after being slugged for 90 seconds you should be able to pick yourself up for free.
I am being serious, slugging is so boring and takes forever to end the game. and of course we cant disconnect against it so we are forced to wait the entire 4 minute timer....... idk seems kinda dumb to me but i guess what are others opinions on this?
Comments
See, I disagree with this. It takes 240 seconds for a survivor to bleed out. If they haven't been picked up after 90 seconds, it's safe to assume they aren't going to be picked up.
This is silly. You don't need to slug for the 4k. Doing so gives you the guarantee that the last remaining survivor won't get hatch, but you are far more likely to find hatch as killer than you are as survivor. Survivor has to search for hatch while avoiding the killer. Killer doesn't have to search for the survivor while also trying to locate hatch.
Is basekit unbreakable still being worked on or did they abandon it ?
Arguments that singlehandedly push me in favor of basekit unbreakable
Reward them: nobody is on gens, hooks being traded, everybody is injured
Killer gameplay has always been so easy
Because of the mori system
1 time of this recover from ground being abuses can be enough for a killer to lose a match. For forever slugging, i prefer they give Finisher Mori - the match ends and everyone is out to the next one.
When the alternative as it is now is they just lose, game over man, you get nothing, good day sir...yeah, that's a reward.
Let me put it this way, if your fix punishes players who are doing nothing wrong, I can't get behind it.
A self-bleedout is the best compromise that allows players to get out of a situation where they are being left to bleed out, but doesn't punish players who are trying to play a straight game.
90 seconds is a minute and a half. That's how long it takes a survivor to complete a generator solo without any gen perks or toolboxes. There would be room for abuse if it were significantly shorter, but it's not.
First paragraph
It should take no longer than 60s to suss out the strengths of the team if the Killer cares to win, or even shorter if you use all the information available from Lethal Pursuer (walking thus likely Sprint Burst, AFKs, running with excessive wiggling suggesting inefficient pathing, etc.). A 3v1 essentially guarantees a tie best case for Survivor, unless the Killer colossally screws up. Big difference from Killer loss of 4 out, 3 out, and 2 out. Plus if the Survivors screw up too bad, they risk giving a 3k or 4k instead. Since we were starting from the concept of a 'competent Killer', that means on their worst day they still merely end with a tie, and the majority of the time they get a 3/4k instead. Earlier today I had 2 soloq matches where the Killer turbo tunneled they baby Surv at 5 gens, and the other 3 fell as a result. In one of them every player other than the tunneled player was individually better than the Killer, and frequently ran 1-2 minute chases (beyond average expectations) before the Killer merely Bloodlusted them at filler pallets.
"My first question is what about the mechanic is bad design to you?"
Bleedout as a mechanic or more accurately the dying state essentially puts someone in a state where they have no reason to interact with the game, and their time is better served alt-tabbed. The only reason wiggling on the shoulder even exists is to prevent all hooks from being basement hooks. As such, from Dying state to unhooked, the player isn't playing, or can do all too little to make a difference (recover on the ground at half heal speed, wiggle to prevent distant hooks, nothing meaningful more). Generators aren't exactly engaging, but the penalty of a missed skillcheck is high enough to keep the player focused on the game. Dying as is gives a paltry sum of Survival points to recover/hit wiggle checks.
Final paragraph
It currently is a secondary wincon that is slower but still possible to achieve. It should be far too slow to be desirable, due to the lack of engagement players have until unhooked/picked up. If basekit pickups or no Incapacitation existed during the Dying state (so you could heal/work gens/cleanse totems/open gates), then it would be fine to decrease the bleedout timer, because you can still play the game. Currently it is 'alt-tab time', and that is what makes it bad for the game. Like I said in the other post, time spent out of the game while you should be in-game, means why bother playing the game at all, just watch Youtube and never boot up DBD, or boot up a game you are actually allowed to play instead. As far as regression is concerned, it is basically a personal difficulty slider made alongside Clown/Blight spectrum for mix and match potential. Because the game functions on Killers eventually downing Survivors, Survivors are effectively on a ticking clock to win before resources run out. Slowdown gives Killers a longer timer, thus more resource attrition. Personally I use 1 max slowdown or gimmick combos, (on Killers I enjoy) and that is my current 'crutch/difficulty slider' for most enjoyable gameplay. Any more than 1 slowdown, and my matches are too easy to enjoy, any less, and I strain my skills beyond their current limits where I need to sweat to win, instead of casually enjoying Killer. People who care more about winning at all costs strictly run meta, because it is the most effective tactic available, or easiest to win as seen on the adjustable difficulty slider I mentioned above. I prefer to throw in perks like Blast Mine or Trail of Torment, as they are dopamine generators. I don't get as much dopamine from the raw win because I understand how meaningless it is to me, so the little moments are the most enjoyable like jump scaring as non-stealth Killers, or popping gens during the Blast Mine stun. If I just wanted to win (nearly) every match, I'd run a 3/4 slowdown Blight and steamroll without what I consider any effort on my part. I have more than 70% winrate (as Killer) as is, so I am happy with my results and how I accomplish them. Its just soloq being a torture simulator is what I strain against the most when doing tomes or when Survivor is 100% incentive.
