Basic attack restriction on Jolt/Surge

Foodnt

Every time i use Jolt/Surge i ask myself why does it only activate on a basic attack. Hysteria got changed for example, why not Jolt/Surge

Chilli_man2400

@Foodnt said:

Every time i use Jolt/Surge i ask myself why does it only activate on a basic attack. Hysteria got changed for example, why not Jolt/Surge

And let’s not forget they just buffed Blood favor and 3rd seal to work on both attacks so the fact Surge wasn’t buffed is astounding

jesterkind

I support Surge getting buffed. Especially now that it's a generic perk- makes sense that the whole roster should be able to use it properly.

YOURFRIEND

It doesn't really need the cooldown either.

Yords

@Chilli_man2400 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/292524/basic-attack-restriction-on-jolt-surge

And let’s not forget they just buffed Blood favor and 3rd seal to work on both attacks so the fact Surge wasn’t buffed is astounding

I completely forgot they buffed third seal

Foodnt

@YOURFRIEND said:

It doesn't really need the cooldown either.

i think the cooldown is ok maybe they can buff the regression on a gen when you down a survivor

landromat

Either cooldown or basic attack restriction should go

White_Owl

If they remove the basic attack restriction I would use it literally on every killer, I just love that perk...

TWiXT

This is part of my suggestions post for fixing old, bad, or outdated killer perks:

Surge/Jolt:

Remove the cooldown and the Basic Attack requirement.

Explanation - Honestly this has been hotly debated in the forums since Surge/jolt came out because the fact remains that in order to activate it at all, you have to successfully down a survivor while within range of a gen. Chasing and downing a survivor with Basic attacks takes enough time as it is, especially if they were healthy when the chase started, and the minor 8% damage Surge does if it activates is hardly consequential since it would take 12 survivor downs in order to achieve a stacked 96% damage to 1 or more gens. PGTW does 300% damage to gens in the same amount of hooks, and Ruin Does more damage per second without needing to down or hook a survivor. On average it takes a decent m1 killer 20 seconds to down a survivor, and that's not counting the time to find the survivor to chase and down in the first place, but say you snowballed survivors 1 after the other within 20 seconds per chase, that's a maximum of 4 downs in 80 seconds, and a total of 32% damage between multiple gens since survivors won't stay around a downed survivor, much less a gen if getting chased, so overall... you spread the damage out over a possible 4 gens at most over 80 seconds, and that's the best case scenario if this change was implemented. While this won't improve the overall damage Surge can do, removing the basic attack requirement will at least allow killers with damaging powers to get some use out of it making it more universal to the killer roster, and removing the cooldown will allow it to become a slightly more consistent annoyance to survivors. It won't make it any more powerful than any other existing gen defense perks, but at least it would be more useful.

You can find the original post here:

@TWiXT said:

Suggested changes:

Monstrous Shrine:

Buff the perk to - Survivors have 3 less escape attempts, and sacrifice progresses 25% faster when hooked in the basement.

Explanation - 25% of 2 mins is 30 seconds, or subtracting 15 seconds from each hook phase so 45 seconds per hook phase total, adding in the fact that unless the survivors bring in Slippery Meat, they'll have to be rescued by their teammates... This makes being hooked in the basement a much more dire situation than current Monstrous Shrine.

Sometime after Hag came out the devs doubled the hook time from 1 min to 2 meaning survivors used to only have 30 seconds per hook phase, And current monstrous Shrine was designed with these the old timings in mind but was still underwhelming even back then. This suggestion is a sort of middle ground between how hooking used to be in the early days of the game, and how it is now, while only applying to the basement hooks, and finally giving Monstrous Shrine the buff it needs to be a threat that creates urgency for the survivor team.

Spies From the Shadows:

Overhaul the perk to - The Crows no longer respond to your presence, you see the auras of all crows within 36 meters of you, and disturbed crows are 100% louder to you within that range.

Explanation - This proposal gets rid of the confusing/annoying explosion sound notifications and replaces it by making the crows noisier so you can differentiate between them and a gen popping, you get no false signals since crows no longer respond to you, and they basically become little signal flares to tell you where survivors are. If this change were to happen, Spies would become an overall better tracking tool, and really fit the description of the perk which says: "The Crows found in the world can communicate directly with you." Besides, survivors still have 2 perks that defeat this: Calm Spirit & Urban Evasion, as well as the crouching mechanic, so it's not like this would be an un-counterable or broken change for the perk. If they also put some more crows in dead zones, that would be nice for helping this perk gain a better level of consistency and usefulness (Seriously, Rotten fields features no Scarecrows, but the crows completely avoid the corn field... #########?).

