REASONABLE NERFS TO NOED AND ADRENALINE BUT BUFFS TO BRUTAL STRENGTH AND DEJA VU.
Let's start with the scummy ones, NOED and Adrenaline. I run Adrenaline myself and I love it. I have since I was new back when it was considered trash by our community.
NOED- Complete rework, this was suggested by @Nickenzie:
No one Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which calls upon your potential. Whenever a generator is completed, receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect until you perform a successful offensive action. Every generator completed gives you a 2% attack cool down decrease which can stack. Movespeed bonuses from No one Escapes Death doesn't stack if multiple generators are completed simultaneously.
Adrenaline:
Remove the speed burst. (That's it)
I wrote these specific nerfs because they are counterparts, so if NOED gets nerfed, Adrenaline has to. Now Adrenaline will double the hits u take, and NOED will cut the hits you need in half.
Brutal strength:
40% 30% increase on pallet breaks and generator breaks. (This solves the so called 'issue' that people seem to think is a problem of you having to have an animation to kick a gen. Also makes Brutal strength a much better perk.)
Deja Vu:
Let it show you all the gens anyway with no cooldown and show you which ones are being repaired on from making the aura change (like the Wraith addon)
This will make both of them viable and actually playable.
I play both survivor and killer btw, atm I main survivor but that's because I went really bad so I started to play it more. I'm rank 2 survivor and rank 3 killer (going to push to rank 1 soon for both). Once I get the achievement, I am peacing out of red ranks forever. Green ranks had less killers/survivors bullying me lol.
Suggestions by @Eveline for Windows of Opportunity, and @The_Crusader for Overcharge.
Windows of Opportunity:
Remove the cooldown. (It can make this perk usable and viable on maps with basically no pallets like the Yamaoka estate.
I personally agree with @Eveline for this one since right now it's quite a boring perk. It's obviously meant to be for new players but it won't help unless they add this change since it wouldn't be broken because experienced players wouldn't need it.
Overcharge:
When you kick the gen, you give the survivors the difficult skillcheck AND you regress the gen 20% faster. This solves the issue of gens not regressing fast enough at all.
Comments
But a rework would actually make them cool.
Bbq is fine. Lockers counter it now it's easy to avoid. DS is a perk of a character unlike NOED so it cannot be removed. Only reworked completely.
Adrenaline is fine in my opinion because most of the time, the heal and speed boost will be wasted unless you're playing SWF or have great timing.
However NOED is a completely different story. It destroys solo Q survivors while being almost useless to SWF since everyone cleanses totems (with communication to keep track). This needs to change so that NOED is threatening to both sides, not just solo Q survivors.
How would this fit NOED?
No one Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which calls upon your potential. Whenever a generator is completed, receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect until you perform a successful offensive action. Every generator completed gives you a 4% attack cool down decrease. Speed bonuses from No one Escapes Death doesn't stack if multiple generators are completed simultaneously.
Oh that's smart. Combined with STBFL (which btw I've been using on Hag and Wraith and dominating straight out with it) it'd make a 60% decreased cooldown when all gens are done. That's awesome.
Imagine a 130% movement speed Wraith with a 60% cool down! After you M1 a survivor, you go back down to 115% but keep the 60% cool down so there's some crazy stuff you can do!
Buff Noed! Change it to
No One Escapes Match - NOEM:
I might still try to come up with an alternative myself but yours is really powerful, combining this with STBFL and PWYF and you got yourself a SUPER fast speed racer until he attacks. This is basically the original NOED I think but without the Exposed if I'm not mistaken.
None of this matters. You aren't the arbitrator of what is or isn't OP. There is no consensus and there is no stat showing 4ks handed out like candy because of NOED. So it comes down to you having an issue with NOED and offering nerf ideas to appease your own self interest. Call it a crutch, call it whatever you want. It doesn't bother me. You'll always have a late game threat from not cleaning the totems. Working as intended.
Sounds perfect
As for the others perks change you suggested, I like them
RE: NOED
Gotta' drop this little stinker here:
https://youtu.be/ouFi-lI1Rbs?t=94
This was the old machine gun build, at a total of 55% decreased successful attack cooldowns. Nowadays you can get 40% from STBFL alone. If you stick five stacks from NOED on there, you'd be back up to 60% (higher than before). Even at 4 stacks you'd still be higher than the old machine gun build, at three you're just below. That's a pretty fast build for a good chunk of the game, and that's before you take into consideration the movement speed boost. I think it might be a little much, the successful attack cooldown could probably be reduced or cut.
