It’s not easier. Actually I would argue it’s harder as they have to make sure to not make contradicting lore and it still needing to feel connected etc.
also, it’s already been confirmed there will be new, original LGBTQ+ characters introduced in the future.
Not to contribute to derailment but I'm getting a lot out of the Wraith/Nurse ship being regarded as canon as a byproduct of this thread.
As to the lingering piddly handwringing regarding revealing David as gay rather than creating a gay character from the ground up - why not both?
They didn't want the first LGBT+ character to be a new character, as it would come across as a cheap after thought. "Oh we need a gay character? Lets just make the next new one gay, they can be the token gay!"
So making an existing character gay, with believable lore to back it up, was their gesture to say "see, we're not doing this just tick a box, we want to do it right."
From hereon out though, they could make new characters LGBT+, the gesture has already been made.
They didn't want the first LGBT+ character to be a new character, as it would come across as a cheap after thought. "Oh we need a gay character? Lets just make the next new one gay, they can be the token gay!"
So making an existing character gay, with believable lore to back it up, was their gesture to say "see, we're not doing this just tick a box, we want to do it right."
From hereon out though, they could make new characters LGBT+, the gesture has already been made.
Oh I know! I'm super on board with the way they introduced everything related to David - I more mean to say that folks who frame this discussion as some mutually exclusive matter seem to think that this was the one shot DBD ever had for inclusivity.
others might say it wasn’t such a big or significant thing to add anyways and should have been part of the game as long as heterosexual relationships were without making a big deal out of it. And it’s those against inclusion that always make a big deal out of it.
I have been trying very hard to express a happy face. Turns out it is very hard to draw a happy expression when you only have 1 eye to draw on and no photoshop skills whatsoever.
As a byproduct of messing around with MS paint, however, I ended up with Bird With Eyeshadow.
Anyhoo. I'm wildly derailing this thread. I'm out of control~
I have been trying very hard to express a happy face. Turns out it is very hard to draw a happy expression when you only have 1 eye to draw on and no photoshop skills whatsoever.
As a byproduct of messing around with MS paint, however, I ended up with Bird With Eyeshadow.
Some gay people out (notably older ones) have had straight relationships before. It could take time to discover your true sexuality or perhaps society pressured them into acting straight in front of others.
So like from a writing standpoint it may just be a retconn, but it would still make sense even if it wasnt a retconn.
In that case the person would be bissexual, unless they didnt had sex and was just fake
His tome would contradict the idea that it was a retcon. It sounds like he did have a girlfriend but didn't actually love her. It happens. I actually know several gay guys who said before they realized they were gay they had a girlfriend. It is entirely possible for both to be true.
If the "gay" guy gets turned on and has sex with his "girlfriend" he is bi, david king would be Bi with a tendency to like more men.
A gay man having sex with a woman doesn't make him bi. You can have sex with someone you aren't attracted to, you just won't enjoy it lol
It’s like that one person in an older thread arguing they could just go out and have sex with a man even though he is happily married to a woman just to show a random person that sexuality is just a choice and all.
A gay man having sex with a woman doesn't make him bi. You can have sex with someone you aren't attracted to, you just won't enjoy it lol
Getting hard when in contact with a female body enough for you to reach orgasm dont seen gay to me (unless you are bi, of course), the same reason i would not be able to have sex with a guy for the same reason.
It’s like that one person in an older thread arguing they could just go out and have sex with a man even though he is happily married to a woman just to show a random person that sexuality is just a choice and all.
If the "gay" guy gets turned on and has sex with his "girlfriend" he is bi, david king would be Bi with a tendency to like more men.
In that case the person would be bissexual, unless they didnt had sex and was just fake
I was in an 11 month relationship with a girl. I'm a gay man. This is flat out wrong. Please stop spreading misinformation about queer experiences while talking over queer people about their experiences, thank you.
There's never any way of doing this that doesn't 'feel lame' for some people.
You can't say an existing character is gay because then it's a retcon, you can't introduce a brand new character and say they're gay because now it's tokenism and that's all that character exists for. There will always be something to find fault in.
