Toxic SWF's are having their last ditch effort?

Laakeri

I only play killer during mid day hours in work days to avoid the toxicity the SWF brings. Yet yesterday and today every single game has been 3 or 4 man SWF with 1x OoO and everyone using DS and insta meds.

######### is going on?

Tucking_Friggered

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

BAHAHAHA You actually believe that?

I sure do. Self Care changed, Sloppy Butcher changed, pallet adjustments, DS is going poof. I can understand it feels good to deny you are being slapped in the face when you can't change it but that loud echo, the sting, and red mark are objective reality.

Dwight_Fairfield

@Tucking_Friggered said:
Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

I don't know what you're talking about. I can count on one hand the times I've had trouble getting lobbies.

Tucking_Friggered

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:
Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

I don't know what you're talking about. I can count on one hand the times I've had trouble getting lobbies.

Yep. Your 4 man SWF just plays all night long unhindered.

Dwight_Fairfield

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:
Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

I don't know what you're talking about. I can count on one hand the times I've had trouble getting lobbies.

Yep. Your 4 man SWF just plays all night long unhindered.

You don't believe me? Oh no. That breaks my heart because what you think is just so important to me.

Tucking_Friggered

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:
Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

I don't know what you're talking about. I can count on one hand the times I've had trouble getting lobbies.

Yep. Your 4 man SWF just plays all night long unhindered.

You don't believe me? Oh no. That breaks my heart because what you think is just so important to me.

No I don't. It's just more "nothing is gonna get me down" rhetoric as you take these hard slaps survivors are taking. You guys deserve it though. The herd of belligerent undesirables need a good thinning.
If things were all good in the hood you'd not be here salty about the DS change.

;}

fcc2014

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

BAHAHAHA You actually believe that?

I sure do. Self Care changed, Sloppy Butcher changed, pallet adjustments, DS is going poof. I can understand it feels good to deny you are being slapped in the face when you can't change it but that loud echo, the sting, and red mark are objective reality.

All the DS change is Boost Survivors who didn't need to run DS to escape. Now they can equip it or not and if you tunnel as a killer YOU need to make a choice. The only way you will succeed in this game with your attitude is if 3 start on the hook and 1 slugged down starting the trial. They can continue to make killer Easier but survivors will always adapt. You are also the one asking for people to stop posting about Nerfing your Precious NOED. Don't worry NOOB they will keep it for players just like you.

MhhBurgers

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Laakeri said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Laakeri said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@MhhBurgers said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@MhhBurgers said:
It's cool for you but "competitive" DBDplayers are a joke in the gaming world and you know that full well.

You cannot be competitive if your game doesn't even feature a competitive mode. (Yeah it's called ranked with ranks but since it's the only mode available the point is moot)

Your rank isn't a competition. You don't get anything for your rank. No achievements, no bloodpoints......nothing. Competitive players in any game are usually a joke because they act like you are. They take it too seriously.

But you're also insulting players simply for using strong load outs which are perfectly legit and within the bounds of the game. The only reason you're doing this is because its a survivor based topic and you are clearly killer biased. I've yet to see you chastise in a killer based topic for doing the same thing.

I've spoken against ######### like Ivory Moris and Hatchet instadown belts, thing is there's currently not much broken in a killer's loadout. In my opinion perks should be perks, not basically new skills. Most perks that killers use are very situational at best, the only thing I can consider cheese is the enduring, SF and bamboobzle combo that takes away any mindgame.

If you'd put a killer without perks vs 4 survivors without perks the powerdifference would shrink by alot.

What are you talking about? Perks should be perks and not new skills? So should perks like overcharge and pop goes the weasel should be removed because they allow killers to do things to gens they cannot usually do? BBQ and chili, spies from the shadows, rancor, discordance, surveillance, enduring, knock out, franklins demise, NOED.....I could go on forever. They all give killers abilities or "skills" that they don't usually have.

