Killer should be harder. Period.
I'm baffled at how BHVR and people in the community think the current stats are okay. Here's my 2 cents on why 6.1.0 was not very good and this is unhealthy. This thread is a bunch of talking points on why the currents stats do,indeed show and point towards this game being killer-sided at the moment & why it shouldn't be.
Frustration & Stress In Killer Gameplay:
Killer should be harder than survivor and more stressful. That's okay and you should not make the game killer sided to stop that from happening - that's the nature of an assymetrical game. If you dont want to be stressed - play the role that has less input on the match from you as an individual. The current killrate is way too high. This game's issues were certain Killers,Perks and Maps. Not baseline buffs and nerfs.
If Trapper can't win on Cowshed vs a 4-man SWF - nerf Cowshed and buff trapper. Don't buff all Killers, ######### over the weakest and most popular role in the game - solo queue - at the same time.
MAH POWER ROLE! MAH HORROR GAME:
This has not been a horror game for a while now. It's an assymetrical 1v4 game with some horror elements. The horror aspect of this game is gone for 99% of players when they play enough of this game and start thinking about the gameplay part of the game and focus even a bit on the chase. FOR GOD'S SAKE YOU HAVE AN EDGY COMIC BOOK VILLAIN WITH A NAME SOUNDING LIKE A CATFOOD BRAND DROPPING CHEESY ONE-LINERS AS DAVID DABS ON HIM.
About you,dear killer players,really wanting to be the power role. There should not be a power role in a multiplayer game,period. This is supposed to be an asym multiplayer experience where 4 survivors working together are about equal to the Killer and whoever is playing better comes out on top. Power role experience of murdering a bunch of helpless survivors belong in singleplayer games.
BUT THE STATS ARE SKEWED - SWF ARE STILL WRECKING KILLERS:
I'll be real with you. Not really,they don't. The times where I get wrecked as Killer this patch is when I make tons of mistakes,get a really terrible map or survivors bring the most busted #########. Usually it's a result of all of the above and mostly my fault.
You're not getting destroyed because you're facing comp 4-man squads. Not even because you're facing really good 4-mans all the time. You're just making mistakes and the other side is capitalizing on them with their strong loadouts. The negative experiences Killers are facing are very often their own fault and then they're not,they're addressed by nerfing maps,certain items/addons & perks.
Is it worth compromising the majority of the playerbase's experience just because some Killers want to feel a power fantasy and not hone their craft? I don't think so.
There's still a power disbalance,though:
Correct. There is. Here's how we address the current issues:
- Buff Solo Queue players by giving them baseline Kindred and baseline Kindred for when people are slugged for longer than 16 seconds.
- Significant nerfs to medkits. They're way too strong. Brown medkits should be at 0,5x speed and Green Medkits should be at 1,25x speed at most.
- Overperforming maps should be looked at - Cowshed/Springwood/Garden of Joy - all of these maps need nerfs,they're substantially skewing the results of all games in DBD.
- Nurse needs to be significantly nerfed - she brings an infinite myriad of issues,not only ignoring any survivor skill and bringing the game down to "Is The Nurse going to ######### up or not" and making perk design problematic with dozens of perks needing to be nerfed due to her.
- Buff & Rework the most underperforming Killers,especially those without much of a chase power,or those countered by information sharing between survivors. E.G Hag,Sadako,Myers,Trapper.
- Revert the baseline cooldown & speed burst changes. - those are really,really bad and should be reverted.
- All maps should be smaller. There should be no map as large as Shelter Woods & Red Forest.
- DS should be brought to 4 seconds,with it disabling Killer power usage for 6 seconds and active on both hooks.
- A nerfed version of Corrupt Intervention blocking two gens for 30 seconds or until a survivor is downed should be introduced basekit.
CLOSING REMARKS:
The 6.1.0 patch was a respectable attempt at balancing the game. It really was. However in responding to valid pain points by Killer players - Maps,Spawns,Perks & Items. Circle Of Healing,Dead Hard,Medkits,BNPS and Cowshed 1v1s were and still are undeniably frustrating. However instead of addressing pain points directly,BHVR has addressed them by machine gunning the whole game into being Killer-Sided,with occasional SWF squads screwing over Killer players unprepared for strong loadouts due to either not running them themselves or playing Trapper.