The rest I like. I've also wanted that exact buff to Windows of Opportunity for a while now. The perk is really geared towards new players, the only benefit it provides to experienced players is a slight edge on knowing which pallets have been used by someone else. I use it every now and then because I switch up my perks regularly and I notice it's almost always off. As soon as you get into a chase it'll get disabled, which sorta' defeats the point of taking the perk because chances are you've already planned out which pallet or window you're going to run to before you get chased.
However I do agree that the current WOO is a bit weak. You have a vault or pallet planned out anyway so it's worthless for 40 seconds after that. At best it helps show you the one beyond the one you had planned.
What if it worked for the next 1/2/3 pallets/vaults shown? So you could use your pallet, then a vault, then it would help you find one more and after that you're on your own?
I personally think it should be 2 but that wouldn't work as well with the tiered perk system.
Reduced to 2%?
Also, I thought you'd have some influence over the perk changes since your part of the Dead by daylight team? But yeah I'm going to reduce it to 2%. Thanks.
Actually. I guess it'd work but what would they do to Hope?
I kind of like the idea though. Plus newbies waste pallets and with this perk, they'd just fly through them. With the buff idea for brutal strength, it would be fine.
Oh right.
Thats a lifesaver in a chase. I want the buff you said because I have a brother who rarely plays. And he struggles with finding pallets. A buff like that would make him so much better. He'd get used to it like me.
Also trust me, it's a great idea. Honestly.
In regards to the idea of increasing gen regression speed for brutal strength, after considering it I don't think the devs would add it.
I think if such a feature was going to be added to a perk they would add it to Overcharge which itself is in need of a buff. The idea of giving survivors a "hard" skillcheck is dead. Anyone with a bit of experience can hit it 9 times out of 10, OC is only good for stopping gen tapping.
I could see this perk being buffed though, like for example overcharge causes the generator to regress at 20% extra speed and you need to complete a skillcheck to unlock it.
I think that feature would go on a generator perk rather than a perk made for smashing stuff.
Adrenaline is fine IMO, I have never seen it being OP considering how situational it is.
As for NOED, I don't think it needs a complete rework. I would make it be revealed when the last gen is popped, not when a survivor is hit. Secondly, the NOED totem aura could be revealed in a small radius once it's active.
It would be a better buff to overcharge tbf. Ok I'll add it. I'll make the Brutal Strength back to 30% since I heard that it'll make pallet break speed around 2 seconds which still gives the survivors a chance to run.
Help me understand this, why nerf a perk that can be avoided if every survivor cleanse 1 dull totem, it aint that hard.
This to me sounds like "oh i gen rushed the killer and he got us bacuse we were dumb to not destroy totems"
BTW 2 years into the game yet DS has no real counter.
I ######### up in what meant to say, sorry.
Basically what i meant is switching boths, make Hope gives a sprint burst when the last gen pop and Adrenaline gives the passive speed boost and the 1 state heal.
lets face reality here:
Hex: No One Escapes Death has been nerfed so many times now, it is already a bad perk as it is. You do not need to nerf it any more, the opposite is the case. I personally would even be for a buff.
The perk completely relies on the survivors to screw up. Destroy 5 totems and the killer is forced to play a full round with only 3 perks, while all of the survivors have their 4 perk slots available. combine that with another Hex Perk and the killer can only play with 2 perks all game, plus there are only 4 possible NOED totems to search for.
if anyone above rank 5 has any problems with NOED, maybe you should rethink weather you belong on this rank or not. there is plenty of counterplay to it. git gud.
PS: no. i am not running noed on all of my killers to have an easy game. i have switched the perk out for different perks. its eigther a perk that actively helps me to slow down the game or one that actually helps me to stop survivors from escaping, namely bloodwarden. (yes, even my freddy does not run noed anymore. and guess what? i make just as many kills as i did with noed). noed as it is right now is just a bad perk.
Juggling .-. And destroying NOED still slows down the game
Thats why lots of people run it?
And again, destroying all 5 totems STILL slows down the game. That's not a downside. Git gud.
