I really wish dbe would hurry up with the character. Weve gotten so much hetero representation, why not the LGBTQ community too? Its been almost a year, and oh boy is BHVR taking their time.
Also, there is nothing wrong with ‘feminine’ or ‘obvious’ gay people. The idea that every queer character has to have their sexuality only kept to an obscure reference to avoid pandering is homophobic, even in other gay people. Internalised homophobic exists, the ‘I’m not like other gays’ is not a healthy mindset.
My gay boyfriend has a high-pitched voice (at least higher pitched than the norm) and can't grow a beard. Believe me, I have no problems with stereotypical gay people. However, it is a fact that the stereotypes are the ones that get featured the most. Let's get some non-stereotypical representation going, yeah?
You are saying this in opposition of people asking for LGBT lore to be treated like non-LGBT lore.
Here's what you don't understand.....
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
Again, Nurse, 2016. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.
I won't @ you, don't worry. I doubt I'll even remember your name (I'm terrible with those).
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
My gay boyfriend has a high-pitched voice (at least higher pitched than the norm) and can't grow a beard. Believe me, I have no problems with stereotypical gay people. However, it is a fact that the stereotypes are the ones that get featured the most. Let's get some non-stereotypical representation going, yeah?
Oh, I totally agree. I wasn’t saying we should have stereotypical representation. It’s just it feels like there’s a mindset in this thread that stereotypical gay people are lesser, which isn’t ok.
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
I think you're overthinking it a bit
If they had wrote the backstory for Nurse or David and you replaced the word 'Husband' or 'Ex-Girlfriend' with 'Wife' or 'Ex-Boyfriend' then that's quite literally just a small part of their bigger story
there'd be nothing wrong with it, it's when characters are made PURELY to do nothing other than tick a box where there'll be issues. Probably
Oh, I totally agree. I wasn’t saying we should have stereotypical representation. It’s just it feels like there’s a mindset in this thread that stereotypical gay people are lesser, which isn’t ok.
That was definitely not my intention, and if anyone feels that way, I apologize for not being clear.
Already said I had no idea where the homophobic bit came from.
The fact that the devs said they had only added relationships to heterosexual characters.
Again, no idea where that came from.
Its literally 1 line out of an entire chapter of a book, which should say enough.....it doesn't matter.
And nobody said otherwise.
It's OK to admit you were wrong about there being no mention of a girlfriend.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they said in their statement that they only placed their characters in heterosexual relationships, not that the characters themselves were heterosexual.
You sound dumm. Were ralking about LGBT representation as a whole
So if we got a trans character instead of a gay character, or a lesbian character, instead of a bi character you'd be cool with that? Cause I'm just trying to take note, which box of stereotypes BHVR should rummage through first.
That was definitely not my intention, and if anyone feels that way, I apologize for not being clear.
I definitely don’t feel that way about what you were saying! I really appreciate your input on all of this, it’s nice to have other people on the side of representation
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they said in their statement that they only placed their characters in heterosexual relationships, not that the characters themselves were heterosexual.
Potato, potahto. You can substitute "character" (or "killer/survivor") for "lore". The argument is the same, nothing changes.
Oh, and having a queer character wouldn’t be pandering. If they were trying to pander they’d have released swimsuit cosmetics for David, Jake, Felix, Quentin, etc
Oh, and having a queer character wouldn’t be pandering. If they were trying to pander they’d have released swimsuit cosmetics for David, Jake, Felix, Quentin, etc
Wouldn’t be mad about it though
That's where you're wrong, it'd definitely be pandering. Everything is pandering, as a matter of fact. Silent Hill chapter is pandering to SH fans. Evil Dead chapter is pandering to Evil Dead fans. However, "pandering" only becomes a dirty word when it's for LGBT characters. It's like saying "expat" instead of the more apt term "immigrant" depending on the country of origin.
Potato, potahto. You can substitute "character" (or "killer/survivor") for "lore". The argument is the same, nothing changes.
