Survivors need more physical resources in a match
The last four killers that have been released, have all had a focus on anti-looping and range. The two killers before Twins also have anti-looping and range.
But with each release, the powers are tweaked a little, to give some glitz and glam, but it's copy and paste.
Playing against most of these killers is either frustrating, annoying, or feels disconnected from what DBD is meant to feel like considering that these killers can ignore or overlook what survivors have traditionally as their protection (aka pallets/windows/vaults).
Survivors need some active and in-game counterplay, and no, Boons are not the answer on making the game feel more interactive.
Comments
No, if your running out of pallets or loops before gens are done then that's a result of inefficient teammates, not a lack of resources.
where to get those 'good' survivors keep giving 4kills for 1perk wm1?
good chase omg..
least there should be any prove because it doesn't make sense
If you've met a good survivors with 1perk, 3gen gone on your first hook
unless you found and downed one less than 30seconds of started
and that case how to call those survivors 'good'
its either you lying or ability hitting killer
than is there any different on your lists
all forum conversation is bout in high mmr game exploded before you make any judgment
even your one perk was corrupt intervention and played nurse
it doesn't make sense to me if survivor is good as i know
And right here is the problem. This mindset. It doesn't matter how good the survivor is or how well they play or even if they outplay the hell out of you... You think they should lose regardless. If that's the case then gen times need to be faster, not slower.
...wut? They reduced the size of swamp, corn, red forest maps in the last couple years. Where you been?
Correct. The one making the better plays is supposed to win. If the killer outplays the survivor, they should win. If the survivor outplays the killer, they should get away. It's not that hard of a concept. If you're chasing someone and not getting anywhere, why are you still chasing them? Find someone else easier to down.
The topic is not about killers you can "hold w" against. Which, by the way, is not how you run from someone. You end up strafing a lot as you look behind you constantly. If you lose to someone holding W exclusively, that's definitely a "you" problem.
Ahem. Anyway. The topic is about getting things to interact with the ranged killers. Getting lucky wiggling back and forth to avoid a ranged attack doesn't make you feel like you're skilled, and often just let's the killer catch up to M1. The concern is on ranged killers in general. Fixing terrain so you can't shoot through walls (pyramid head aside) would be a good first step.
Way to read the title and nothing else.
Need protection from camping and tunneling
The current perks do not provide this.
They're suppose to delay tunneling not stop it if that's what you mean.
Only one that seems smaller from old videos I have seen of it and what I play on now is swamp Red forest and Farm still seem the same to me tbh, but swamp has other issues that I wont go into details about....
I gave you a solution to your problem, holding W in a straight line is literally the meta right now, so that is how you run from someone. The best counter play available to this killer and other anti-loop killers is to leave loops and hold W. If they are anti-loop then stop trying to loop, that doesn't make them unbeatable. Good survivors beat them just fine, so no survivors don't "need" more defenses, the ones they have are more than enough if played correctly.
The Highest tier players in the game are losing to holding W, so no its not a "me" problem lol. If using the meta strat on the stronger side you still can't win against killers, that's a you problem not a problem with the survivors defenses.
Holding 'w' is not an option for two reasons, the killer is faster and the killer does not have to turn to avoid obstacles, the simply slide sideways. By the nature of the way the game was built, with killer in first person and survivor in third, looping was intended as the way to escape. Loops help the survivor because they have a bigger picture of the surroundings, the killer does not. Survivors can turn and see where they are going before they turn, killers can only see forward. By adding killers who can kill loops, it is changing the games dynamics.
"looping was intended as the way to escape"
Looping was never intended to be part of the game. It came along due to the bad map design. The perspective difference is there because they intended the game to be closer to hide and seek. By the way, killer also slows down for a moment when switching directions.
Holding W is definitely an option. Killer takes too long to catch up, again its literally the meta right now.
Have you literally been in a coma or what? They reworked maps around a year ago which aimed at making them smaller, removing infinites and removing certain pallets/windows to remove those loops.
Literally look no further than red dead dawg saloon????
THANK YOU.
If you lose to someone walking in a straight line when you are faster and have ranged abilities, that is *definitely* a you problem.
Or was this a half-brained attempt to get people to try doing this so you get easy downs? The only time you want to do that is when Legion just frenzy hit someone behind you. You want to just outrun his frenzy. Aside from that, you might as well stand still and go down, cause you're only buying like 10 seconds.
