NOED isn't rewarding poor gameplay from Killers, stop complain, do bones!
hey,
there have been many threads posted about this totem perk and I'm not saying that all survivors are too lazy to make totems, because that's just a bad statement and doesn't help anyone. The only real reason many players complain about Noed is because they lost a game because of this perk. There is no other explanation for this and it doesn't matter what justifications come from the players involved. In principle, it's always the same.
But there are also moments when the game is very tight and the survivors just don't have time to look for all the totems. Especially when someone uses a strong killer with 3 slowdown perks on a map with very well hidden totems. ( Meanwhile there are very many tools to find totems, no matter how well they are hidden ) However, I would like to point out the following points, which are often ignored by survivors. ( I play both sides myself and can therefore judge this well )
1. the killer plays the whole time only with 3 Perks before the Exitgates are activated.
2. noed can be completely deactivated by survivors.
3. for example, if the killer is not lucky enough to get many survivors before the Exitgates are activated ( for whatever reason ), then the survivors should still be able to clean/destroy totems without the pressure ( the time pressure to make yourself ) that gives the killer no noed advantage.
I think, if the survivors allow the killer to get kills at the end with noed, ( for whatever reason ) then they have made mistakes in the endgame. So it is up to the survivors and not the killer. Do I think this perk is perfectly balanced? Yes, definitely. You can't balance a totemperk any better than that.
Comments
I think part of NOED's problem is that, unlike other hex perks, it actually -isn't- high risk. If NOED doesn't fire, that means it slowed survivors down by a ton since they had to get all the totems.
At worst, it's a great slowdown perk. At best, it's a great slowdown perk -and- free kills.
Which is another problem with the 'do bones' argument. The first four totems just make NOED stronger, it's only the last one that does anything to counter it.
It's just an awfully designed perk and needs to be overhauled.
The way NOED currently works, it incentivises -not- doing totems more.
That's an awfully big blanket statement, and those don't tend to help anyone
Would you like clarification? I'll quote a post I made on an older topic
NOED's big 'counter' is doing all five totems, but there's already problems with that: Doing five totems takes a hell of a long time, and since NOED isn't declared until gen 5 is done, there's a chance that survivors do five totems only to have the killer not bring NOED, making it a strong slowdown perk without costing a perk slot, which is inherently busted.
Then there's the issue of it taking all five totems being down to fail to fire, which widens the Swiffer/Solo gap and adds to balancing issues, since solos have no way of communicating where they've busted totems and how many totems are left, or even IF they're doing totems.
Then there's the issue of it being 'all or nothing', where doing 4 totems has zero impact on how powerful NOED is when it fires.
Then there's the issue of 'if you do the four totems you CAN find, NOED is going to the one totem you CAN'T find', technically making NOED stronger by investing in the counter.
And then there's the whole 'If the killer camps on first hook, just genrush and leave' combined with 'You shouldn't have genrushed, you deserve to be hit with NOED'.
Overall, it is the worst designed perk in the game and while it doesn't need to be outright deleted, it needs a very invasive rework to be made a functional and healthy part of the game. It'll be hard to make it not benefit facecampers, but the issue there lies with the facecamping more so than with NOED, to be fair.
Irrelevant. Lots of perks require no effort to work. That is not a reason to single out NOED.
If NOED gets nerfed than dead hard has to get nerfed.
Poorly designed perk, problems....that's all I read. Honestly ? this, is a pretty lazy excuse
I don't care if my team is running boons, if I see a totem I'm breaking it. that's on your teammate for bringing boon perks.
The one death hook gets exposed will just destroy the perk. There have been games where I could only get most of them on first hook because of the usual SWF bs but I won't go into it.
Making it like that will just make NOED into a gutted useless perk.
I have been in SoloQ teams where we did all the Bones before EG. So it's no fault but to the survivors that dont do bones or keep it in thier mind that NOED could be a viable threat.
The Devs need to understand that SWFs have ruined thier game.....their stance on "Wanting friends to play together" is blinding them to the fact on how broken SWFs are.
SoloQ and Killers should get some kind of buff for every SWF member there is in a game. Not a major buff but something to make things more fair for the constant information that they have at all times. What it is I dont know and the forums isn't a place to find out because, let's face it, it full of one sided arguments where the 50/50 players like me are the minority. Killer Mains are "GUT SWFS RAWR" while Survivor mains are "NERF KILLERS RAWR" nothing will ever get fixed like that.