My point was you seemed to combat his argument about David being straight with that statement. When nothing, not even the devs statement confirms him as straight. As having an ex-girlfriend in no way makes him heterosexual. He was in a heterosexual relationship, which is what the devs admitted to, but that doesn't mean he is heterosexual.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think David is LGBT personally, but I just won't make that claim without 100% proof. And him having an ex-girlfriend just isn't enough proof.
That's where you're wrong, it'd definitely be pandering. Everything is pandering, as a matter of fact. Silent Hill chapter is pandering to SH fans. Evil Dead chapter is pandering to Evil Dead fans. However, "pandering" only becomes a dirty word when it's for LGBT characters. It's like saying "expat" instead of the more apt term "immigrant" depending on the country of origin.
Yeah but do you agree that (outside of fanservice ofc) they only do things like SIlent Hill, RE and so on because they know it's an easy way to sell a chapter and the game itself.
Big franchises with huge fanbases = easy $$$
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money, you could make the argument that the logic applies to original chapters like All-Kill and so on.
I lurk on these forums frequently but rarely ever post anything. I tried to get involved in this community but most of my posts are ignored or received negatively, so I stopped contributing. However, I often see threads on this topic, and the result is almost always the same: a firestorm of everybody calling everybody else intolerant because they hold different beliefs. I feel compelled to join in this time because I really enjoy this game and want it to stay alive as long as possible. So what I'd like to do is try to bring up some logical points that often get overlooked in threads like these.
Have you considered that the reason the devs haven't included this representation yet is because they can't? Look at it this way: if they make a survivor trans, doesn't that promote violence against the trans community? You are hunting down a trans person with the objective of killing them, after all. Conversely, were a killer to be made trans, would that not imply that trans people are mentally deranged psychos? You might disregard these examples as exaggeration, but people will see it that way. It's like a trap set by looney toons activist groups. Once the keyboard warriors latch on to that, the game will be cancelled for sure. I've been around on the internet long enough to know that someone, somewhere will be offended and take the inclusion out of context, even if it is done with the best intentions. And yeah, you could apply that to "People targeting Tapp just don't like black people" if you wanted to, but I think that's a false equivalency. Oh and by the way, let's not forget about them having to release two separate versions of the game, one of which does NOT include representation, because they would lose markets in parts of the world that are not accepting of representation. Believe it or not, some places on Earth are not so accepting of these communities as others (and maybe that's where you should be demanding change).
Additionally, look at how this thread has devolved. Look at any previous thread about inclusion and witness the chaos this topic brings. It happens EVERY SINGLE TIME. "Everyone but me is a bigot", right? Get real. Do you think the devs and mods want to deal with that headache on a daily basis? People cannot remain civil regarding this topic and it seems to me that the devs and mods just wouldn't want to deal with boycotts and cancel culture in addition to everything else they have on their plates. What happens if they include the representation you wanted, but didn't do it in "the right way"? That would cause way worse problems.
Another point is that the devs will never be able to satisfy everybody. New identities and classifications are contrived on a daily basis. Sure, they could have a rainbow flag charm. But why not a trans flag charm? Why not an asexual flag charm? And so on and so forth until the end of time. It may sound insensitive, and I certainly don't mean it to be, but this is coming from someone who played Overwatch at the height of their "lore enhancements". I have seen how the "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" scenario plays out in most every form of media that attempts to appeal to everyone. Somebody once told me "Obama wasn't black enough". That just blew my mind, but I think it's a good example of how the world is today. Nothing will ever be good enough when it comes to representation, so long as there is one person who feels excluded.
This final section is personal. I think seeking representation in media is dumb. Now, I am not willing to reveal identifying information about myself on the internet, but I will tell you that I am very rarely represented in media and when I am it is typically a negative representation. I do not seek characters that REPRESENT me, rather, I seek characters that APPEAL to me. I mostly play as Bill in this game, despite not being a Vietnam vet. I just like Bill because he's Bill. I don't play as Clown because I'm a clown, I just like how he laughs and coughs all the time. I think it's unrealistic to demand that the world change to suit you and your wants. I understand wanting to relate to a character, but I do not understand the need to have relatability in a game with very little narrative and has little influence on the gameplay. The characters are mostly blank slates, why not just make them who you want them to be in your own mind? Why would you force your beliefs on someone who does not share them? Isn't that a little... dare I say it... intolerant?