Yet heterosexual characters never have any problems like this. You can introduce an opposite-sex partner for any character and nobody bats an eye. Which just goes to show that this representation is far from being unnecessary.
Until we can all go "hey that's neat, moving on" whenever a character is revealed to be anything other than heteronormative, then it doesn't matter how it's implemented, it needs to be implemented.
The very fact that months after the update this is still being debated, is just all kinds of disappointing.
I'm just quoting this for truth. Seriously, there will never be a time when it'll be ok for a character to be LGBT in a video game without people throwing hissy fits about it.
Getting hard when in contact with a female body enough for you to reach orgasm dont seen gay to me (unless you are bi, of course), the same reason i would not be able to have sex with a guy for the same reason.
I'm gay. I came out at 13 but ended up still having sex with a woman when I was 18 (to "try it out"). I'm still gay, even if I was able to get "excited". Bodily functions are not something that can be consciously controlled and if someone is touching a dude in certain ways, he's going to get happy, regardless of what his brain is telling him. That's also how male r-word happens.
There's never any way of doing this that doesn't 'feel lame' for some people.
You can't say an existing character is gay because then it's a retcon, you can't introduce a brand new character and say they're gay because now it's tokenism and that's all that character exists for. There will always be something to find fault in.
Yet heterosexual characters never have any problems like this. You can introduce an opposite-sex partner for any character and nobody bats an eye. Which just goes to show that this representation is far from being unnecessary.
Until we can all go "hey that's neat, moving on" whenever a character is revealed to be anything other than heteronormative, then it doesn't matter how it's implemented, it needs to be implemented.
The very fact that months after the update this is still being debated, is just all kinds of disappointing.
That's not really true, there's ways to handle things like that - the reason people complain is because these characters and representation is not handled in a mature and natural way.
Look at Tracer, poster-girl of Overwatch. I don't think anyone has valid complaints against her, or her being a lesbian because of the fact that it's not done in an obnoxious or stereotypical way. But by the same writer, Soldier was revealed as gay and this was heavily criticised because it was revealed on twitter of all things - it felt impersonal and like a token because it was never incorporated or hinted at prior.
Which is the same case for David, a heavily masculine British guy that had no prior hints or nods towards an identity crisis or questioning of his sexuality, and the only kind of 'sexual' thing we get is the fact that he had a girlfriend.
It's easy to sit and say people are just throwing terminology around, but be real with yourself for a second, a game where lore has been told through tomes, and diary entries, specifically in game - was David's reveal in-line with every other lore piece?
There were always implications that David had a problematic relationship with his parents without the reason being explicitly stated and other stuff in the lore that can be explained with him being gay.
it would have been a ret-con if it was stated he was straight before. But that wasn’t the case.
if people want to complain about ret-cons, then they should complain about Legions tome or i think Nurse tome, which actually ret-conned lore. But these people actually only have a problem with ret-conns when it’s about LGBTQ+ topics. I am not wondering why..
Without the reason ever being stated? The implication of why his relationship has been rocky has always been very obvious and it's because David was far too aggressive growing up, and entangle himself in fights. I think David's lore is pretty straight-forward, given that I've grown up in England too. He was kid, with a lot of potential, but a lot of trouble that trailed after him.
Not to mention that it is explicitly told in his lore that his father was abusive too. I don't pay attention to many of the killers, legion being one of those but I HAVE complained on the forums a handful of times about Nurse's lore too, not sure what your follow-up argument to that will be
Without the reason ever being stated? The implication of why his relationship has been rocky has always been very obvious and it's because David was far too aggressive growing up, and entangle himself in fights. I think David's lore is pretty straight-forward, given that I've grown up in England too. He was kid, with a lot of potential, but a lot of trouble that trailed after him.
Not to mention that it is explicitly told in his lore that his father was abusive too. I don't pay attention to many of the killers, legion being one of those but I HAVE complained on the forums a handful of times about Nurse's lore too, not sure what your follow-up argument to that will be
isnt it actually explained that part of his aggressiveness came from him struggling with himself and his sexuality? Haven’t actually read the newest tome. But sounds to me like they have built upon his existing lore very well and even expanded it meaningfully. The mention of a girlfriend in one word alone always felt weird and abrupt without any meaning. With the revealing of him being gay etc now it doesn’t seem that random anymore and actually can be seen as a hint!
