What's one big change you'd make to Sadako to make her truly viable or closer to that?
I'd say mine personally would be to add disadvantages to condemnation. A different effect for each stack. like maybe stack 1 inflicts hemorrhage, 2 inflicts mangled, 3 inflicts blindness, 4 slows survivors by 2%, 5 reduces generator repair speed by 10%, 6 inflicts exposed, 7 is normal murder one
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instadown, who cares, dead game.
Remove that stupid ######### Lullaby.
Kill CoH.
alive enough for you to make a new forums account
Old newspaper and bloody fingernails addons as base. No lullaby.
Maybe make it to picking up a tape drops your item, I know alot of people want a better condemned but I feel that's the worst way to go about it. You want your tvs active for that mobility, the last thing you want is all your tvs turned off as a basic attack killer. (Although they can make it so only when she teleports it turns the tv off, so if you take a tape she doesnt get even weaker)
Condemnation builds up passively
Yeah but she needs game slowdown which condemnation is supposed to be. Even if all the TVs stayed on she still wouldn't be able to capitalize off the teleportation since she doesn't have anything to help chase or distract survivors.
I'd take her mobility over a slightly better condemned, mobility is so huge especially if you can macro your gameplay.
Alot of tough games I have only won due to my ability to teleport causing huge pressure especially on bigger maps.
Like I said I'd only want a better condemned if the tvs stay on. Shed be worse as a basic M1 with no map control
Edit: slowdown isnt everything, her tapes equal the worst experience for pig, think how weak pig is due to her rng and sadako shows you which tv to take it too
I'd make Rickety Pinwheel base kit to entice people to remove tapes a little more frequently.
When you get to fully Condemned you are now Condemned permanently and Exposed.
Make TVs actually face the gens, they should stay turned off for less time, and you should not slow down at all when going in and out of manifest/demanifest. That's the least they can do.
Make Condemnation actually threatening so that survivors have more incentive to get rid of it, and therefore not be on gens for a bit
No lullaby, it literally defeats the entire point of being undetectable and a stealth killer. Remove the directional sound when she teleports, it’s bad enough they get a global queue to begin with. No slowdown with manifest/demanifest. Condemn needs to build up faster to where the survivors are actually concerned about removing it, they currently are not.
I actually really like this idea. With Freddy being able to teleport to gens and already being on top of it since he teleports directly to them, I think the TVS since they aren't direct on the gen could definitely be turned directly to them.
Well, adding to her RNG, Pig is also weak because she has no mobility. I'd say Sadako is stronger because of her ability to teleport around the map. I'd gladly take the teleport over reverse bear traps.
Oh yeah definitely, I think pig is one of the worst especially due to the rng.
I was just using her as an example that slowdown isnt what makes a good killer, even if sadako got abit more slowdown it wont help her in chases etc. Hence why I said I'd rather those addons base with no lullaby
They could start by giving her a power. lol
She’s actually already probably as good or maybe just slightly better than Wraith so she may not need a big buff. But if her stats turn out to be too low and the devs buff her some possible ones might be
Her phase can go through pallets, windows, and breakable doors
I think Wraith is way better, if only for his add-ons. Wraith addons make him a straight up better M1 killer. He can apply mangled, get wallhacks, get full generator information, etc etc
Sadako's add-ons.....do almost nothing really. Or at least not that I have figured out. Good survivors don't fall for her flickering mindgames really and that's all she has. Maybe running through people while demanifested? Idk. They can still just camp the pallet.
Wraith at least gets his super lunge so his power can do ~something~ in chase
All Onryo has is S tier chase music. On a few occasions the RNG gods have shined upon me and I was able to TV spam someone to death by using literally every TV in a row mid-chase
Sadako’s add-on that applies Condemned to survivors who heal each other is amazing assuming you are slugging in combination with occasional hooks. Every time someone revives a slugged survivor who has a stack they gain a stack, and if they also heal that person to full that’s another stack. And if two survivors heal a third that’s two stacks. It’s not infrequent to see survivors get to full Condemned status when you use that add-on and slug a bit.
