Dead Hard, again.
Everyone else is having their say, so will I.
As we all know by now, dead hard is a very broken survivor perk, I do play both sides I choose to run SB rather than DH.
The main issue with DH is the potential to extend a chase, even when the survivor makes a mistake, significantly.
I've had a very good amount of games where a survivor, out of position, uses dead hard and extends a chase by an extra minute.
You might ask - why not bait it out? Why not leave chase?
Well, baiting it out "waiting for it" is pointless, the survivor can use this time to get to a pallet in which they guarantee safety and leaving chase simply is a massive waste of time and leaving them would simply allow them to heal up and do it all again.
Another main issue I have with it that some seem to forget is this game is 4 v 1, if all 4 survivors, of equal skill, use dead hard and know how to loop you can extend a chase by a minute at least, if all 4 survivors do that, that's an extra 4 minutes wasted by then most gens will be done.
One perk should not have this sole power, especially when 4 people can use it against you, I'd certainly like to see it changed, to anything. the 3rd health state on a perk is ridiculous, even if it was changed to a one time usage (Like DS) it'd be much better.
Comments
People really do not understand how to make a read?
Baiting DH out requires literally one second. A killer wise to DH won't get burned by it.
Idk why people keep claiming this perk is broken. It's abused by high mmr players but so are loops, flashlights, bodyblocking and sabotage plays.
Even a prestige 100 players can't get an easy dead hard if killer counterplays it and I'd know because I bait it out all the time when I play killer and I frequently thrash players with much more experience than me. Sure it's punishing when you get caught out, and they can occasionally force catch 22s on the odd pallet but the timing required is insanely tight. At the end of the day it's a skill issue. Not a broken perk.
Funny you saying eruption encouraged chases. Because killers with eruption were all more likely to drop chases all the time to protect their 3 gens.
Pop encouraged chases and progressing the game.
Eruption was an overpowered stalling tool.
Pop and jolt encourage chases and progressing the game.
And the fact that everyone is ready to call a 10% regression + 12 sec aura reveal a worthless perk, just shows how much you all just rely on game delay instead of actually making plays. Safety nets are nice like that
-"And the fact that everyone is ready to call a 10% regression + 12 sec aura reveal a worthless perk, just shows how much you all just rely on game delay instead of actually making plays."
I expect you to laugh in my face if I said deja vu was a good perk and you should use it. There is no way I can get any value out of the rework of the eruption perk (which originally was going to be 10% regression of current progress).
The current version of the perk gives forces a survivor to stop working on a generator and keeps them from doing anything for 25 seconds. The rework should have just made the generator regress for 30 seconds and nobody can work on the affected generators.
You just pressure a different generator (said in the same tone I imagine everyone saying : you just bait the DH).
I almost never use eruption. But the majority of people I play against use DH.
-"Pop and jolt encourage chases and progressing the game."
Pop is beyond dead and almost nobody is using it because most of the time you're getting 5 seconds of regression or less (when you factor in how long it takes to kick the generator). This perk used to give you 20 seconds every time you used it. Would anyone still use Sprint Burst if instead of getting 150% speed for 3 seconds you only get a speed burst for 0.75 seconds? I think not.
For Jolt to be a valuable perk it needs to apply any kick perk you have (that does not require a cooldown) to the effective generator. Actually let's talk about regression speeds. Killer regression without a kick perk should be equal to a single survivor if four people are alive. The fact that it is not is a reflection of poor design and shows just how out of touch the developers are with their game. Whenever anyone dies just cut the regression by half. That means with 3 people alive it would be double the current speed and with 4 people alive it would be four times faster than the current speed.
Jolt does literally nothing if :
If CoH got a nerf on the level that Eruption was getting then killers would be destroying any boon with no perk just by kicking it. Likewise if hex perks were buffed to boon levels then they could be rekindled indefinitely and instantly (just like a pentimento interaction) unless every dull totem on the map had already been broken.
Boons would be balanced if you had people desperately cleansing totems all the time for fear of the killer always using Blood Favour. And that's exactly what would happen if that change went live. Overnight every killer would be using Blood Favour because it would be reactivated over and over again until every boon on the map had been destroyed.
-"Baiting DH out requires literally one second. A killer wise to DH won't get burned by it."
If you're at a pallet and you have DH then I can't counter any play you make. That's broken.
You can also watch killers like Otz wait 3-5 seconds against very good players and they still have not used the DH. You're spouting some false rhetoric that is only viable when survivors do not play the game well.