Wanting this game to not be a 50% split between kills and esapes is unhealthy. This isn't a story mode or a singleplayer game. It's a multiplayer game - you should try to give everyone an equal chance. The top 0.01% of MMR players being able to loop a 1600 MMR Bubba is okay. It shouldn't be balanced for.
The Killer experience will always be harder and more stressfull. You're the only player on your team versus 4 survivors. That's the nature of an asym. Your hand cant be held here,because if it is - you'll ruin the other side's experience 90% of the time.
Comments
Let us know how this goes! This is very interesting to me.
As I've posted several times before, solo queue can be immensely frustrating. But not generally because of killers. When my squad gets wiped it's because my squad doesn't know how to actually play the game.
And FYI I've been playing lots of survivor this evening. I just had 3 teammates downed by a non-hatchet throwing huntress. Within 50 seconds.
No she did not have the iri add-on.
Meanwhile my killer MMR means I'm pitted against survivors who really know what they're doing, and who most certainly do not need a buff.
Yes, solo queue is a cluster####, but nerfing killers again isn't the answer. Do we really want to bring back the days of deranking, smurfing and hardcore invincible swfs absolutely dominating the higher ranks?
Is it so outrageous to suggest survivors learn they need to do gens to escape and that running headlong at the killer might be a bad idea?
Maybe save people before they go into second stage on first hook? Don't DC on first down?
What sort of changes can the devs even make to give those survivors a chance beyond gimping killers into utter uselessness?
How do you buff people into knowing how to play the game? All the balance changes in the world mean jack if survivors won't touch generators.
So
Play horror game long enough- its no longer defined as a horror game
lol
Did nobody like here,read this thread at all? Kindred and status icons.
but nerfing killers again isn't the answer
this thread doesn't really suggest a killer nerf though,does it now. it's just a different killer buff.
I was talking about these nebulous killer buffs that everyone says will come after boosting solo to SWF levels. Apparently .2 second reduction in basic actions is a bridge too far so I want to hear them
Try reading.
Uh. Not sure what exactly you mean by saying some people shouldn't take statistics, given better education of a populace is literally always a good thing. I sure hope you aren't trying to unironically say those statistics prove any meaningful point whatsoever.
Just ignore me.
It's only stressful for Killer's who doesn't use their brains, Everyone's practically playing "Chase the survivor till the gates open strat" when everyone is supposed to "Stop the gens from popping early", I always play against killers who doesn't know to juggle objectives.
OP is right, The maps are broken and powerful killers are still getting buffed while weak killers are still being power creeped.
and It's obvious everyone reacted on reflex because they didn't bother to read the whole post and always feel offended.
Oh the amount of people who saw the title and reacted is enormous
That DS buff is wayyyy too much. DS TWICE in a ROW?? Are you crazy? Buffs shouldn't be given to previously meta perks, what should really happen is a buff to basekit and a speed boost when using DS. Stunning the Killer more often for longer in more situations is really bad design, and two chances to hold your DS is just stupid.
• Nerf the dying speed when a Killer is 16 meters to a hook by 100% (120 seconds per hook stage, meaning Survivors could do over 2 gens before going for the rescue.)
• Nerf Nurse I like, nerf Blight's entire purple+ addon set. Nerf Leatherface's chainsaw around a hooked person to only damage for one health state near a hook in this range, meaning trades could happen without it being a complete loss for the healthy rescuer. Maybe even make Leatherface instantly tantrum when someone gets unhooked near him, which would be lore accurate with the movies.,
• Make Basekit BT last 30 seconds, and 10 seconds after being unhooked make the Survivor have no collision and hitbox with the Killer. This would discourage tunneling because Survivors wouldn't be able to weaponize their Endurance status effect after being unhooked, and anti-tunneling mechanics shouldn't be able to be used as a mechanic to also weaken the Killer entirely throughout the course of the whole game and weaponized to bodyblock for the rescuer of the unhooked Survivor.
• Remove unhook healthy grabs from the game, gen and chest opening healthy grabs are fine.
• I don't like the chase nerfs, considering most Survivors use Prove Thyself I don't think this is some crazy necessary addition, but I would adjust weapon cleaning animations per Killer. Like Nurse could have a 3.5 second cleaning animation, but then Killers like Freddy and Sadako keep their 2.7 second cleaning animation and same with speed bursts.
Depends how you define winning. It wasn´t to bad. Escaping also wasn´t the main goal, since sometimes one of us would go back and die in an attempt to rescue someone else instead of just leaving.