Her red-addon that refreshes teleports on a hit after Manifesting is also pretty great. It significantly improves how often the TVs are avaialable.
Some of her other add-ons are also decent but those are probably her best two.
Sadako isn't in as bad a spot as some people seem to think, but there are a few things that I think could be done to help solidify her strengths without taking her overboard.
Mostly, her TV timers should be shorter, that's genuinely the biggest one. 100 seconds is a looooong time in this game, I definitely think that could be a fair bit shorter.
I'd also like to see the TVs changed to face the generator more reliably, but that's a minor thing, it just bugs me when I play her.
Against a really good team, I am typically struggling for downs with her. Let alone having the luxury to slug. Some maps can be decent and I always buy indoor map offerings on her.
But against a good team with 3-4 dead hards on say, Eyrie of Crows, it's usually a very painful experience. Especially if it's a genrush one finishing the first two gens before corrupt is over. I don't see where you can afford to be slugging on a map like that where every M1 hit is a battle
Slugging actually improves your pressure, especially with her because of her high map mobility. By slugging you are trading securing a hook state for an additional 10 seconds or so getting into a second chase. So if you can hook one specific survivor when you down them and slug the others for example then you are keeping typically three people off gens and also focusing your carrying time on just one person to eliminate them. Plus because of all the extra teleports you get doing this you have the side benefit of building up stacks more quickly which also adds pressure and sometimes even a kill.
Those changes would probably make her more enjoyable at base, maybe not viable or "Nurse" level (which she doesn't need to be) but at least more enjoyable.
Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that it's very difficult to slug a good team with a pure M1 killer. An unbreakable or two would shut that down so quickly that it's probably not going to be worth the risk. It's different on killers who down people easily.
On a super safe and brightly lit map; with lots of people being greedy because of dead hard, I don't see where you are slugging everyone bar some massive misplays.
If I was in a position where I can hook one person and slug multiple others, I probably could have won that game just using pop and actually hooking them the majority of the time. Sadako is exceptional at delivering Pop, I will say that. Assuming the survivors don't just turn off your power basically for free.
I can definitively tell you slugging works well with Sadako against good teams. I’ve done it personally and there’s streamers who do it regularly.
Ok well I will give it a shot next time I am playing her. What perk build do you run on her?
Condemnation should be more threatening. Like make it build up passively, but slower than when holding a tape.
Or make it that survivor is exposed when the bar is full.
Legit my gameplay vs her is to collect a tape as soon as possible, turn off all tvs and return the tape. She's chasing me because I'm full, but I can just put the tape back right in front of her, cuz there's literally no threat.
Yeah, there's been some Sadako players that absolutely clapped me, but never condemnation was a threat.
Depends on how much you want to slug versus hook. For extra slugging though Jolt and Infectious Fright are both good since Jolt gets you extra slowdown per down without needing a hook or kick and Infectious Fright tells you immediately if the next survivor you want to chase is nearby or if you’ll need to teleport to a gen farther out.
Also having a perk to help in chases is useful since, like you said earlier, once she’s in a chase that’s a weak point. So Save the Best for Last or Bamboozle for instance are both good depending on whether you want to go for followups after injures with STBFL or if you want to shut down very strong windows at certain loops. You could also try the Enduring plus Spirit Fury combo since part of a slugging strategy is playing the long game and forcing a lot of pallet drops to create dead zones for the mid and late part of the match.
If you only want to slug very occasionally then Scourge Hook Pain Resonance and Dead Man’s Switch is a decent combo since you get the regression from the hook and can then immediately teleport to the gen that it pops to force it to be blocked. Plus with her teleporting Dead Man’s Switch has extra value in general since she can pressure multiple gens in rapid succession. You can also try Make Your Choice if you plan to hook more since you can often leave a gen quickly with her, then when a rescue happens usually use a nearby TV to try for a potential Exposed hit.
