Why do some people say that Dead Hard is a fair perk?

Breadn

I know that this is a dead horse, but there are STILL people who think Dead Hard is fair, even against fatigue-based killers such as Nurse or Billy.

There are people who say you can bait out Dead Hard for distance, or bait it out as Nurse when in fatigue.

Do these people not play killer, are they trolling, or is there something I'm not getting?

If you think Dead Hard is counterable and fair, please tell me why.

Hilidaris

@Souplet said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974432#Comment_2974432

Here some exemples of builds i run

nurse : tinkerer ruin ud retribution

Legion: bbq jolt ruin pain resonnance

Oni : ruin infectious brutal strength bbq

Doctor : huntress lumlaby distressing unerving presence merciless storm

Clown : jolt, stbfl, discordance, pop

Deathslinger : ruin ud stbfl bbq

I could go on since i play all killers and never play the same twice in a row.

So i have mostly 2 gen regression by build. And its barely enough to cope with second chances survivors get

I do not struggle in chase at my mmr and since i encounter 70% of dh (i keep track of survivors perks in a google sheet), it means i should be in at least the 70th percentile given the stats devs gave.

The part where i struggle tho is when i chase a survivor, then i win the chase but they extend it for an extra 30 seconds by pressing e.

Meanwhile, gens are popping and im too far comited to drop the chase

Btw you keep bringing ds, bt and ub in the equation whereas i never talked about these. Im fine with ds and bt since i mostly always try to go for the most hooks and i even think they should be basekit at some extent, but i guess you just assume that every killers is a filthy tunneler by nature.

Talking about exhaustion perks, i dont have or want to counter sb, balanced, lithe, im fine with these and i can play around. So yes, picking blood echo is only for dead hard players. And its not even that good or reliant, its a bad perk.

I truly think im fine where i stand and that im not biaised on the dh problem. You on the other hand, seem to try to justify that its not broken af by any means. Hell, you even played the "tunnelers killers" card.

Maybe you should question yourself on this :

"It seems most people out there are complaining about dead hard and its a fact that dead hard is by very far the most used perk. Am i wrong ?"

big soup here

SkeletalElite

They say its fair because they don't play killer

jajay119

Dead hard isn't fair when 3 people bring it.... but neither is camping and tunnelling. Until survivors perceive that type of behaviour reduced or addressed they will keep bringing it.

I've never really used dead heard. Can't be bothered wasting a slot on it but I see why other people bring it when we have consistent matches where killers face camp at 5 gens.

'NERFING THE META' is an exercise in BHVR looking like they're doing something when they're not. If all the meta gets changed or nerfed it will still be the meta just in a new way. BHVR really need to be looking at why so many more survivors are using DH now and why so many killers feel the need to bring regression perks and camp. But that's ACTUALLY doing something to improve the QOL and that would take far too much time from incessantly creating new killers and survivors that no one wants or has asked for.

Souplet

@jajay119 said:

Dead hard isn't fair when 3 people bring it.... but neither is camping and tunnelling. Until survivors perceive that type of behaviour reduced or addressed they will keep bringing it.

I've never really used dead heard. Can't be bothered wasting a slot on it but I see why other people bring it when we have consistent matches where killers face camp at 5 gens.

'NERFING THE META' is an exercise in BHVR looking like they're doing something when they're not. If all the meta gets changed or nerfed it will still be the meta just in a new way. BHVR really need to be looking at why so many more survivors are using DH now and why so many killers feel the need to bring regression perks and camp. But that's ACTUALLY doing something to improve the QOL and that would take far too much time from incessantly creating new killers and survivors that no one wants or has asked for.

Please tell me what dead hard has to do with camping

I genuinely want to know the connection there

Laurie268

@Barbarossa2020 said:

And there are some people that think you need a ar 15 to defend your house as well.

There will always be extreme people who will argue anything is rational.

Why are you comparing guns against DH? Wth? You should keep your politics out of this

MrMori

I agree that against Blight and Nurse DH is one of the few ways survivors can counter a good killer playing them. Like mentioned, they absolutely need nerfs to their addons, and I'd say some basekit changes too.

For Nurse I'd bring back fatigue after being stunned in your power. It's just depressing to outplay a Nurse with a stun during her blink but to be rewarded with her blinking through the pallet and downing you. Nerf the range and recharge addons. Fix the bug that makes the range addons increase the speed of your blink. If you really want to gut her you could make her attack a special attack, but that would only kill build variety. Yes, Nurse has lots of useless Addons, but some killer powers are just so strong that having good addons is too much. Try to rework her addons to be more like alternate playstyles rather than direct upgrades.

For Blight, they're removing hugtech which will make him less viable at super high MMR. But his addons need a look too. I love the variety, they're just overtuned. Tune them down. If you really wanted to gut him, you could decrease the base rush distance by like 10% so his mobility isn't as insane as it is now.

