Developer Update | August 2025
The 9.2.0 Update arrives next week, so let’s check out the notable gameplay changes you can expect from this Public Test Build. Plus, stay tuned for next week's PTB Patch Notes where we’ll share the precise values that are changing for each of the topics below!
Read on for all the details:
NEW FEATURES
- If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 90 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering.
- Added the option to enable or disable this mechanic in Custom Games.
- Note: Perks that enable you to recover from the Dying State - like Boon: Exponential - will continue to function as before, without needing to meet this requirement.
- Gradually increases crawling speed for Survivors who are left in the Dying State.
- Added the ability for Survivors to recover while crawling. Recovery now occurs passively with no need to hold a button.
- Updated several Survivor and Killer perks to account for these changes.
Passive recovery while crawling
Pick yourself up if you’ve been in the Dying State for 90 seconds
DEV NOTE: When it comes to slugging, we know it can be frustrating if you're on the receiving end of it too often or for too long, but we also know that sometimes it's the smart move. This updated system acknowledges this, allowing the Killer to slug occasionally when they feel like it's the right call, but will eventually kick in and swing in the Survivor's favour if slugging is used excessively.
A big part of this is also about making the experience of being slugged more pleasant (as much as being slugged can be, at least). The recovery changes and crawling speed will give you a bit more agency when downed so you aren't just holding a button and waiting for someone to come save you.
- When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
- This is disabled once all generators are completed.
- Unhooked Survivors gain the following effects for a limited time:
- Haste, Endurance, and Elusive (see below) status effects.
- No collision with other players (both Killer and Survivor).
- Immunity to Killer Instinct and sees the Killer’s aura nearby.
- These effects are lost when the affected Survivor perform a Conspicuous Action.
- All these effects (except Haste and Endurance) are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added a unique effect to the Killer hook state UI that indicates the last Survivor they hooked.
- After completing a “unique hook” (the same Survivor is not hooked consecutively), Killers get the following benefits:
- Bonus damage for the next generator kick.
- Temporary Haste status effect.
- Temporarily reveals Survivors (think basekit BBQ & Chili) that have less or equal hook states to the hooked Survivor.
- These effects are slightly lessened for The Blight, The Dark Lord, The Ghoul, The Hillbilly, and The Nurse.
- These effects are disabled once all generators are completed.
- Added new effects that disincentivize tunneling:
- If a Survivor dies before 6 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial.
- If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
- Added the option to enable or disable these new mechanics in Custom Games.
- Updated several Survivor and Killer perks to account for these changes.
DEV NOTE: It’s no secret that tunneling can be seen as an efficient way to play for Killers. While this can be true, it’s also true that the results of this can be frustrating for Survivors, leading to Trials ending too quickly for some, while leaving others to fend for themselves in a match that is now much more difficult.
The intention here is for both roles to feel the benefits and incentives that come from spreading hook states. On the one end, Survivors have better opportunities to evade and reset after unhooks, while also limiting those tough situations where losing a Survivor too quickly causes things to go south quickly and snowball. On the other end, Killers are able to apply more map pressure to push back against efficient teams, covering ground post-hook and strengthening gen regression.
- Added a new status effect that silences grunts of pain and suppresses Survivor aura, pools of blood, and scratch marks.
DEV NOTE: To start, we’ll be using this new status effect as part of the tunnelling reduction update, but plan to integrate this into relevant existing perks down the road to make their descriptions more streamlined. Arguably the easiest way to look at this is a Survivor version of Undetectable, in that when it’s active, you know you’re in stealth mode.
- Updated “The Tomes” menu to feature new Tomes and accompanying lore alongside each Chapter release.
- New lore is unlocked each week within the active Tome.
DEV NOTE: Ever since we reworked the Tome, we’ve seen how much you’ve yearned for more lore. We’re happy to share that beginning with 9.2.0, lore is back! While previously, lore was tied to challenges, we want all players to have a chance to immerse themselves in these stories, so we’ve shifted to a weekly unlock, not linked to any quest completion.
