Lethal Pursuer is unhealthy for the game in its current state
I get that this perk was originally added during a period of DBD when gen rushing was at an all time high, killers werent overperforming, and loop adjustments were being made to balance some of the really crazy loops on certain maps. However, we are 3 years out from that period and the game is incredibly different now. Most loops have been rendered useless by overpowered anti-loop killer mechanics, gen speeds are slower than ever, healing is almost pointless unless another survivor has a med kit or it wastes too much time. Why has this perk not been reworked?
Mostly used on fast or ranged killers, it gives the killer knowledge of every survivors location at the start of a match unless they are running distortion. Distortion is a bad counter to this because killers have so many aura reading perks and add-ons now that no survivor should run distortion, ever, because it will eat up your stacks. Fast. On killers like Blight or Nurse, they are gonna get to their first survivor within seconds of the match starting. With most loops rendered useless, survivors dont even have time to start their first generator without someone being downed. Then youve got ranged killers like Huntress that can get their first down before survivors have even had a chance to look for a generator. Thats crazy.
Doesnt it also defeats the purpose of the game? The killer should be spawning in and have to find survivors on their own. Its literally part of the killer experience and just giving it to them is kinda…dumb. Id be OK with the perk as is in terms of aura reading if it came at some type of cost, but right now its just a free 100% aura read at the start of the match. With no downside. In fact, it even buffs other perks and aura-reading add ons! I think this perk deserves a second glance and its time for a rework of some type.
Comments
Well you may not be but 95% of people are STILL complaining about it. How about instead of me adapting to all my perks getting nerfed, maybe survivors should adapt to having their aura read? Just a thought.
Has the standard of players really dropped that low now?
Just take Distortion. What's your problem?
The most popular slowdown was these four one? (Corrupt, pain res, pop, and deadlock) ? I know for killer, they play a lot with four slowdown, or just pop and pain res, but in my memory, these are not the most popular
You got ruin/ undying, pain res/dead man (before pain res was nerfed for being active only four times) ,eruption meta, buggy merciless storm, …
I fail to see the issue. WoO is a perk that completely automates survivor gameplay. That is incredibly dull. You literally play by a manual.
Also, I can't voice my disagreement with one perk? Interesting. I would like the game's results to depend on who actually played better and not who brought perks that automated their gameplay to the point where they basically couldn't lose. Losing against loadouts rather than players is not a great feeling. This is also why I'm fine with most info perks. They don't do anything for the killer or survivor. They help them do things. WoO is an exception because it's not about how you use that information.
Either way, that last sentence is a pretty poor point. I am fine with most perks in this game and I certainly would like to see quite a few perks be buffed or reworked on both sides. That does not mean, that I will complain about pretty much every perk somebody uses against me. I won't rejoice (which should never be the case, as perks are meant to make the game harder for your opponent) but I can live with them.
If you couldn't tell, the part about people that complained about every category of perks was not about you specifically. I explained this because someone else, who seems to have vanished from the forums, brought it up.
Ruin, Undying and Eruption fell out of the meta a long time ago. If we were to talk about the all time most popular slowdown perks, then that would probably be Ruin + Undying (I consider both to be slowdown because Undying is just a decoy for Ruin) and Pop. But I was talking about the ones that were meta at the time. Even then, Pop was nerfed and Ruin got obliterated almost 2 years ago.
Lethal was introduced when all the killers acknowledged as problematic with it (Nurse, Blight, Billy) had already been in the game, as well as gen times being increased a while ago already. Is this actually only becoming a problem now?
To get use out of Lethal more than once per game, the killer also needs to dedicate another perk like BBQ, or an add-on slot, eg. Glowing Concoction. It has powerful effects but isn't exactly overpowered imo
Fantastic take. Take a bow that man.
It's interesting how the usual counter for calls to nerf Windows of Opportunity is "It's just an info perk"... yet that seemingly doesn't apply to Lethal?
It only works once, right at the start and otherwise needs additional perk investment to have further value... perks that can't also be gen slowdown... it's a simple equation, if the killer isn’t going to regress the hell out of gens and stall the game, they instead need to ensure they are efficiently going for survivors... and it can all be made for naught with a couple of Distortions...
Secondky, isn't the chase supposedly the "fun" part of the game that everyone loves?
It is laughable that there is a desire to weaken the park when, let's say, it is just a park that is only involved in the comfort of the game. If this keeps up, it really will be nerfed in 2025 on the grounds that shattered hope is too strong to enjoy an all-boon configuration.
I mean comparing a decent time for gens with some of the worst atrocities out their when it came to dragging games for ages is a bit unfair, is it?
How is it an issue with Legion? The killer sucks and has not really that good mobility... I don't even know if frenzy for distance is worth it...