I don't get your point. How is running straight with a faster killer behind you, watching you just run straight until you hit a wall, going to help you escape. Surly looping behind walls, jumping windows and using pallets to give you extra space will help better. I have played against "w" survivors, they don't take very long to catch, in you can have a couple before the first gen, however I have looped for 2 or three gens, before losing the killer. If you are a killer that loses to somebody running in straight line then you are not a good killer.
As to the perspective angle, I highly doubt that when the developers came up with the idea of the game, they sat down and thought "I know, we have all the first person shooters, a good game of hide and seek would be great", in that case why have gens, why have tool boxes and med kits, why hooks and why a horror them. You say loops was added, then the hide and seek would have been a very boring game, with just a big field. Spawn in, look over map, found you, next game.
Yes holding 'w' is and option, after looping and when you have made some space, to get to the next loop, to the next window or pallet or just when the killer has lost you.
I personally think you need to sit down with youtube, watch people like Ayrun, JRM, Otz, or the many other DBD Youtubers, as killer or survivor, see how many of them run in a straight line, see if they think that is a better idea.
If you are playing killer and losing people who run in a straight line then you are having a very bad day. If you are a survivor and your play is to run in a straight line then you are probably hit a lot.
As regards to the killer slowing down when switching directions, you just made my point. When you run in a straight line the killer is faster, as soon as the survivor takes a turn, the killer does not have to turn much, they slide, keeping up speed. Go to a loop and the killer is slower, they can't vault windows fast, the can't vault pallets, it takes time to break them or go round.
I'm not attempting to get people to do this they already are. Again this is the meta, if you don't know that you're simply uniformed and don't know what you're talking about.
Do you want a video link explaining it more are should I not even bother? You'd probably be better off just searching up the "hold W" yourself because you're clearly not listening to me.
Because the killer is only 15% faster, so it takes long enough that by the time they get to you the gens are flying. I guess you're calling every streamer and high tier killer player "bad" lol.
The gens are the escape objective, the only thing they intended was for you to drop a pallet and keep running straight. It was poorly designed and thought out, but ask the devs not me.
Looping wasn't "added" its just a byproduct of map design.
" see if they think that is a better idea."
At least a few of them have stated the strength of survivors running forward and just dropping pallets, so maybe you should watch more of their videos and pay more attention. I can link you a scott video if you want, his is the most recent I have viewed..
If the survivor turns a corner the killer also has to turn that corner, they don't turn less. They lose speed either way.
You use the vaults and pallets to keep running forward. It is the meta for a reason. If you care enough search it up yourself about the "hold W" meta. You'll find more info than I can give in 1 thread.
I'm really not bothering to try to explain. There are enough people on here telling you that you are wrong. If you don't want to learn then just carry on as you are.
As people have told you, if you are a losing people running in a straight line, that's a you problem.
You can even remove a useless key and give something useful in return - this is an item in your hand
You can also add oil tanks that can be thrown onto the killer, thereby slowing him down - this is another save mechanic
Read the post, just don't think there's any reason to contest killer designs or a need to add new defenses when the ones we have still hold strong. Aside from that there are strategies to address anti-loop and still burn the killer's time.
Where'd you see the nerfs
I don't remember them making maps smaller besides rancid and pale rose and with the map changes they just add a boatload of pallets, safe loops and god pallets
There's literally 2 people and that's including you lmao. You know what I have more evidence/people for?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fv1rD82kmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyOnXF6BtfQ^ that one everyone suggest guess what? Hold W.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNGrTbNWbE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35k-wzB_5sUAt this point its on you to look further into it or continue to be willfully ignorant. Its not "just 10 seconds" it can be upwards of 50-70+
It was at the same time that breakable walls were added, where a TON of infinities were blocked off or said walls got added - it was around the same time that deathslinger was released.
Thank you I know I'm not crazy and being told by op and another saying otherwise I know what I see.
Please dont say that name.....I have faced enough of them after the SBMM release for a lifetime.
Well, you clearly are because all the changes happened right after the Slinger chapter. Have you ever even experienced the infinites on Hawkins and Saloon????????
I'm sorry, but why would the focus ever solely be around a 1%?
We should be looking at the broad spectrum - It's not like im suggesting killer nerfs that will screw over killers that dont fit into the category. I'm literally saying that we should have alternative sources if they aim on releasing killer after killer that denies the primary source of running a killer.