Surge:

Remove the cooldown and the Basic Attack requirement.

Explanation - Honestly this has been hotly debated in the forums since Surge came out because the fact remains that in order to activate Surge at all, you have to successfully down a survivor while within range of a gen. Chasing and downing a survivor with Basic attacks takes enough time as it is, especially if they were healthy when the chase started, and the minor 8% damage Surge does if it activates is hardly consequential since it would take 12 survivor downs in order to achieve a stacked 96% damage to 1 or more gens. PGTW does 300% damage to gens in the same amount of hooks, and Ruin Does more damage per second without needing to down or hook a survivor. While this won't improve the overall damage Surge can do, removing the basic attack requirement will at least allow killers with damaging powers to get some use out of it making it more universal to the killer roster, and removing the cooldown will allow it to become a slightly more consistent annoyance to survivors. It won't make it any more powerful than any other existing gen defense perks, but at least it would be more useful.

Oppression:

Remove or significantly lower the cooldown.

Explanation - This perk doesn't even add extra damage to the gens it affects (unless survivors fail the "Difficult" skill check), only applies the base regression rate, and can randomly target gens that have 0 progress on them, but for some awful reason the devs decided that it was so powerful that it deserved DOUBLE the cooldown time (80 seconds) of Surge? At least Surge won't activate on gens that have 0 progress... Why does Oppression deserve such an excessive cooldown time? If it's because of the skill check, that's a laughable annoyance more than anything that could be considered a threat to any decent-good survivors, and only becomes a problem against noobs, who honestly rank up and gain skill fast enough that it's pretty much a moot point to keep it so laughably underpowered.

Fire Up:

Buff the perk- Increase it from 4% to 5%.

Explanation - This is a ridiculously underpowered perk because in order to gain any benefit from it, the killer has to sacrifice the objectives they are supposed to protect, in other words "lose the game". It's designed to give killers a slight edge in chases in order to try and protect the last gens from completing. The overall problem however is that 4% amounts to 12% when 3 gens are completed, and 20% when all 5 are done, meaning that they gain Brutal Strengths chase advantage on pallet breaking only after the survivors have completed all of the gens when there's not many unused pallets left in the map, and Bamboozles vault speed advantage when there is only 1 gen remaining. This doesn't help the killers in their desperate attempts to stop the final gens from completion at all, and by the time it's reached its maximum potential, the survivors are already rushing out the gate.

However, if you bump it up just 1%... now we have a perk that gains Bamboozles advantage at 2 gens remaining, and Brutal Strengths at 1 gen remaining, with an added bonus to both if 0 gens remain. This would actually help the killers defend the final gens, and give them enough of a chase advantage if all gens are completed to try and stop the survivors from escaping. Suddenly this goes from an "underpowered" perk to a "Decent" one, and all it takes is a simple 1% boost in strength.

Insidious:

Overhaul the perk to - Reduces your Terror Radius and Red Stains Brightness by 5% for every 4/3/2 seconds you refrain from chasing or injuring survivors, upon reaching 100% reduction, you gain the Undetectable Status. Initiating a chase or injuring a survivor regains your TR and Red stain at a rate of 20% per second, once this has returned Insidious has a 40 second cooldown.

Explanation - This perk has been a bane on the game since it came out since it seems to have been specifically designed for the sole purpose of camping hooks. With this change however, a killer loses half their TR for spending 10 seconds away from a chase or injuring a survivor, and becomes Undetectable at 20 seconds. This is mostly meant for anti-stealth play, or for gaining a slight advantage in the early game wherein the killer is initially searching the map for survivors. Ultimately, it changes the perk from one encouraging camping, to one that rewards the killer with an advantage if the survivors are being too sneaky/evasive, and allows them to get the drop on survivors more often. The cooldown is necessary for this one because otherwise it would be heavily abuseable.

As for the survivors going up against this updated version, Premonition or Spine Chill still proc on stealth killers, so relying solely on the TR reduction is still no guarantee against those kinds of perks, and gives the survivors an advantage. Up until then, unless the killer has spent 20 seconds avoiding survivors, Aura reading perks like OoO, Alert, and Kindred still have an advantage for tracking the killer.

That's my list so far. Anyone else want to contribute your own ideas, or criticize the concepts I've listed? Feel free to speak up!

lauraa

I'd sooner prefer to see Jolt Cola lose its CD before Special Attackers can use it.