As for the situational argument, so are most survivor ones. They only get to use most of them in certain situations. Killers have perks that can be used against them or make them tougher to use. For example self care can be made more difficult with nurses calling, sloppy butcher, coulrophobia etc. Even the hated DS is situational, a one off use, not even a guarantee you can hit it, and can be countered.

Even the Devs have acknowledged that the current DS has no counters, hence why its getting changed. Nice one tho.

Yeah they have "acknowledged" this after two and a half years of leaving it the way it is. Clearly this was an urgent issue to them. The only reason this is getting changed is to appease the killer complaints. Nothing more. If there's an onslaught of survivor complaints about the new DS when it comes out, how long before it gets another rework do you think.

Of course there is counters to DS. Dribble to the hook. Or use enduring. They are tried and true counters that can and do work. Overwhelming presence is a good one, too. Makes the skill check so small its almost impossible to hit it.

I think you are confusing the words "counter" and "mitigation". Things you described are mitigations, not counters.

Of course they're counters. Or are you seriously trying to tell me these methods have never made DS useless? Lol I mean the devs even had to list reporting killers for dribbling as not being a bannable offense in the rules as so many DS users were being denied it because of it.

Dribbling is not a counter to DS, if there'd be a perk that would give you 20 seconds of time before the killer can hang you up you'd probably consider taking it. Because dribbling takes a long as time and is not guaranteed either and can be easily countered by taking a hit.

MhhBurgers

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

BAHAHAHA You actually believe that?

I sure do. Self Care changed, Sloppy Butcher changed, pallet adjustments, DS is going poof. I can understand it feels good to deny you are being slapped in the face when you can't change it but that loud echo, the sting, and red mark are objective reality.

All the DS change is Boost Survivors who didn't need to run DS to escape. Now they can equip it or not and if you tunnel as a killer YOU need to make a choice. The only way you will succeed in this game with your attitude is if 3 start on the hook and 1 slugged down starting the trial. They can continue to make killer Easier but survivors will always adapt. You are also the one asking for people to stop posting about Nerfing your Precious NOED. Don't worry NOOB they will keep it for players just like you.

as a survivor you literally have all cards in your hands, there's not much intricacy to playing survivor, calling killers easy when THEY have to rely on YOU messing up to win is gold.

Tucking_Friggered

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@fcc2014 said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:

Deal with it chap. That's what happens when you create a bully simulator and have your queues tank because no one wants to play killer regularly. Don't worry as more changes will come additionally until you absolutely struggle to survive a match.
;}

BAHAHAHA You actually believe that?

I sure do. Self Care changed, Sloppy Butcher changed, pallet adjustments, DS is going poof. I can understand it feels good to deny you are being slapped in the face when you can't change it but that loud echo, the sting, and red mark are objective reality.

All the DS change is Boost Survivors who didn't need to run DS to escape. Now they can equip it or not and if you tunnel as a killer YOU need to make a choice. The only way you will succeed in this game with your attitude is if 3 start on the hook and 1 slugged down starting the trial. They can continue to make killer Easier but survivors will always adapt. You are also the one asking for people to stop posting about Nerfing your Precious NOED. Don't worry NOOB they will keep it for players just like you.

I don't ask anyone to stop posting about nerfing NOED. The arguments brought are easily refuted to the point it's a sport to do so and the devs just giggle as well. You equipping DS means I get my BBQC stack regardless, I can camp you out of the game if I desire, I can mori you if I choose to tunnel, and with Enduring you are looking at less than a 2 second stun. More importantly it means there won't be any prolonged early game chases which means more pressure all around. Spread'em wide, survivor.

;}

Dwight_Fairfield

@Tucking_Friggered said:
No I don't. It's just more "nothing is gonna get me down" rhetoric as you take these hard slaps survivors are taking. You guys deserve it though. The herd of belligerent undesirables need a good thinning.
If things were all good in the hood you'd not be here salty about the DS change.