Please do not misunderstand my statement as a protest against inclusion. It's not like Jake wanting to see Ace naked is going to impact the gameplay (I would hope). People are what they are. I dislike people in general and have difficulty relating to and understanding them. I am more concerned about the longevity and health of the game than representation. It is possible that in trying to appeal to everyone, you appeal to no one. I don't want this game to end up in a Battlefield V situation. Dead By Daylight is a unique game, and one that I quite enjoy. It is in fact the ONLY multiplayer game that I still play consistently. I would hate for it to die off early because of a short-sighted miscalculation brought on by peer pressure or mob mentality.
However this works out, I'm sure it'll be aldwight. But please, stop firebombing each other on a freaking video game forum. Some of us just want to play the game and have a good time.
Hey man! Looked through your post and want to talk about your statements. I'm a gay trans man weighing in.
So no, it would not be a hate crime to make a survivor trans. There's a difference between killing someone because they are trans and killing a trans person; seeing as how the Entity and the Killers don't seem to care about the survivors being male, female, black, white, Asian, etc., I don't think adding a trans survivor would be an issue. Would someone take it that way? Yeah, sure, but they're going to do that anyway so just do it.
Same with a trans-Killer. They're not a killer because they're trans. Boom, done. Representation without turning them into a token character.
LGBTQ+ people not welcome in some parts of the world? Too bad. Games like Apex Legends and TLOU are relatively well known, have a large player base, and it's still growing. Apex just released a Legend who is a woman who is attracted to women. Saying they have to worry about the countries they market in is a flimsy excuse.
Cancel culture doesn't exist, stop using it as an excuse. If you don't want to deal with the backlash, maybe don't do the thing that you did.
You're right in saying that there will never be an end to seeking representation but having someone who is like me in a video game I enjoy would be an extremely large deal for me. I know it's easy to say that representation doesn't matter, but that's easy to say when the majority of video game characters are cishet white men. I don't want a token gay sidekick or a J.K. Rowling reveals or a Pride Month #PRIDE! tweet.
Would I play a character just because they're trans or gay? Nah, probably not. But it'd be nice to know they're there. To at least mouse of the character and their lore and go "oh cool! a trans person who isn't a stereotype!", as I then go back to playing Dwight and David.
As for imposing a belief on someone? IDK man, me saying I'm trans and think I was born in the wrong body has never hurt anyone but boy howdy, do I get scared when I have to tell someone new. Trans panic is still a valid excuse in several states when it comes to assaulting a trans person. It's not intolerance to tell someone that they have to deal with a character being trans or gay or whatever.
We're not asking for Dwight to drop to his knees, stick his ass out, and ask Ghost Face to screw him in the middle of a match. We're just asking for a single line in a bio or an Archive. There are references to characters being in straight relationships, so why not gay ones?
My point was you seemed to combat his argument about David being straight with that statement. When nothing, not even the devs statement confirms him as straight. As having an ex-girlfriend in no way makes him heterosexual. He was in a heterosexual relationship, which is what the devs admitted to, but that doesn't mean he is heterosexual.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think David is LGBT personally, but I just won't make that claim without 100% proof. And him having an ex-girlfriend just isn't enough proof.
Let's treat each other like adults here. Nobody assumes David might be anything but straight. It's disingenuous to claim "Well, but he could still be straight!". We all know that's not what the devs were going for, so let's stop pretending otherwise. He's not a real person with an ongoing life, he's a fictional character whose personality traits exist as strings in a video game's code. He was written to be straight.
Yeah but do you agree that (outside of fanservice ofc) they only do things like SIlent Hill, RE and so on because they know it's an easy way to sell a chapter and the game itself.
Big franchises with huge fanbases = easy $$$
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money, you could make the argument that the logic applies to original chapters like All-Kill and so on.