But Deja vu is a nice perk, not S tier or crazy strong but its nice.
Pop was nerfed to hard, but now you are complaining about some of the best killer perks like jolt being bad.
You literally are considering every perk that isn't oppressive or game changing as bad. No wonder you all think killer sucks, you don't even seem to value your stuff.
Also hexes being buffed to boon levels, what boons do you see besides CoH. Boons are basically a killer perk besides CoH, survivors hate bringing them. And i am not even saying that CoH is ok. But saying boons are OP compared to Hexes?
Survivors have 16 perk slots while killers have 4, i see way more hexes than boons. How are boons better than Hexes, besides CoH.
CoH is OP, boons are a weak and a waste of time for survivors
Hardly, at a pallet it's not going to be a sure thing, the timing required to pull off a play like that is insanely tight. So many players on this forum seem to have a top down mentality. Just because the absolute best players in the game make effective use of it means a perk is broken?
You're basing an opinion on the top 1% of players and that isn't a healthy way to base game balance. If I can bait out DH, from players who have over 100 days solid playtime, on the regular. When I have only been playing since august last year then it can't be "broken"
It's a good perk to be sure. The absolute top players make damn good use of it. But it is by no means unbeatable. It is counterable. It requires skill and fine timing to use. If new survs were out playing experienced killers on the regular because of it then yes it would be broken. But they don't, and it isn't.
Ok, no you are just insane if you actually think some of your suggestions are ok.
You are just short sighted and can't see how disastrous the consequences are for half of your requests.
The game is in a really healthy state for survivors and killers right now. It's not perfect, there are still a lot of things that could be improved for both sides.
But somehow you seem think that killer is dying or something. Bhvr has continuously been helping killers since the game came out and they will continue to do so
I feel like I'm expected to do a full proof by induction at this point. I explain why I think DH should be nerfed again and next thing someone asks me "Well, what about this random other point / thing?"
Do either of these perks require your opponent to specificly counter them even when they can't be sure if they're in the game? Pain Res + DMS does that and if that's what it takes for DH to get nerfed, by all means I'll support you in killing both of these perks. I'll even pay for the coffins. Besides the synergy gets another shadow nerf with the longer screams in the next patch, that will make this problem disappear.
None of these perks are as disgusting to go against as DH is. If they were, there wouldn't be this many threads about DH and more about them. I would probably be indifferent about DH, if it had never been this overused, but here we are. Every game it's the same old thing. The killer get's into position to hit an injured survivor and now the killer will wait. No skill, no mindgame, just waiting. This is not fun. This is not the experience you want in a game.
Please have a look at this discussion as well. We've pretty much covered every single point regarding DH already:
Something else I would like to add: No other perk is hated with so much passion. There is always another discussion of why DH should be nerfed / changed. After the QoL updates survivors got this is the least BHVR can do to improve QoL for killers. Why should it be ok to make the game more fun for one side but not look at the perk that makes most people playing the other side miserable?
It really isn't that deep.
I just do not understand how people are having so much trouble with DH and why it affects them on such a raw and emotional level.
That's almost funny. Almost.
You ignore arguments about why people despise DH so much, claiming 'it's not that deep' when it actually is, and then don't understand the problem. If you are happy with current DH then that's good for you. I and many others as well still want to see this perk gone.
I don't want to wait after every survivor. I don't want to constantly second guess, if I can allow myself to use my killer's power against an injured survivor and I don't want to deal with a perk that I don't even know is in the game yet anymore.
DH is an anti-fun perk to play against. Such was Eruption and it's a good thing the devs did something about it. Nerfing Eruption but keeping DH the same when every reason for Eruption's nerf applies to DH as well is hypocrisy.
I've actually found that swinging immediately surprises people, also, it's usually not reactable if you don't lunge.
You really have THAT bad of a reaction to waiting two seconds? Likewise, there are a ton of Killers who just completely invalidate DH.
Most, not all, of the complaints about DH that I see eventually boil down to skill issues. Please, do not lose your #########. Notice how I said most, not all.
Dh is more fun even it does not always give value but usually killers are not smart and lunge midnlessly if everyone would bait it out I would not use it. But when it does get value it's better than any other exhaustion perks.
Eh doesn't bother or affect me that much. When survivor does something wild like run towards me or something else obscure (Window plays etc) I just wait for it then swing!
Old Dead Hard was way worse! This is nothing like that.