KILLER UPDATES
- Replaced “Evil Within” with two modes that can be toggled with a button press:
- Stalker Mode: 4.2m/s movement speed, Undetectable, and can stalk Survivors.
- Pursuer Mode: 4.6m/s movement speed, 24m Terror Radius, increased vault speed, bonuses to lunge range, break speed, and stun recovery, and cannot stalk Survivors.
- Once the stalk meter is full, Evil Incarnate mode can be triggered at will, granting the following effects for a limited time (note: Survivors no longer become Exposed):
- 4.6m/s movement speed, 40m Terror Radius and an increased vault speed.
- Unlocks Slaughtering Strike ability:
- Hold the power button to charge this ability, reducing movement speed.
- Press the attack button while charging to quickly lunge forward, adjusting your angle as you move. The length of the lunge depends on charge time.
- If a Survivor enters the Killer’s attack range while lunging, they are knocked into the Dying State.
- This ability can also be used to destroy pallets.
- Unlocks the ability to grab and kill or perform a regular Mori on Survivors who would die the next time they are hooked.
- Adjusted some of the mechanics of stalking:
- Removed the limited pool of stalk points per Survivor.
- Reduced stalk range to 32m and removed distance modifier.
- Moving while stalking has increased movement speed but incurs a reduced stalk rate.
- Reworked his add-ons.
Slaughtering Strike in action
DEV NOTE: By moving away from linear “Evil Within” tiers, we wanted to give players more tools they can use to adapt to each Trial’s unique situations, while keeping the core of what makes him “The Shape”.
Slaughtering Strike makes for a high-threat offensive attack, offering up an insta-down opportunity with an extended lunge that's particularly effective in loops and for ripping through pallets quickly.
Understanding his kit has changed quite a lot, we’ve done a pass on nearly all his add-ons, reworking many of them to offer more unique effects. In particular for those who prefer his old playstyle, Fragrant Tuft of Hair will change Evil Incarnate to function like old Myers, offering an Exposed effect and no Slaughtering Strike. Stay tuned for patch notes for the full details on these changes!
- Increased activation time of the Afterpiece Antidote.
- Increased how long the Afterpiece Tonic’s Hindered effect lingers after leaving smoke.
DEV NOTE: We’ve heard your feedback that The Clown’s easier-to-activate Haste can make instigating and maintaining chases less interactive for Survivors. That, coupled with nerfs to his purple bottles has pushed players towards this frustrating tactic. To make both bottles feel like viable options without being too oppressive, we’ve adjusted the values of their most impactful qualities to strike a balance between pre-9.1.0 values and Live values.
- Increased the additional time added to Weakened when injured by a UVX projectile.
- Increased movement speed recovery after teleporting.
- Increased camera vertical range.
- Adjusted several add-ons.
Increased vertical camera range in action
DEV NOTE: The Unknown is largely considered to be fun to play as and against, and we want to preserve that while adapting to the current state of gameplay. We’ve buffed the UVX slightly, while also taking what we learned from The Animatronic to allow for orbitals, improving UVX aiming and making for even more fun gameplay.
It’s also likely no surprise that Blurry Photo is the most used add-on for the Unknown, given the importance of speed recovery. To help create an opportunity for more add-on experimentation, we’ve converted a portion of this add-on into a basekit buff, while also doing a pass on other add-ons that are due for some adjustments.
- Vampire Form:
- Slightly reduced Hellfire cooldown.
- Increased total Hellfire pillars by 1.
- Reduced Hellfire charge movement speed.
- Slightly increased slowdown time after casting Hellfire.
- Wolf Form:
- Increased Pounce Attack charge time.
- Increased Scent Orb spawn time.
- Bat Form:
- Increased movement friction to make flying easier to control.
- Adjusted his add-ons.