Yes I have and on other maps too
Because the more people play the game the better they get? If you balance for the low ranks and mid ranks (like the devs have been doing) you start having problems at the higher rank because things made to help noobs become really exploitable and games get sweatier for whichever side isn't benefiting it leading to people eventually leaving because of balance reasons or lack of fun
I've been playing a lot of Killer and I have to tell you that while I'm having the time of my life with Nurse trashing almost everytime, I want to strangle myself whenever I try to play an M1 killer. Hag, Nurse, Spirit, Blight, even Billy with Brutal Strength, Enduring can somewhat deny loops for survivors, but I try to play anything else and unless I bring a loop-denying build, I have no chance with M1 killers at all. It's just absolutely frustrating to play anything else other than Nurse, Blight or Hag right now. Hell even Huntress can be bad sometimes, because she slows down to the walking pace of a snail when she readies her hatchet.
And this is all because survivors rely too much on looping as it is a braindead tactic basically. All you have to do is hold shift, W and A or D and wait for the right moment to press E to dab forward like a cringy kid and drop a pallet to then tbag in front of the killer. Majority of the survivors have no brain capacity when it comes to making intriguing builds.
Why is Shift a bad word?
Well thank you for showing me a video about the new killer. I mean we will forget about all the other killers in the game, and the amount of people who play the game and actually loop.
But it's nice to know what sort of person you are. You make me proud to be me and know the people I know.
I could quote every comment that said that you are wrong, but that would just be a waste of time.
I know, I will speak to the wall instead and have a better conversation.
Nope. Game should favor Killers, if you're smart you'd realize that
Bruh that video talked about how strong W key was as well and how its about to get stronger, along with all the other post and the other videos (first and last in particular break it down) I shared that are exclusively about W holding in the game at large being a meta strategy. It affect the vast majority of the killer cast way more than the new one. Any killer that's not Nurse, Blight, Artist, Spirit, and arguably 1 or 2 more Struggle with it.
But no you want to nit pick at some of the surrounding content and pretend the rest didn't happen. Like ah yes, all of that is about the new killer, even the majority of it that's from before she even existed and doesn't mention her.
"the amount of people who play the game and actually loop"
Yes people like to loop, how does that change how strong running forward is? Especially against anti-loop killers. Whose ignoring them? Why are you ignoring them? If you want to try an loop the killer than go ahead, but don't try to make the argument that's all you can possibly do when you have a strong alternative. You might not like it but its there. If a killer is specifically an anti-loop killer than you're just shooting yourself in the foot by trying to loop them.
"But it's nice to know what sort of person you are."
What does that even mean? Yes I'm trying to educate you on the meta and the game. I guess that's bad now. Better leave people like you just spouting incorrect nonsense and not even open a dialog because how dare anyone insinuate their multiple uniformed statements possibly be incorrect.
"Holding 'w' is not an option" incorrect
"looping was intended as the way to escape" incorrect. Would have been better were that true, but its not. By extension the whole perspective argument was incorrect since it had a faulty basis.
"holding 'w' is and option, after looping" mostly (2/3) incorrect and also contradicting you original point, you can hold W before, after, or without looping depending on the situation.
"I could quote every comment that said that you are wrong, but that would just be a waste of time."
I literally sent you multiple threads with a bunch of different people saying you're wrong on the first page alone and from the title post. Not just 2 from this 1 thread, but speaking of this thread here are some that mention it specifically:
"Because that's really most of the problem with the hold "w" meta." First page.
A little below my latest response and 3 above from yours someone else said " All you have to do is hold shift, W and A or D" and how its too strong unless they are playing Nurse, making M1 killers just unviable.
said comments:
You're covering your eyes and choosing to be ignorant and unreasonably stubborn at this point. You're ignoring the vast majority of the post. Over the conversation all together you have been strawmaning and eventually just devolving into trying to discredit my character instead of my argument.
Rough order of the conversation in a "you // me" format:
People do not like the hold W meta, its boring and unskillful for both sides. But yeah lets ignore the problem because some survivor players can't even run in a straight line right and die instantly.
Holding W is meta and is strong and is an option. Survivors don't need more resources since they have more than enough available to counter killers as well as alternatives. That doesn't mean you're going to like it, but they don't need it.
If you were just uniformed then that's one thing but you're actively ignoring information.
Heres another quick ~2 minuet video explaining it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyDa9ZoyHM
Then you would know that maps got reworked to remove those. So i have no idea why you're still denying the reworks.
The more people play, and the more better they get, the more the average 'skill' point gets. You shouldnt ever solely balance around a statistic that is impossible for the large majority to reach.