Well, let me pierce Dead Hard with an instant M1 attack, maybe reduce the speed duration a bit. Should make the perk less obnoxious, since once a killer is right behind you they can just swing, and not wait 2-5 seconds every time. If it's so easy to "bait out", why bother needing to bait it out at all? Like saying "hook grabs are easy to counter, just spam unhook for 5-10 seconds until the killer swings". Sure, but does anyone actually enjoy that?
I don't mind it hardcountering lunges at pallets, I just think the whole "guess at which point in time the surv will activate DH is extremely unfun, for both sides. Like spamming unhook to not get grabbed. It's stupid.
No, I don't fear Sprint Burst suddenly becoming twice as popular as old Dead Hard. That won't happen, and would also be an improvement if it did happen.
It went from 42% usage to 34%. Just nerf it like I said and it'll be fine.
What part of "No lunges" do you not understand? Lunges are a pretty integral part of a Killer's chase. Easily the difference between a hit and a pallet stun in many chases. How many times must I repeat myself?
If this was a skill issue, DH's usage would go down at higher MMRs, not up. Top-tier Killers wouldn't keep running into it, or swinging into it.
I mean, look at this #########. You couldn't ask for someone to put more effort into baiting it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Q7MDmCA6EThis is a very skilled survivor against a very skilled killer. It's not that there's no skill here, it's that both opponents are roughly equally skilled, and are (correctly) predicting each other.
He is absolutely certain that she wants to use dead hard, and she knows he's waiting for a mistake or a cue to swing. They're both in each other's heads... Because both are similar skill.
'Skill issue' is when you have a disparity between opponents' skill levels. What this tends to mean with dead hard is the killer is just following a survivor and swings or even lunges immediately, and the survivor is predicting that to get dead hard value. That's the survivor outplaying the killer, or at least being more patient than the killer.
It's also possible for the killer to out-skill the survivor. Baiting dh is possible, predicting that the survivor has it, not falling for the mind games. Even bringing perks that cause exhaustion can offer value. All possible, but that depends on how good the survivor is, and how good the killer is (again, skill issue).
I'm convinced that if a failed dead hard caused the survivor to scream 'i suck at the video game' when downed, it wouldn't be complained about nearly as often. It's a survivorship bias problem: you only see it when it works, and there's no indication when it failed except to the survivor.
Nah dead hard is fine. I see it in every stream, people are swinging more into it than they should.
You are aware that EVERY perk is used in every match up to 4 times, because that includes 0 counts of the perks as well?
So every perk has a red flag, and this whole sentence has no meaning.
The perk is broken, not so easy to "bait it out" as you suggest, some situations any killer will get burned by it.
This clip is exactly what I mean.
-"But Deja vu is a nice perk"
No it isn't. There is no survivor main like JRM saying: bro you need to get on Deja Vu right now at top tier MMR. We can look at how often the perk gets used and it's probably sitting somewhere between 1-4% or less.
DV is a training wheels perk. It has a purpose that can help new players. Windows does the same thing but Windows also helps a top tier survivor loop more efficiently.
-"Pop was nerfed to hard, but now you are complaining about some of the best killer perks like jolt being bad."
Jolt would be fine if the killer had 1:1 regression with a survivor after the generator starts regressing. If you explain this game to an intelligent person this is usually one of the things that comes up. There are four survivors working at 1.0 and the killer has 0.25 regression. In other words the ability to finish gens is 16x greater than the killer's ability to undo them.
Meanwhile safe pallets and DH can make a chase last over a minute. Three people working for one minute = three minutes of progress. This is why the killer is expected to lose two gens in the first chase. If you trade a generator for a hook every chase after that the game is quickly over for the killer.
"-I am not even saying that CoH is ok. But saying boons are OP compared to Hexes?"
-"How are boons better than Hexes, besides CoH."
Compare NOED from 2016 to noed in 2023. Compare map design from the same points. What was NOED supposed to do? NOED was designed as a "revenge" factor for the killer. The 2016 version was :you were hard to get before the end game but now here's my revenge with never ending NOED with 9% speed that cannot be removed. In 2023 we have survivors that are nearly as hard to catch as in 2016 but the perk is useless except in very specific situations.
I never ever use hexes. Unless you have just the right kilelr (like demo with whistle) you can't defend them and that is the design.
Boons however are designed so you can't really destroy them - this is foolish.
Boons should be as easy to destroy as hexes. If boons can be renewed then hexes should work the same way.