DEV NOTE: Vampire Form is slightly less oppressive in short loops where movement slowdown had less of an impact, and toning down Wolf Form’s mobility, which has been outclassing some dash Killers. On the flip side, you’ll find Bat Form easier to control in tighter spaces and can use Hellfire slightly more frequently and reach further with it.
- When grabbing a Survivor on the other side of a vault with Kagune Leap, the Survivor is released at the start of The Ghoul’s vault instead of at the end.
DEV NOTE: It’s no secret that it’s been a common pain point for Survivors to be locked in place when hit with a Kagune Leap Grab-Attack across a vault. Survivors shouldn’t have to wait for The Ghoul to finish their vault before being able to move again, so we’ve removed this tech.
- Hooking a Survivor now spawns more blood orbs.
DEV NOTE: We understand that with the changes we’re making to address slugging, this will impact The Oni slightly, so we want to mitigate this. By turning hooked Survivors into a greater source of power gauge build-up, The Oni is rewarded with more quickly snowballing power by hooking.
- Updated various perks.
DEV NOTE: In addition to the general perk balance updates you can expect each release, we've also made a number of adjustments to account for the new systems coming to DbD this update, specifically relating to slugging and tunneling.
Stay tuned on Wednesday, September 3 for the PTB Live Balance preview on Discord, where we'll dig into the details of these perk changes, and then follow that up with patch notes, where you can find the nitty-gritty numbers.
Until next time...
The Dead by Daylight Team
Comments
So you don’t want survivors to get…..anything?
Then they're not on gens. As someone who plays Dredge and uses Darkness Revealed when I play ranged killers that reload from lockers I can say from my experience that there aren't that many lockers on maps and if there are then survivors aren't spending that much time near them. If you disagree - see how it plays out on the PTB. I would be shocked if survivors were consistently and successfully locker dodging the aura read. It would have to be their #1 priority above gens and they're not getting gens done very quickly if that's the case.
Numbers might be part of what they're wanting to test on the PTB. Why should they release numbers before the testing even starts? It's not like the doomposting is actually going to be affected by numbers.
Killers are getting haste for free, Pop for free, and BBQ for free and still they're complaining. Literally none of the downsides of these new mechanics come into effect if a killer just doesn't tunnel - all they get are buffs. The complaint of "They're not getting strong enough buffs." is a little premature.
Actually, the concepts it's self would not. Let's test it out first then see.
Probably at 99% then. As survivor we've been hit with other injured nearby because they ran with us and neither of us could split.
There are flaws in some of the updates yes but that's what testing is for. Also granted the devs don't have a good track record with it but we'll see what happens. Besides it's better to not have any of that as a whole than throwing it in and leaving it.
........ maybe because people aren't doing the usual but to GET the crows now? As far as we can tell it's only mildly more picky than before that update. We haven't seen any during the update except in a kuf...whom said survivor WAS actually trying to just hide. You not seeing crowsis not indictive of much...especially if your claiming "high MMR" and wouldn't have ppl that would be AFK or doing things that trigger it. If you really wanna try for double standards you need a better target.….
Basekit corrupt would be interesting...although some though was bugging my mind. How about a basekit pain res integrated in the antitunnel instead of a pop. That way all killers can access it and make the most of it. It does not need the gen to explode and take off the survivor, just have the progress go back like 15-20% of the progress made, not the total progress.
6 stages is wild, clearly 4 should be the go-to here. Because then it's guaranteed you did not tunnel to do the deed. It wouldn't feel like killers are being punished for doing their job efficiently, instead punishing the tunnelling for the 1st kill.
My official stats have a 68% escape rate, but the official stats are still inflated because BHVR never fixed all the bugs.
My actual stats have a 51% escape rate (34 escapes with 66 games = 51%). This is all solo q too.
If you want to tell me this isn't good enough for high MMR, then I would really be interested in what escape rates you think I would need for the minimum cutoff.