The same logic can be used against you. All you have to do is hold W and press M1..
If you want a legit response, dont downplay the other side first.
It is necessary to add a holy land where the aura of the survivors will be hidden and the killers on it will slow down
You're not crazy, The map reworks weren't exactly always amazing. We have things like Badham and The Game, very safe maps.
"If you want a legit response, dont downplay the other side first."
This I agree with
" All you have to do is hold W and press M1.."
This isn't viable against good survivors unfortunately, adding more resources would just exacerbate the problem unless you somehow make it only usable against anti-loop killers specifically. Even then you'd have killers who have anti-loop but still loses due to gen speeds and map size, so you'd be making killers who already don't usually win against a team that knows what to do even worse.
Most maps are still currently too big and/or have to many resources for the vast majority of the killer roster. Survivors are still the power role, they don't need more resources at this time.
Maps were reworked to take out literal infinites, but they also have a boatload of safe pallets and windows as well as structures you can loop for a very long time to the point its better to just not even attempt to as killer. So they still aren't where they need to be to start considering making them even stronger.
And I simply do not agree because we shouldn't be looking at one section of players.
A good survivor, will (or ideally should) go against a good killer. You won't necessarily have games with a killer that already struggles being played against a good set of survivors.
I don't agree about survivors being the power role either, to be quite honest.
I just played on dead dawg last night and was caught in a infinity loop. Gideon still has so many pallets you dont need loops or windows. I'll say the obvious RPD is still a large nightmare for any killer to be on. Blackwater still has those nightmare loops under the Docks and Buildings. Farm is still large enough that survivors can repair Gens on the opposite side of the map and are safe to work on. The Combine machines on the farm maps are Semi Infinite loops if you dont know the secret to break the loops.
You told me to take off my Killer-Tinted Glasses, I play Killer and Survivor equally and can safely tell you to take off your Survivor-Tinted glasses and look at how many things are actually in maps still that are in Survivor's favor. Survivors dont need any other things to help them out with dealing with Killers, what Survivors need to do is.....
Survivors already have everything they need to win unless your facing a God-Nurse then I suggest to just have fun with any chases. I like many Killers also like the fun with the chases, so unless we have a Rift or Daily for kills will tend to play more silly and have fun with Survivors. Last night I was playing Demo and at end game collapse was being chased by 2 survivors as if I was being hunted by them, in the end we all had fun and one decided to let me have her as a K.
Not to mention RCPD and the docks and buildings in Blackwater lol
We shouldn't be looking at one section of players, so we also can't screw over the games where there's good players just for the bad ones. Ideally we'd be making changes to help the bad players without making the good ones stronger or at least minimizing how much stronger they get. Adding even more resources would be way too much of a buff when that's already a problem with the current amount once you get to just a decent level.
Yes good survivors should be against good killers, and the the killer usually loses because survivor is stronger. That's a problem as well.
Its widely known and agreed that survivors are stronger than the killer once they know what they're doing and weaker when they don't. There's way too much evidence to say otherwise especially ever since SBMM got put into the game.
The problem with the "killer that struggles" is that it encompasses the vast majority of the killer cast. Every killer outside of Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and arguably 1 or 2 more, are just not viable due to resource amount and time to down compared to gen speeds. That's way too much of the cast that just falls behind.
You can't really fix people not playing correctly and being worse as a result without screwing the other side. The most you can do is try to give them more tools to play better, like a ping/callout system or something. Throwing resources at just one side is just going to screw over killers even harder.
I understand you're frustrated about not being able to loop the new killers, but likewise killers are frustrated that loops and safe pallets are still too strong and plentiful. Throwing more resources in just isn't the solution as far as I can see. Yes it'd be better for the survivors, but killer would be made even more miserable of an experience than it already is.
Don't survivors already have a bunch second chance perks/resources and pallets/loops/windows? Why do they need more and at what point would you say they have enough?
Why do you think that currently second chance perks are a necessity?
What happened to stealth? Have trouble looping? Stealth around jungle gyms/objects before the killers sees you. NOED pops and you cant find the totem? Stealth until you A. open a gate or B. Find the totem. Really, if people started to learn to hide instead of engaging in chases, we wouldnt need 10 second chance perks and 25 pallets per map. Im not saying become one with the bush every time you hear a terror radius, but use it when it is necessary. I escape 75% of my surv matches without any meta perks, other than Prove Thyself and occasionally Quick and Quiet.