Add Proximity Voice Coms
Technically Boons incentives not doing Bones anymore....some players will actually harass players who break totems to get thier Inner Strength because they dont have CoH....it happened to me when I was able to get a survivor match.
Than swf would still objectively be better
Yea but my idea of Proxy is the killer can hear it too. So if the Killer say breaks the chase and a players says "hea coming your way scatter" you know what to expect.
maybe, in KYF with ours friends, the killer has access to the comms and always wins. A 4k
Yea but that's with friends I did that and it was either a fun fest of a 4k or 4E but was fun. With Proxy chat the killer still will have to be close to hear the talking.
If you're not interested in discussing this matter, why bother making this topic?
If you can't think of anything to say against it, just say 'good points' and move on. It's really not that bad to just say 'I was wrong'.
The players here all have strong opinions and that's fine. But there are also facts that prove some things and facts do not lie. Always claiming that this is bad and that is bad does not get us anywhere. The arguments I have brought, are partly from a dev and there is strangely always agreed ? Here is not always about right and wrong. The only thing that strikes me in the whole discussion is the fact that you (no matter what you write) at some point simply muzzled.
lol.
I hope you also think Boons are fine, just do bones after all.
I wouldn't mind if snuffing them would permanently disable them the same way Hex totems do. But snuffing Boons isn't 'doing bones'.
No no, context doesn't matter, only 'do bones'.
Also, you can't complain until you've cleansed one survivor's boon five times over. Just snuffing one isn't enough.
If you're one of those people who keep blessing the same totem over and over, just means you're a time waster to your team.
But I guess "health state" means a lot when you dont know how to manage time. Just as useless as self care users.
About the totem counter currently tied to Small Game, what if it appeared in the HUD just like the killer sees their hook count?
Now, yes, if would buff SWF as well, but I’d say that’s a necessary evil. It bridges the ‘totem gap’ between soloes and SWFs far more than nerfing SWF ever will.
Buffs are better than nerfs.
It wouldn't buff Swiffer. This is one of the few things that swiffers can communicate extremely easily. If one guy did two totems and another did one, all they have to do is declare how many totems they cleared and they can work out there's two left.
Yes, that too. However the general Swiffer isn’t going to coordinate that well. So in that sense… I’d honestly call it a buff for survivors in general.
Though, yes, it would hardly change anything for efficient swiffers. All the more reason to do it, eh?
I use Self-Care with Botany Knowledge and do great :3
2 perks just so one is less crappy though.
Healing Speed increase on BK, slight as it may appear in-game has been clutch ad-infinum.
I'd rather just stay injured and only use one slot for iron will
It works when healing others, too, while providing solo utility.
Play solo. Do 4 bones. Do gens. Die to NOED anyway while other 3 survivors teabag in the exit gates and then run out despite having been super useless.
Kinda sad this game has trained me to hate my teammates and prefer my own death to any chance they might escape. I meme around and enjoy my demise, happy in the knowledge me dying early is pretty much a guaranteed death for everyone else. (You're welcome, killers. Handing you the win is my pleasure.) I've actually become very happy to see NOED proc for the last survivor after the hatch is closed. I love to see them get the door almost open, they let go so they take a hit and don't get grabbed, and then they're on the ground because NOED. lol. Beautiful. Next time do bones instead of stealthing around the outside of the map.
Solo and even 2-man SWF is hell. It's not necessarily about NOED, it's about teammates you can't count on whatsoever. NOED is just kind of the pinnacle of it, highlighting how much playing outside of a 4-man sucks. But even without NOED solo would be hell, fixing NOED wouldn't fix the problem, so in some ways it doesn't even matter. I'd still continue to meme as survivor and enjoy the carnage.
I believe no, because it would take away a useful function from "Small Game" and at the same time also provide more counterplay against Noed.The surprise effect would be missing and survivors would benefit too much. Give me a reason to take Noed then if the survivors would automatically know how many totems are left to make.
We don’t need a totem counter. With hex petimento you won’t see anyone cleansing totems and you’ll see at least one boon perk per match
I also did not write that we need a totem counter. I was responding to a post by another user. Hex Pentimento has nothing to do with it
I am already aware of that. Whether you now destroy totems or bless comes in principle to the same result (except that blessing a little more time costs). Has also happened to me. Sometimes the survivors get in their own way, thats true.