Also, I don't have much of a problem with it anymore I just leave but using a bandage perk to solve genrushing is bad design. They need to address genrushing directly. I'll make a post today or tomorrow to address genrushing.
Git gud 😍
lots of people run it, because there are even more people who allow the perk to activate in the first place.
again: this perk completely relies on the survivors screwing up to even activate. and when it does, it usually still gets taken down withing seconds, or the survivors just leave. the perk has so many counterplay to it already, it is just not a good perk.
and no. cleansing 5 totems is not stalling the game nearly enough. it simply prevents these 4 minutes gens done scenarios. lets face it: totems are a joke. thats why totem perks in general are so bad, they barely have any effect on the game before they get destroyed. and please dont act like cleansing 5 totems would be stalling the game by more than like a minute. 4 survivors and 5 totems, each 16 seconds of cleansing time. that is basically nothing, if the survivors dont have full on tunnelvision on the gens.
also, "bad design" is funny to say. i would rather say its "cheap" or sthg like that, but bad design is too easy to counter. this game is full with bad design choices. just look at the endgame! its full on survivor sided, unless the killer brings NOED to help him during that mess (and now guess whats the most hated perk in the game? you guessed it.). i feel like you didnt quite understand that, even during the end game, you have not won. you have only won, when you officially left the round and noed makes you feel that.
and yes, the devs ARE currently looking into the genrush scenario. what do you think the last 2 events were for? they are testing the whole secondary objective stuff and ask for our feedback, so they can then proceed to implement it into the game.
TL;DR
a perk that can be completely avoided by eigther just leaving, playing stealthy, destroying a lit up totem, cleanse 5 non lit up totems or by using pallets and windows to slow the killer down and escape or stall time until someone got the totem is simply not a good perk.
i would change my mind if the perk would become indestructable once it activates though, which is something i would personally like to see.
PS: i am not the one complaining about something being too strong to be handled here, you are. so i will give all these "git gud"s back to you ^^
I love this counter, it works everytime, its not like if the survivor has a few braincells left he doesnt go down near a hook + while juggling you are extremely exposed to flashlight saves or body block in which case good job he got away and still has DS.
Thank you for telling me this awesome counter.
I heard enduring is a good counter too 4Head,
And what is the deal with NOED slows down the game? ofc it does it slows down the survivor since you get some pressure.
I dont understand your whole post, are you complaining that the games are to long or some ######### cause i dont get it.
This post is not me compaining but suggesting nerfs for hated perks. Btw I said juggling because that's the generic answer that people hate. The same way people say to clean totems, I'll give the generic answer for the other side.
You can't nerf NOED. You can never nerf NOED. The devs use NOED as a band-aid to balance the game, also every killer main would go ballistic if you ever touched their precious NOED.
I love when I argue with you, you're always so honest. And for once I will agree with you. This game is poorly designed in some ways. I'm glad the devs are fixing it. But soon, this will need to be reworked. They need to fix the endgame and make it more helpful for killer. Btw I do not understand much about the endgame side because as killer, I rarely reach it.
NOED will be fine for now but if they change the endgame, implement secondary objectives, balance everything else. I.e DS and other mechanics. Then this perk will have to go. My first idea for a nerf was to remove the movespeed buff but as you can see, everyone obviously didn't agree with that nerf even though it wouldn't change much at all.
Excuse me if I've got bad spelling, my tablets keyboard is a little broken.
You are the best. That's it. I can't believe I didn't see this the whole time. Because 119% ms killers with instadowns are completely balanced.
thank you ^^
and i think this is a basis we can both agree on: once the endgame changes, so must the perks.
and if they stall the end game, giving the killer enough time to catch the survivors, i dont see the need for a oneshot perk anymore.
i personally would be happy with just an movement speed oncrease and hit cooldown decrease for noed.
lets say it would work like this:
"No One Escapes Death"
Once all the generators are repaired, gain 5/7/10% increased movement speed and 20/30/40% reduced cooldown on successfull and unsuccesfull attacks.
boni do not stack
i would be happy with that.
also, please note that these numbers are just placeholders and would probaply need to be rebalanced.
im glad we could find a solution to this ^^ (rarely happens on these forums tbh...)
the Noed nerf seems good in retrospect and while i think that would make a great perk im not sure if i'd do that to my poor poor noed :'(
Maybe move noed to a offering, so its a one time use thing.
though when it comes to the adrenaline nerf tbh just nerfing the speed boost to 2s would be enough, the speed boost only helps when your just downed, and you can get up resetting the chase, or when your just injured and can go flying away.
