Just admit it doesn't work.
Behavior, please, for the sake of the community and everyone involved, admit that SBMM(MMR) Is not gonna work and it is so very clear all we've seen these past tests is more examples of failure and now you guys cannot even get the system working properly. Seriously, just give it up.
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It was working great for me the last time they turned it on.
The only people who are scared of it are the tryhards.
The thing is though mmr works in other games because there is a ranked mode where people know what they're getting into and most have casual modes as well. They would have to split queues to add ranked and it would tank queue times. The only game I can think of that enforces mmr no matter the mode is COD and it basically ruined any fun in that game. I pray it isn't the engagement based match making bs they use because that stuff killed my enjoyment of the game.
Other games that are symmetrical. Evolve was an Asymmetrical game where they focused on MMR and turning it into Esport. That focus became one of the reason it died as The 4 "Player" working together perfectly would mean that the "Monster" will never stand a chance. (If this sounds familiar then MMR is a bad idea)
Don't compare Competitive symmetrical games with DBD. A Good Killer will never win against a Good Survivor Team on a Survivor Sided Map. If you're gonna compare 1v4 to 5v5 or 4v4. Can someone else carry the Killer?
Sure there's RNG on those games but RNG in DBD means that a Map can have 20+ Pallets to only 8 Pallets!
A layman's opinion doesn't carry the same weight as an expert's. If the expert says it can be done, based on their knowledge and understanding of the problem, and the layman says it can't because it's taking too long and they don't see how it can be done, the expert is invariably correct. As an example, look at the Wright Brothers.
Yeah, everyone can tell their opinion, the question is how much it is worth.
MMR and RNG can't work...
Just like people will not be able to travel without horses, won't be able to ever fly, won't ever be able to get to space, etc.
Just because you think it is impossible, it can be very easily possible.
"first time" its development has started almost 2 years ago in 2 months and there has been several tests and data collecting over the months
It's a complex system, it's going to take some time. The game also had several changes in those years, so the system also had to be changed.
The general changes of the game does not influence by any instance the matchmaking system
I'm pretty sure at least one killer had their power completely redesigned in that time. Since MMR is going to be killer-specific, it'd need to be adapted.
the system does not work like that. It's simple:
You die a lot to x killer?
Your past matches have been optimal from your side?
That's all, and I can assure you I saw myself how those points works and why Hillbilly has been bugged the past 3 tests with the same mistake every time
I wasn't aware that they'd made the algorithm public. Where did you get this information?
it's not public but checkable by your own client with normal progams, not against the EULA
That'd be quite something, given that MMR is completely server-side.
I think the issue is honestly more on a certain part of the community:
those that right now get to read ranks through BM. how do you sort them with sbmm? Objectively they lack skill, but you can't put them with new players cause that'd be punishing new players.
What do you mean getting to red ranks with BM?
it's server sided and you can check the stats associated with your client after updating each one, anyone who studied high TIC level might be aware of these programs and regularly use them on their PCs to track their own connections and cookies
it is right now perfectly possible to rank up through excessive camping, tunneling and slugging. Seriously, you can get from yellow to red ranks in less than a week with bubba as soon as you got insidious and maybe noed. sometimes even without these. that's how much of a mess the pip system is
Oh ok I thought you meant like clicking and hitting on hook
You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical that you can know how an algorithm you have no access to works.
The devs have been collecting kill rates for years now. That information was always being gathered, it's not related to MMR.
That's not what I told you. You collect or lose points depending on how the match went and the killer you went against. Those points are saved to yourself not the general stats they show on streams
hitting on hook is frankly just silly... and I thiiiink some killers, even on red ranks, still believe it makes the progress go faster...
I'm pretty sure rank hasn't been stored on your end for some time now, but since I'm not completely sure, I'll drop it.
Exactly this. There is a lot of Killers in for a big surprise when their crutches (Camping/Tunneling) put them against survivors that actually know how to deal with it. These players that have been using crutches have stunted their growth playing this game and are basically exploiting the game to get much higher in rank than they deserve. Once a killer uses camping/tunneling, you know that killer is playing way beyond their ability and has really lost the game.
You can cheese the system by SWF. SWF will get an average MMR so if there's 1 really low MMR in the SWF that will automatically drop the average and make the system pick a killer that will have a lower MMR than the rest of the SWF should be facing.