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money
Just what do you think pandering is? It's literally trying to appeal to a specific demographic.
That's where you're wrong, it'd definitely be pandering. Everything is pandering, as a matter of fact. Silent Hill chapter is pandering to SH fans. Evil Dead chapter is pandering to Evil Dead fans. However, "pandering" only becomes a dirty word when it's for LGBT characters. It's like saying "expat" instead of the more apt term "immigrant" depending on the country of origin.
Fair enough. I should’ve worded what I was saying better. Was mainly just trying to use the argument to set up the swimsuit joke lol
Let's treat each other like adults here. Nobody assumes David might be anything but straight. It's disingenuous to claim "Well, but he could still be straight!". We all know that's not what the devs were going for, so let's stop pretending otherwise. He's not a real person with an ongoing life, he's a fictional character whose personality traits exist as strings in a video game's code. He was written to be straight.
Sometimes I think people don't understand what it means for a character to be obviously written a certain way.
David is very obviously written to be a stereotypical red-blooded man, who drinks beer and sleeps with models. It isn't hard to see.
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money
Just what do you think pandering is? It's literally trying to appeal to a specific demographic.
Because I don't think it's fair to call it all just blanket pandering? You said it yourself the word Pandering has negative connotations for one reason or another.
We ask for homo relationship representation or trans character representation tbf, just like there's hetero relationship representation.
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
If they had wrote the backstory for Nurse or David and you replaced the word 'Husband' or 'Ex-Girlfriend' with 'Wife' or 'Ex-Boyfriend' then that's quite literally just a small part of their bigger story
there'd be nothing wrong with it, it's when characters are made PURELY to do nothing other than tick a box where there'll be issues. Probably
Maybe I am overthinking it but....I don't have faith bruh. Theres too many fails and bugs and complete #########'s in the lore for me to put faith that they do it right. Don't even get me started on that Kpop atrocity. Normal ass human killer....smh...
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
Why can’t we have representation in all of these ways? Why does it have to be one or the other?
Maybe I am overthinking it but....I don't have faith bruh. Theres too many fails and bugs and complete #########'s in the lore for me to put faith that they do it right. Don't even get me started on that Kpop atrocity. Normal ass human killer....smh...
To be fair with the kpop stuff, Yun Jin’s lore was pretty fantastic.
Because I don't think it's fair to call it all just blanket pandering? You said it yourself the word Pandering has negative connotations for one reason or another.
Well, it is all pandering, by definition. The fact that people attribute negative qualities to "pandering", as opposed to "appealing" (the same way they use "expat" instead of "immigrant" depending on the country of origin) doesn't change the fact that people are being pandered to with everything.
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
Why does there need to be a purpose? Is it relevant that Dwight was on a camping trip? Is Trapper's dad's mine relevant? Why can't things just be?
Maybe I am overthinking it but....I don't have faith bruh. Theres too many fails and bugs and complete #########'s in the lore for me to put faith that they do it right. Don't even get me started on that Kpop atrocity. Normal ass human killer....smh...
Yeah I don't like All-Kill either, you're not alone on that
Worst chapter they've ever made in my personal opinion but I can respect people's like of it
I do think you might be overthinking the whole thing though, I'm 100% sure BHVR would just make a normal chapter (in terms of aesthetic, tone, presentation etc) and in the backstory it would talk about them having a partner of the same orientation as them or something and that'll be it.
I highly highly doubt they'll make an entire chapter themed around it with one-note characters and so on.
What calling me a homophobe, because I'm not. I just don't get why a killer and survivors sexuality have any importants due to:
This is a horror game.
This game isn't about sexuality or fan service, it's about surviving a deity's trials.
Finally, there is really no reason this should be important.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some #########, while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of ######### it?
Come on dude, I'm all for pride and #########, I mean love who you want to love. But a survivor and killers sexuality is the last thing the devs and such need to worry about.