BBQ, when expected, can be played around. The point of it is survivors being caught offguard. Now they will always be on guard because they know you see them. And it's a fact. Once a survivor team, especially a swf, deduces BBQ is in the trial, they play around it. And the aura reading is easily avoided. And not only by being in lockers, but also behind generators to conceal their auras. So they do not need to leave a gen to hide the aura.
Haste for free with a killer like Sadako is useless. But for a nurse or a blight does make a little bit of a difference. Depends once more on the numbers, but if it ends up being like devour haste...it will be nothing. To use de pop you actually need to arrive before the gen is done, and for killers with less movility (all that ain't blight, ghoul, nurse) that is going to be very difficult if there is a large distance.
And also, based on your last comment, you seem to be turning this into a "us vs them". Refrain from it. I am only exposing facts, not complaining. Yes, killers get those things not for free, because to earn them you gotta play a certain way and hook in a certain order, and even then, these things have the potential to be of little to no use based on how efficient survivors are countering them with strategy and coordination.
meant to get in on this discussion sooner but honestly even if all of this has been said a million times it's worth reiterating so the devs have as many data points on feedback as possible:
I run BBQ on most of my killers - it is extraordinarily rare that I don't get at least 1 aura for each hook, typically due to range. You can usually see survivor auras around generators - it doesn't completely conceal them most of the time. The likelihood that they'll either have the perfect angle on a gen to hide behind or be in range of a locker to slowly enter is just not that high across most hookings for the vast majority of matches. For those that run BBQ, now you have a free perk slot.
They're explicitly turning the bonus haste down on highly mobile killers. I doubt they would bother introducing this new tuning method for something as weak as 5%. Aside from that, calling any haste useless is a bit of an exaggeration. Sadako does hold w from time to time.
Yes, Pop might not be useful in every situation - that doesn't make it worthless. The reason it has a high pick rate as a perk is that it's generally useful. For those that do run it - now you have a free perk slot to run whatever you want.
The whole point of these new mechanics is to reduce the efficiency of tunneling so yes, the idea is to change player behavior. It would be kind of pointless if it wasn't. It does it in a way that is harmless and offers benefits to anyone that doesn't tunnel.
Actually i would rather prefer basekit pain resonance than pop now that you mentioned it.
It fits more to these changes than pop..
We will see!
They do have problems with those that are objective-focused, and are also decent in chases ;)
You know what I mean
Perhaps make it pop for nurse, ghoul, dracula and blight. But for the rest, pain res would be better. They showed they are willing to give these killers a special treatment and pop wouldn't be much for them.
I actually really appreciate the passion and how well this was composed!
I have to throw my weight behind you in mentioning bloodpoint incentives.
Giving MASSIVE bonus bloodpoints for spreading hooks and severely punishing repeated hooks would absolutely change gameplay, in my honest opinion.
Hooking a survivor for the first time: 400bp
Hooking a different survivor than the last one unhooked: 200bp
Hooking the last survivor unhooked: 100bp
Sacrifice after 6 hook states: 200bp bonus
No survivors sacrificed at 8 hook states: 8,000bp bonus.
Maybe give Killers a permanent Haste/break/vault/lunge buff if they get to the coveted 8 hooks no sacrifice everyone DOH state. Call it "Entity Elated" or something. It would be a much more seamless, positive, and worthwhile condition to the game.
If that's too much, you could always do something very sneaky and simple for the "Entity Elated" reward like - making vaults be blocked by the entity after 2 uses instead of 3 and removing the Great Skill Check zones from all survivors. Something small that rewards Killers for keeping everyone alive to the end but doesn't frustrate Survivor players too much.
Idk, I'm rambling at this point - but honestly, giving players lots more bloodpoints for playing properly and very little for playing scummy would have an effect on players. Honestly it would be a much more sensible first step than using an orbital strike to nuke regression if a survivor perishes too quickly.
well now we got a new question of why your posting escape rate when we're talking about what would be efficient for the killer.
