This kind of slugging shouldn't be possible
Its one thing to leave a survivor on the ground for a moment while you engage another one you saw nearby, but when you leave the last 2 survivors on the ground for an entire bleedout knowing there is absolutely nothing they can do about it then that is when slugging becomes a problem. This pic below was taken after me (Kate) and Mikaela crawled across the map hoping they'd hook us so the match would end. Mikaela eventually made it to me and the killer decided to stand there and wait for us both to bleed out. This is why we need basekit abilities to deal with these situations. If nothing exists to deter and discourage killer players from doing this, they will keep doing it. The killer has no strategic advantage at this point. They already won, so the intent is clear. They only do this to be toxic.
Comments
Easier? No, but that's not what I said.
It rewards the killer with a literal instant win for: tunnel the first survivor at 5 gens immediately, then slug the last 3. That becomes the fastest way to win the game, and it isn't a fun play style for anyone.
The incentive is there, so playing this way becomes 'optimal', and what do were already know about 'optimal' gameplay in DbD? People will play like that and convince themselves there's money on the line in a tournament, even if it's never necessary.
And the cost of this is infinite unbreakable, which makes every down with a nearby flashlight lose/lose. If you pick up, flashlight save, if you leave them slugged and can't get the second down quickly, they get up.
Literally no one wants the finisher Mori to see the light of day.
“Needs to slug” 🫣
Normally I say this as a joke, but in this instance…..
Skill issue. Git gud.
Why are 3 survivors downed and no one on the hook in the first place?
Oh yeah, the killer is slugging, and we are literally discussing something to counter that
1 down then 3 other surrounding killer with flashlight, what's killer going to do? Pick the down survivor up and flashlight save? Or try to down them all and then the 1st, 2nd survivors Unbreakable?
Im trying to create a scenario where survivors can abuse if 4 survivors down gain free Unbreakable.
That sounds like free pressure even with the basekit unbreakable
You will be able to hook at least 2 survivors in that situation
It also prevents:
Slug races
Gifting hatch
Clutch Deliverance plays
Clutch Power Struggle plays
Clutch Unbreakable plays
Clutch Soul Guard plays
Clutch Adrenaline plays
Clutch Sabo plays
Potential of crawling to hatch/exit gate
Choosing the location of a mori
Mori'ing anyone other than the last survivor
The entire purpose behind Devour and Rancor
Killer agency in deciding to mori/hook/mercy
Sorry I'd rather tab out for a couple mins once every 100 matches and not lose a ton of potential game outcomes for the sake of a canned cutscene animation that will get old after 2 days.
Until picking the 1st survivor have flashlight saved by the 2nd survivor and they continue doing so. Downing 1st and 2nd, pick the 3rd, 4th flashlight save. What are you gonna do next? Trying to down the 3rd and 4th survivor? Or picking 1st and 2nd?
Its a loops. There are team that dont want to do Gen, just flashlight with Head On. Free Unbreakable isnt a way.
Again, killers who slug for pressure (not Nurse slugging game) is not a problem, killers that make survivors bleeding on the ground for 4min, or slug for 4k are.
Killer downing 4 survivors can hook at least 1, maybe 2 before the other 2 recover
There are survivors on the hook and all others are injured
Nobody is on gen
Sounds like winning
No, survivors don’t deserve to have their hands held when they massively fail. Only thing that needs to be done is a forfeit option for when everyone is slugged or a faster bleed out time.
Don’t like being slugged? Bring in the appropriate perk to counter it.
O God not slug races what ever shall we do with out slug races. I would rather never see any of that again if it means no more bleed out.
I could easily say the same thing, just changing for "killers don't deserve to have their hands held when they play scummy"
Playing in a way that you don't like isn't scummy.
I'll agree that bleeding out 4 slugged survivors is scummy- only and only if the killer can easily hook them. That scenario should have sped up bleed out. Otherwise, it's not scummy to slug players who don't bother spreading out and instead keep rushing the killer.
bhvr can't bring it in because the swf troops will abuse it with power struggle + flip flop, sabo actions etc... but bhvr could bring it in in a simplified version, as soon as only 3 people are alive then it will be activated, they should at the beginning purely dcn so that they abuse the swf turppen it, but a 3 against 1 is known to be easy for the killer to handle (see why the killers tunnel) at the same time the slugging is fixed
I guarantee I am better at this game than you.
