Killers are leaving...

DrFrozen

New patch:

Everyone supposed that bhvr will finally nerf survivors, especially efficient SWF but it turns out that killers are being hardly nerfed.

DH got buffed- everyone was hoping that this perk will be out of the game for good... no.

Basekit Healing - maybe good that it's not a 24 seconds, current is okay

CoH - this perk was super opressive and increasing it's healing speed will decrease healing time to 8 seconds... Welcome to instaheal again in SWF.

CoB, Overcharge - too overnerfed, killer doesn't need slowdown because survivors can just sipmly take Brand New Parts, toolboxes and rush. Especially ruin got nerfed, POP got nerfed, everything gets only more nerfs...

Pain Resonance: Maybe good that this perk got nerfed but I don't think killers will run it anymore... although they have nothing else to run but deadlock.

Medkits are okay... for now.

I'd love to see Pop Goes The Weasel buffs...

Rulebreaker

@Batusalen said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393765#Comment_3393765

A quarter of total progress loss if the most progressed gen has a quarter of total progress in it to begin with the moment you hook a survivor for the first time. If while carrying the survivor to the hook they complete a gen an the next one has only 2% of progress in it, it would regress just a 2% of progress. And I would prefer if them just removed the "Scourge Hook" requirement from it so it would depend a little less on RNG instead of making it stronger, at least.

And they could just keep the 24 altruistic seconds, buff CoH to 100% as they are doing, buff the medkits to go from 50 to 100% of healing also and they would have the same effect in terms of "altruistic healing being equal as self healing with a medkit is a problem because a streamer said so" as now healing someone with the best medkit would reward you with a healthy survivor and almost 21 charges in a gen instead of the 24 charges that would take the survivor to heal themselves, while still giving some breathing time to killers. But no, because people would still complain that they being equal is still a problem as someone, somewhere said so.

And I think is simple to understand. Before, taking in count an scenario where the killer can get the unhooked survivor soon after being unhooked, if they decided to go after the unhooked survivor they would first have to deal with the basekit protection (Endurance + Haste) for 10 seconds, making the chase longer and almost impossible for the unhooker to not get DH, as for it to not being a "Safe Unhook" the unhooked survivor need to get downed again. From the wiki:

For an unhook to be considered as such, the just unhooked Survivor must not enter the Dying State for the following 10 seconds.

So, despite what people said, tunneling to denying DH was not a viable option unless you already planned to tunnel, so it wasn't an incentive to do it. Now? Now it would not only incentivice it, it is the best decision to make, as someone already with Deep Wound won't get the protection hit from DH. If you want to avoid the unhooked survivor to get it, you just need to trigger the basekit Endurance for him to get Deep Wound.

In other words, DH would not help you in that situation as there is no way a killer that has you on his attack range would simply wait the 10 whole seconds so you can get to chose when you are protected of the hit by using DH. They would hit you to trigger basekit Endurance, and just keep chasing you like they would do anyways. In fact, this change would benefit killers than can camp reliably like Bubba the most.

DH won't only not protect you from being tunneled , but now you would only get DH when survivors stop unhooking you with the killer 5 meters away of the hook... yeah, good luck with that. That's what happens when people complain of things they don't fully understand.

Multiple perks can be wasted. DH, SB, Pop, Blast mine, head on, heck even old PR as we've had your scenario happen before. As we've said before killers can chose (little but its there) when to try and apply that 25% and now we got to be smarter about it when playing killer.

Fair enough to your own thoughts on the healing but we still think the medkits needed changed and not overall healing.

We saw "Tunneling to prevent DH" more as "Tunneling to prevent this survivor from getting DH" as they needed to save others to activate it. This gave killers a reason to go for the unhooked as it was guaranteed they didnt have DH active (atleast for the first one). Currently going for the unhooker is the same thing instead of the unhooked.

In your scenario it wouldn't matter which survivor you went for at the start though we feel your correct that it would encourage tunneling later in the match. Either you hit the unhooked through bt and keep going (as an aside, we've had killers, ourself included, wait out basekit protection if they want a survivor bad enough) or go for the unhooker and no DH for them assuming its not someone already hooked. When your scenario happens.

If survivors are unhooking 5 meters from the killer, then they are either new, trolls, or desperate. Even in solos we often get people who know how to safely save.

We don't realy see it benefiting bubba though as he really cant be countered camping if the player has a brain. It buffs camping, but dont think it even maters to bubba.

Rulebreaker

@DBDVulture said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394219#Comment_3394219

-"That sounds condescending all things considered over us not being clear with wording"

I didn't mean to be rude. I just think we can both agree that perks that went from 30 to 6% or lower usage is a very clear indication of "nuked". When they change a perk with the intention of making it a meta perk and then it gets 6% usage - that's an indication the perk sucks.

-"DH is stronger now than the old "DH for distance" because you get sprint burst distance on demand."

I still stand by this quote. DH now is better/stronger for the top 5% of players than the old DH was for most players.