There's some good in here and there's certainly some real bad in here but I'd like to ask at this point since hook states are going to be stupid important now is can killer please have a hook count per survivor? Sometimes it certainly hard to remember exactly which identical Meg I need to hook to avoid the steep consequences.
It looks like they will have a HUD element that will make it obvious which one of the identical Megs to avoid :)
Yeah totally Survivor-siding, and people always says "Killers are always buffed" this further proves that notion to be WRONG.
This is why I stopped playing…the Michael rework should have been a thing as well.
No, it'll say which one you last hooked. I would like to know the total number of hooks for all the survivors.
Because what we really care about, is whether or not weaponizing anti-tunnel mechanics is a powerful strategy for survivors.
What we really care about, is whether or not it's a powerful strategy for survivors to aggressively bodyblock if they have active anti-tunnel mechanics like DS.
I've been playing this game since it was first released, and while I didn't uninstall it when they changed the DS specs, I've mostly retired and have been missing it lately, so I've been back for a while. I was astonished to see this note. If these updates are implemented after PTB, my friends and I have been talking about uninstalling it completely and going there since BF6 will be coming out soon.
This is despite the fact that at least 70%~80% of players, both famous distributors and unknown individuals around the world, have been skeptical and critical of the update on Youtube and X since it was announced in the last few days.
Those comment sections are full of comments that are cynical about this terrible update, and those kinds of comments are quite well received.
Surprisingly, even the main Survivor players, who usually say the F-word to the killer with flashlight in hand, are complaining.
BHVR employees, don't you think this is quite extraordinary?
Actually it was how survivors could actually weaponize anti-tunnel perks such as DS without the killer's input and a scenario with two questions. You:
Us:
Which, if we're being nit picky you haven't actually answered.
You are absolutely right I dont.use perks.really usefully to trickster ( I don't play tricky much at all anymore. Normally.if I play.trickster I'm playing a pimp and.just want to play.with my survivors. ) it actually isn't a skill issue. You have dead zones, and some killers who litterally manage to down you that quickly even,with pallets and vaults. And obviously I don't mean litterally.20 secs but the point still stands. However if.you get out played just own it. There is no reason to resort to unfun/unfair strats to win.
I would like to add. I have trained against swifs before ever going into live lobbies. In customs spending two hours trolling my fiance as a survivor to learn how to counter these kinda techs both as killer and survivor.
But let's just talk about the new survivors coming into the game. No. Being tunneled out 20 secs into the game isn't a skill issue. It's their new. And shouldn't be instantly discpuraged from playing.
Also all of us played to play the game. Not enter the match and be tunneled right back out.
Alternate universe Patch 9.2 PTB notes:
Survivors are now blocked from repairing the current generator once they have accumulated 25% progress on generators.
They must accumulate 25% repair progress on different generators before that generator becomes unblocked.
Actually it would be something like:
If survivors finish a gen before they get 50% on four different gens, the killer will receive a 20% kick buff.
As compensation for this, anytime the survivors get a unique gen to 25%, for 30 seconds they receive 5% haste and 10% gen speed, they also see the killer's aura for 3 seconds.
You're really asking if aggressively bodyblocking with an anti-tunnel mechanic is a powerful survivor strategy, because the killer can choose to continue chasing the unhooker.
You're really asking if weaponizing DS is a powerful survivor strategy, because the killer can choose to not pick up the survivor.
And in both cases, I'm saying, "YES", it is a powerful survivor strategy, because the survivor team can still be at a net gain, even if they do your "counterplay", which isn't really counterplay. The number of survivors that are NOT repairing isn't as important as the number of survivors that ARE repairing. In both your scenarios, there are up to 2 survivors repairing generators, while the killer is being delayed from progressing their objective.
As in, the number of survivors not repairing generators is flawed logic. What we should be caring about is if the survivor team or killer team is progressing their objective faster. And yes, this can be complicated if alternate kill scenarios are involved, like devour hope or a Myers tombstone addon, but most games aren't revolving around alternate kill scenarios.