I can tag you, if you want. Or we try to form a 4 man SWF squad.
I´m really open to play with people from the forum.
I mean.. what's the issue with DS though? In it's current design the survivor either uses it when tunneled..or wastes their time doing nothing in the killer's face.
admitting you didn't read past the title is not the dunk you think it is
like legit everyone whining about my DS change,come right up - how does it affect you unless you're a hard tunneling giga sweatlord? mmmm?
seals marine copypasta moment ngl
very interesting and enticing that you and your supposed god team can go on winstreaks,however we dont balance for the top 1%. sorry
If you're on death hook, how is it hard tunneling? Like you have an extra hit you can take and you whine about not having DS on top of that??
How is it affecting you if you're not tunneling 15 seconds post unhook please do tell me? Either the survivor does nothing and hides or they have no DS. Why are you whining so hard about killing tunneling?
the tunnelers are rearing their heads here complaining about DS
buds we all can see you
As long as you're alive as a Survivor, you're a threat to me as a Killer. Why wouldn't I try to get you out of the game early? Would you do gens slower for me as a Killer to help me keep up if I wasn't doing so well???? Why would I respect your "don't tunnel please" if I get literally nothing out of it.
You can talk directly to people here by the way, it's immature to act like you're addressing some grand audience lol.
how is a survivor with DS up (which means they're not doing the objective) a threat to you?
also i dont care if you respect it. if you tunnel and get hit by DS that's your skill issue
From your personal perspective you are doing everything right. From the point of view of the game, this is problem. Tunneling is easy and cheap to do, yet it provides huge benefit. That is problem. You should have cheap tactics, but it should provide low benefit. And then you should have hard things to execute or risky thing to do, that would provide huge benefit if done right. But cheap and huge benefit is problem from game's point of view
In my opinion is: if a long message about changes on the game is based on the starting assumption: "the killer role should be more stressful than survivor", my times simply worth more!
I do not agree, i think this is dumb, the message is biased by a person that wants to promote his personal view of the game (not an issue, i've tried to do the same but I accepted mine was unpopular idea), then I prefer go and read other messages and other proposals.
BUT OK! Lets try to keep reading for a while: "If Trapper can't win on Cowshed vs a 4-man SWF - nerf Cowshed and buff trapper. Don't buff all Killers, ######### over the weakest and most popular role in the game - solo queue - at the same time."
.... the issue was ALL THE KILLER WERE PERFORMING BAD! Even nurse! That is OP and should be nerfed. This wasn't an issue about "trapper in cowshed" but "all the killers everywhere".
I simply can't do it. I do not agree with anything here.
How is 49% performing bad? I mean - sure. Killers should have gained a buff - to make it even. 1% or 2% quicker pallet break & cd reduction after hit might make it to that ideal 50% - because everyone should have a chance to win the game. If one role is more likely to win, then the game is unfair to the other role. And as killing/surviving is the metric of who won, then we should aim to make this metric balanced (making it equal chance).
As for "stressful" killer role. I have alternative word that works exactly the same. Killers should be more "exciting" role to play (because you are "always" in chase and not getting a break with boring M1 on generator).
I don't care if the killers are strong, the problem is how boring doing survivor objectives, making generators slow and that killers can reset them quickly makes games a bore, Even worse when a survivor dies or from DC at the beginning of the game, it becomes almost impossible to complete all the generators, this game has a serious problem, it is advantageous for survivors only when the four are alive, now if the killer kills 2 and have 3 or 2 generators to finish, it's almost certain that a survivor will die so the matches get very repetitive and predictable in the most beginner and medium levels of the game
When they decided to buff the killers they said the killer were "not killing enough". Now killers are killing more. Maybe a little too much! This is the right environment to promote things like the nurse nerf and the buff to solo.