;}

Wow its like you can see into my soul. Especially since I am not even a DS user. Never have been. This change doesn't affect me at all.

Need a tissue to wipe that egg off your face?

Tucking_Friggered

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@Tucking_Friggered said:
No I don't. It's just more "nothing is gonna get me down" rhetoric as you take these hard slaps survivors are taking. You guys deserve it though. The herd of belligerent undesirables need a good thinning.
If things were all good in the hood you'd not be here salty about the DS change.

;}

Wow its like you can see into my soul. Especially since I am not even a DS user. Never have been. This change doesn't affect me at all.

Need a tissue to wipe that egg off your face?

That's nice dear. I too take interest in topics for perks I never use with extra salt in my responses.

;}

Dwight_Fairfield

@MhhBurgers said:

That's nice dear. I too take interest in topics for perks I never use with extra salt in my responses.

;}

I take an interest in Dbd as a whole. I don't have to use certain perks or characters to have an opinion on them, especially when you know exactly how they work. Not to mention I have encountered DS many times as killer.

But keep digging that hole....dear.

DexyIV

Well we have PTB next week, with the patch probably coming ~2 weeks later. They only have 3 weeks to enjoy DS in its current uncounterable state. That's what I'd assume. Needless to say I haven't touched the game for a few weeks and I'll play the hell out of the PTB since DS won't be as broken anymore.

Laakeri

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@MhhBurgers said:

That's nice dear. I too take interest in topics for perks I never use with extra salt in my responses.

;}

I take an interest in Dbd as a whole. I don't have to use certain perks or characters to have an opinion on them, especially when you know exactly how they work. Not to mention I have encountered DS many times as killer.

But keep digging that hole....dear.

This is exactly why people dont take you seriously. You say you know exactly how DS work yet keep claiming that it has counters.

Make up your mind.

fcc2014

@MhhBurgers @Tucking_Friggered awww did i trigger the killer mains. Did the big bad survivors beat you up and steal your lunch money again. Run home to BHVR and maybe they will start survivors on the hook and give you a participation award too!

MhhBurgers

@fcc2014 said:
@MhhBurgers @Tucking_Friggered awww did i trigger the killer mains. Did the big bad survivors beat you up and steal your lunch money again. Run home to BHVR and maybe they will start survivors on the hook and give you a participation award too!

A Participation award? you mean like the hatch? Or third person perspective on the guy being chased? Or up to 3 additional second chances in each match by perks alone?

fcc2014

funny how so many killers play this game and can wreck lobbies while others still struggle. I guess that is what happens in multiplayer online games.

Hatch core mechanic put in to keep frustrated players with garbage teammates to keep playing.

First person and third person perspective cameras at launch

3 additional second chance perks agree somewhat. DS in its original form was second chance, BT and the new DS punish Campers and Tunnelers. Deliverance if you are counting that was for solo players that get stranded by their teammates but needs conditions to activate.

brokedownpalace

@MhhBurgers "you mean like the hatch? Or third person perspective on the guy being chased?"

What a joke. You have no idea how to balance a game. Survivor would be unplayable in first person how this game is designed. And the hatch is there so people don't DC immediately when it's down to 2 survivors (and for solo players to have a shot with ######### teammates). Use your brain.

MhhBurgers

@fcc2014 said:
funny how so many killers play this game and can wreck lobbies while others still struggle. I guess that is what happens in multiplayer online games.

Hatch core mechanic put in to keep frustrated players with garbage teammates to keep playing.

First person and third person perspective cameras at launch

3 additional second chance perks agree somewhat. DS in its original form was second chance, BT and the new DS punish Campers and Tunnelers. Deliverance if you are counting that was for solo players that get stranded by their teammates but needs conditions to activate.

BT and DS are still second chance perks, campers are punished by the genrush already. BT is activated in lategame too when there's no other objective for the killer to go after so it's not about punishing campers it's still a major crutch and the only perks that killers get that are comparable to survivor perks are: Enduring+SF combo (2 slots), Bamboozle and RUIN if it doesn't get cleansed right away.