You know the changes are bs because they are disabled for custom matches..... They know how much this would screw with comp DBD.
To be fair, comp DBD is its own thing that typically enforces its own set of custom rules anyway. I see these changes being something you can disable in custom matches as more of a nod towards their need to alter the game rules for the sake of their competition anyway, personally.
Incorrect. It's literally 1. How is two survivors doing bumkiss the killer losing out? 2. What is forcing the killer to pick up an obvious bait (or to be more generous a potential DS)?
As we see it, survivors "trying to weaponize" anti-tunnel has the following for the killer: Two survivors not on gens, one likely the dirt requiring either another survivor, specific perks that usually work once, or being on the dirt for a gen's worth of time (potentially with the last one). Depending on how and where the chases go, you could have the following scenarios: 2 down ready to be hooked (1 potentially having DS), 2 down with you scaring another survivor off a gen and the 4 trying to pick up the first slug, 1 survivor down with the first up being healed and the 4th had gotten off the gen because the chase got close, etc. There's a myriad of scenarios. Yes some will leave the killer worse off, but some (and in our opinion most) leave the killer better off.
The thing is, if your delaying the other teams efficiency, you as killer have more time to progress your objective. Meaning you have more time to do whatever you need to. You should see that as when survivors delay the killer, they get more time on gens, this aspect of the game goes both ways. As a side note, if they don't "weaponize anti-tunnel, then it's more likely 3 survivors are on gens... which likely makes gens go more vroom like we often see people whine about.
The two survivors are delaying the killer from progressing hooks, which means delaying the killer from progressing their objective.
By your logic, pallet saves, flashlight saves, flashbang saves, and hook sabotages are ALWAYS a terrible strategy for survivors, because it requires a 2nd survivor that could be repairing generators instead.
Both survivors get to run away after a successful save. One may be in chase, but the other gets to go off and do generators.
If a survivor lets themselves get downed while bodyblocking, neither get away. One's on the ground, and the other is still in chase. It's a net negative, and it's why bodyblocking is more commonly done just to end up injured or in Deep Wound so it actually works out in the survivor's favour.
A Better Alternative to the Anti-Tunnel Update
This upcoming update is, frankly, a terrible idea that risks killing the game if released as-is. But instead of just complaining about how bad it is, I’ve created a better alternative that solves the same issue without mercilessly shafting killers.
Instead of punishing “unfair” gameplay, this system rewards fair gameplay, encouraging killers to spread hooks while also giving them meaningful tools to deal with the current generator-rushing meta.
Hook Variety Reward System (working title)
Each time the killer hooks a different survivor (not the one most recently hooked), they gain a stack.
Stacks cap at 3.
If the killer hooks the same survivor twice in a row, stacks reset back to 1.
Rewards scale with stacks:
Stack 1: 20% Pop-like gen regression on next kick, 5% Haste until next attack, 50% faster generator breaking.
Stack 2: Stronger bonuses.
Stack 3: 30% Pop regression, 10% Haste until attack, 100% faster gen breaking (double speed).
Why this works better than the proposed penalty system
Positive reinforcement: It feels good to spread hooks because you’re rewarded with real power, instead of feeling punished for not playing “the right way.”
Strategic tension: Killers must choose between tunneling to secure one survivor, or spreading pressure to build powerful bonuses.
Scales across killers: Mid-tier killers gain meaningful boosts (map traversal, gen slowdown), which helps them compete with survivors’ efficiency without forcing everyone into Nurse/Blight.
Fair for survivors: Survivors don’t feel like killers are forced into tunneling, since killers are rewarded for playing “fair” rather than penalized for playing “unfair.”
This way, both sides benefit: survivors get fewer tunneled-out games, and killers feel empowered rather than neutered. It tackles the same design goal, but in a way that encourages fun and variety instead of resentment and frustration.
