I still don't know why they haven't endorsed it yet, this has been the coolest unintended mechanic I have ever seen in dbd
The best reasons I've read here so far are that is wasn't intended, there's serious doubt it is counterable, and the fact that it cannot and will never be able to be done on console.
What about nurse fatigue cancellation? PH mini mories on already escaped survivors?
Those are in a realm of their own, nurse with no fatigue would be alright but still has cooldowns from her power so its effect is just lose a bit less distance, and ph one is idk
J-flick tho, pretty cool literally only works in 2 situations but its the sickest thing to watch, and its completely overshadowed by bump logic, and if it gets removed and all that's left is bump logic to work towards, it will be a sad day, then a really powerful thousand year reign a few months later
The best reasons I've read here so far are that is wasn't intended, there's serious doubt it is counterable, and the fact that it cannot and will never be able to be done on console.
Unintended designs have been implemented into games the past, combos in fighting games because they were both fun and challenging (wow fun and challenging I wonder if thats a way to describe j-flicks)
Yes it is extremely counterable j-flicks only manage to counter "optimal" looping but have an extremely small hitbox and area which they actually cover since blights rush only has 3 hitboxes, one large hitbox right at the start of the attack that you can't use when j-flicking, one small hitbox which is held for a long time that literally can only hit something inside you, and on medium hitbox that can hit a little bit in front of you right at the end, if you abuse the fact that the middle and end of a j-flick has little to no hitbox you just treat it like oni when his flick was reduced to 30° and you know the area which you have to dodge or first play around bump logic then play around j-flicks by looping more widely or dodging out to the side or behind the blight as the small hitboxes make it easy.
They still need to fix console blight sensitivity, this is still a pc game on its original platform if we limit design space because devs still don't have keyboard and mouse support on the horizon, blight can't even manage more than 45° on console and has been that way since the chapter release, they still even need to fix his default but I don't here anyone calling for that to be addressed
The best reasons I've read here so far are that is wasn't intended, there's serious doubt it is counterable, and the fact that it cannot and will never be able to be done on console.
The devs already said it will be fixed and i don't think the community has any input on this whatsoever.
That's not my mentality about it, ill give up on it when its gone but until then I will not stop arguing for it since I think its a wonderful mechanic. Giving up even a slim chance of input is worse then having no input at all. As someone who wholly understands the mechanic I am proud to stand by the complicated but right information about it rather than the simple but wrong answers everyone clings to as a point to have it removed or their simple but boring answers since games aren't meant to be boring.
It will be but there's really no reason too because people just want to run mindlessly around small objects to "counter" blight when eventually he will get a 90 flick on you.
That's not my mentality about it, ill give up on it when its gone but until then I will not stop arguing for it since I think its a wonderful mechanic. Giving up even a slim chance of input is worse then having no input at all. As someone who wholly understands the mechanic I am proud to stand by the complicated but right information about it rather than the simple but wrong answers everyone clings to as a point to have it removed or their simple but boring answers since games aren't meant to be boring.
Then let's talk J-flick.
Its counter-play is to side-step out of correct pathing on the tile before blight has even committed to the j-flick. This works, however, if the blight doesn't j-flick you have put yourself in a poor position and have given an opportunity to give a hit if Blight doesn't j-flick. Blight gets his power up quickly, especially if the killer is managing the rushes well.
There aren't many Blight players that use it in the first place but I've had a couple games where I've versed a good blight player that makes impeccable use of j-flicks and the gameplay goes like this:
Every fast vault setup is hit pressure for the j-flicking Blight. Take the T L wall for example, running that tile correctly blight can attempt to j flick around the corner to make the hit in like a fifth of the time he should normally have to commit to the tile. Your options are to take the fast vault or sidestep the window. If blight doesn't j flick and you have sidestepped you are going to medium vault or continue the loop and have given distance for free. If blight couldn't do this every 6.5 seconds (fatigue + 2 tokens cooldown base); it wouldn't be that much of an issue.
This interaction is on a killer that already is incredibly versatile and already has hit pressure as soon as a tile is exhausted or the pallet has been used (hell blight even gets to destroy pallets in power).
My argument is I don't think it's healthy to have such a wildly different dynamic against a killer beause someone is making use of unintended mechanics. J flicks takes away a weakness intended for the killer and his design got so much praise before the exploit was discovered. Killers that just dominate on every tile on every map (looking at you spirit and god nurse) is uninteractive.