His father being abusive has nothing to do with anything at all. Except for the whole father/parents problems being way too much the focus in plenty of DbDs lore.
if you actually complained/gave criticism on retconns before: good on you! I also didn’t mean to directly attack you when I quoted you, I meant it more generally as you also phrased it more generally and not as your set opinion? May have interpreted it wrong though.
If the "gay" guy gets turned on and has sex with his "girlfriend" he is bi, david king would be Bi with a tendency to like more men.
Can you prove he was "turned on" by his girlfriend or is that just an assumption based on the fact that he had a girlfriend? Personally, I've never seen it anywhere mentioned what David did with his ex girlfriend, only that he had one.
Edit: I went back and read his original tome story and original lore, there is no mention of him even LOVING his girlfriend, just that he had one at some point in time.
"His ex has moved on and she doesn't want to see his face. Something about being a shithead." this is the only mention of a girlfriend and actually, it doesn't even explicitly say it's a girlfriend. It just says "ex". The word "girlfriend" never appears anywhere in his tome story or base lore.
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Comments
i am alas gay
You fool. You feel for the bait
At this moment Mille Bobby brown has not found your location and is on her way to get you.
Stay where you are :)
me omw back to his country so i can spend my last moments with my bfget that fire exit door im off 🕳️🚪👩🏻🦯this was more thematic than i thought it would be were no longer together lmao
Just a quick reminder to keep the discussion civil and respectful.
People's identity and sexuality are not something "weird", representation is important and we'll keep advocating for it.
Hey that Birb is sitting next to my Viper
I like to say Birb is the Pilot of it lmao
You'll find a few more on my wall now! Requests are welcome (provided I can do it in MS paint)
Happy birbposting!
Yeees! Now we got all the power.
missing some kind of happy birb like this 😊/🥳
I love the glowing eye. xD
Not to contribute to derailment but I'm getting a lot out of the Wraith/Nurse ship being regarded as canon as a byproduct of this thread.
As to the lingering piddly handwringing regarding revealing David as gay rather than creating a gay character from the ground up - why not both?
It’s gonna be both anyways. The devs already confirmed there will be more LGBTQ+ characters added - both existing and new characters possible.
All they did was say he was gay.
That is bottom of the barrel easy.
Christ yall are easy to please lol
They didn't want the first LGBT+ character to be a new character, as it would come across as a cheap after thought. "Oh we need a gay character? Lets just make the next new one gay, they can be the token gay!"
So making an existing character gay, with believable lore to back it up, was their gesture to say "see, we're not doing this just tick a box, we want to do it right."
From hereon out though, they could make new characters LGBT+, the gesture has already been made.
Oh I know! I'm super on board with the way they introduced everything related to David - I more mean to say that folks who frame this discussion as some mutually exclusive matter seem to think that this was the one shot DBD ever had for inclusivity.
Some might say ‚easy to please‘
others might say it wasn’t such a big or significant thing to add anyways and should have been part of the game as long as heterosexual relationships were without making a big deal out of it. And it’s those against inclusion that always make a big deal out of it.
I have been trying very hard to express a happy face. Turns out it is very hard to draw a happy expression when you only have 1 eye to draw on and no photoshop skills whatsoever.
As a byproduct of messing around with MS paint, however, I ended up with Bird With Eyeshadow.
Anyhoo. I'm wildly derailing this thread. I'm out of control~
I am pretty sure gay birb stands above the forums rules (and the law) - so you are fine ✨
And Birb With Eyeshadow as a result excuses anything anyway
In that case the person would be bissexual, unless they didnt had sex and was just fake
If the "gay" guy gets turned on and has sex with his "girlfriend" he is bi, david king would be Bi with a tendency to like more men.
I now wish the charm in game had glowing eyes.