If you put killers without perks the difference is marginal, often times 2 or 3 of your perks won't do jackshit. Most survivor meta-perks work in every situation, which is why they're meta.

The only meta that killers have is BBQ which right now I'll admit is mainly used to get us more BP and I'm not gonna be THAT Killer and claim more BP isn't a gameplay advantage since effectively BBQ gives us more and better addons and offerings.

NoShinyPony

@fcc2014 said:
I think it will become a solo player must have. How many times have we seen people ask for a way to block someone from doing an unsafe unhook or to fix tunneling? Rename the game to Slugged until Daylight.

It will be interesting to see how many survivors are going to run the new DS and how often killers will slug to prevent a potential DS. There are different opinions in the community right now and I really want to see which side will be right.

Tzeentchling9

Dwight_Fairfield said:

twistedmonkey said:

I still fail to see why using things in game which are allowed is classed as toxic, if it's within the rules is just using the loadouts or strats they deem the strongest nothing more.

Toxicity can only happen in the end game chat, anything else is just playing the game and having fun, it may be at someone else's expense but thats life.

Unfortunately both sides fall foul to this, you just have to read these forums to see each side uses strats the other screams is not fair, it's a strange gaming community mentality where if someone plays to win using what they are allowed too they are considered toxic.

Common sense and logic. A rare sight around here.

If you blatantly ignored outside cheats with voice coms, sure, what he said about using perks and strats the game provides is true.

fcc2014

@NoShinyPony said:

It will be interesting to see how many survivors are going to run the new DS and how often killers will slug to prevent a potential DS. There are different opinions in the community right now and I really want to see which side will be right.

I'm not a fan of slugging but it really may need to be something that killers need to do.

i could see the survivor meta being Adrenaline, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike and to be honest playing both sides these will seem boring to me.

Carpemortum

MPGamer18 said:

BHVR is doing everything they can to balance the game. Yet they ignore the one facet of this game that no amount of perk balancing can correct ... SWF. It needs to be it's own mode. Separate it into Duo's and Quads and be done with it.

And alienate half of the playerbase that simply goes swf to play with friends, and not to tryhard? Yeah I'll pass.

Carpemortum

MhhBurgers said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@MhhBurgers said:
If we'd talk about any competitive game like league sure, this is a game that you'll play during your break or when you have nothing else to do.

Speak for yourself. I don't play this game because I have "nothing else to do". I play it because I enjoy it. Simple as that.

It's cool for you but "competitive" DBDplayers are a joke in the gaming world and you know that full well.

You cannot be competitive if your game doesn't even feature a competitive mode. (Yeah it's called ranked with ranks but since it's the only mode available the point is moot)

I cant believe it's with you, but I agree. It's called rank to help split players to MORE ACURATE games, not perfect mmr. If it didnt exist we would have rank 1 killers on rank 20 survivors all the time (which is apparently happening atm anyway). 

Your "rank" does not indicate that the game is a RANKED GAME MODE. And nobody understands that.

Dwight_Fairfield

Laakeri said:

@Dwight_Fairfield said:

@MhhBurgers said:

That's nice dear. I too take interest in topics for perks I never use with extra salt in my responses.

;}

I take an interest in Dbd as a whole. I don't have to use certain perks or characters to have an opinion on them, especially when you know exactly how they work. Not to mention I have encountered DS many times as killer.

But keep digging that hole....dear.

This is exactly why people dont take you seriously. You say you know exactly how DS work yet keep claiming that it has counters.

Make up your mind.

I didn't know you spoke for people in general and how they percieve me. I wonder how my posts here have accumulated so many likes. Must be a bunch of sock accounts I made to make myself look good 😂

I know how DS works that is how I know it has counters. Not complicated to understand. No contradiction here.

fcc2014

@Dwight_Fairfield are you seriously referring to forum stats?