DH in its current form lets you loop throw a pallet and then take a hit - letting you go to a new loop. If the terrain is great you can run 2-3 loops and waste all the pallets. When you're about to get hit you use DH. This last part is the key here because you get the endurance twice.

What if you only get endurance once per "down". In other words if you were hurt and used DH you could get the endurance - but if you were healthy you would only get the endurance the first time and get no speed boost from using DH (just the distance from killer recovery)

We would consider that people using "stronger" things. They're not as effective as before, thats a given, but they aren't really nerfed to the point of uselessness (some exceptions ofcourse like Ruin). People want to use the best for their wants, if the current best toy gets nerfed they move on. However, if thats your definition of "nuked" then very well.

We also believe the intention was they (the devs? higher ups?) wanted to not make it a meta perk anymore when changing it. They want it used less, which to be fair to them they usually get when they "nuke" things unfortunately.

Fair enough, to each their own.

Technature

Oh my ######### god here we go again...

Archael

I found it a funny thing that devs, wanting all perks being used from time to time, instead of trying to balance perks so that all are moreless equal so every player use other perks depending on their playstyle, they shifts meta so that some perks are obliterated and unsuable and others are made the strongest so that everyone are using only those few meta perks.

Rickprado

@Sonzaishinai said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393084#Comment_3393084

And in that same scenario if you did have a scourge for the second one then you'd have the vallue of 3 old pr scourge hooks and 5% on top of that.

And in that doom scenario you discribed all you've lost is 5%. The reward is quite a bit higher then the risk here.

Yeah, once. Then you will need to spread hooks to get some perk value (while using 2 perks slots), or completly ignore your perk and go chase someone who is closer to death.

As i've said, if it was Limited usage or RNG, that would be fine. But limited uses + RNG is too stupid.

Pain Ress is not a strong regression perk like Call of Brine, which can get 90% gens to 0%. Its was used to give killers some time to apply regression perks (like CoB), apply deadman, get info (with Surveillance) or even try to get a hit in a survivor before it end the gens.

Now, if you use the perk you will need luck to find a 0 hooks survivor (which mid to late game, is not a good thing), luck to get a scourge hook near enough when u down the survivor, and luck enough to apply Pain Ress before they finish the gen. Anyway, the survivor on the hook will have 2min left to die; survs can coordinate to finish the gen and get the rescue anyway.

OR

You chase a survivor closer to death and get no value from your perk, even if you go to a scourge hook.

I don't see how this much of IFs can be better than old Pain Ress.

Batusalen

@Gandor said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393896#Comment_3393896

It's very simple. Take single survivor (as other survivors are the same thing - so ypu can simplify). To get full proc out of PR, you had to be able to 3x get that person to hook. For any other scourge, the debuff was applied on unhook, so each of those could proc at most 2x. Now for new PR, you get full 25% regression no matter if you are able to get that person on 1st, 2nd or even 3rd hook. Any one of those 3 instances will give you full benefit. Meaning you have 3 tries instead of having to get correct hook 3x in a row. This is quite a benefit from RNG-wise to get scourges.

Sure. Overall new PR is weaker then old PR, because potential and attainable 45% is more then "easy" 25%. But again. The chance to get full value is definitely higher with new PR then it is right now and the difference is substantial. The only real limiting RNG factor is no longer on having scourge hook at all, but more in line of what you have already said - if there's non-blocked gen that has at least 25%. This might not be so, but it's very likely that at the beginning during your first chase this will almost always be true.

So, PR is less dependant on RNG because instead of getting the effect guaranteed if you were lucky in the first dice roll at the start of the map you can throw the dice 3 times instead of getting the effect 2 times... no, yeah, sound logic to me!

If you proc the effect on a gen with 1% of progress, you are not getting "full benefit". Simple as that.

Batusalen

@VoidOfMe said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393717#Comment_3393717

"Killer mains complain about the PTB changes"

"BHV revert the changes using their feedback"

Killer mains from the forums: "SNIF SNIF BHV HATES KILLERS"

"I post killer mains that stream that agree with the changes"

Killer mains from the forum: "OH YES, THE GREAT STREAMERS..."

🤭

Yeah, I'm sure it was "killers main" the ones review bombing the game since the PTB was announced.

And again, we all know that the council of streamers have the ultimate wisdom in their hands and can never be wrong...

Batusalen

@Rulebreaker said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393808#Comment_3393808

Multiple perks can be wasted. DH, SB, Pop, Blast mine, head on, heck even old PR as we've had your scenario happen before. As we've said before killers can chose (little but its there) when to try and apply that 25% and now we got to be smarter about it when playing killer.

Fair enough to your own thoughts on the healing but we still think the medkits needed changed and not overall healing.

We saw "Tunneling to prevent DH" more as "Tunneling to prevent this survivor from getting DH" as they needed to save others to activate it. This gave killers a reason to go for the unhooked as it was guaranteed they didnt have DH active (atleast for the first one). Currently going for the unhooker is the same thing instead of the unhooked.