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
Except there's no reason for Nurse to have been married. They could have easily have said she went to work to support her ailing mother or her siblings. I agree, relationships aren't needed for the world in DBD but if you're going to have a character be straight, why not have one be gay as well.
Why does there need to be a purpose? Is it relevant that Dwight was on a camping trip? Is Trapper's dad's mine relevant? Why can't things just be?
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it. Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
"It's nice to have other people on the side of representation."
This.
I know I haven't really interacted with either of you directly but I'd just like to thank you and @Orion for being awesome. It's incredibly heartwarming to see both your input on this.
You have both explained your points so eloquently and expressed in words many of my own feelings that I wasn't sure how to word.
Again, thank you both for being a source of positivity on these forums because it can definitely be overwhelming on here sometimes! <3
What calling me a homophobe, because I'm not. I just don't get why a killer and survivors sexuality have any importants due to:
This is a horror game.
This game isn't about sexuality or fan service, it's about surviving a deity's trials.
Finally, there is really no reason this should be important.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some #########, while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of ######### it?
Come on dude, I'm all for pride and #########, I mean love who you want to love. But a survivor and killers sexuality is the last thing the devs and such need to worry about.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some [BAD WORD], while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of [BAD WORD] it?
Hi, have you heard of Mass Effect? You don't play an alien, but you do play a human, just like you play humans in this game (except Demogorgon).
There is nothing in the lore that says anything about him being gay. If you’re implying he is because of how he dresses/acts, you might want to rethink what you’re saying.
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it. Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it.
The devs aren't Chekhov, there's always going to be a ton of irrelevant details.
Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
Yes, and that was thrown in for the hell of it. Could've just as easily been something else, or even nothing at all.
"It's nice to have other people on the side of representation."
This.
I know I haven't really interacted with either of you directly but I'd just like to thank you and @Orion for being awesome. It's incredibly heartwarming to see both your input on this.
You have both explained your points so eloquently and expressed in words many of my own feelings that I wasn't sure how to word.
Again, thank you both for being a source of positivity on these forums because it can definitely be overwhelming on here sometimes! <3
Thank you! Feel free to give your input anytime, even if it’s messy, there’s still value in it.
I have suffered a lot as a gay person, the abuse I received from it led to me having severe anxiety. Even after it stopped, it still impacts me. That’s why I’m super passionate about this, because the first time I saw real queer representation is when I realised I was gay. It ######### matters.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some [BAD WORD], while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of [BAD WORD] it?
Hi, have you heard of Mass Effect? You don't play an alien, but you do play a human, just like you play humans in this game (except Demogorgon).
Ok, whats it matter. All I'm asking about is why care about someones sexuality, when it's the last thing to focus on.
Except there's no reason for Nurse to have been married. They could have easily have said she went to work to support her ailing mother or her siblings. I agree, relationships aren't needed for the world in DBD but if you're going to have a character be straight, why not have one be gay as well.
Actually, there is, Nurse wanted to start a family with the man she loved, she wanted to start a life of joy and freedom, Andrew was the key to that, but when he died, he became the key piece into nurse's descent into madness, pain, and torment.
Edit: also the fact that andrew was the supplier of the two
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
It’s not wrong to think that he could be, but it’s also not really a good thing to assume.
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
Stereotyping and generalising isn't really a good thing to do honestly. It promotes ignorance and ignores the individuality of people
People do it in this communtiy all the time outside of discussions like this. You know, all swf players are x, all nurse mains are y and so on.
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that?
When there's no mention of that and you're just going off of stereotypes? Yes, absolutely. I don't remember the name, but a user here commented that he'd been bullied for being "feminine", so he was stereotyped as "gay".
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
A bit, yeah!
While yes, there's a majority of gay men who act stereotypically it's still baseless to assume someone is gay based on their looks and personality alone. The Trickster could just be a very flamboyant straight man.
There's also the matter of KPOP culture and how idols are treated, especially the men. The way the men and women act in these groups is usually to cater to a specific demographic, i.e. the opposite gender.
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it. Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
Someone’s experience with their sexuality can also have a direct impact on who they are.