I would use hexes if they required survivors to break all 5 bones to prevent their use. That's not how it works so they are trash.
-"CoH is OP, boons are a weak and a waste of time for survivors"
Watch the very best killer streamers play DBD. When they lose its usually a combination of 3/4 man SWF+boons+strong items. This is a recipe we see over and over and over.
You have no idea how the game plays out vs good players if this is what you think.
For one thing he said just one of the five not all five. Another thing I love is when ppl talk about new eruption like it still going to be a good perk...Yeah, it kept its regression but 10% even total is ######### compared to other perks shoot I would get more value from Jolt since it doesn't req me to kick a damn gen, and the aura part is completely useless unless you slug. So I hope you enjoy laying on the ground after a blight or nurse downs you bc they are the only ones who can really use that 10s of info even then they still need to slug. Eruption imo is getting deleted from the game not nerfed bc it offers nothing. It joins other useless killer perks like Thana, FC, and Dying light. A dead perk with no real benefit of running it.
Because unlike you, even with its inconsistency I have ZERO issues with DH whilst playing either role. It's a fine, nay great perk! :)
Now go use your circling "arguments" on someone else, and stop spamming my notifs.
There's no bigger kick in the teeth playing as an m1 killer, eating pallet after pallet only to finally get within striking range when they take a wrong turn, only to get screwed over by the click a button to deny you a hit. Its more annoying than losing to noed or being flashlight saved 😐
M1 killers get punished even more, it's nothing really for nurse, but Pig, for example, who is already very weak, made even weaker by "E"
Very rarely. I play killer a fair bit. And I'm not that "experienced" a player according to a lot of forumer on here. I probably have 250 hours on killer.
And I deal with DH just fine. To use DH effectively you have to predict almost exactly when the killer will hit you. And most players will either run at you, or wait for you to lunge. Holding off for 1 second will let you see the surv dab then you smack them. Sure extremely good players will use it at pallets or vaults. But they still get stuck in an animation and there is a gap between the dab and being able to drop a pallet. People who can use it tonthat degree are few and far between. I drop prestige 80+ players with over 100 days play time.
As killer you simply need to have the discipline to not swing at the first possible second. Be less thirsty for the hit and you'll find you start to encounter it a lot
Deja Vu has been a staple in my games for one reason alone.
It helps counter the Eruption 3-gen meta. When Eruption goes away, I'll probably take it off, but it provided a ton of value.
Don't bother, he knows he's wrong but he got too big of a god complex to admit it.
I don't know if I'm wrong or right. I do know that Monolyth kinda went and made a silly post right after this that sort of proved my point.
What I do know is that DH simply isn't that big of an issue to me.
-"If I can bait out DH, from players who have over 100 days solid playtime, on the regular. When I have only been playing since august last year then it can't be "broken""
There is a logic error in saying : if I can play around it then it's fine.
The problem with DH is that it gives you more time in a chase than any of the other exhaustion perks.
-"If new survs were out playing experienced killers on the regular because of it then yes it would be broken. But they don't, and it isn't."
New players fail in a horrible way when they use the new version of the perk. The most grizzled veterans can get +40 seconds of extra time in a chase. That's not right when you compare it to Sprint Burst or Lithe.
Imagine for example if DH were changed so that it didn't give you a "sprint burst" if you already had a sprint burst from another source in the last two minutes (this is extreme but just humor it for a moment). That would change the perk so that it would be strong only if you were hurt before getting chased. It would prevent the "third health state". DH without the sprint burst unless you started the chase hurt would be a lot closer in line to Sprint/Lithe.
Overall your argument boils down to : I can play against DH just fine at mid ranks. Yes that's true. And you can also play Clown without pinky finger and play trapper without Bloody Coil and still have fun. Try that at "red ranks".
-"Ok, no you are just insane if you actually think some of your suggestions are ok."
That's rude.
-"The game is in a really healthy state for survivors"
This statement is true but the problem is that the rest the sentence which I truncated is false. DBD is not fun to play as killer right now except at low ranks and mid ranks. At high level play you need to play Blight/Nurse or an A tier killer with best in slot addons.
That sucks.
-"But somehow you seem think that killer is dying or something. Bhvr has continuously been helping killers since the game came out"
Killer has been the unpopular role for roughly 6 years. There was a killer strike for DBD in the first year; queue times at one point were ~15 minutes for a game. That same wait for a game of VHS killed that game before it came out of Beta.