Sounds pretty trash... Considering on indoor maps it might just not show survivors at all... And I don't know if it would work well on some outdoor maps... The perk is fine.
Why? He said there was never time we had slower gens, which is nowhere near true.
Current gen times same at best, or faster.
Yeah, survivors got +10 seconds on gens and kicking is slightly better, but all slowdown perks are lot worse compare to past and there is several gen speed perks we didn't have before.
And barely anyone runs those Gen speed perks, because most people are too bad at the game to hit hyper focus skill checks...
But it is possible.... Stake out mostly fix the issue unless you can't hit any.
And anyone can run deja Vu, which I consider to be quite a good perk.
That the skill checks go faster is hard on most players, even the good ones. I would say there are other perks that give you better value if you are not a good player when it comes to hitting greats...
Deja vu is average at best... Do the match you get like 5 seconds less duration on a gen if you do it for the full duration... It is really not that good.
You literally called out people for complaining about perks, yet you did it yourself. And everything you said about WoO can be applied to Lethal Pursuer. And now suddenly you care about skill rather than perks? Theres an easy fix for that…play perkless.
Technically yes, I did say that. But Ive since retracted and said that I meant the base gen speed. I didnt mean to include perks in that statement.
Sorry, I forgot to quote, but the response above is for you.
It's 5 seconds per gen you finish alone, but that expects killer to never regress the gen.
Ability to see closest gens is also valid in my opinion, because it simply sets your priority.
Build to last is also way better since then.
Right now it is possible to finish generator solo in 36 seconds, while killers ability to slowdown is way weaker.
So your statement literally doesn't matter, does it?
Gens in past used to be 80 seconds, and are 90 seconds now.
But you would like to ignore the perks, because it doesn't fit your narrative?
Reality is gens are same or faster.
Because since 7.5.0;
Gen slowdown/regression has been gutted. The last few good ones having been harshly nerfed this update.
Most (good) chase perks have been nerfed (STBFL, Sloppy etc.).
All sources of anti-heal were made obsolete against good Survivors (all Mangled and Hemorrhage sources on a timer, decent Survivors will slam gens until the timer runs out instead of healing quickly out of panic).
Gen kicking (and slowdown in general, including non-regression kick perks) was given a hard-limit which can be weaponized by a decent team (there's whole threads and videos about it).
Survivors are running out of things to complain about (although increased tunnelling & camping, Survivors giving up often and horrible map generation should be given more attention imo) so things that become more common are complained about. The current situation (low perk variety, increased tunnelling and camping) is a direct result of the last few month systematically weakening every other viable options without offering alternatives or incentives to not tunnel (in fact, nerfing Pain Res and Grim Embrace arguably encouraged tunnelling since less slowdown is gained) to compensate, especially for Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum.
Out of everything that's currently happening though, complaining about Lethal Pursuer and aura-reading of all things is surprising.
Yeah sure knowing which gens are close is nice, but it is still only average... How many gens are you going to do on your own during a normal match? Maybe 1 or 2?
This we straight up disagree with but since it doesn't answer the question, moving on.
This does, thank you.
Depends on your build.
With Stake out, Hyperfocus, Streetwise and Build to last all of them if needed...
Deja Vu is just easy to use, if you want to make it faster then combine it with resilience for extra 9%. You don't need to hit any skill checks for it and your chase gets better too... Of course it is not going to be that good, when it is so easy to use
Perks can be good without having requirements, there is nothing wrong with that. Not all perks can be S tier, some are completely average, but we also cannot pretend that a perk that saves you maybe 10-15 seconds a game is that superior, it is average/decent and that is OK, but nothing more.
No, I ignore the perks because gen slowdown via perks doesnt matter to me. But gens do take longer now at base rate. But my issue isnt with that. Im just saying that LP shouldnt be fine in its current state when everything else has been nerfed to make it easier for killers to win. How many handouts do killers need?
Frenzy for distance would be the issue.
Lethal is probably one of the most healthy perks in the meta at the moment. Up there with BBQ.
It's very effective, sure, but in a healthy way. I'd rather get Lethal than Corrupt, Pop or Pain Res.
Distortion works as a catch all counter to aura reading for the entire game unless it's a stealth killer or something. That's an option you could always consider.
You misunderstood my point. Someone else mentioned people that complain about pretty much every perk their opponent can bring. For those people we really do need a different game mode.
It should be obvious that everyone has their peeves with one perk or another. There is nothing wrong with that. But when it's a majority of all perks, that becomes an issue. At that poi
nt, they might want to consider playing a different game.No, it can't. Lethal Pursuer works at the start of the match and then it's gone. The secondary effect enhances other aura perks but it still doesn't allow you to play by a manual.