Each killer having their own MMR is a huge problem. Think about new killer releases, an experienced killer player playing a brand new killer will have no MMR there, by the system's logic he'd be facing new survivors ...This is very wrong. Each killer can't have their own MMR or people will be switching killers very frequently to try and get easier matches. So by going around the system this way we're still creating scenarios where unfair matches are being organized. An experienced player on a low MMR killer means a tougher match for low MMR survivors and means 1 less high MMR killer to face high MMR survivors, which then makes the system open the MMR range so that the high MMR survivors find a killer, which turns out to be a lower MMR killer than they should otherwise be facing.
We don't need a whole new system, the system we have is good enough we just need to make that system have meaning. If the ranks meant something and there was real requirements for them then we'd have the right people in the right ranks.
They changed it last time to add a general rating, aka if you have a decent rating with other killers they won't throw you into a match with brand new players on a killer you're unranked with, just ones with lower rankings than if you were playing your mains
And you will only be able to cheese the new system for so long.
Right now, you can continually cheese the new system.
IMO i want them to keep them trying until it works, I think more balanced matchmakings could be good if they tackle the problems that could come from it.
Look at fornite that game was alive for a while and had a comp scene. Guess what its rng heavy too. So stop crying about it, you cant stop it Bhvr is going to do it
Every test they've run so far has been a positive experience for me. Way better than the rank based matchmaking.
My experience was overall positive as well. Mind you, the first couple matches were kind of a fiesta because the game doesn't know what to do with you at first, but once those wrinkles got ironed out I was quite pleased.
I'm not invalidating the expert opinion, but what I'm still saying a laymans opinion still matters, especially since what the "experts" in this case the programmers are designing is a system for the laymans meaning their feedback on it still matters since they are the target audience for the end product, sure while ops feedback of its taking too long scrap it doesn't match what I think since I would prefer it scrapped for different ways I still think their opinion matters
Well since the person in this case is of the audience that the people with the expert opinion would create a system for I say it does matter a ok amount, but could matter more if it had better reasoning instead of its taking too long but its still an alright opinion.
OP didn't share an opinion, they made a claim, that the MMR doesn't work, and therefore should be abandoned.
An opinion would be "I don't like the idea of MMR". What they said was that the devs should "just admit it doesn't work" (implying that the devs are lying to us and OP knows "the truth"). This is not an opinion, it is a claim, one that can be objectively looked at (and discarded, since experts say otherwise).
Still seems to be an opinionated claim which I interpreted as their opinion since its not the best claim
1. That's much better than the current situation, where you could have a SWF with ranks 1, 2, 4 and 17, and potentially get a rank 15-20 killer because of that rank 17. Of course it goes the other way too, but an averaged MMR is a lot more fair and consistent.
2. Absolutely disagree. The worst part of playing killer, for the vast majority of middle-skill players, is that it's too easy to rank up to purple by playing an "easy" killer like Spirit or Freddy (which you need to do grind BP effectively) and then get stuck facing nothing but red ranks for the rest of your DBD experience. When you're only an intermediate killer, and you can't even attempt to try a weaker killer like Demo or Plague etc. without getting stomped and teabagged.
This makes playing killer an awful experience for most players, and is why killler queues are usually abysmal except for later at night when there's nothing but SWFs anyway.
Killer specific MMR fixes this, because when you stop grinding BP with your higher MMR Spirit, and go to try out Bubba for the first time, you're not subjecting yourself to endless torture.
Having all players effectively start at 0 whenever a new killer comes out isn't a massive problem. It'll only be offset for a few matches, MMR corrects itself much quicker than rank, as it's not so dependent on play time. A few good matches would put you up into the higher skill quartile.
But an added effect of killer specific MMR is how stronger and weaker killets wil natural settle into their tiers (to an extent) and solve issues of some killers being weak and ithers being too strong.
You can play Spirit or Nurse or Thinkerer Blight and you'll be challenged for doing so, while you can also experiment with Demo or Plague or Clown without facing the teabag deathsquad. All killers will be viable, you no longer have to worry about playing a "weak" killer, as you will naturally settle into facing the survivor skill bracket that "weak" killer can do well against.
This was exactly my experience during the tests.
I played several games as Spirit, and although the first couple games were low and then higher skilled players, it only took about 3-4 matches before I settled against survivors of a comparable skill, which were reflected by mostly purple ranks.
Then I tried out Bubba for the first time, and after a few games (a few more than Spirit because I was still learning how to chainsaw) I settled against green/yellow survivors.
In both cases, our matches were fair, challenging, but not frustrating or unbalanced.