Killer buffs are almost always two steps back and one step forward. A perfect example is the changes overall to survivor and killer in the 6.0 perk rework.
Survivors forever and always get Borrowed time off the hook. This was increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Mind you that before this rework BT was a meta perk. What perk did killer get base kit? Nothing. There was no base generator slowdown perk like Corrupt or Deadlock. Now nobody ever brings BT. In short survivors have 5 perks every game.
Otz, a player with 9k hours, has stated that the last perk shake up has caused him more stress than any other point in time as a killer main. He made a video some time back saying he would "no longer be playing nice". When this is how a 9k hour player feels - what is a 90 hour player killer main supposed to feel? The answer is likely : switch to survivor or switch to a different game.
Killer is not in a healthy state when the bonus for playing killer is almost exclusively sitting on 100% bonus for playing killer.
There are exactly 2 killers that invalidate DH (Deathslinger and Legion). 3, if you want to count Pinhead with the deep wound addon. Not even insta downs counter DH. It's the other way around. People stay injured so they don't go down in 1 hit. Most killer powers give audio and visual clues for when the killer attacks. It's not that difficult to react to these (mostly).
Do you really think nobody else has tried to swing immediately? Just yesterday I had a match as Nemesis against a Feng that timed her DH perfectly every time. I tried animation fakes, I tried waiting, I tried swinging immediately but she pulled it off every time (needless to say I lost that match pretty hard). For all I knew she could have had auto DH. Then I looked at her steam profile and well... She was legit. Granted players like these are not the norm but as long as there are players like these you pretty much have no counter play.
To an extend everything in this game comes down to 'skill issue'. People tried to defend Nurse with the same argument. You can also say that Eruption was a skill issue. "Just don't ever let the killer get a down and you won't have to deal with it." It doesn't change the fact that all of these need changes / nerfs.
Saying Deathslinger and Legion completely invalidate DH is being a bit generous tbh. There's lots of scenarios where, if DH weren't a factor, a normal M1 would be the optimal play.
"Deja Vu... helps counter the Eruption 3-gen meta."
And while this is true you're wasting a perk slot to get information that I already know about every map in DBD because I have thousands of hours.
If we were to pick a map like Swamp or Abbatoir that hasn't changed in a while I could open up paint and show you where all the generator spawn points are located.
I hope that you eventually grow as a player and obtain the information that I currently have about generator spawns. You could spend several hundred games as survivor to get this information by wasting a perk slot -or you could just play a lot of killer.
At least it's much more balanced than it was before with what it did giving you distance, can't take dmg, can dh over bear traps. The perk is just an overall ball of #########
I don't know in what fantasy land this dual statment holds true, but it's not in red rank land for sure!
if you think that those killers do anything for you against good players with DH, I will respectfully, yet firmly ask you to reconsider.
what kinda works is building your killer's around the "exhausted" clause that ... btw, that's a really bad way to go because the devs DO NOT WANT these builds to work. I think they actively want the "inflicts exchaustion" perks to be as terrible as possible.
the Gen regress / eruption meta was literally the only answer a vast majority of killers had access to. Between the speed at witch survivors do gen and those crazy chase/second chance perks (DH being BY FAR the worst of them all) ... Killers could be given a fifth perk slot and red rank would probably still be survivor biaised the way it is now.
The issue isn't the killer's perks, it's never been and at the current rate, probably never will...
The issue is that this game is balanced with the assumption that survivors are trash players without looking at the bigger picture and it makes higher levels of play completely unfair for killers...
Otz is like, such a badass for having the success that he has but watching his Twitch stream quite often, I can attest that even for one of the best, the struggle is real fam.
Stay frosty killer, the long awaited nerf will soon come... it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when".
Deathslinger, Legion, Trapper and Cenobite all have powers that can destroy DH at loops.
I would argue that insta-down characters forcing people to not heal is a good thing. You are getting huge value out of that. Easier tracking, less health states, riskier plays and a bigger punishment if they ######### up.
Why are you so conceited and why do you constantly talk down to people?
This reads like a bad copypasta
Well insta-down characters are actually those who get the short end of the stick and here's why:
Hit survivor with DH using your power for the first time (or worst, with an M1 attack, think Oni)
Yay! They go down (exactly once, best case scenario)
Now it's over they have 2 health states and a SB if you hit them. Your power does nothing now and may even be detrimental to use.