In your scenario it wouldn't matter which survivor you went for at the start though we feel your correct that it would encourage tunneling later in the match. Either you hit the unhooked through bt and keep going (as an aside, we've had killers, ourself included, wait out basekit protection if they want a survivor bad enough) or go for the unhooker and no DH for them assuming its not someone already hooked. When your scenario happens.

If survivors are unhooking 5 meters from the killer, then they are either new, trolls, or desperate. Even in solos we often get people who know how to safely save.

We don't realy see it benefiting bubba though as he really cant be countered camping if the player has a brain. It buffs camping, but dont think it even maters to bubba.

Nice way of simply ignoring every single point I gave to you.

In my "scenario", what are you supposed to do if they just complete a gen when you are in front of the hook with the survivor? Drop it? Let it escape so they can progress the gens some more before hooking him for the first time so you can get the most benefit from PR? Because I don't know in what other way we could chose when to proc the perk if that happens. Not that you really have a choosing in when exactly you down and hook survivors anyway, but hey, I'm trying to stick to your logic here.

And why overall healing didn't needed a change? Because again, people don't stop repeating "altruistic healing should be lower than self healing with a medkit" and "altruistic healing wasn't the problem" but yet I don't see anybody giving a good and logical reason of why.

And what you said there doesn't change the fact that now your best option is to tunnel every single unhooked survivor to avoid him to get DH later in the game.

But yet again, you do you man. Whatever all of you say (BTW, who are we?).

Veinslay

Who cares what killer main streamers say, most of them are getting fed a steady stream of complete babies from the matchmaking system. It's incredible that pc killer main streamers with 8,000 hours are getting matched with players that routinely run into walls while every time I load into a lobby as a console player i get multiple p100s, 4 mans, super sweaty teams

Rulebreaker

@Batusalen said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394266#Comment_3394266

Nice way of simply ignoring every single point I gave to you.

In my "scenario", what are you supposed to do if they just complete a gen when you are in front of the hook with the survivor? Drop it? Let it escape so they can progress the gens some more before hooking him for the first time so you can get the most benefit from PR? Because I don't know in what other way we could chose when to proc the perk if that happens. Not that you really have a choosing in when exactly you down and hook survivors anyway, but hey, I'm trying to stick to your logic here.

And why overall healing didn't needed a change? Because again, people don't stop repeating "altruistic healing should be lower than self healing with a medkit" and "altruistic healing wasn't the problem" but yet I don't see anybody giving a good and logical reason of why.

And what you said there doesn't change the fact that now your best option is to tunnel every single unhooked survivor to avoid him to get DH later in the game.

But yet again, you do you man. Whatever all of you say (BTW, who are we?).

Then don't overcomplicate each point. Its about a game, not life or death.

You can do whatever. If you want the most out of new pain res then we'd recommend slugging them or dropping them. So yes, you can drop them, you can use the token and hope there was a gen being worked on, you can spin around till they wiggle free, you can do whatever you want. You still have that choice, good or ill. If they removed the scourge hook requirement then competent killers would burn through their 4 tokens really fast and it would be wasted anyway. Currently killers can at least hold off burning them if they dont want to.

And why overall healing didn't needed a change? Because 2 people healing for most of a gens worth of time is ridiculous.

And if that survivor can run you the rest of the gens while you tunnel them does it still make it the best option? Tunneling them only avoids dh, not the rest of their skill (or map rng). If you only want to avoid dh then sure, best option.

[We is shared account of Rulebreaker]

Marik1987

I dont feel that way. Its still always the same:

100% on survivor in the daytime, 100% on killers in the evening/night here in Germany.

This hasnt changed a bit since it came out. Well, maybe tiny changes, but nothing too crazy.

ratcoffee

@Batusalen said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393946#Comment_3393946

Of course. That's why you, again, said "because you're overperforming" when again, there are many times when you won't get value from it precisely because gens are getting done fast and just in the moment you are going to hook the most progressed gen gets done. That among all the possible outcomes that luck and pure RNG could make you have while using it that isn't "I didn't have the chance to get value from it because I'm destroying the survivors this match".

If there is two gens left, you are about to hook for the first time a survivor after getting two hooks in other two survivors (5 total) and just before you do it one gen is completed and the other 3 gens don't have any progress in it, you didn't get value from the perk because you are doing so good and are in such a good place having 4 survivors alive with just 1 gen left to go that you won't need it! My false equivalency fallacy says so!

Again, whatever makes you sleep better at night, man. I'm not going to argue against the same illogical point over and over again.

once again i will say that i find the scenario you described happens far less often than the scenario i described. i'm sorry you feel your experience is different

fulltonon

@Veinslay said:

Who cares what killer main streamers say, most of them are getting fed a steady stream of complete babies from the matchmaking system. It's incredible that pc killer main streamers with 8,000 hours are getting matched with players that routinely run into walls while every time I load into a lobby as a console player i get multiple p100s, 4 mans, super sweaty teams

Yeah this is beyond ridiculous, how can they match against literal babies consistently? I bet I'm playing a different game.