 than Killers running "meta" perks. Which is bad because it doesn't lead to killer retention which is just as relevant as Survivor Retention.
Haha. What killer nerfs are going to be slightly accepted from red rank killers. That is the whiniest group of players I've ever seen. SWF is too powerful, nerf it. Keys, hatch (still complaining), heals, gens, healing, not healing, totems, loops, pallets, etc. There is a new whine each week. Heck, each week when the shrine comes out we should just add the killer whine in too.
I get it, I've played the toxic little Jackball survivor groups in the reds too. But, I can also see the big picture. It is about tweaks, not full blown nerfs. I can honestly say that the red rank killers are just as salty as the red rank survivors. It's why I stay out of those ranks now.
That's why I suggested the instant heals be tweaked (earlier posts), not done away with. Much harder to abuse them, and they are more balanced that way.
If Survivors gotta suck it up and take their nerfs, Killers gotta suck it up as well. Balance OP Killer stuff, including Moris. Balance OP Survivor stuff, including the insta-heal add-ons.
I don't disagree with you at all. The point I was making is if we balance all the things killers want, the killers may be better set to deal with the smurf survivor, but survivors will be completely hosed in the reverse.
I'm arguing against the constant want for removal of things like keys and instant heals. I suggest tweaks to make instant heals not so easily abused, but still powerful items. I'm also against removal of instant downs. I know many whiney survivors would love that. I don't think it is going to help balance anything if you removed it.
You know it won't happen that way.
Look, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm more into the concept of tweaking things slightly in order to keep from going too far. Being creative with the tweaks to not only move towards balance, but create fun and creative gameplay. I think it calls for a surgeon's scalpel, not a butcher's cleaver.