The literal best thing as killer is if somehow they get healed... them not healing is THE WORST CASE SCENARIO for an insta-down killer.
Please elaborate on how you think those other killers you mentioned counter DH, I'll be happy to educate you (where I can) on how survivors cheese them too.
For Legion I can understand why you would make the argument that DH might still be effective against them. After all you mostly will not apply deep wounds to an already injured survivor. But I struggle to understand how Deathslinger would be affected by it. You'll mostly hit survivors with your power anyway and DH doesn't work against that (as far as I know). Pinhead with Original Pain does work against any kind of Endurance. It's partly why some argue that this addon is disgusting because it helps with base BT as well. With that addon on that killer you have no trouble with DH as long as you can hit your chains.
Anti-Exhaustion builds don't really work for me. I tried it a few times but overall I had very limited success with that.
I disagree though that killer perks are never an issue. Eruption was an issue. I don't think it was as overpowered as some claimed but it was extremely disgusting to play against just like DH is. If the devs won't rework DH for balancing reasons then they should at least do it for quality of life.
You forgot that insta down killers are widely balanced around the ability to down people in 1 hit.
All these 'benefits' mean very little for anyone that has enough experience to keep track of survivors without the help of perks. Even I can do that for the most part and I'm not some insane top MMR player. This is also time that these survivors do not spend healing. Meaning they get faster on gens.
Also there are killers that will use their insta down abilities to get hits even on injured survivors. Oni, Billy and Bubba come to mind. Basically with DH the way it is these killers are heavily discouraged to use their powers on injured survivors because timing DH against those is really not difficult. Instead they should just play M1 killer and hope to get into a position where they can wait it out. When that will often take way longer than hitting that survivor with the power.
Bubba chainsaws through DH, his swing doesn't stop.
Billy can get hard cucked, but, to be fair, I don't have any experience on Billy.
Oni can get kinda destroyed but he can also avoid it, easier than Billy imo.
Myers and Ghostface are both good against it. You don't want to be injured against a stealth Killer and Myers can choose who he pops his Tier III on.
Why do you INSIST that Survivors always land their DH? In reality, this is just survivorship bias. You only see the DH's that work or fail miserably. I'd say that only 1/4 of DH's actually land and out of those 1/4, I'd say 1/2 are meaningful.
Billy and Oni still get insane mobility even without being able to instant down.
Bubba, Billy and Oni all shred pallets when in their powers.
Ghostface and Myers are both stealth Killers (or psuedo-stealth) and no Survivors wants to be injured against that.
Seriously, watch the comp match Monolyth posted. They hit a ton of DH's but it literally didn't matter. They got eviscerated by that Oni.
I'm fairly certain I've seen footage of DH being used on the hit after a long drag for Deathslinger, I think there's a window for it.
I imagine it being hard to pull off but at the same time I think it's wishful thinking on my part.
I'd be hardpressed to consider Pinhead's addon not because it's untrue or anything... but because it's an addon. You don't get unlimited amounts of it (casually speaking).
So, you seem to think that but like...
DH still screw you over in the end, for all instances you mentioned.
All the mobilty or stealth in the world means NOTHING if a white shield and a SB denies you the payoff for your setup. It's a massive amount of time gained for the survivors.
In fact, It costs time and efforts for killers to use said powers, it's obviously not free. Even Nurse get screwed over if a survivor DH her cuz she get punished for skillfully landing a hit and suffers from exhaustion for it.
Long charge times are involved and skillful flicks and/or movements are always required for killers... at all times.
But it's true what they say, that E key sure is hard to press...
First 3 mins are filler. Survivors get to counter chainsaw while not healing allowing them to do gens faster and last longer in chase
I think they got tilted after the first DH, which is unfortunate.
These are clearly very good Survivors who have a lot of time in the game. Most Survivors do not (and cannot) play in that way.
This just seems like the sort of thing that people said about other perks. At the highest level, it's POSSIBLE that people can time their DH's perfectly and that you could be playing a Killer that has issues with that. But for most of the playerbase, it's not really going to happen that way.
Regardless, I suppose I'll retract what I said about Bubba, he can go through it, but perhaps it's not consistent. Still though, Lery's is a pretty bad Bubba map, I think.
I'm not talking down to you. It's a fact that DV is not a good perk for an "end tier" player. It's fine for when you are learning the game.
I think while he can go through it you realistically are using most of your charges to get the hit in the first place making the speed boost avoid the follow-up.