I don’t think you get it. Hiding doesn’t progress the game and you get crows because of this. Slugging can progress the game because it gives the killer pressure and results in a win if they manage to down everyone. That’s a bad comparison. Furthermore, I wouldn’t care if they removed the crows. Experienced killers don’t need them to find people.
How is refusing to hook and dancing around progressing the game?
It doesn't matter if you see this as "karma striking back." Its still wrong. This is also a non argument. You're basically saying that because "this" happens then its Ok for "that" to happen. Also I never said any other thing in the game was Ok. I was saying this particular thing is not Ok. You're the one trying to make a counter argument for justification of a toxic act when I am just simply saying the act itself is wrong.
Also since you brought up the exit gate thing, if survivors spend 2 minutes at the exit gate doing anything that is the killer's fault. In 2 minutes you have enough time to go to both exit gates multiple times. In the situation I was in with Mikaela we couldn't do anything but wait to die.
That is not true at all. Instances in which the killer "needs" to slug are minimal. Arguments could be made that the killer just needs to avoid hooking anyone until all 4 survivors are down but if every killer played like that the survivor experience would be miserable. The only situation that slugging a survivor seems fair or needful is if you down someone and you see another survivor nearby that could potentially blind the killer or sabo a hook. If no one is around, pick the survivor up and attempt to hook them. There is no long list of reasons a killer player needs to slug survivors.
99.98% of survivors do not do this. You are being completely irrational and missed the point entirely by sticking to your original argument which was never an argument. If survivors are able to spend more than just a few seconds at an open exit gate doing anything then yes that falls on the killer for letting it happen longer than it had to. Your "2 minute" argument doesn't make any sense. 2 minutes is a quarter length of a match usually. We've also already established that no perk would effectively counter this situation. The only thing that would be effective is if every survivor ran no mither every match and were able to coordinate a perfectly timed full recovery which would force the killer to pick a target while the others ran away. This would require precision that only a swf with comms could pull off, so it is completely irrational to use a perk argument to deal with something that effects everyone both solo and swf.
I'm not defending anything. I didn't make this thread saying any behavior in this game is Ok or justified. You did that. If you think survivors standing in the exit gate tbagging you is a problem then go make your own thread about that instead of trying to hijack mine. You're trying to make the argument that a killer blatantly slugging the last remaining survivors for a full bleed out is the same as a situation that you can literally end by taking 2 steps into an exit gate and pressing M1. Let me know when its just as easy for survivors to remedy the slugging situation I brought up in my OP as it is for killers dealing with survivors bouncing up and down at an open exit gate. You are beyond irrational at this point and showing an extreme bias by comparing 2 situations that are in no way mitigated the same ways. You have a way to deal with exit gate survivors. We have nothing to deal with the situation mentioned in my OP without everyone on comms using no mither and spreading out. You may as well advocate for every survivor only doing SWF with comms at this point if you think its so easy to deal with this.
And by the way, when I said "they only do this to be toxic" I am specifically referring to the killer players who do this. You tried to turn that around and make the same argument assuming "99.98%" of survivors tbag in the exit gate. They don't. You know they don't.
Ok, I guess its time to make no mither base kit. I said the perk solution you think so easily counters this is irrational for a reason. You want every survivor to run no mither forever to deal with killers who do this. That is never going to happen and neither is it a rational solution to the problem.
Also me stating the irrationality of your take isn't me defending the behavior you mentioned of survivors. I didn't make this thread with the argument of "please survivors stop tbagging killers at exit gates so they'll stop slugging us like this." You brought that argument here, and I showed you how irrelevant it was.
Power Struggle abuse will not matter if they can pick themselves up after all survivors are downed
Again, in that case (players who dont bother spreading out), you can hook a couple of them and go for the others. They are not doing gens, you have all the pressure. I don't know how you see this as bad for killers
It is bad for killers because just one Unbreakable can completely turn the tides of the match. It is a powerful yet slept on perk because people would rather use perks to waste killers time in a chase.
Just like how you want to punish killers for taking a risk by slugging 4 people, survivors should be punished for taking a risk and bunching up.