BHVR's decision to remove it isn't because it's unintended. Wouldn't survivor moonwalking be removed yonks ago cos it's unintended?
Its counter-play is to side-step out of correct pathing on the tile before blight has even committed to the j-flick. This works, however, if the blight doesn't j-flick you have put yourself in a poor position and have given an opportunity to give a hit if Blight doesn't j-flick. Blight gets his power up quickly, especially if the killer is managing the rushes well.
There aren't many Blight players that use it in the first place but I've had a couple games where I've versed a good blight player that makes impeccable use of j-flicks and the gameplay goes like this:
Every fast vault setup is hit pressure for the j-flicking Blight. Take the T L wall for example, running that tile correctly blight can attempt to j flick around the corner to make the hit in like a fifth of the time he should normally have to commit to the tile. Your options are to take the fast vault or sidestep the window. If blight doesn't j flick and you have sidestepped you are going to medium vault or continue the loop and have given distance for free. If blight couldn't do this every 6.5 seconds (fatigue + 2 tokens cooldown base); it wouldn't be that much of an issue.
This interaction is on a killer that already is incredibly versatile and already has hit pressure as soon as a tile is exhausted or the pallet has been used (hell blight even gets to destroy pallets in power).
My argument is I don't think it's healthy to have such a wildly different dynamic against a killer beause someone is making use of unintended mechanics. J flicks takes away a weakness intended for the killer and his design got so much praise before the exploit was discovered. Killers that just dominate on every tile on every map (looking at you spirit and god nurse) is uninteractive.
BHVR's decision to remove it isn't because it's unintended. Wouldn't survivor moonwalking be removed yonks ago cos it's unintended?
It's a balance decision.
Alright counter point time
It is true that the counterplay to blights j-flick is to stop looping a tile optimally but just like the blight you can also read your enviroment around you to see if the blight has any other options, sometimes j-flicks are used to make up for bad tile layouts with no real way to play around it with a blight that has already committed to power, much like the blight can read the environment to determine if j-flick is an appropriate choice given the situation so can the survivor to even stronger effect, since they not only know that this is blights only option they know if they counter it the blight has no choice but to 115 chase or to attempt another j-flick that will likely fail as the survivor is still keen on them
It doesn't actually take all that much to dodge a j-flick as the hitbox split in to 3 parts, large starting hitbox, extremely small deathslinger harpoon side held lunge hitbox, and barely slightly bigger ending hitbox, as long as you know the blight would be mid attack you can basically do anything you want as long as you aren't in the 10° cone point blank from the blight and not get hit mid attack meaning even if its just predicting and losing a bit of distance you don't have to lose all that much as long as you run optimal while he is farther away
Most fast windows you can't even hit a j-flick on it only really applies to small walled windows, such as Z walls [ walls and the LT walls depending on the variety, but usually only the T wall. Even then this is still a 50/50 on both sides like playing the tile normally, where a j-flick doesn't cover both options and bump logic doesn't cover both options, its still in both players hands to play better than the other player and predict actions much like playing the tile normally.
The interaction described on a LT wall is just a killer brute forcing a LT wall they can still mindgame and wind up on top as long as they aren't facing extremely good survivors because decent - good survivors are extremely predictable which is where j-flick shines countering the beaten path loopers who do nothing but hug a tile optimally and play against blight as if he was any other m1 killer, because both bump logic and j-flicks hard counter them but j-flicks especially are designed against them, while bump logic is more universal
My argument for j-flicks is it offers multiple things to gameplay
a new interaction between killer and survivor that isn't just guaranteed optimal bump logic
an interaction where both players have input
an interaction that differentiates a killers patters from the rest and punishes players who play the exact say way against every killer even close to the m1 category
it is designed to punish players who don't adapt to play against their opponent, if you stick to beaten path looping it punishes you, if you start playing suboptimal or more unpredictably it rewards you
I think its a balanced mechanic with the ability for interaction and counterplay from both sides and opens up gameplay at tiles that normally would be run in the same boring way as every single other killer, but it is designed to punish people who run it in the same boring way while rewarding those who play in a more unique fashion
In my eyes it opens the possibility to force survivors to play more unique which from a gameplay standpoint makes it fresh and more interesting while still being fun to play as and in some peoples opinions against
Unintended designs have been implemented into games the past, combos in fighting games because they were both fun and challenging (wow fun and challenging I wonder if thats a way to describe j-flicks)
Yes it is extremely counterable j-flicks only manage to counter "optimal" looping but have an extremely small hitbox and area which they actually cover since blights rush only has 3 hitboxes, one large hitbox right at the start of the attack that you can't use when j-flicking, one small hitbox which is held for a long time that literally can only hit something inside you, and on medium hitbox that can hit a little bit in front of you right at the end, if you abuse the fact that the middle and end of a j-flick has little to no hitbox you just treat it like oni when his flick was reduced to 30° and you know the area which you have to dodge or first play around bump logic then play around j-flicks by looping more widely or dodging out to the side or behind the blight as the small hitboxes make it easy.