That being said if you were to take away the speed boost, buff the living ######### out of hope
Hope : 10-15% extra speed for a minute. OR (which would be much more reasonable.) make the survivor 3-5% faster then the killers base speed that their vsing. right now hope is only really good against slow killers like hag, huntress, and m1 legions, (or brought alongside adrenaline) whereas this would make it so your slightly faster then all killers (not counting bloodlust or other factors.)
Hope can help you get about 2 extra loops against fast killers it's in a surprisingly good spot right now.
A 10% movespeed increase for killers would be quite broken they'd be at bloodlust 2 level. The reduced cooldown for successful and unsucessful attacks is a good idea since they wont be able to stack and it'd make them a real threat. Instead of the cooldown, how about they see the auras of survivors within 12 meters. So they can sniff out the immersed ones. Obviously, the auras will not be able to be seen when in chase otherwise jungle gyms will become effortless to mindgame.
My only problem with the current NOED is really just the fact it makes fast killers 119% that's 1% off of bloodlust 1 speed. It feels wrong since you can't loop them properly.
Cleaning totems is the legit counter to NOED 100% works everytime, juggling isnt an counter since you rely on survivor to do the mistake, there is this pattern across the entire game if you pay attention.
Killers always have to rely on survivor to ######### up in order for them to do good, with survivor they get a free bie across the entire game.
I dont hate adrenaline, i do think is super powerful, just swf make it stupidly powerful.
The only perk i want deleted is Dstrike this perk shouldn't even be in the game to start with. so yeah still dont see your point in this post.
Well @Mister_xD helped me see that NOED is there to solve poor endgame mechanics, which means that it doesn't even need a nerf as of right now therefore its counterpart, doesn't need a single nerf either. So most likely, I'll be bumping this post when NOED will have to go, which is when killers will have a chance to kill in the endgame. For now, this post might not make sense to you, but it will when they add a proper endgame.
When is the endgame coming ?
Maybe you arent as old as some of us that play this game from beta, i know that you believe that devs will actually do something about the endgame, they will probably do.
But the thing is by the time they actually decide to do something that shakes teh meta/game a little me and you and other X amount of players will be long gone from this game.
I've been playing since August 2017. The devs have done a fair amount to the game, they removed half the pallets, removed the pallet vacuum, double exhaustion. Those changes pretty much fixed looping. For the fact that survivors were a little too self reliant, they nerfed healing. But that just made genrushing super meta.
I'm willing to wait.
Key word "2017" , they did make a few changes but it just doesnt feel enough, maybe i;m different but take a look at the meta.
Since the 2016 meta has been Sprint burst +selfcare Dstrike and adrenaline did they change anything in the meta ? Hell no, they didnt even try.
They know that meta is boring, yet they do nothing to change it, there has been MILIONS of suggestions on how to shake it up and they just ignore it.
I feel like they dont care about the players, they just add things and collect the monthly paycheck, atleast it feels like it.
They are lucky that no other game could replicate the easy formula that dbd has, if there is going to be another game with the same formula im sure dbd will have problems.
Ok calm down. I know for a fact Adrenaline was considered a TERRIBLE perk before the exhaustion nerf. That's wrong. You're right about SB and DS. They do need to shake up the meta but it'll be tough for them.
But I like these perks the way they are
You like Deja Vu the way it is?
Adrenaline was never considered a bad perk, since 2016 till 2018 when got buffed being disabled at the current moment will pause adrenaline was considered a good perk but after that buff it started to become a stable piece in the meta.
I'm not sure what you mean by exhaustion nerf ?, adrenaline doesnt take in consideration if you are exhausted or not it will take effect+ sprint burst is still one of the best exhaustion perk in the game it lets you avoid a potential hit, no, deadhard is not better.
And on the last note, they had multiple attempts to shake the meta, but the chose not to since the backlash from survivors scared them, eg: self care nerf didnt go tru, dstrike nerf didnt go tru.... you get the point.