With WoO you see windows and pallets all the time with no further input needed. You can simply play an exciting game of "Run to yellow." and don't really need to think. With Lethal Pursuer and other aura perks that is not the case. If it were, then they'd be active permanently, which would obviously be stupid.
That has always been something I wished for. For skill to matter more than loadouts. That is partially the case but when you stack enough things in your favor it's increadibly easy to win, no matter which side you play.
As for playing perkless, what does that accomplish? My skill is not rewarded, if I lose anyway, is it? And playing perkless is pretty much a guaranteed loss.
Lethal isn't a problem if you know how to loop or counterplay the killer.
The only one who gets extremely good value is nurse, and we shouldn't kneecap everyone else because of Nurse.
How is that an issue? You are not gonna get a hit if you just use frenzy and run at them from that far away... And then you go into cooldown when you close and have to wait for it to be ready again, that would be a terrible play.
Lethal pursuer is problematic in beginning of the match with killers with mobility blight, hillbilly and nurse. They can down survivor almost before they get loaded in the game. In soloQ match is instantly lost when first down happens in under 20s. It's too strong. Survivors should have bit of time before first chase start.
The starter has points many loops are rendered unsafe to make chases shorter and expecting average soloQ survivor to loop killer long in current game is not realistic. Survivor should have bit of time in start of match not instantly get chased by blight. Match is already lost right at the start and that is not good for balance or the game.
Well, you said you ignore perks.
So let's ignore Lethal pursuer too...
You don't get to select only what is handy for you. Lethal pursuer is not handout. Only thing it does is get you into chase faster. It won't help you end the chase faster, if you have issue with that, then work on your chase...
I have never said it is best survivors can do, that is definitely hyperfocus build. You just tried to hide it behind bad survivors...
Do you think gen times are slower than during the meta I mentioned? If not, then my statement is correct.
2 things. First off, for a Hillbilly to get an immediate down, that survivor has to mess up monumentally. That means it's more a skill issue than a perk issue. Second, if it's 2-3 killers that are problematic with a perk maybe it's not the perk that is the actual problem. This could easily be fixed, if the 3 of them started with their powers on a cooldown like some other killers do.
Why? The killer already has no early game. Why should survivors be rewarded for that even more? Especially since in most situations you have a pretty good idea where survivors spawn anyway, which means Lethal Pursuer makes little difference in that regard. It is however good when you spawn in the middle of the map and can only guess. Because guessing wrong already puts you behind so much, that it's an uphill battle right from the start. All caused by RNG (the killer's spawn is dependent on RNG and the survivor spawns depend on it).
At some point, the average SoloQ survivor needs to actually be responsible and improve their skills and not be a detriment to their team. And as has been said before, if they can’t, Distortion is an option. There is no reason to immediately go down at the start of the match unless they’ve massively misplayed.
It is not hiding behind bad survivors... Look at the usage rate of hyper focus, that perk would be a huge issue if people were good enough to properly use... But they don't so we need to take perks that trash players can use, because the niche scenario of someone being good enough to use it to its max is just not what happens in the majority of matches. And when we are talking about Gen times in general a small group gets averaged out rather fast.
I mean sure the Gen kick meta was the worst when it comes to Gen times, but then again it was so bad and it still took them ages. It should not have been a thing longer than a few days... Which is why I wouldn't want to take into account such extreme unbalanced scenarios. Same for ruin undying, people in comp didn't cleanse because it wasted too much time looking for the totem, which is kind of ridiculous xD
But sure technically you are probably right on that... I don't know though, Old ruin might have the crown still... As gens could basically stay at x percent all game long if you got unlucky.
easy fix, add an initial cooldown to their abilities (nurse, blight), just how killers like dredge do. I'ts way more reasonable to add such a small change that actually fixes the issue, than to change the perk for everyone. Other than that, if you are having a problem against lethal pursuer on anyone that isn't those two, then it's really on you i'm sorry.
most of the time by the point you reach a survivor's location, their aura has already vanished, not to mention, good teams (regular decent teams, not swfs or anything special) won't be all three grouped up in one gen, they'll start spreading (and the best generators aren't necesarily those close to you at the start, you might aswell save yourself the posibility of a three gen and aim for a central one).