But you can't argue that, and still argue that the number of survivors on generators is the most important thing survivors can do.
This whole "survivors can't weaponize anti-tunnel" argument revolves around the belief that the number of survivors repairing is the most important thing. It's the only way the "DS can't be weaponized because it's less survivors repairing generators" argument can work.
Sure I can.
Though, for the record, I wouldn't ever argue that survivors can't weaponise anti tunnel in general. A few of the tools they have available can be weaponised, Endurance in particular. It's DS that can't be weaponised because the survivors get minimal returns for considerable downsides if the killer just leaves the person trying to do so on the ground.
Imagine a regular chase after an unhook. Survivor A comes to rescue survivor B, killer chases survivor A, survivor B goes and resets + is back on gens pretty quickly. Three survivors on gens after a brief delay.
Imagine a chase where a survivor uses Endurance to bodyblock. Survivor A comes to rescue survivor B, killer chases survivor A, but survivor B comes and takes a hit with their Endurance before running away. Again, a brief delay, slightly longer this time, but three survivors on gens.
Now imagine a chase where a survivor either doesn't have Endurance to bodyblock with or keeps chasing the killer to get in position for another bodyblock while in Deep Wounds. Survivor A comes to rescue survivor B, killer chases survivor A, survivor B keeps following the killer until they have to hit them, killer continues to chase survivor A. There are two survivors on generators, and only remains two on generators if survivor B has some way of picking themselves up- otherwise it's one survivor on generators.
The context matters. If a survivor is following the killer's chase to try and get in the way and ends up on the ground, they've wasted time. If they can bodyblock quickly without doing that, it works out in their favour. There's some hazy middle ground for following the killer but taking a hit and running away again, but those are the extreme ends.
I refuse to imagine any scenario you give, that revolves around "more survivors repairing = better for survivors". That completely disregards the fact that delaying the killer from hooking a survivor is sometimes more important than having more survivors repairing.
Yes, I agree.
That's why I'm trying to explain that the third scenario involves the survivors not delaying the killer more than they're delaying themselves. They give their teammate a protection hit, but they're left on the ground for however long. It doesn't work out because what THEY'RE giving up is worse than what they're taking from the killer.
The second scenario, which both delays the killer and DOESN'T delay them by as much, is to their benefit. The third scenario is not, because the killer is benefiting from the objective delay more than the survivors are.
Do you honestly think DS would be as popular as it is now, if "leave the survivor on the ground" really was a valid counterplay that was in the killer's favor?
How exactly does that work? All the people using DS believe they are taking a huge gamble, because if the killer just leaves them on the ground, the killer won that exchange? And the only reason why DS is useful is because most killers "don't understand" that they should always slug a survivor if they've recently been unhooked?
I mean, I would assume most people running DS want to use it defensively, or they're otherwise just hoping to bait the killer into a stun and accept the risk it might not work.
Not everyone running it thinks that running at the killer and getting slugged is a good use of their time, somewhat obviously. That's not even the intended use of the perk, and people hate tunnelling- it's not at all unreasonable to think they want to use it as anti-tunnel.
But according to you, using the perk defensively would also be a huge gamble, because according to you, if the killer left the survivor on the ground, then the killer won that exchange. So why aren't there a lot of survivors complaining about this on the forums? Where are all the survivors complaining that their DS perk is "useless" if the killer leaves them on the ground?
If you're using the perk defensively, the killer went out of their way to chase you.
If you're using the perk offensively, you're going out of your way to chase the killer.
One of those wastes the killer's time. One of those wastes the survivor's time.
It's the whole thing I'm saying that matters here, man. It's not just the killer leaving the survivor on the ground, it's the killer leaving the survivor on the ground after the survivor went out of their way to follow the killer and the killer's already chasing someone else as well.
Those three variables make up the scenario people usually talk about, and if you change one of those three variables, the outcome also changes.
