With all those Killer-good-bye threads I have been thinking...
Hello everyone,
Killer mains complaining and Killer mains feeling so much pressure, that they feel they have to announce a bigger break, have always been part of this forum, but lately there are a lot of these.
Most often the answers are a mix of appeasing and wholesome, uplifting words and a few more entitled or antagonistic/sarcastic ones, (somewhere between "you worked your way into the sweaty mmr, now deal with it" and "so you decide how we survs have to play, in order for you to have fun?").
And me, being a diplomatic killer main, I have always chimed in with my own experiences, and tried to also understand the other side.
But just now a thought struck me: why do we see so, so many killer mains, not only complaining, but also leaving, yet so few survivors? There is a fair share of survivors voicing "please nerf thia" or "xxx is too strong", and the survivors strongly voice their pov in the respective "bye, I'm leaving" threads, but I can't remember to have seen a single "the state of the survivor core game is so busted. Bye" threads.
So, is it, that more whiny, low-endurance and entitled brats play killers, while more though and resilient players main survivors? Or might the game actually be slanted in the survivors way, and playing killer (at least in the higher MMR) is really a lot more taxing and stressful?
Mind you, I am not aiming to attack the survivors here, but after a while it seems to be this way. Or maybe there is another explanation? I recently started to play more survivor, because I finished 2/3 of the killer tome quests, and I appreciate good survivor gameplay now much more, while despising tunneling, having experienced it myself way too often.
Yet, I still think that most snarky survivor responses in this good-bye-threads really don't know how though the killer side of things is vs a bunch of experienced survivors with all those perks and techniques at their disposal.
I know that this here is mostly rambling and "more of the same old", but yeah, I also believe that if things were truly balanced, or even more balanced, we would see a lot more survivor mains being fed up with the game.
The end.
Comments
Nope. I play both sides equally. 🤷♂️
Edit- When have I said I don't use perks? I've only ever said I don't use addons because I like the extra challange and it feels more rewarding. I also don't 4K every game. I struggle just like others sometimes when I go against a good SWF team. I don't go against swat squads every game like apparently all of these other killers do.
I think much of the balance of DBD is subjective and mostly tied that person’s own experience. So for some people playing “sweaty” is playing normal, for others playing “casual” is playing bad, and for the ones that don’t care “casual” is normal mode. Etc.
I believe there is an in between, and also the balance changes based on skill of the person and perks brought. Not because the perks are not balanced but because of the RNG-based concept DBD has. Where you could bring something that doesn’t even help you in the situations you are about to face, because, there is no way of knowing them ahead of time.
I have had so many matches where a killer might have brought a nasty slow down build (they do exist). Survivors were still able to push gens even though it might have taken forever and the killer still thought they were “genrushed” even though they might have gotten 9 out of the 12 hooks. That to me is illogical, the same way I consider someone who has not tried playing survivor speaking on survivor perks, and vice versa… illogical.
Anyway, the point is they want the system to hit the sweet spot, but I personally don’t think that will be possible all the time. Considering that RNG plays a big part (maps, set ups, gen/totem/hook spawns, casual vs non-casual, etc.)
These 2 post charts were 2 matches next to each other.
From a team that didnt know where to ran, how to loop. MMR up and suddenly everyone knew how to loops with DH.
Both matches, I play Spirit without using power, only 110% chase, no tunnel, no camp, no kill secure.
The left match, I gave everyone 4 hooks stages (I would slug anyone on death hook for the 4th chance) and still 4k (16 hooks total). The right match, 6 hooks. Of course I could 4k the right team if I use power, better perks, tunnel/camp.
But this is just an example that shows the gap between 2 teams once your MMR makes 1 step up is huge. It can go between boring to stressful match in a note.
I'm currently at Iri 1 for killer and Iri 3 for survivor (solo queue). I most certainly do not get 4Ks each match and when I got my MMR back down to a level where matches are enjoyable again I alternate hooks so no survivor dies before the fifth or sixth hook so my MMR stays at an enjoyable level.
Despite not tunneling or camping, I still get BMed a few times per day and still run into bully squads of SWF whose only goal is to try to ruin my day. When I'm playing killers that are weaker or I'm unfamiliar with the BMing Increases a lot. The majority of survivors are cool and fun but there is a very significantly sized portion that is just out to ruin people's experience; I encounter more toxic survivors than I encounter toxic killers.