They still need to fix console blight sensitivity, this is still a pc game on its original platform if we limit design space because devs still don't have keyboard and mouse support on the horizon, blight can't even manage more than 45° on console and has been that way since the chapter release, they still even need to fix his default but I don't here anyone calling for that to be addressed
Stop.....you're asking players in Dead by Daylight (Survivors no less) to utilize skill.....you're asking for too much already. Stop it.
I still don't know why they haven't endorsed it yet, this has been the coolest unintended mechanic I have ever seen in dbd
It’s not an unintended mechanic when there is literally a cap on the turn rate to prevent blight from doing just that. People found a way to bypass this cap to “j flick” which is exploiting.
It’s not an unintended mechanic when there is literally a cap on the turn rate to prevent blight from doing just that. People found a way to bypass this cap to “j flick” which is exploiting.
wow thats such a great point counterpoint the word coolest
It is true that the counterplay to blights j-flick is to stop looping a tile optimally but just like the blight you can also read your enviroment around you to see if the blight has any other options, sometimes j-flicks are used to make up for bad tile layouts with no real way to play around it with a blight that has already committed to power, much like the blight can read the environment to determine if j-flick is an appropriate choice given the situation so can the survivor to even stronger effect, since they not only know that this is blights only option they know if they counter it the blight has no choice but to 115 chase or to attempt another j-flick that will likely fail as the survivor is still keen on them
It doesn't actually take all that much to dodge a j-flick as the hitbox split in to 3 parts, large starting hitbox, extremely small deathslinger harpoon side held lunge hitbox, and barely slightly bigger ending hitbox, as long as you know the blight would be mid attack you can basically do anything you want as long as you aren't in the 10° cone point blank from the blight and not get hit mid attack meaning even if its just predicting and losing a bit of distance you don't have to lose all that much as long as you run optimal while he is farther away
Most fast windows you can't even hit a j-flick on it only really applies to small walled windows, such as Z walls [ walls and the LT walls depending on the variety, but usually only the T wall. Even then this is still a 50/50 on both sides like playing the tile normally, where a j-flick doesn't cover both options and bump logic doesn't cover both options, its still in both players hands to play better than the other player and predict actions much like playing the tile normally.
The interaction described on a LT wall is just a killer brute forcing a LT wall they can still mindgame and wind up on top as long as they aren't facing extremely good survivors because decent - good survivors are extremely predictable which is where j-flick shines countering the beaten path loopers who do nothing but hug a tile optimally and play against blight as if he was any other m1 killer, because both bump logic and j-flicks hard counter them but j-flicks especially are designed against them, while bump logic is more universal
My argument for j-flicks is it offers multiple things to gameplay
a new interaction between killer and survivor that isn't just guaranteed optimal bump logic
an interaction where both players have input
an interaction that differentiates a killers patters from the rest and punishes players who play the exact say way against every killer even close to the m1 category
it is designed to punish players who don't adapt to play against their opponent, if you stick to beaten path looping it punishes you, if you start playing suboptimal or more unpredictably it rewards you
I think its a balanced mechanic with the ability for interaction and counterplay from both sides and opens up gameplay at tiles that normally would be run in the same boring way as every single other killer, but it is designed to punish people who run it in the same boring way while rewarding those who play in a more unique fashion
In my eyes it opens the possibility to force survivors to play more unique which from a gameplay standpoint makes it fresh and more interesting while still being fun to play as and in some peoples opinions against
I read all your post and it's all correct but I will say on the L wall you can j flick depending on the setup (trees or rocks at the corner. Actually really refreshing to argue with somebody who actually has a proper understanding of the game here.