But the assumption: "nerf killers because it should be a more stressful role" it is dumb and not worth of my time. With assumptions of this leverage you can promote ANY NERF! because it is based on feeling and not on statistics.
have you noticed that every subject that a main surv talks about the main killers already talk in "SWF"? and why are SWFs so commented on? probably because they can communicate by means that they don't have in the game, so the problem is not the SWF, but the use of resources that don't belong to the game, just as there are killer players who use crosshair on the hunter, there are people who uses image filter to see things more clearly in dark maps
In my opinion, the biggest problem with DBD is the mechanics that the guys use that don't belong to the game, I personally think the devs should put, native voice chat, crosshair option, and brightness option, and then analyze which side of players was most benefited or harmed and make adjustments
It's not just for us to blame the "SWF" and close our eyes to these problems that exist in the game, in the past there were people who used stretched screens, some did it to gain better FPS, but there were those who did it to have advantages in matches, so the devs solved it, now it is necessary to solve the problems that i mentioned
The buffs and nerfs that DBD receives ignores the guys who play in communication because this feature is not native to the game, that's why SWF will always be the strongest part of the game
Generally agreed. The reason should not be that killers should be more stressful/exciting role. Also I would be happy for some MMR-based balancing. Like if you have 4 brand new survivors against 1 brand new killer - there is NO WAY that killer will win. Like actual chance for killer loosing is mainly based on his internet connection (and dropping out of game) instead of "skill".
On the other hand - best and most "profesional" players (meaning 0.001% of all players) tend to be survivor sided. That is also not ok. To combat this, there should be less high-skill-expression survivor things (like perk hyperfocus, tiny time-window for flash save) and more for killers instead. Also easy to win tactics (camp/tunnel) should be nerfed (give much less value out of it) so that beginners are not steamrolled by killers all the time.
These things would actually make the game more balanced over whole MMR range
Lol im fine with it i hope we get 30sec bt base kit. But it just seems a bit unreal atm how unbeatable survivors get. But if thats the way bhvr what the game to be i take very happy.
You have the title wrong bro - survivor should be harder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86VgOyKm9HU
More then 3 out of 5 games are now killer win (61%). Basement Bubba can still catch one and go make a coffee and still get a kill. How is that hard?
Also - for your video. First 2 pallets were literal stuns - how is that a predrop? You could argue pallet camping, but predrop? Predrop was what jake did on the game.
Also you can counter that stuff. Just today I had a game with legion - he gave the game offering and took addons to break pallet after vault and recharge power after stun + enduring & spirit fury. A sidenote - on the game there are like 2 ok loops (LT) in whole map. Everything else are bad loops on it's own (freezer window, monitor room window 2 floors above basement) or total trash loops (like window next to exit gate that can't be fast vaulted or vaulted back) or huge number of pallets. 0 things you can do in that setup.
Or you can take T2 nemesis. Or nurse. Or iri addon blight. Or pallet wraith. Or any other option you have.
Or you can find yourself on shelter woods with 6 pallets for whole map (yes, under bad RNG it's possible to get only 6 pallets for whole map)
The solution of only play good killers is not acceptable.
The most frustrating part to me is how the basekit changes went. I've been a killer main for 5 years and the most needed change was to make your basekit kick and gen regression better. This way, someone using a full gen loadout isn't any stronger, but a killer using nothing was atleast more viable. It would've opened some ACTUAL meta shift because I could bring more fun-intended chase perks or goofy perks without feeling like I was going to lose without bringing that top stuff. Now, a nurse running a super oppressive build is even easier. That should have never been a thing.
Maps, perks, and SINGULAR killers were the biggest issue. Again, I'm not against all the basekit killer changes. Things like the kicking and recovery buff were good, because they mainly only help the weaker killers and not the top dogs anyways. However, the 10 extra seconds on gens was the overkill, and so was making gen builds even more oppressive.
At this point, I think the next step that needs to be taken is normalizing gen times. Start removing or reworking things that make gens faster or slower, and start toning down gen regression perks as well.
They've made too many changes to basekit DBD in 6.1.0 when they really should've addressed more individual issues.
Personally I don't mind the 90 second gens too much,I just don't like how oppressive the cooldown is on Killers with Mobility or Ranged attacks, especially with STBFL.
then please,go tell BHVR to buff the bad killers.
overall honestly,if you're playing trapper which is honestly the equivalent of playing perkless as survivor,you shouldnt expect to win every match of yours - you're bringing one of the weakest killers,why do you expect to win against opponents without the weakest loadouts?
No killer playing their best should be thought of as being so low that they may as well be a perkless survivor.
Factually they are tho. Perks on Survivor aren't that insane.
Oh ok, then you are only trying to troll people, attacking them because they are not native english speakers? Ok. I was right. This topic is not worth of my time. See ya.
Closing this here.
Just a reminder to learn to accept criticism and avoid insulting other users just because you disagree with their opinion.