Survivor, even though I solo queue, is easier, less stressful, and less demanding in my experience than playing killer.
BHVR needs to step up its moderation and/or start buffing the weaker killers.
That killer is too strong mimimi! I have to press one button for my main objective, that's too much work! Nobody needs more skill than we survivor mains!
This guy speaks the truth.
It's also the SWF or the really high rated survivor being toxic and being rewarded for it.
A stale gameplay loop, a busted meta and a never ending grind walk into a saloon...
kindred camraderie is normaly what i take with me in soloq. and dont forget its a 4v1 if they do gens while you get camped its a 3 man escape. and tbh 70% of the time they camp with a reason (clicky,got annoyed last round, hacks,etc)
Being pushed into running the "meta" seems to be a bad thing- At least in my opinion
I don't want to run the "meta" but that's a personal choice
The Survivors have more choice in what perks they run but Killer doesn't- Again in my opinion
And that's a reason why so many Killer players are leaving- Again in my opinion
Exactly this. No argument. One would have to be oblivious to state otherwise.
I will elaborate further tho. Yes it is more stressful, but that stress is coming from survivors having a massive advantage on their side. Nobody is telling survivors how they should play, we are just angry at BHVR completely favoring one side cause they bring in the money.
What ruins a killers game is usually voice communication. Imagine the killer having the entity whisper in his ear all the time "Survivor is doing this gen", "survivor is cleansing your ruin", "Survivor is hiding in this locker". That would be a massive gamechanger, as I as killer can now drop some aura perks in favor of chase or slowdown perks.
And that is what you see SWF doing, they are stacked with 2nd chance perks, that if played properly, will give the killer 0 chance of getting any kills. Any competent 4man team can give a killer 0k if they choose to do so. Luckily many of them are still 'gamers', but also many of them are just gen rushers and there is nothing you can do about that as killer. (the average high MMR game has all gens pop in 4-5mins even with slowdown perks). Even if you have someone on hook when that last gen pops, they will swarm the hook and protect that person to the gate. Again nothing a killer can do against that.
Now imagine any decent killer, he will reach high MMR. High MMR is where the vast majority of SWFs play. So the vast majority of killer matches will be versus SWFs. That is just a statistical fact. Ofcourse many killers are then burning out when they get 10 such matches in a row, before they get bumped back down to a solo lobby.
DISCLAIMER: It is not the SWF fault for playing the way they do, it is BHVRs fault. The game was not designed nor balanced to have SWF teams. Many latecomers don't realize that the ability to play with friends only came much later. The game was not released with it. Again it is not the players fault for using it, it is BHVR that allows it.
Quitting threads are BS anyway.
If you were going to quit, like I have a few times, you just quit and play something else.
The point of writing a "goodbye forever, here's everything that ever annoyed me" post is to say "I'm still playing, and probably still playing killer. Here's all the stuff I want changed, and I think it sounds more dramatic if I say it's so bad that it's caused me to leave the game."
The saloon is then disabled.
Forums are usually filled with whoever has the most to complain about so i agree.
Much later? SWF was added in a patch less than a month after the game officially released.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe the game should be rebalanced around a higher assumed level of coordination (with all the changes that involves, from updating perks that are countered by comms to giving base survivors more info and balancing killers around that) but it was only for a very small post-release time window SWF wasn't a part of the game.
Yes, but it was a separate mode that only got merged with standard play much later. As in it only affected killers that chose to play against SWF. It was only patch 3.x.x where SWF is the way it is now.
And I say again, the game was never intended to have this mode at all. It was only implemented due to popular request.
May I ask at which time of day did you play those games? Prime time (eg. After 8pm for EU)?
Just as a guess if MMR was stepping up so much or just simply off tue to queue times.
I suspect behaviour changed the matchmaking algorithm overall but kept the "shutting MMR off at high queue times".
This is the only game where I'm scared and avoiding playing with the other role because of bad balance and general stress that i can't really take.
Survivor gameplay is relatively enjoyable even if the killer is destroying everyone. There's really no reason to leave the game if after 3 escapes you're playing against a really annoying killers or perks. 3 people can carry you.
When Killer mains are find the survivor role boring to play and they don't want to switch roles because of that, they have no reason to stay.
Survivors are currently in the "easy mode". if one of them leaves the game, it's probably because of complaints that not everyone agrees with, bugs and so on.
I would like to play killer and survivor equally but mentally i can't take that.