It's just sad, Survivors are so used to the Hand Holding they get with the current meta and way the game is that when something like NoEd pops and suddenly they are back in the weaker role again they get mad or upset and call for NoEds gutting and destruction.
People forget this is a Asymmetrical Game where the Killer is the power role and survivors are supposed to be hiding and be sneaky to get gens done.
None of this reasoning matters because the regardless of how you try to fight this argument, in the end, it does award poor-gameplay.
Literally often times, I'd say around 8 times out of 10, a killer that is running NOED, has max two hooks on any given survivor/s in the match, if even 1.
The only true disadvantage of NOED is the fact that it can be de-activated before even activating, but it rewards the killer too much in the fact that a killer can bypass all health states, on top of an end-game speedboost that allows them to move around much quicker.
Bones are a second objective for both sides now survivors have been doing bones for noed for some time. Now killer need to do bones for boons CoH is not a crutch perk
I remember well when I started with DBD in 2016 and noed was not yet a totemperk. So I would rule out noed as a basekit. If you want a totem counter as a solo player, then play with "Small Game".
Speaking of totem counter: it would not only give solo players a big advantage, but also buff swf since you can't balance solo and swf separately. Noed would also have too much counterplay. Give me a reason to take noed then. Does not make sense
A totem counter is the one thing that doesn't buff swiffers, since it's information that most swiffers will readily share between them. It's unbelievably easy to tell your teammate how many totems you did, the literal only requirements are that you know how to count and can communicate to them.
'Then why would I take NOED?'
Because it still forces survivors to spend a crapton of time on dismantling it, or they give you a free kill, or both.
'Just take small game!'
That's called perk tax and it's why survivors all run DS/BT/UB.
I play primarily Solo and run 0-1 of those perks depending on my build and do very well.
Did I get a 'Perk Tax Break' or something?
Oddly, I mostly see DS/BT (or Iron Will against v coordinated teams) /UB/DH used by the SWF I face on my high MMR killers, with solos bringing in a lot of unique/varied builds.
Solo xp is the best you can have. ( trust me i have over 6400h and I only play solo ) and there are many things ( example: OH HI, HELLO MAP ITEMS ) you can take with you to track down totems. Always just assuming the worst case scenario doesn't cut it. It's enough if every survivor makes 1-2 totems. Also, it happens very often that solos are matched with 2s 3s swf's. To say that such perks are a totem tax I think is wrong. Each perk is designed for certain situations. A UI totemconter is unnecessary, weakens many Perks and makes them less attractive.
It doesn't matter. When bad killers run NOED, you still get a 3 man escape. They still need to down whoever their victim is. And there is still counter play if you decide to go that route. Before and after. The only people who whine about NOED are bad survivors who are even worse than the bad killers they are complaining about which is just sad.
The problem is that 'you can just bring X' makes the game about counterpicking, not counterplaying. You could make a similar argument about old DS: 'Just bring Pyramid Head!'.
'Well, what if I don't want to play PH?'
Similarly, what if I want to bring a medkit, or toolbox? What if I don't want to bring Small Game for a feature that only serves to counter NOED?
Also, 'weakens many perks'? It's literally only NOED that it affects.
Where should there be a problem? Whether you take an item or a perk for totems..... Let's say you want to take something other than a map add on. Feel free to do so but don't complain if you don't want to take anything else useful for finding totems ?!
Imagine if there was a totem counter in the user interface. Whether swf's or solo, everyone would automatically know how many totems are active. Survivors would automatically go looking for them. I would then argue: Noed is history. There would be no reason to use this Perk anymore.
"So weakens a lot of perks"? It's literally only NOED that it affects." ???
Literally? It doesn't. It would also take away an important feature of the "Small Game Perk", for example.
I'll honestly disagree with this mostly. I only play Solo and I've never found NoED to be an issue. If I see a totem, I cleanse it. If my team cleanses them I do gens, it's about being able to understand what kind of people you're playing with by watching what they do.
nah, its fine. if you hate NOED that much run a map.
I'd honestly wager that a vast majority of the player base doesn't really care about NOED at all, regardless of whether they're SWF or Solo, given the replies to any polls/topics I've made on the perk in the past wherein I was specifically asking for Solo replies.
Of course, it's not easier when you're on your own, but it's also not your fault if your teammates don't make totems. In the realm of Entitus everything has its advantages and disadvantages. For my part, I can only confirm that I have no problems solo and only in the rarest cases noed to my doom