Dwight_Fairfield

fcc2014 said:

@Dwight_Fairfield are you seriously referring to forum stats?

You're right. I should take the hearsay word of one person I never spoke to until today. Much more reliable.

The_Bogeyman

@Tzeentchling9 said:
If you blatantly ignored outside cheats with voice coms, sure, what he said about using perks and strats the game provides is true.

What foolishness is this. How are voice coms a cheat when its a sanctioned part of the game's swf. Get the hell outta here with that cheats crap.

The_Bogeyman

@Carpemortum said:
And alienate half of the playerbase that simply goes swf to play with friends, and not to tryhard? Yeah I'll pass.

Yup. They ain't gonna shift it. Too popular and too awesome.

fcc2014

@Dwight_Fairfield said:
fcc2014 said:

@Dwight_Fairfield are you seriously referring to forum stats?

You're right. I should take the hearsay word of one person I never spoke to until today. Much more reliable.

Just ignore them

powerbats

@MPGamer18 said:
BHVR is doing everything they can to balance the game. Yet they ignore the one facet of this game that no amount of perk balancing can correct ... SWF. It needs to be it's own mode. Separate it into Duo's and Quads and be done with it.

Yes destroy your game and then get n lobbies as since last data point was 34.% of lobbies were strictly solo players and the rest were some combination of swf usually duo's. The 4 man swf was under 9% yes that's under 9% so the imaginary non stop 4 man swat teams is just that imaginary.

If most of the playerbase is swf and you only queue up for solo guess what your lobby wait times are going to be insane because there isn't enough solo survivors.

The solo's will get stuck with probably longer wait time or just a bunch of jerks so they'll either stop playing or go swf also.

Now here's where logic just simply bites you in the arse, there's nothing stopping people from queueing as solo and simply inviting someone to voice.

In fact it already happens in solo lobbies and on console it's super easy to do and apparently happens all the time.

Tzeentchling9

The_Bogeyman said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:
If you blatantly ignored outside cheats with voice coms, sure, what he said about using perks and strats the game provides is true.

What foolishness is this. How are voice coms a cheat when its a sanctioned part of the game's swf. Get the hell outta here with that cheats crap.

Ah, please tell me where I can find the keybind for Push To Talk in the DBD Control Options, I can't seem to find it.

powerbats

@Tzeentchling9 said:
The_Bogeyman said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:

If you blatantly ignored outside cheats with voice coms, sure, what he said about using perks and strats the game provides is true.

What foolishness is this. How are voice coms a cheat when its a sanctioned part of the game's swf. Get the hell outta here with that cheats crap.

Ah, please tell me where I can find the keybind for Push To Talk in the DBD Control Options, I can't seem to find it.

Ah yes the classic Straw Man when you can't refute troll your way out of a debate.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest

MhhBurgers

@powerbats said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:
The_Bogeyman said:

@Tzeentchling9 said:

If you blatantly ignored outside cheats with voice coms, sure, what he said about using perks and strats the game provides is true.

What foolishness is this. How are voice coms a cheat when its a sanctioned part of the game's swf. Get the hell outta here with that cheats crap.

Ah, please tell me where I can find the keybind for Push To Talk in the DBD Control Options, I can't seem to find it.

Ah yes the classic Straw Man when you can't refute troll your way out of a debate.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system#latest

If the new Battlefield in 2025 sells you an aimbot for 25€ that only headshots you'd also not consider that a cheat by this logic. A cheat is an unfair advantage that other players do not have, end of discussion. It doesn't matter if it's sanctioned by devs.

The_Bogeyman

@Tzeentchling9 said:

Ah, please tell me where I can find the keybind for Push To Talk in the DBD Control Options, I can't seem to find it.

Tell ya what, Sherlock, we'll help each other out here. You show me where in the game rules it say voice coms is forbidden and then I'll show ya where you can push talk. Sound peachy?