Now that's the killer's fault for letting 1 unbreakable lose the match for them
Talking about holding hands
Ah yes; The Killer was mean, so all Survivors everywhere should get something basekit to abuse over Killers whenever they want. 🙃
I guess I'm not surprised Survivors demand more abuseable basekit mechanics; The devs gave them BT, which they abuse to bodyblock, then complain they got tunneled when they get downed for said bodyblocking.
So now they know they can keep yelling loud enough to get more mechanics they can abuse, then go ShockedPikachu.jpg and complain don't work. 😂
Or, the survivors just properly countered him as they should. They sacrficed a perk slot and spread out while slugged and made a good comeback.
There is no holding hands for the killer in this situation. Killer got punished by the survivors for taking a risk. You and everyone else are asking for the game to punish the killer for playing well, while rewarding survivors for playing poorly.
"Playing well"
Not hooking anybody
"Playing well"
Not hooking anybody
Playing well - Out playing four people and punishing them for their mistakes.
Am I being incredibly dense right now or there's nothing preventing anyone doing this exact same thing right now on live?
Also, and this is not particularly directed at Coffeecrashing (in an accusing manner, at least), your example just triggered this thought, but why people seem okay with survivors having perks to prevent "unfun" gameplay like Guardian, Kindred, Reassurance, Unbreakable and the like, but the moment an update could potentially require a killer to run a specific perk to counter an unfun new gameplay type, suddenly that shouldn't be allowed?
Like, survivors get slugged to death, "Just equip Unbreakable lol". But if basekit Unbreakable was a thing "Oh, no, there's nothing I can do against this" as if stuff like Iron Grasp didn't exist.
Heck, we can even ask for Iron Grasp buffs or some sort of basekit update like "If a survivor wiggles off your shoulder, their next wiggle attempt gets increased by [X] seconds until hooked. If they wiggle off twice in a row, the survivor can't escape your grasp again until hooked".
Just because the worst case scenario of an update that has been sorely needed could potentially get really bad there's no reason to give up on the idea altogether. They just have to polish it.
For not splitting up? Did you look at my screenshot and conclude that we both stood there and let the killer down us? Did you not read my OP at all? We CRAWLED to that location after both being downed. We were nowhere near each other when we got downed. There is nothing you can say to make this look better than the terrible situation that it is. Your entire argument since you came here has been "well since survivors are mean to us we are mean to them." I am saying this situation SHOULD NOT EXIST at all. Slugging is not a rare occasion either. It happens a lot and if you come to the forums and read what people say you'd see that its a very common thing brought up here.
Also don't you think that maybe just maybe some killers do this just because they like being toxic? Your entire argument has been "oh its payback time for all the tbagging" as if that is the only reason they do this.
To abuse? No, to counter something that shouldn't be a problem to begin with. I just don't want to be left on the ground for an entire bleedout while the killer stands there and refuses to hook us. That deserves to be punished. I'm not demanding anything. I'm stating how terrible this situation is and suggesting game changes be made to help reduce the occurrence of it. Also a conditional change is all that is needed for this. If every survivor is down and the killer refuses to hook anyone for a certain amount of time then survivors should be able to fully recover. That isn't asking for a lot.
And what if the Survivors do something like all run into a dead zone so the Killer cannot hook anyone?
To the game; It looks like the Killer is refusing to hook anyone, and thus they can pick themselves up. And thus, they run to that dead zone every time, so they can be downed and pick themselves up, and never be hooked or bleed out.
Abuseable.
I'm not saying remove the bleed out timer. If a team decided to do what you said, which arguably would be rare, they'd all eventually bleed out anyway. They're basically asking to lose the match that way at that point. Survivors can only ignore progress objectives for so long before the killer wins. You know what else is also abuseable? Slugging like what the killer did to us in my OP screenshot. I don't understand this mentality of taking these "what if" abuseable situations and using that as an argument as to why nothing should be done about another problem in the game.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the problem I mentioned in my OP. In fact I even said at the start there are circumstances slugging makes sense, such as the one you mentioned here. What happened to me wasn't the result of using any certain perk or playing a certain way. It was the result of nothing more than the killer being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. That is the problem being brought to light in this thread.