Now I agree that it's counterable. I'd be an idiot to say it isn't. It is a balanced mechanic by itself. I'm arguing that it doesn't make the killer overall balanced. I argue a good j-flick blight is going to get downs on par with spirit and nurse. Blight is a powerhouse when you are running between tiles and j-flick gives him a similar pressure when you're actually running on good tiles against him. You say without jflick you're running a 115 killer on a loop. While true, what's the issue with that? The game is built around that interaction. Now you say it's boring and that's subjective but I tell you my thousands of hours of survivor have been replayable being chased by generic 115 killers on loops. It's fun in my opinion.
It's kinda like Nurse. If everybody was j-flicking it would be complained about everyday but alas, not many people do it. Hypothetically if it was adopted to the level people play spirit, i'd wager there would be blight posts every fifth thread.
Finally I get that it's fun to j flick and it sucks to have it taken away from you. I felt the same about window techs being patched out. There was the counter play for it that worked 100% of the time rather than almost a 50/50 with j flick Blight. It still was removed.
Not sure what you are trying to say, but it can't be unintended when they specifically put a cap on the turn rate.
counter counter point, j-flick cool, with an est at the end, unintended, wack, exploit, wack, cool, you betcha, coolest, its debatable but im making an exception for it
I read all your post and it's all correct but I will say on the L wall you can j flick depending on the setup (trees or rocks at the corner. Actually really refreshing to argue with somebody who actually has a proper understanding of the game here.
Now I agree that it's counterable. I'd be an idiot to say it isn't. It is a balanced mechanic by itself. I'm arguing that it doesn't make the killer overall balanced. I argue a good j-flick blight is going to get downs on par with spirit and nurse. Blight is a powerhouse when you are running between tiles and j-flick gives him a similar pressure when you're actually running on good tiles against him. You say without jflick you're running a 115 killer on a loop. While true, what's the issue with that? The game is built around that interaction. Now you say it's boring and that's subjective but I tell you my thousands of hours of survivor have been replayable being chased by generic 115 killers on loops. It's fun in my opinion.
It's kinda like Nurse. If everybody was j-flicking it would be complained about everyday but alas, not many people do it. Hypothetically if it was adopted to the level people play spirit, i'd wager there would be blight posts every fifth thread.
Finally I get that it's fun to j flick and it sucks to have it taken away from you. I felt the same about window techs being patched out. There was the counter play for it that worked 100% of the time rather than almost a 50/50 with j flick Blight. It still was removed.
Yea I enjoyed window techs (except where if you channeled a map or key you phase through the killer 100% of the time with no skill or timing involved) just like J-flicks they are fun mechanics that are an interaction between both sides, a killer that predicts a window tech can get easy hits and downs, and the survivor who pulls off a window tech can usually win the chase outright, which is the same with j-flicks there both create unique interactions that normal gameplay lacks.
Balance as a concept is always subjective, but in my opinion I would still be fine with losing j-flick and would love to use only bump logic but the game currently is in a bad state for bump logic alone, most collisions are barely passible at best, and every killer shack since yamaoka and badham have had no collision on any part of it unless you come exactly at a 90° angle and even then some areas still lack collision like the tarps. Im just tired of the collision with blight that frankly j-flicks are the only thing filling the void from me taking a break from dbd until collision gets fixed or just becoming a nurse and spirit main since they offer the type of gameplay im looking for (although are less fun then blight)
Also on the L wall its very subjective on the specific tile, since yes you can flick both on the top of the L around the two corners in a 180 and around the bottom of the L to hit near the window on nearly every tile but usually you can't hit all the way around any part of the L and hit the window, which makes it not as good as T walls where you can swing and hit the window itself fully which is much stronger
Personally I just enjoy the counterplay to both survivors and the bad collision that blight has thanks to j-flick and the variety of fun gameplay it offers
Yea I enjoyed window techs (except where if you channeled a map or key you phase through the killer 100% of the time with no skill or timing involved) just like J-flicks they are fun mechanics that are an interaction between both sides, a killer that predicts a window tech can get easy hits and downs, and the survivor who pulls off a window tech can usually win the chase outright, which is the same with j-flicks there both create unique interactions that normal gameplay lacks.
