NOED isn't rewarding poor gameplay from Killers, stop complain, do bones!
hey,
there have been many threads posted about this totem perk and I'm not saying that all survivors are too lazy to make totems, because that's just a bad statement and doesn't help anyone. The only real reason many players complain about Noed is because they lost a game because of this perk. There is no other explanation for this and it doesn't matter what justifications come from the players involved. In principle, it's always the same.
But there are also moments when the game is very tight and the survivors just don't have time to look for all the totems. Especially when someone uses a strong killer with 3 slowdown perks on a map with very well hidden totems. ( Meanwhile there are very many tools to find totems, no matter how well they are hidden ) However, I would like to point out the following points, which are often ignored by survivors. ( I play both sides myself and can therefore judge this well )
1. the killer plays the whole time only with 3 Perks before the Exitgates are activated.
2. noed can be completely deactivated by survivors.
3. for example, if the killer is not lucky enough to get many survivors before the Exitgates are activated ( for whatever reason ), then the survivors should still be able to clean/destroy totems without the pressure ( the time pressure to make yourself ) that gives the killer no noed advantage.
I think, if the survivors allow the killer to get kills at the end with noed, ( for whatever reason ) then they have made mistakes in the endgame. So it is up to the survivors and not the killer. Do I think this perk is perfectly balanced? Yes, definitely. You can't balance a totemperk any better than that.
Comments
That is unfortunately correct
If no totems are made and Noed is active at the end, the survivors still have a chance to find the totem. This 4/5 solo argument is just a cop-out. If the killer catches a survivor with noed, it is the survivor's fault, not the killer's.
I really like that idea! It wouldn't be a hex anymore, right? Then you could keep the movement boost regardless of remaining totems, and some exposed hits depending on the number of remaining totems. Would the tokens be spent with every hit, or just when you down someone from healthy?
"it's your fault" isn't an argument.
Play more solo Q.
Again, same could've been said for old DS: You can just bring PH, so don't complain about a survivor being literally untargetable for a full minute by a perk that's obviously busted.
Imagine if there was a totem counter in the user interface. Whether swf's or solo, everyone would automatically know how many totems are active. Survivors would automatically go looking for them. I would then argue: Noed is history. There would be no reason to use this Perk anymore.
NOED would still not be history, since it would still be in the same position it is now: Slowdown, free kill, or both. NOED doesn't do nothing if all five totems are gone, since NOED was the only reason that all those totems are gone in the first place. Even if it doesn't net you the free kill, it's still a powerful slowdown perk, possibly outperforming other perks like Dying Light or Thanatophobia.
Literally? It doesn't. It would also take away an important feature of the "Small Game Perk", for example.
Small Game worked for years without the totem counter and it was still a viable pick back then, so I don't see why that would change. Just having a totem counter won't help you find the totems, it'll just help you identify whether you should bother with the totems at all.
The game is not balanced around Discord and comms for swf. the game doesnt have a built in voice chat.
You know whats crazy? Everyone complaining about noed. And saying its unfair for solo surv. Yet they could just make a half ass build, Or bring a map to deal with totems. Hell counter force itself is really good for anti-totems. Reading everyones response, its less of noed is strong and more "i dont wannna. I just wanna do gens".
All it takes is one survivor to get some totems.
"But why do solo have to use a perk that swf gets for free" ...because you dont have friends? Idk..
If im being blunt, crying about noed when boon totems, maps, Inner healing, smallgame, counterforce, detectives hunch is such a stupid thing. Literal freaking tools to deal with noed. But yet all i see is "why should i bring an item/perk to deal with it". Its less of noed is op and more survs wanna complain about something.
Prob ruffled some feathers. Tbh. Idc. There is way more unbalanced things than noed.
i always play solo and i haven´t any problems with noed
well said! If NOED got nerfed, than those anti totem perks would be pointless.
I like to discuss but, you are trying to twist the words in my mouth. It was meant on your allusion so let it be !
I've noticed that lately too and I'm curious to see what comes next
I think you might have missed a lot of posts on this thread mentioning why bringing an item/perk to counter something is a problem.
It's like saying if you didn't like old DS, just play pyramid head.
Yes, it wouldn't have a 'hex totem' lit up, so it wouldn't really be a Hex perk anymore, just a totem-related perk.
Whether tokens are spent on attacks or hits? My first instinct is on attacks even if they miss, which adds in the skill element everyone says NOED is missing, but depending on how often multiple totems remain up at the end of the game... I'm not entirely sure if this would be too weak.
Yea? Then it sounds like just complaining then. There is counters. If you dont wanna counter it, then thats their problem. Then they shouldnt complain about it. Mind as well just get rid of all items and perks at that point. No point in builds. Or items. Give every survivor the same perks. Right? Do you see how that sounds? Pretty stupid right?