I cant be the only one.

Predated

@YOURFRIEND said:

It doesn't really need the cooldown either.

Yeah, it kinda does, because it can be stacked with Ruin and Pop. Ruin and Pop are the reason all other genregression perks are weak and have cooldowns.

I would gladly see all genregression perks being buffed massively if it also nerfs Ruin and Pop

YOURFRIEND

@Predated said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615051#Comment_2615051

Yeah, it kinda does, because it can be stacked with Ruin and Pop. Ruin and Pop are the reason all other genregression perks are weak and have cooldowns.

I would gladly see all genregression perks being buffed massively if it also nerfs Ruin and Pop

This is not how this works. If you down a survivor near a gen with ruin up then you can chase the survivors off the gen as well, causing it to regress massively. The surge proc is inconsequential with ruin in play. If surge procs then you cannot Pop the gen it hit, as it's now regressing.

Regression perks are not just a mindless, blanket category. They work differently than one another and not always in conjunction.

danielmaster87

@YOURFRIEND said:

It doesn't really need the cooldown either.

I can imagine people complaining about that still. "It's so unfair! The killer gets multiple downs AND regresses the gens each time!" When that's literally their fault.

TAG

@Predated said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615051#Comment_2615051

Yeah, it kinda does, because it can be stacked with Ruin and Pop. Ruin and Pop are the reason all other genregression perks are weak and have cooldowns.

I would gladly see all genregression perks being buffed massively if it also nerfs Ruin and Pop

Make it so it doesn't affect gens that are already regressing.

Boom, now it's safe to remove cooldown and basic attack requirement.

VicThor

@danielmaster87 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2615051#Comment_2615051

I can imagine people complaining about that still. "It's so unfair! The killer gets multiple downs AND regresses the gens each time!" When that's literally their fault.

Even though it can be easily countered by taking the killer away from the gen... I don't think so Jolt would be overpowered if we remove the restriction and cool down. It has a small radius already

Kira4Evr

Yea, Surge should definitely activate on special attacks. And I would also love to see it have a shorter cooldown. Maybe 25 - 30 seconds instead of 40

Mandy

076c7066-92e3-41db-9cbb-3669725c7950

No comment on whether it should be a power attack or a base one for me, just want to give you a code to make your Demo look cute in game

nikodemo

Attack type restriction and cooldown can both go.

Buff this cool perk, please.

ReverseVelocity

@[Deleted User] said:

surge my beloved

if only surge didn't have a basic attack requirement, then we could get Mix Tape value and surge value at the same time

nikodemo

Especially as a General Perk now available to everyone, it would be good to make this perk standout for common gen regression.

Hunter_Main_322

@Mandy said:

076c7066-92e3-41db-9cbb-3669725c7950

No comment on whether it should be a power attack or a base one for me, just want to give you a code to make your Demo look cute in game

better fix getting damage in windows

sizzlingmario4

I would be okay with it working on any down.

The cooldown is fine as it is though if you add special attacks to it, especially considering it can stack with ruin.

BenihimeWrath

Not only should any attack trigger Jolt, but instant downs that go straight from healthy to dying should proc double regression. There I said it.

Just please for the love of god have some sort of gen regression other than pop/ruin thats worth using.

anarchy753

Ok, there's some perks that would be stupidly strong if you let it go off with powers like Billy, Bubba or Oni that can really rapidly capitalise off quick successive one-hit downs. Like, wouldn't it be stupid if they could use Infectious Fright to reveal the next target over and over and just chain downs based on a perk? OH WAIT that's allowed.

OR it would be a bit overpowered if you let the really strong killers trigger perks reliably without having to resort to being an M1 killer. It helps bring M1 killers up a bit by having a tool that might not be as effective on the top tier killers. Except, OH WAIT, Nurse and Spirit both trigger those perks on every single hit, where killers like PIG are punished for using her ambush.

But you know, the part that really makes it necessary is that Surge would be a little strong if you chained 3 downs in a small area, and all of a sudden 3 generators just were just reduced by 25%. OH WAIT, no they wouldn't be, because it also has a cooldown. But hey, if you get 3 downs with Pop, 3 generators are reduced by 25%.

DBD78

Remove cooldown instead I mean it's not a god perk and Pop is better. This perk do need a buff and so do other gen regression perks at current state of the game.

Foodnt

@Hunter_Main_322 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2616121#Comment_2616121

better fix getting damage in windows

what?