Balance as a concept is always subjective, but in my opinion I would still be fine with losing j-flick and would love to use only bump logic but the game currently is in a bad state for bump logic alone, most collisions are barely passible at best, and every killer shack since yamaoka and badham have had no collision on any part of it unless you come exactly at a 90° angle and even then some areas still lack collision like the tarps. Im just tired of the collision with blight that frankly j-flicks are the only thing filling the void from me taking a break from dbd until collision gets fixed or just becoming a nurse and spirit main since they offer the type of gameplay im looking for (although are less fun then blight)
Also on the L wall its very subjective on the specific tile, since yes you can flick both on the top of the L around the two corners in a 180 and around the bottom of the L to hit near the window on nearly every tile but usually you can't hit all the way around any part of the L and hit the window, which makes it not as good as T walls where you can swing and hit the window itself fully which is much stronger
Personally I just enjoy the counterplay to both survivors and the bad collision that blight has thanks to j-flick and the variety of fun gameplay it offers
Can you define bump logic to me?
Not trying to be snide here but what I said about the L wall isn't subjective and neither is game balance. Do you mean objective? Anyway I wouldn't be against j flick staying in the game but I'd prefer it gone for consistency. It's still so much more interactive than Spirit/God Nurse. Hell if it got people off spirit I'd be on your side of the fence aha
Not trying to be snide here but what I said about the L wall isn't subjective and neither is game balance. Do you mean objective? Anyway I wouldn't be against j flick staying in the game but I'd prefer it gone for consistency. It's still so much more interactive than Spirit/God Nurse. Hell if it got people off spirit I'd be on your side of the fence aha
Sure
bump logic is effectively how to chase tiles as blight using just base mechanics for guaranteed hits at most tiles, and how to try to force hits at others which is more survivor dependent
Basically its just a general term for of blights power and common strategies on how to bump at certain tiles
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Comments
Im confused. You asking when,will, or how?
It has been confirmed that they are fixing it but they haven’t given an estimated time
They will fix it, however it hasn't been fixed yet.
It's getting fixed, don't know when though.
180 degreed flick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyY3Aa3v8sAs we have said, this is an unintended mechanic that will be fixed - at the present time I don't have a fix date for you though.
I still don't know why they haven't endorsed it yet, this has been the coolest unintended mechanic I have ever seen in dbd
What about nurse fatigue cancellation? PH mini mories on already escaped survivors?
I hope so, every external advantage or unintended exploit should be fixed in some point.
The best reasons I've read here so far are that is wasn't intended, there's serious doubt it is counterable, and the fact that it cannot and will never be able to be done on console.
Now they just need to fix the oni 180 so they stop being carried by exploits.
theyve actually specifically asked fog whisperers not to use it so
Fatigue cancellation was patched not long ago.
Those are in a realm of their own, nurse with no fatigue would be alright but still has cooldowns from her power so its effect is just lose a bit less distance, and ph one is idk
J-flick tho, pretty cool literally only works in 2 situations but its the sickest thing to watch, and its completely overshadowed by bump logic, and if it gets removed and all that's left is bump logic to work towards, it will be a sad day, then a really powerful thousand year reign a few months later
Unintended designs have been implemented into games the past, combos in fighting games because they were both fun and challenging (wow fun and challenging I wonder if thats a way to describe j-flicks)
Yes it is extremely counterable j-flicks only manage to counter "optimal" looping but have an extremely small hitbox and area which they actually cover since blights rush only has 3 hitboxes, one large hitbox right at the start of the attack that you can't use when j-flicking, one small hitbox which is held for a long time that literally can only hit something inside you, and on medium hitbox that can hit a little bit in front of you right at the end, if you abuse the fact that the middle and end of a j-flick has little to no hitbox you just treat it like oni when his flick was reduced to 30° and you know the area which you have to dodge or first play around bump logic then play around j-flicks by looping more widely or dodging out to the side or behind the blight as the small hitboxes make it easy.
They still need to fix console blight sensitivity, this is still a pc game on its original platform if we limit design space because devs still don't have keyboard and mouse support on the horizon, blight can't even manage more than 45° on console and has been that way since the chapter release, they still even need to fix his default but I don't here anyone calling for that to be addressed
Wasnt dowsey not allowed to play in that 2v8 mode since he was a fog whisperer too?
You can counter it better than good bump logic
i dont know but apparently hes no longer a whisperer
Yeah he is no longerer a whisperer but the 2v8 thing was going on a long time ago and he asked BHVR if he could take part and they said no.