Changes read good. People obviosuly complain, because they played 0 games with those changes but think they know how impactful they are.
But I also know that BHVR will either scrap everything except for the Killer Benefits (because they think that incentives are enough) or water it down so much after the PTB or 1 week on Live that you barely notice anything.
So no high hopes here, but a bit of entertainment because of all this panic.
Tunneling a survivor out of the game is absolutely worth the risk of eating a DS, especially when most survivors don't equip the perk.
You're basically saying a killer should avoid tunneling a survivor, and spread hooks instead, because they might eat a stun for a few seconds. How on earth does that make sense? Tunneling a survivor is absolutely worth a potential DS stun.
What?
We're assuming this is your answer for number 1 then? Thing is, that becomes risk vs reward. Jesterkind kinda pointed out scenarios and we've already said theres a myriad of them. Many of those scenarios will end up becoming more delays to the survivors meaning more time to kill them.
Always? No. Many times? Yea. Though being specific, we see a lot of people go out of their way to do these things and fail instead of "moment of opportunity" times which contributes to our view of them.
also…just because this bugs us…
In our opinion? Its because its the killer's choice to follow through and going along with the anti-tunnel one. This whole survivors repairing thing thats been going on? Thats from:
We just wanna know why its apparently bad to continue chasing the unhooker in our scenario (which you partially answered) and what is forcing the killer to grab the survivor they just downed [this survivor was the unhooked one].
You keep saying the correct play for killers is to leave a survivor slugged on the ground, if they might have DS. You're basically saying that killers should completely stop tunneling a survivor, and spread hook instead, because that survivor MIGHT have an active DS.
…No.
I'm saying that if a survivor is running in front of you and trying to bodyblock and also lets you down them doing this, you should probably just leave them on the ground after downing them. It's obviously throwing to let the killer do that without DS, and you get more value out of continuing the chase you were already in anyway.
This conversation started because of weaponising anti-tunnel as an idea, remember. We're talking about survivors who try to weaponise DS via bodyblocking and we are only talking about that, because there's context to that situation that doesn't apply elsewhere.
Leaving the survivor on the ground, is actively giving up an opportunity to tunnel a survivor out of the game, and is actively choosing to spread hooks instead.
There is a major difference between the killer travelling across the map to chase a recently unhooked survivor, and the killer leaving a recently unhooked survivor on the ground when that survivor is literally next to the killer.
I mean… sure?
If you don't mind eating a DS stun because you want to tunnel someone, that's fine, but you also can't say that survivors are capable of weaponising DS because you personally choose to eat the stun after a survivor flashes a neon sign saying "I have DS pick me up now so I can stun you" by letting you down them as you're chasing their teammate.
That's your choice to take obvious bait, not actual weaponisation.
I mean honestly man I really struggle to see your conclusion here after the back and forth we've had, maybe you could summarise it?
The killer literally does not get a neon sign saying someone has DS. Just because someone aggressively bodyblocks, does not mean they have DS. For example, someone might aggressively bodyblock because they are at full health, and have an active OTR, but no DS.
And it's such a giant misplay to avoid picking someone up if they actually don't have DS, that it's better to risk the odds and pick survivors up, especially because the pick rate of DS is so low.
The neon sign is that they let themselves get downed. If they're at full health and/or have active OTR, they're not going to keep running at you until they're on the ground, they'll get injured/put in Deep Wounds then run away.
Granted, some players will occasionally do that, but it's a more reasonable tell that they have DS.
It's also not a misplay to leave them there. I can understand the opposing argument that picking them up is worth the risk, but we're comparing two good outcomes here - one being a free hook, the other being free slug pressure while you're already in another chase so you don't have any downtime.
That's why it isn't weaponising. You can just benefit from it more than the survivors do.
They often aren't two good outcomes. One involves progressing the killer's objective and getting a survivor one step closer to being tunneled out of the game, and one involves delaying the killer's objective and spreading hook states.