Yes ive read it. And i still think those people are stupid and wanna complain to complain. Idk. Easy solutions, yet for some reason no one wants to do it.
Now about your phead comment. How old ds we talking here? Because there is a counter to ds. Dont tunnel. But the difference between that ds im sure you talking about is killers literally couldnt do ######### to survivors for 60 seconds. Where as noed is extremely counterable. Apples and oranges. Good try tho.
Now about your phead comment. How old ds we talking here? Because there is a counter to ds. Dont tunnel. But the difference between that ds im sure you talking about is killers literally couldnt do [BAD WORD] to survivors for 60 seconds. Where as noed is extremely counterable. Apples and oranges. Good try tho.
Killers could do something about old DS.
They could play PH.
Just bring PH, 4head.
The main problem with NoED is that it is too strong against solos, and weak against swf.
SWFs:
- Can tell each other the totem locations.
- Can keep track of how many totems were destroyed.
- Can efficiently do a totem search if NoED becomes active.
- They don't even have to cleanse totems if they remember the locations and tell each other.
And not tunnel. Or slug.
Edit. I do know you were kidding. Im just really tired.
I wouldn't say it's the main problem, but it's a big one, definitely. It helps widen the gulf between solo and swiffer and makes balancing harder.
Based on your argumentation totem counter widget is fine, because you as a killer have a counterplay to survivors cleansing totems: just protect a single dull totem from getting cleansed, or bring thrill of the hunt to protect your totems, etc. There... You have a counterplay. So totem counter widget is fine.
Old DS also had counters, so were all the people saying it was OP complaining?
Or is it only complaining when it's against a perk you think it's fine?
@fogdonkey :
@Firellius
Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Just because you have voice chat in a SWF doesn't mean it's easier to play against Noed.
"So totem counter widget is fine" ?
No, it would mitigate too much, and that's exactly what all the survivors complaining about this perk want.
In what way would it not be easier to play against NOED when you have voice comms? You are really grasping at straws here, bud.
Everything can, not must. Do you really think it's easier to play against noed when you're with a swf? You are completely wrong
How can you say this:
It is absolutely not the same. SWF gets it for free, as a solo I must sacrifice a perk slot or forced to bring a map instead of medkit or toolbox.
And why is it a problem if we give them what they want? It would maybe even help to slow down the game, because survivors would be motivated to search the totems, because they would know that their efforts are not worthless because the last totem was not found and destroyed.
DS was changes because it allowed one side to progress the game while the other side was unable to progress a portion of theirs for the duration.
NOED does not do this, and anyone trying to compare them is grasping at straws.
You are missing the point.
The point is that counterpicking was an option for old DS. So if that still got nerfed, then the argument of 'you can counterpick NOED' doesn't hold any weight.
You could just facecamp every survivor to counter old DS.
See? Easy universal counter.
How many players would take noed if a totem gave a counter? Three guesses
Let me answer you with a question:
- How many survivors would bring DS, it is only useful if the killer tunnels.
- How many killers still tunnel even if the survivor maybe has DS active?
- How many survivors would still bring BT, it is only useful if the killer tunnels.
- How many killer would hit an unhooked survivor, not knowing if the unhooker has BT?
What I mean is that even with a totemcounter in many cases the totems will not be cleansed and NoED will become active. And in many cases survivors will cleanse totems even if killer does not have NoED.
I'm sure there will be enough and if this perk gets used less it can only be a good thing for this game and for all killer players. For me it feels very unrewarding to get kills with Noed. It's either used by boosted players who need it to get kills (cleansing 5 totems in this case is fine) OR by tryhards who can't live without their 4k because it's toxic swf survs everywhere! In this case, cleansing 5 totems especially when solo is a hard task, the killer is pressuring and hooking constantly, gens need to be done, and then the last 2 survivors standing get hit by f-ing Noed...
BT and DS (especially) literally grow in power as the game goes on, often creating guaranteed escapes, if the killer does not tunnel all game and people aren't on death hook when all the gens are done.
Yes, if you have active DS and get unhooked near an opened exit gate then you have a guaranteed escape.
But the point of my comment was that often not all totems will be destroyed and NoED will be active. And often all totems will be destroyed and NoED will not activate, but it means that it was a nice time waster for survivors and it already did it's effect.
why do you ask me a counter question and not just answer? Is it because you want to be right? That is terrible
"I'm sure there will be enough and if this perk gets used less it can only be a good thing for this game and for all killer players"
wait what ? All I can glean from this is that you want to give the survivors an advantage, as do many other users here.