They shouldn't endorse exploits
If they want it, they'll make it apart of his basekit and actually balance it
Otherwise, it should be removed.
Many thanks for the confirmation!
you know the difference between mechanic and "exploit" is endorsement right?
They don't endorse exploits, they'll make it into an actual part of blight's kit if they want it to be something they think is okay
They've said it's not and that it's being fixed, so it's an exploit.
that is the best circular argument ive ever seen, especially since what is it arguing against
Discussions about the J-Flick are useless anyway.
The devs already said it will be fixed and i don't think the community has any input on this whatsoever.
That's not my mentality about it, ill give up on it when its gone but until then I will not stop arguing for it since I think its a wonderful mechanic. Giving up even a slim chance of input is worse then having no input at all. As someone who wholly understands the mechanic I am proud to stand by the complicated but right information about it rather than the simple but wrong answers everyone clings to as a point to have it removed or their simple but boring answers since games aren't meant to be boring.
It will be but there's really no reason too because people just want to run mindlessly around small objects to "counter" blight when eventually he will get a 90 flick on you.
Then let's talk J-flick.
Its counter-play is to side-step out of correct pathing on the tile before blight has even committed to the j-flick. This works, however, if the blight doesn't j-flick you have put yourself in a poor position and have given an opportunity to give a hit if Blight doesn't j-flick. Blight gets his power up quickly, especially if the killer is managing the rushes well.
There aren't many Blight players that use it in the first place but I've had a couple games where I've versed a good blight player that makes impeccable use of j-flicks and the gameplay goes like this:
Every fast vault setup is hit pressure for the j-flicking Blight. Take the T L wall for example, running that tile correctly blight can attempt to j flick around the corner to make the hit in like a fifth of the time he should normally have to commit to the tile. Your options are to take the fast vault or sidestep the window. If blight doesn't j flick and you have sidestepped you are going to medium vault or continue the loop and have given distance for free. If blight couldn't do this every 6.5 seconds (fatigue + 2 tokens cooldown base); it wouldn't be that much of an issue.
This interaction is on a killer that already is incredibly versatile and already has hit pressure as soon as a tile is exhausted or the pallet has been used (hell blight even gets to destroy pallets in power).
My argument is I don't think it's healthy to have such a wildly different dynamic against a killer beause someone is making use of unintended mechanics. J flicks takes away a weakness intended for the killer and his design got so much praise before the exploit was discovered. Killers that just dominate on every tile on every map (looking at you spirit and god nurse) is uninteractive.
BHVR's decision to remove it isn't because it's unintended. Wouldn't survivor moonwalking be removed yonks ago cos it's unintended?
It's a balance decision.
Alright counter point time
It is true that the counterplay to blights j-flick is to stop looping a tile optimally but just like the blight you can also read your enviroment around you to see if the blight has any other options, sometimes j-flicks are used to make up for bad tile layouts with no real way to play around it with a blight that has already committed to power, much like the blight can read the environment to determine if j-flick is an appropriate choice given the situation so can the survivor to even stronger effect, since they not only know that this is blights only option they know if they counter it the blight has no choice but to 115 chase or to attempt another j-flick that will likely fail as the survivor is still keen on them
It doesn't actually take all that much to dodge a j-flick as the hitbox split in to 3 parts, large starting hitbox, extremely small deathslinger harpoon side held lunge hitbox, and barely slightly bigger ending hitbox, as long as you know the blight would be mid attack you can basically do anything you want as long as you aren't in the 10° cone point blank from the blight and not get hit mid attack meaning even if its just predicting and losing a bit of distance you don't have to lose all that much as long as you run optimal while he is farther away
Most fast windows you can't even hit a j-flick on it only really applies to small walled windows, such as Z walls [ walls and the LT walls depending on the variety, but usually only the T wall. Even then this is still a 50/50 on both sides like playing the tile normally, where a j-flick doesn't cover both options and bump logic doesn't cover both options, its still in both players hands to play better than the other player and predict actions much like playing the tile normally.