And it's not like lethal pursuer makes the killer undetectable….it only makes it so you don't waste 30 seconds on the wrong side of the map (at that point, if that's what you have an issue with, then let's remove killer altogether, or why even have those initial gens be a thing if we aren't allowed to interrupt you early? let's have a gen done by merely logging into the match)
They may know were you started (if you didn't bring the one perk that counters all aura reading perks at once without you doing anything, distortion).Now, they have to do something about it in the usual fashion…
Are you not looking around or paying attention to the terror radius? and if they didn't pair lethal with other aura perks, then it does absolutely nothing for the rest of the game, you now know their are a three perk killer. and aura read builds are considered weaker for a reason, distortion, in just one slot will already counter them fully unless the killer is doing something funny like stacking 3 or 4 aura read perks. just something like lethal pursuer and nowhere to hide isn't nearly enough to eat through distortion's tokens. And if they do so, then they won't have any gen regression/block, no chase tools, no hexes etc.
And you have your own tools as survivor, as mentioned, you'll hear them coming, if not see them…and in a good scenario they'll down one person, ok well, maybe hear that terror radius going straight your way and run sooner? loop better? i swear the ones that get picked up by lethal are usually those claudetted that will stick to a teammate forever without prove thyself, and see their mate running, yet they themselves will go behind a rock… it's far from a guaranteed down, they still have to chase you the usual way…And survivor players shouldn't assume they'll never get caught early, lethal pursuer or not.
Can it be frustrating? of course, but clearly this isn't the game to play if something like getting picked up early is such a dealbreaker, since the game itself is ok with it, in smaller maps you'll spawn an inch away from the killer, one whisper away from their terror radius.
Then later pop/ruin was more balanced and still way stronger than what we have now.
But there are people who are good enough. Thing is if they are good enough, it's boring for them to use it.
So if we get clearly broken perk, it is fine as long pick rate won't get above 5%. That logic seems flawed to me.
Pick rate should not be a reason for preventing/creating nerfs. Neither high or low.
I will just say this.
I love the fact Weave Attunement eat Distortion tokens. S2
In the two games I had it and there was a Distortion user I was able to see them.
No I don't think it is fine just because it does not get used, but it does not become problematic for the majority of players, which is probably why they are not changing the perk.
That's lot of text and not things I find problematic like I said blight, nurse and hillbilly maybe spririt it is. I don't expect these killers getting nerfs and it would be unfair to nerf them just because one perk is too good on them. So only option is to nerf the perk or limit is on these killers which I don't think will happen.
Without lethal finding survivors is fine they has chance to hide if they run to killer early it's their fault. Lethal is fine with slow killers but with them it might be just wasting perks slot and corrupt often is better option and decent killer will find survivor quite quickly anyway.
People clearly want to misunderstand when I say survivor need bit of time in start of match. Enough time they can move around maybe go to close gen that's about 10-15s.
I don't expect these killers getting nerfs and it would be unfair to nerf them just because one perk is too good on them. So only option is to nerf the perk or limit is on these killers which I don't think will happen.
Without lethal finding survivors is fine they has chance to hide if they run to killer early it's their fault. Lethal is fine with slow killers but with them it might be just wasting perks slot and corrupt often is better option and decent killer will find survivor quite quickly anyway.
People clearly want to misunderstand when I say survivor need bit of time in start of match. Enough time they can move around maybe go to close gen that's about 10-15s.
Sometimes it's bad luck to go down and even good players can go quickly down to S-tier killer with lethal. I agree soloQ players should improve but one thing I find is unfair pc and playstation survivors get to know before match what killer they are going to face. We don't know that on xbox.
A perk should not be nerfed because of “bad luck”.
Survivors shouldn’t be informed who the killer is at all. I’d go so far as to say that there should be no lobby either. Once 4 survivors queue up, killer gets matched and they immediately load in without seeing each other.
Yes it would be better if no-one gets information who killer is but I have no idea why only pc and ps but not xbox or switch. I say it very unfair advantage imagine knowing killer is ghostface for example before match and be prepared but xbox players will know that once they're exposed.
I don't agree with lobby thing killers would tunnel/camp more as they would expect everyone to be good. Seeing the lobby gives chance to killer prepare and he is the solo player so he should have that chance.
No, I said that I ignore the perks because theyre not relevent to me. Im OK with gen slowdown. I never said ignore perks in general. Im not OK with killers being given a handout at the start of the match and being given a huge advantage over survivors while killers are already overperforming. If youre going to be disingenuous theres really no point in responding to you anymore.
This right here is why I keep saying over and over again that distortion is a bad perk.
This is so wrong. Im sorry, but youre wrong. I was playing literally a couple of hours ago. We spawned in on clowns map. I literally took three-four steps (I run sprint burst, so I wasnt running) and the killer (Billy) downed the survivor that I spawned right next to. We were in the match for no more than just a few seconds. That survivor was supposed to do…what exactly? The second they spawn into the match run for cover against a killer they have 0 information or location on? Please enlighten me.
Lethal pursuer is not relevant for me, so your arguments are invalid.