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Comments
My gay boyfriend has a high-pitched voice (at least higher pitched than the norm) and can't grow a beard. Believe me, I have no problems with stereotypical gay people. However, it is a fact that the stereotypes are the ones that get featured the most. Let's get some non-stereotypical representation going, yeah?
Here's what you don't understand.....
If you come out and officially say a character is Bi.....then guess what....he's not gay.
If you come out and officially say a character is Gay....then guess what....he's not Bi.
If you comeout and say a character is a Lesbian.... then guess what.....she's not Gay.
^ I know you tend to not see the scope of the full picture here. But if you don't say a character is any of those things above....
Then the character can be anything and everything for everyone....WHICH IS FAR MORE INCLUSIVE than saying
Jake...is only into girls...not only that he was born a guy....
Or Feng Min....yeah shes only into girls and would never be bi...also....She was born a girl.
This is what you're not getting, and its the same thing Riot didn't get when they released Lucian....people are not monoliths. When you tie down a character with traits that are monolithic you end up with monolithic problems. The artistic genius of leaving a blank canvas dissolves monoliths, thats where this wacky ass French team had it right. But hey if you wanna go back to the world we all live in currently instead of the artistic concept the game first came out with you're more than welcome to open that pandoras box. But like I said, you put too much trust in BHVR, don't @ me when this ######### goes sideways....
Again, Nurse, 2016. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.
I won't @ you, don't worry. I doubt I'll even remember your name (I'm terrible with those).
Were ralking about LGBT representation as a whole
Oh, I totally agree. I wasn’t saying we should have stereotypical representation. It’s just it feels like there’s a mindset in this thread that stereotypical gay people are lesser, which isn’t ok.
I think you're overthinking it a bit
If they had wrote the backstory for Nurse or David and you replaced the word 'Husband' or 'Ex-Girlfriend' with 'Wife' or 'Ex-Boyfriend' then that's quite literally just a small part of their bigger story
there'd be nothing wrong with it, it's when characters are made PURELY to do nothing other than tick a box where there'll be issues. Probably
GO BESTFRIEND 💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️!!!
That was definitely not my intention, and if anyone feels that way, I apologize for not being clear.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure they said in their statement that they only placed their characters in heterosexual relationships, not that the characters themselves were heterosexual.
So if we got a trans character instead of a gay character, or a lesbian character, instead of a bi character you'd be cool with that? Cause I'm just trying to take note, which box of stereotypes BHVR should rummage through first.
I definitely don’t feel that way about what you were saying! I really appreciate your input on all of this, it’s nice to have other people on the side of representation
Omg so fire
Potato, potahto. You can substitute "character" (or "killer/survivor") for "lore". The argument is the same, nothing changes.
Im gona leave the closet door open for the homophobes.
Oh, and having a queer character wouldn’t be pandering. If they were trying to pander they’d have released swimsuit cosmetics for David, Jake, Felix, Quentin, etc
Wouldn’t be mad about it though
That's where you're wrong, it'd definitely be pandering. Everything is pandering, as a matter of fact. Silent Hill chapter is pandering to SH fans. Evil Dead chapter is pandering to Evil Dead fans. However, "pandering" only becomes a dirty word when it's for LGBT characters. It's like saying "expat" instead of the more apt term "immigrant" depending on the country of origin.
Just play. All are Human. Bye
My point was you seemed to combat his argument about David being straight with that statement. When nothing, not even the devs statement confirms him as straight. As having an ex-girlfriend in no way makes him heterosexual. He was in a heterosexual relationship, which is what the devs admitted to, but that doesn't mean he is heterosexual.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think David is LGBT personally, but I just won't make that claim without 100% proof. And him having an ex-girlfriend just isn't enough proof.
Exactly. Don't worry about the devs adding LGBT characters, we're all human.
Yeah but do you agree that (outside of fanservice ofc) they only do things like SIlent Hill, RE and so on because they know it's an easy way to sell a chapter and the game itself.
Big franchises with huge fanbases = easy $$$
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money, you could make the argument that the logic applies to original chapters like All-Kill and so on.