ItsYourBoyGuzma

laKUKA said:

Because the game is a trash for solo survirvor.

Its not though , I've been playing solo since launch and I can assure you its the teammates who run around after being unhooked/dont heal up/ dont do genes are the problem 

knell

@powerbats said:
Yes destroy your game and then get n lobbies as since last data point was 34.% of lobbies were strictly solo players and the rest were some combination of swf usually duo's.

If most of the playerbase is swf and you only queue up for solo guess what your lobby wait times are going to be insane because there isn't enough solo survivors.

Where are you getting that most of the playerbase is SWF?

Didn't the same exact stream where you got your '30% of the lobbies being strictly solo players' inform us that 47.2% of the players entered a lobby through SWF while 49.3% entered through Solo? That's about half and half. Or are you making the assumption that us solo players prefer being stuck with SWF also?

According to the same stream where you got your statistics, why would the solo be stuck with a longer wait time?

@powerbats said:
The solo's will get stuck with probably longer wait time or just a bunch of jerks so they'll either stop playing or go swf also.

Are you saying that you don't enjoy playing Dead by Daylight as a solo? Personally I enjoy playing as it was meant to be played. Sure, I don't win often, and sometimes I have awful survivors that I have to try and cooperate with, but isn't that the fun part of Dead by Daylight? That unpredictability? That fear of the unknown? Not knowing who you can trust in a life and death situation? What part of playing survivor do you have fun in?

@powerbats said:
Now here's where logic just simply bites you in the arse, there's nothing stopping people from queueing as solo and simply inviting someone to voice.

In fact it already happens in solo lobbies and on console it's super easy to do and apparently happens all the time.

If they made an appropriate solo mode, they would individualize the lobby so that killers will not be able to see the survivors and survivors will not be able to see the killer/other survivors. The only information they have will be that they are placed in a lobby, and nothing else. Once they are loaded onto a map, the survivors can be designated with a letter or number. How will they invite people then?

NoxiousOnnyyxx

Laakeri said:

I only play killer during mid day hours in work days to avoid the toxicity the SWF brings. Yet yesterday and today every single game has been 3 or 4 man SWF with 1x OoO and everyone using DS and insta meds.

######### is going on?

They are playing the game as intended....

laKUKA

BHVR is blind? do not see the post of swf, are you so blind and do not see the simple difference between a swf and a single? I do not understand. What do they say about it?

Laakeri

@NoxiousOnnyyxx said:
Laakeri said:

I only play killer during mid day hours in work days to avoid the toxicity the SWF brings. Yet yesterday and today every single game has been 3 or 4 man SWF with 1x OoO and everyone using DS and insta meds.

######### is going on?

They are playing the game as intended....

Yeah, I started running Insta saw Billy and Spirit with Anal Beads while topping it off with Moris. Just as the game was intended.

Not sure why random well mannered survivors that I came across were salty in post game lobby for me using addons and offerings that game lets me.

NoxiousOnnyyxx

@Laakeri said:

@NoxiousOnnyyxx said:
Laakeri said:

I only play killer during mid day hours in work days to avoid the toxicity the SWF brings. Yet yesterday and today every single game has been 3 or 4 man SWF with 1x OoO and everyone using DS and insta meds.

######### is going on?

They are playing the game as intended....

Yeah, I started running Insta saw Billy and Spirit with Anal Beads while topping it off with Moris. Just as the game was intended.

Not sure why random well mannered survivors that I came across were salty in post game lobby for me using addons and offerings that game lets me.

People are just mad when killers and survivors play the game as intended when it comes to perks and addons.

MhhBurgers

@NoxiousOnnyyxx said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/339953#Comment_339953

People are just mad when killers and survivors play the game as intended when it comes to perks and addons.

Because that "intended" playstyle breaks about 70% of the killer roster and ppl don't want to just learn billy nurse and spirit to be able to have fun.