You need to see what Rizzo has posted on my wall
It’s like that one person in an older thread arguing they could just go out and have sex with a man even though he is happily married to a woman just to show a random person that sexuality is just a choice and all.
weird people out there. I love it.
Getting hard when in contact with a female body enough for you to reach orgasm dont seen gay to me (unless you are bi, of course), the same reason i would not be able to have sex with a guy for the same reason.
You know is not, a gay guy would atleast have sex once with the opposite gender and that is it, the rest would be just appearence.
Sexuality is not a choice, i never said that.
In that case the person would be bissexual, unless they didnt had sex and was just fake
I was in an 11 month relationship with a girl. I'm a gay man. This is flat out wrong. Please stop spreading misinformation about queer experiences while talking over queer people about their experiences, thank you.
Every DBD character is LGBT+ until confirmed otherwise
I'm just quoting this for truth. Seriously, there will never be a time when it'll be ok for a character to be LGBT in a video game without people throwing hissy fits about it.
I hate humans sometimes.
I'm gay. I came out at 13 but ended up still having sex with a woman when I was 18 (to "try it out"). I'm still gay, even if I was able to get "excited". Bodily functions are not something that can be consciously controlled and if someone is touching a dude in certain ways, he's going to get happy, regardless of what his brain is telling him. That's also how male r-word happens.
Sorry for the double post, yall.
That's not really true, there's ways to handle things like that - the reason people complain is because these characters and representation is not handled in a mature and natural way.
Look at Tracer, poster-girl of Overwatch. I don't think anyone has valid complaints against her, or her being a lesbian because of the fact that it's not done in an obnoxious or stereotypical way. But by the same writer, Soldier was revealed as gay and this was heavily criticised because it was revealed on twitter of all things - it felt impersonal and like a token because it was never incorporated or hinted at prior.
Which is the same case for David, a heavily masculine British guy that had no prior hints or nods towards an identity crisis or questioning of his sexuality, and the only kind of 'sexual' thing we get is the fact that he had a girlfriend.
It's easy to sit and say people are just throwing terminology around, but be real with yourself for a second, a game where lore has been told through tomes, and diary entries, specifically in game - was David's reveal in-line with every other lore piece?
Without the reason ever being stated? The implication of why his relationship has been rocky has always been very obvious and it's because David was far too aggressive growing up, and entangle himself in fights. I think David's lore is pretty straight-forward, given that I've grown up in England too. He was kid, with a lot of potential, but a lot of trouble that trailed after him.
Not to mention that it is explicitly told in his lore that his father was abusive too. I don't pay attention to many of the killers, legion being one of those but I HAVE complained on the forums a handful of times about Nurse's lore too, not sure what your follow-up argument to that will be
The right aproach
isnt it actually explained that part of his aggressiveness came from him struggling with himself and his sexuality? Haven’t actually read the newest tome. But sounds to me like they have built upon his existing lore very well and even expanded it meaningfully. The mention of a girlfriend in one word alone always felt weird and abrupt without any meaning. With the revealing of him being gay etc now it doesn’t seem that random anymore and actually can be seen as a hint!
His father being abusive has nothing to do with anything at all. Except for the whole father/parents problems being way too much the focus in plenty of DbDs lore.
if you actually complained/gave criticism on retconns before: good on you! I also didn’t mean to directly attack you when I quoted you, I meant it more generally as you also phrased it more generally and not as your set opinion? May have interpreted it wrong though.
Can you prove he was "turned on" by his girlfriend or is that just an assumption based on the fact that he had a girlfriend? Personally, I've never seen it anywhere mentioned what David did with his ex girlfriend, only that he had one.
Edit: I went back and read his original tome story and original lore, there is no mention of him even LOVING his girlfriend, just that he had one at some point in time.
"His ex has moved on and she doesn't want to see his face. Something about being a shithead." this is the only mention of a girlfriend and actually, it doesn't even explicitly say it's a girlfriend. It just says "ex". The word "girlfriend" never appears anywhere in his tome story or base lore.
Always gotta love these threads. Seeing people debate over an easily answered question.