Eh im not too concerned about it tbh. I really enjoy both sides but obviously have my gripes about both sides, however I have to agree with some people here, if you have a survivor sided opinion you immediately have 10 people jumping down your throat and that im sure has alot to do with survivors not being on the forum.
With all that being said, DBD continues to peak at around 70k players a day on steam alone, no telling how many on consoles, epic, switch, and others. 45k average a day on steam which is 10k higher than a year ago and the 70k peak is 20k higher than a year ago. People come and go and will continue to do so.
EXACTLY! I have started just playing to have fun and be silly. I slug a player I'll step back and nod to the survivors waiting for the rescue to go ahead and pick them up and fully heal them. I make chases fun for both sides and be silly......
Like one game on Blackwater Swamp I got chased by a Meg and Malika as a Demo and I tried to run out the exit gate trying to get away from them. That resulted in the Meg dropping a Purple Medkit and the Malika offering herself as a Kill for me with them saying how much fun they had.
I agree that to me a close game is the ideal, but to be fair there are definitely a fair number of people who post in the forums who care more about handily beating the opponents than having close games. This is evidenced for example by people who post about how they intentionally throw games to lower their MMR so they can face weaker opponents. There’s no reason to do that other than a desire to stomp weaker players.
So what you and I want might be close games, but that’s not what a number of other people want.
I agree with you. I get a lot of sweaty matches but I also get those games that are pretty chill, you win some you lose some that's pretty natural in games. I guess some killers think only getting a 4k is a win.
It's weird how every single place you can discuss this game is considered not a valid place.
30% player loss on steam since august BTW
I played through the day in weekend. I had 3-4k for 20 matches despite I held alot not to kill them too fast. Got into 4 DH vs every survivors decent in chase made a huge difference. Then after that I went back to the newbie teams again because of 0k
The option to opt in/opt out of going vs SWF has never existed. The patch you linked was the one that improved the functionality by adding the in-game friends list and making parties consistent instead of needing re-inviting between every game, that's all it did (as well as combining the SWF "game mode" into the "play as survivor" game mode by just having an invite button instead of a seperate button on the main menu). They were never actually seperate modes with seperate matchmaking pools.
Here's an example of a Steam Discussions thread from mid 2017 that makes it pretty obvious the ability to opt out of going against SWF was not a thing even then: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1458455461494504566/
And that's just one example, the first one that caught my eye when googling for an example.
No matter if it was intended, I find it very hard to believe there's any realistic chain of events that wouldn't lead to it being introduced shortly after launch. Simply because DBD is a multiplayer game released in 2016. It was gonna come and it was gonna stay, and when the devs have made it clear anything that splits the playerbase like seperate queues is out of the question the only real option is to balance around its existence (which I 100% agree they haven't done a particularly excellent job of doing).
you win some you lose some, 100% agree. The problem with this game tho, is that skill has no impact at all. I mean... Pressing spacebar to vault and E to DeadHard is not particularly hard is it? :)
Out of 1000s of hours of gametime, I can only name a handfull of players that I thought were seriously outplaying me, not cause they were in a SWF or communicating, but just cause they were chaining every loop on the map together perfectly. That takes some insight to do.
Although i haven't removed dbd from my pc yet, after several years of playing (2k hours), i stopped to play since a few months ago, just playing a few games every other week.
People already mentioned it: Some maps are just too problematic (either too big, too many busted windows/ strong tiles like cowshed/haddonfield etc)
Bhvr buffed deadhard (i know the deadhard buff was a fix ), still dh was already very strong (way too strong in my opinion), everyone used it and they decided to buff it even further...,
They fixed the pallet stun validation, a good thing but again results in a big nerf for killers.
I played some games as killer since the boon patch(icing on the cake), because i was curious: To play against shadowstep/coh on cowshed or haddonfield, already completly busted maps, its like torture. there is no need to discuss balance at this point, its just a joke(its not about getting kills). If you play a m1 killer you have to focus your eyes like a hawk, because if they manage to run out of sight after the speedburst from your m1 into boon range, you will have to focus very hard. Trying to apply split pressure on different gens and not commiting to chases, forget it, they have unlimited healing with coh. And the new meta on several maps seems to be to hold shift W, couldnt be more boring. If this is the way that bhvr wants to game to play, i ll never come back.
And the new maps keep getting worse, midwitch. racoon, and the new map all horrible maps gameplay wise. The last good map was saloon.