Nerfing these killers would make room for nerfs to survivor meta perks and slowdown as well since chases on average will be faster.

neb

@Predated said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/325695/why-do-some-people-say-that-dead-hard-is-a-fair-perk

Here's why DH is fair:

Nurse can stack 2 recharge addons and basically give you 0 distance to gain. Without DH, you're not really gonna last.

Nurse also can use an addon for 3 blinks and use the best recharge addon to compensate the negative, which basically gives her 3 blinks, aka, give you 0 distance. Without DH, you're not really gonna last

Blight with Alchemist Ring. Without DH, you're gonna be downed fast. That's not even talking about hug tech.

That is not even talking about perks, as a lot of these killers either build to slug or build to slowdown the game. As long as those exist, DH must remain in the game.

In any other case, DH isnt really a fair perk, but the same logic goes behind DS. You dont know what the killer is or what they are planning to do. You dont know if the killer is gonna tunnel or not. But if they do and you dont have DS, then you're screwed for no real reason. Since you cant know if it's a Nurse with double recharge, it's always best to equip DH just in case.

As for counterability, well, technically yes? Blood Echo practically negates any exhaustion perk for some time, and if you really hate DH you can stack Blood Echo and Fearmonger. It's quite the scary combo for killers who dont really need gen regression, but only lose due to DH. I'd imagine Oni would love Blood Echo and Fearmonger these days.

I'd say only blood echo, fearmonger is a joke. Just walk off the exhaustion. I just want a perk that consistently give exhaustion for a while (20 seconds or 40 seconds), without having some really niche requirements (survivors needing to be injured while also not having the perk on cooldown). If there's a perk that negates exhaustion easily while not having some super niche requirements, ill gladly run it a lot of the time.

But at the same time, strong/meta perks are just bandaid fixes, and they encourage less build variety. Hence why I hate meta perks as well as the state of the game right now.

DeliciousFood

1/ To bait.

2/ Because people love to use busted ######### to win easily so they lie about it.

3/ Current states of Blight and Nurse makes it a necessity to gain time for your team. So they defend it for that reason.

4/ To bait even harder.

5/ They are genuinely ignorant.

I think it should be removed personally, and then these super killers can get addressed properly.

Brimp

@MrMori said:

Because it has boosted them into a skill bracket they don't belong in, so they feel reliant on it.

It's similar to stacking four slowdown perks and then still losing, chances are you didn't do very well in chase, aka you're not skilled enough to catch your opponents in time. Dead Hard is stronger than any single regression perk though.

Except with 4 slowdowns on someone like clown or trapper is STILL not enough to beat a good 4man.

Lekitzul

Honestly, I don't find Dead Hard that bad, usually if you know they have it, just keep chasing them, they'll splurge it, chase em for a second longer and knock em down. They already have to be hurt to use it anyways, so it's dicey. The only time I see it useful is running to the gate, you barely make it and use it to escape.

Brimp

@Lekitzul said:

Honestly, I don't find Dead Hard that bad, usually if you know they have it, just keep chasing them, they'll splurge it, chase em for a second longer and knock em down. They already have to be hurt to use it anyways, so it's dicey. The only time I see it useful is running to the gate, you barely make it and use it to escape.

"Chase them for a second longer" I assume you don't go against many survivors that use it for distance to a window or pallet huh...

Lekitzul

@Brimp said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2976647#Comment_2976647

"Chase them for a second longer" I assume you don't go against many survivors that use it for distance to a window or pallet huh...

I see a lot of people using it in open spaces. Most of the people I go against don't really use it at a good time anyways. XD But if you hate windows/pallets, just have a perk that helps fights against it, like Bamboozle and it won't be so bad.

Raccoon

@WesCravenFan said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2974314#Comment_2974314

Funny, I literally see comments about single day on the reddit page about now "this is a killer sided echo chamber".

You only unlock "Killer Forum Sight" after 10,000+ posts here.

Brimp

@Lekitzul said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2976650#Comment_2976650

I see a lot of people using it in open spaces. Most of the people I go against don't really use it at a good time anyways. XD But if you hate windows/pallets, just have a perk that helps fights against it, like Bamboozle and it won't be so bad.

Bamboozle does nothing. Once they realize you're gonna bot vault block the window they'll just hold W and even with cruel limits is when a gen is completed within a certain radius of that gen. No windows or pallets can be near that gen.

Either way if I did do what you said... just would work cause gens would still fly too fast by the time I downed them.

Chusan

@Lekitzul said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2976650#Comment_2976650

I see a lot of people using it in open spaces. Most of the people I go against don't really use it at a good time anyways. XD But if you hate windows/pallets, just have a perk that helps fights against it, like Bamboozle and it won't be so bad.

Played killer yet?

Icaurs

Because certain killers and addons are so strong that dead hard becomes fair. Against base doctors. Yes, it's unfair. Against high stimulus and iridescent queen. Yes it's balanced

Chusan

should impletement a point system like you got a total of 8 points for all 4 perks.. deadhard cost 4 points. e.g