The interaction described on a LT wall is just a killer brute forcing a LT wall they can still mindgame and wind up on top as long as they aren't facing extremely good survivors because decent - good survivors are extremely predictable which is where j-flick shines countering the beaten path loopers who do nothing but hug a tile optimally and play against blight as if he was any other m1 killer, because both bump logic and j-flicks hard counter them but j-flicks especially are designed against them, while bump logic is more universal
My argument for j-flicks is it offers multiple things to gameplay
I think its a balanced mechanic with the ability for interaction and counterplay from both sides and opens up gameplay at tiles that normally would be run in the same boring way as every single other killer, but it is designed to punish people who run it in the same boring way while rewarding those who play in a more unique fashion
In my eyes it opens the possibility to force survivors to play more unique which from a gameplay standpoint makes it fresh and more interesting while still being fun to play as and in some peoples opinions against
Stop.....you're asking players in Dead by Daylight (Survivors no less) to utilize skill.....you're asking for too much already. Stop it.
My mistake
They said they're going to, but decisions by BHVR are often made in a very esoteric fashion, so don't hold your breath.
It’s not an unintended mechanic when there is literally a cap on the turn rate to prevent blight from doing just that. People found a way to bypass this cap to “j flick” which is exploiting.
wow thats such a great point counterpoint the word coolest
I read all your post and it's all correct but I will say on the L wall you can j flick depending on the setup (trees or rocks at the corner. Actually really refreshing to argue with somebody who actually has a proper understanding of the game here.
Now I agree that it's counterable. I'd be an idiot to say it isn't. It is a balanced mechanic by itself. I'm arguing that it doesn't make the killer overall balanced. I argue a good j-flick blight is going to get downs on par with spirit and nurse. Blight is a powerhouse when you are running between tiles and j-flick gives him a similar pressure when you're actually running on good tiles against him. You say without jflick you're running a 115 killer on a loop. While true, what's the issue with that? The game is built around that interaction. Now you say it's boring and that's subjective but I tell you my thousands of hours of survivor have been replayable being chased by generic 115 killers on loops. It's fun in my opinion.
It's kinda like Nurse. If everybody was j-flicking it would be complained about everyday but alas, not many people do it. Hypothetically if it was adopted to the level people play spirit, i'd wager there would be blight posts every fifth thread.
Finally I get that it's fun to j flick and it sucks to have it taken away from you. I felt the same about window techs being patched out. There was the counter play for it that worked 100% of the time rather than almost a 50/50 with j flick Blight. It still was removed.
Not sure what you are trying to say, but it can't be unintended when they specifically put a cap on the turn rate.
counter counter point, j-flick cool, with an est at the end, unintended, wack, exploit, wack, cool, you betcha, coolest, its debatable but im making an exception for it
Yea I enjoyed window techs (except where if you channeled a map or key you phase through the killer 100% of the time with no skill or timing involved) just like J-flicks they are fun mechanics that are an interaction between both sides, a killer that predicts a window tech can get easy hits and downs, and the survivor who pulls off a window tech can usually win the chase outright, which is the same with j-flicks there both create unique interactions that normal gameplay lacks.
Balance as a concept is always subjective, but in my opinion I would still be fine with losing j-flick and would love to use only bump logic but the game currently is in a bad state for bump logic alone, most collisions are barely passible at best, and every killer shack since yamaoka and badham have had no collision on any part of it unless you come exactly at a 90° angle and even then some areas still lack collision like the tarps. Im just tired of the collision with blight that frankly j-flicks are the only thing filling the void from me taking a break from dbd until collision gets fixed or just becoming a nurse and spirit main since they offer the type of gameplay im looking for (although are less fun then blight)
Also on the L wall its very subjective on the specific tile, since yes you can flick both on the top of the L around the two corners in a 180 and around the bottom of the L to hit near the window on nearly every tile but usually you can't hit all the way around any part of the L and hit the window, which makes it not as good as T walls where you can swing and hit the window itself fully which is much stronger
Personally I just enjoy the counterplay to both survivors and the bad collision that blight has thanks to j-flick and the variety of fun gameplay it offers
Can you define bump logic to me?
Not trying to be snide here but what I said about the L wall isn't subjective and neither is game balance. Do you mean objective? Anyway I wouldn't be against j flick staying in the game but I'd prefer it gone for consistency. It's still so much more interactive than Spirit/God Nurse. Hell if it got people off spirit I'd be on your side of the fence aha
Sure
bump logic is effectively how to chase tiles as blight using just base mechanics for guaranteed hits at most tiles, and how to try to force hits at others which is more survivor dependent
Basically its just a general term for of blights power and common strategies on how to bump at certain tiles