Well we know BHVR were experimenting with ending the game immediately once all surviving survivors are down (the Finisher Mori). Hopefully that's been scraped, but they could release something in a similar vein, where when all survivors are downed they can all voluntarily vote to end the game. It won't prevent trolling (plenty of randoms will vote no just to be a PITA) but it'll probably lessen the degree to which BM slugging happens as I imagine most survivors will vote yes. It also would allow those with something like Unbreakable to still try and salvage the game, without everyone just forcing themselves out of the game before it's actually over.
Guy spent real life money to get this skin and acts like a baby wraith
As for me, slugging killers come and go, yesterday was one of this day.
A trickster slugged us all at 5 gens freaking gens, then a Wraith did it at 3 gens, then again and again. The only one who didn't do it was Bubba, it's rare but it happens. Too bad for the trickster, he played later that day as a survivor and I remembered it, so I played against him and constantly gave away his position. Ended up dc'ed. I am that petty, yes.
But BHVR can't really do anything about it, if someone decides to slug, nothing will stop him (and the same goes for camping and tunnelling)
Yesterday in a game, 4 chose springwood as the map. Two of them had mettle of man and boil over
Throughout the game they hid in the basement of the school near the generator. Of course, it was impossible to get them to a hook as no one is close to that point. I let the other two players repair all the gens but the two who tried this brilliant tactic bled to death. They would get up and hit the ground again and again and again. It lasted quite a while as a match, it ended with 2 escaped 1 dead on the hook (he made a mistake and got caught near the stairs where I managed to bring him to a hook) while the last one I watched him bleed to death . He got up, fell to the ground, got up, fell to the ground.
Next game, Autoheaven, flashlight sabo squad, all with boil overs. It was fun I admit, but since they were running around the corners of the map ready to sabotage hooks well, the last two left waited on the grass for 4 long minutes.
Apart from the fact that they were two of the funniest matches of the last period, at least they were original in terms of ideas, without being able to resort to slugging I would never have won or at least had an even match.
This is to say that, as long as these possibilities exist, it will be necessary to be able to resort to slugging
99,98% is quite an assumption. Is 1 survivors staying at the gate, you count it as 4?
There is still the different that killers can just push them out, 4 survivors on the ground cant do anything. I dont waste Killer time, as I just push tbagger out and they cant waste mine. But what I cant control? Yes. 4min bleeding.
Its not karma when most survivors get slugged are those Solo that dont deserved to be slugged. Those bully survivors (who are "deserve" to get slugged) dont easily get slugged to begin with.
There be a difference, those inbred morons are not preventing the killer from playing. Now imagine if survivors had a way to stop the killers from chasing, from breaking pallets, hell from moving all that much! For four minutes all they could do was watch the survivors teabag them... The forums would be set a blaze.
Survivors who do this are going to do it whether a change is made to address slugging or not. The situations you mentioned are irrelevant to players who play normally. If you get a team that has players who are going to run to a dead zone for example to avoid being hooked then it won't matter if they can recover from a slug since you can knock them down again in that dead zone if they stay there. What are they going to do if you let them run from it? Start doing objectives? If so then great because that is what they should be doing anyway. The point is, if they decide to make a dead zone their priority they will eventually die from bleedout with or without a means to recover from the slug. The only thing adding a solution to full team slugging would do is allow survivors who play normally to recover from a situation the killer never should've been allowed to put them in (refusing to hook survivors). With a means to recover, the hook avoiding survivors will still bleed out. You just get to knock them down a few more times during the process.
OMG bleeding out is a problem? really?
Entitlement is so high on here...
What next... survivors will not leave during endgame?
Get up, make a drink / go to toilet and sit back down again... simples
Not want to have 4min wasting is entitlement...
Oh, I only play Killer, Trapper exclusively for months.
Except the team you want to waste their time is not A, but C -average Solo.
I never do that to C just because A did it to me.
Wait...did I say that?
I had a Wesker watch me bleed out while shaking his head and slashing.... Think maybe he was telling me what an awesome looper I was?
Irony is lost on you isn't it?
Some people might say that slugging people is a mechanic that is widely abused.
Always someone trying to ice skate uphill.
When the killer downs the last 2 survivors, stands right in front of them and refuses to hook them without moving for the entire duration of the bleedout then I don't have to guess what their motivation is at that point. I know what it is. You're making very big stretches to defend terrible behavior in this game.