I also would like to point out the following once again. Whether totems have been made or not. It doesn't matter if all 5 or only 1 totem is left. If noed is active and the survivors are caught, then the survivors made a mistake in the end game. That is simply a fact and cannot be refuted. It does not matter if solo or swf. The result is always the same and a totem counter function in the UI doesn't matter, on the contrary: it would weaken noed (e.g. also the surprise effect), because the survivors automatically go searching for totems just to turn off this perk. Who would like to take noed ? Is simply no longer worth it
Certain perks and items are designed specifically for solo play. ppl should accept that, and if they don't like it.... play swf
Noed is crutch and needs to get removed.
Difference between noed and ds is night and day. Noed doesnt prevent the game from moving forward. Infact you could literally stop noed from ever happening in the first place. Ds on the other hand was used as an offensive weapon in the killers face. Including doing gens right in the killer face forcing him to grab you just to stop you from doing a gen. Not to mention the free unhook you can do at hooks because of ds. The difference between them, besides one being a hex and can he removed from the game entirely before it even procs vs. One who can literally stop a killer in their tracks and be forced upon the killer. It was literally 60 seconds of "i do what i want". So yea good job on your strawman argument.
Oh dude i know. It would seem in this thread, they want everything handed to them. Even when there is tools they can bring to never get hit with noed again.
You can also literally stop DS from ever being used if you don't tunnel.
That's not the point.
The point is that the argument of 'just bring map/SG' is a terrible one that could also be used to justify reverting the DS nerf, despite that perk being broken as all hell.
'Just play PH, 4head'
There need to be counterplay options, not counterpicks.
Youre kidding right? You can't be this dense.
I mean...if you wanna use that argument same can be said about the pop nerf. Litetal counter to noed is to do bones. Dont know where bones are? Bring a map. Dont want to? Bring small game. Dont want to? Bring detectives Hunch. Dont want to? Bring counter force. Dont want to? Well come to the forums and complain.
Your counter argument: you hate old ds? Bring a whole other killer. And you think thats a good logical argument? Really?
Just to clarify, you actually believe, that to argue against bringing a perk. Against noed. When killers are supposed to be the power role. In an asymmetrical horror game. Is the same as bring a killer to counter an offensive weapon. That gave survivors 60 seconds of do what i want. Which is almost equal to the star in mario. Is a good logical counter argument?
Ps. The counterplay to noed. Is to do bones. Perks and items make it easier. But you can still do them with out it (:
Is this game meant to be balanced?
1 whacking the other 4 who keep skittering and scurrying around, fearful that they may die? How do you balance such a game?
Balance is not the name of this game. 😎
Btw NOED pretty much helps balance gen-rushed game for a killer. It is a good and useful perk.
Killers cant tell who is and who isnt soloq. All it takes is one good team and gens are done before you can get a kill unless youre playing blight or nurse. NOED is a killer's second chance perk. In a game where one team has so many second chance perks, and the other team has one viable one that everyone considers to be a noob perk or an op perk. Double standards are RAMPANT in this community
Well we can hope it will be and make suggestions to change it
it is fair because every solo player at high mmr knows every map.
Given that I'm already forced to run Kindred to stand even the slightest chance of long-term survival, I really don't want to be forced into running another perk just to know what others know for free.
Also, I don't see the problem with adding a totem counter at all. It doesn't tell you where they are, does it now? They're still as hidden as always. It's just a slight help for struggling solo players.
Also also, how often do you face killers using NoED in the first place? I can guarantee you that if it became even slightly more common, you'd see many many more complaints about it. There's a reason killer players don't want to use it, myself included.
I'm not afraid of using any perks in the game. They're there for a reason.
Well, yes, not everyone is against it of course. Though, I've heard plenty of killers explicitly stating they refuse to run it. Many of those on these very forums.
Your counter argument: you hate old ds? Bring a whole other killer. And you think thats a good logical argument? Really?
No, I don't. That's exactly the point.
Just to clarify, you actually believe, that to argue against bringing a perk. Against noed. When killers are supposed to be the power role. In an asymmetrical horror game. Is the same as bring a killer to counter an offensive weapon. That gave survivors 60 seconds of do what i want. Which is almost equal to the star in mario. Is a good logical counter argument?
Trying to argue anything about a 'power role' is completely useless when that term is entirely undefined. I see it thrown around a lot on the forums, but most people seem to think that it means that the killer should just have the odds stacked in their favour, IE: They should be OP.
And yes, bringing a perk or bringing a killer is the same -principle-: It's restricting build variety and personal choice to band-aid bad design.
Yes, you can do totems without perks and maps. But you could also circumvent old DS by slugging or avoiding.
'That's so inefficient though!'
So's trying to do five totems without intel perks.
ALSO
Whether totems have been made or not. It doesn't matter if all 5 or only 1 totem is left
This also states, bluntly, that the 'counter' of doing bones is at least 80% bull.
I'm one of them. I will never use NOED. It feels cheap and very unfair to solo players.