Bleedout as a mechanic or more accurately the dying state essentially puts someone in a state where they have no reason to interact with the game, and their time is better served alt-tabbed.
do you alt tab when your on the hook on first stage? the recovery time is pretty fast. 30.5 seconds? you can still crawl. if your teammate nearby and killer is not, it is not that hard to pick survivors up. I do not see this as alt tab at all.
It currently is a secondary wincon that is slower but still possible to achieve. It should be far too slow to be desirable, due to the lack of engagement players have until unhooked/picked up.
I disagree. bleed out is not possible to achieve on competent 4 man survivor team. you are playing vs very bad survivors to achieve that in normal gameplay. like i said, i think slugging is too ineffective as wincon for pure slugging killers to work in dbd. right now it is mostly used as comeback mechanic in 3vs1's and sometimes to camp hooks.
Yes, everything needs to be easy for killers indeed
Imagine thinking simply wanting the hooks for the downs you earned was wanting to make it easy for the killer.
yup running to a hook-dead zone or having a duo sabo one singular nearby hook isn't cheap at all.
Boil Over was only one of the perks used. Exponential, Flip Flop, along with Boil Over. This post is about picking oneself up which removes the setup perk, Exponential.
Bleedouts/alt-tabs
Currently people don't frequently attempt a full-on bleedout, they slug for a short term advantage at worst, but not try to kill by bleeding out. Survivors have to be in the dying state for a Killer to attempt a bleedout, whether they are downing them and picking them up after the hit CD, pressuring the Survivors away from a potential rescue, or trying to waste 4 minutes of their time. In addition, many people do alt-tab on first hook (until 0-15s after being rescued, depending on how much they are paying attention), and this would exacerbate that problem. Crawling is a joke though, it takes ~6s of crawling to equal 1s of running, you can't make it anywhere meaningful with the timeframe given. Edit: If full Bleedouts are encouraged without the removal of incapacitation in the dying state (so they can work gens, heal allies, or whatever), people will alt-tab and stop playing the game.
Bleedouts not possible against competent players
I agree, when all four survivors are competent, bleedouts aren't possible. Sadly (the last odds we have say that) 60% of players are soloq, which increase the odds of incompetence massively. I mostly play to the incentive, but the largest reason for me to swap is soloq incompetence. I all too often run into a complete and total idiot on my team whose singular action (not even chain of actions, but sometimes those as well) lost the match for the entire team. That isn't rare, that's the Killers main method of winning (as and against), taking advantage of the incompetent. The other night a Yui played Blockbuster against an Onion Ring and ran tapes the entire game, never pumping gens (and denying tapes from teammates who might need them and did need them), and then a Steve who stayed Deep Wounded against a Nurse from a prior Endurance effect to commit on a gen, but then didn't fully commit (when he could have both finished the gen and mended), leaving the person on hook to die (due to hook rescue interception) as well as not finish the gen. I have 2 examples off the top of my head because they were so painfully annoying, but by no means are they uncommon. This is soloq, this is Pinhead's fantasy favorite realm, this is normal gameplay.
Edit: Forgot a relevant sentence to append to the end of the first section
There is no reason why someone should be expected to endure a few minutes of being on the ground while the other player hides from slug for the 4k. Unbreakable only works once, and the killer will certainly just slug you again if the other survivor does manage to get you up while they’re away. Wherever my MMR is right now, slugging for the 4k happens most games, it’s getting old. Huge waste of time for everyone involved, even the killer. It’s just a game, do the hatch gamble and set the ego aside.
I realize there are other reasons people may be scared to do something like allowing suicide or base kit unbreakable, but from my perspective with the slug for the 4k issue, I simply want a way out of this situation as a slugged survivor. If it didn’t happen so often I wouldn’t be complaining.
No you shouldn't as I feel this would just encourage it more for an easy 4K for killers which slugging as already seen as. Whatever method they put in should be be a discouragement not make it even easier..
it should be a choice of the survivors, not an automatic thing. how would that change anything?
why should slugging for 4k be discouraged also? killer has the right to secure their 4th kill as much as survivors have the right to hide for hatch. in fact they are countering rng factor of hatch or non-defendable doors afterwards.