In either case a lot of people would also recommend Corrupt Intervention as a way to slow down the early game to give you more time to get those early downs and pallet breaks you want for the long game. If you really want to focus quite a lot on early game pressure you could try Lethal Pursuer, although keep in mind that her TVs won’t be on until after Lethal Pursuer ends so you’ll be doing a standard Stealth ambush on someone with it instead. Likewise for Whispers to help get an early hit or down faster, plus Whispers has an added benefit with her teleport that if you teleport somewhere and see no Whisper ping you immediately know to move elsewhere.
As far as add-ons go, especially if you’re slugging, the Green add-on that adds stacks to survivors who heal each other is huge. And that red add on that refreshes TV is also great. If you don’t happen to have the red add-on then you could maybe use the add-ons that reduce the TV refresh timers to get a little bit of that same effect, or possibly the add-on that speeds up the Condemned timer on people with tapes if you’re worried about someone using tapes to shut down TVs. (The goal being not so much to kill the person with the tape directly but to keep them off gens a bit more.)
Regardless of the build though, I think the main things with Sadako are
halve tv recovery times. Survivors shouldnt be able to yoink a tape and be safe for almost all of the gen progress.
condemn gives other effect instead of a quick mori. Like she gain more invisibility and some debuffs on based on how many stacks.
i don’t know what is the point of her actual ability you go semi invisible but still have a lullaby and can’t attack. Personally I would like to see a actual invisible killer like give her complete invisibility and no flickering crap. She already can’t attack so it can be used to actually patrol gens without being uav scanned every second by swf
Not gonna lie, ai like the idea of her invis getting stronger with more stacks. That would definitely take rework amounts of time tho, so we wouldn't see that for years
Make survivors carrying a tape suffer from the Oblivious status effect until it's deposited. And remove her unnecessary lullaby.
I'm probably being bias when I say this!
Kit:
GET RID OF THE LULLABY! WHAT IS THE POINT IN EVEN BEING A STEALTH KILLER IF YOU HAVE A LULLABY!!
TVs: These take way too long to turn back on weather a survivors turns them off or if you project through them. My solution has to do with a add-on.
Add-ons:
Sadako needs add-on help because her add-ons are either useless or BHVR was too cautious as always
Old Newspaper: Base Kit, better mind game potental at loops
Clump of Hair: Base Kit, give her a better chance at ambushing unsuspecting survivor's
Mother's Comb: Base Kit, TVs are her power why shouldn't she know when a TV has been turned off
Iri Videotape: Base Kit, I'd change this to where maybe if survivor's carry a tape they become exposed and reveal there location until they get rid of the tape!
this
This wouldn't be a stupid idea if she could pass through them, she can pass through survivors, why she can't phase through stuff she can destroy anyway
Shes way worse than wraith since wraith actually has a stealth ability and chase powers.
She can actually Demanifest and Manifest mid-chase no problem while Wraith comes to almost a complete stop while Decloaking so she's actually easier to use than Wraith in a chase in a way. And she has better map mobility than Wraith, plus a lower height with on and off invisibility which can even make her a bit better than Wraith at not being being spotted depending on the situation. And while she doesn't usually get kills with her Condemned it does provide some indirect slowdown over the course of the match and, if you're aggressively pressuring the survivors, does get full Condemned stacks not that infrequently. (Especially if she uses the Green add-on that adds stacks when survivors heal each other, combine that with slugging and the stacks build up very quickly!)
This will help her.
Yes!
This way, at least I'll know which way I'll be facing after a teleport so that I'm not screwing myself over by teleporting ahead of a survivor during chase.
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I just want to vault a window at any time while demanifested... Why do I have to wait in line for the survivor to finish vaulting first??
It's not like I can manifest while vaulting and somehow end up fused with the survivor. Pls fix.