Demo says hello
Hey man! Looked through your post and want to talk about your statements. I'm a gay trans man weighing in.
So no, it would not be a hate crime to make a survivor trans. There's a difference between killing someone because they are trans and killing a trans person; seeing as how the Entity and the Killers don't seem to care about the survivors being male, female, black, white, Asian, etc., I don't think adding a trans survivor would be an issue. Would someone take it that way? Yeah, sure, but they're going to do that anyway so just do it.
Same with a trans-Killer. They're not a killer because they're trans. Boom, done. Representation without turning them into a token character.
LGBTQ+ people not welcome in some parts of the world? Too bad. Games like Apex Legends and TLOU are relatively well known, have a large player base, and it's still growing. Apex just released a Legend who is a woman who is attracted to women. Saying they have to worry about the countries they market in is a flimsy excuse.
Cancel culture doesn't exist, stop using it as an excuse. If you don't want to deal with the backlash, maybe don't do the thing that you did.
You're right in saying that there will never be an end to seeking representation but having someone who is like me in a video game I enjoy would be an extremely large deal for me. I know it's easy to say that representation doesn't matter, but that's easy to say when the majority of video game characters are cishet white men. I don't want a token gay sidekick or a J.K. Rowling reveals or a Pride Month #PRIDE! tweet.
Would I play a character just because they're trans or gay? Nah, probably not. But it'd be nice to know they're there. To at least mouse of the character and their lore and go "oh cool! a trans person who isn't a stereotype!", as I then go back to playing Dwight and David.
As for imposing a belief on someone? IDK man, me saying I'm trans and think I was born in the wrong body has never hurt anyone but boy howdy, do I get scared when I have to tell someone new. Trans panic is still a valid excuse in several states when it comes to assaulting a trans person. It's not intolerance to tell someone that they have to deal with a character being trans or gay or whatever.
We're not asking for Dwight to drop to his knees, stick his ass out, and ask Ghost Face to screw him in the middle of a match. We're just asking for a single line in a bio or an Archive. There are references to characters being in straight relationships, so why not gay ones?
Let's treat each other like adults here. Nobody assumes David might be anything but straight. It's disingenuous to claim "Well, but he could still be straight!". We all know that's not what the devs were going for, so let's stop pretending otherwise. He's not a real person with an ongoing life, he's a fictional character whose personality traits exist as strings in a video game's code. He was written to be straight.
It's not about pandering it's about appealing to demographics for money
Just what do you think pandering is? It's literally trying to appeal to a specific demographic.
Fair enough. I should’ve worded what I was saying better. Was mainly just trying to use the argument to set up the swimsuit joke lol
Sometimes I think people don't understand what it means for a character to be obviously written a certain way.
David is very obviously written to be a stereotypical red-blooded man, who drinks beer and sleeps with models. It isn't hard to see.
Because I don't think it's fair to call it all just blanket pandering? You said it yourself the word Pandering has negative connotations for one reason or another.
Unless there is a purpose behind a homo relationship, such as Sally and her husband Andrew, or Felix and his girlfriend (although this one is debatable), love interest is not really needed in this game. We can promote diversity and representation within the game with the use of charms, character cosmetics, events, etc.
Maybe I am overthinking it but....I don't have faith bruh. Theres too many fails and bugs and complete #########'s in the lore for me to put faith that they do it right. Don't even get me started on that Kpop atrocity. Normal ass human killer....smh...
Why can’t we have representation in all of these ways? Why does it have to be one or the other?
To be fair with the kpop stuff, Yun Jin’s lore was pretty fantastic.
Well, it is all pandering, by definition. The fact that people attribute negative qualities to "pandering", as opposed to "appealing" (the same way they use "expat" instead of "immigrant" depending on the country of origin) doesn't change the fact that people are being pandered to with everything.
Why does there need to be a purpose? Is it relevant that Dwight was on a camping trip? Is Trapper's dad's mine relevant? Why can't things just be?
I never said it has to be limited to one thing.
Yeah I don't like All-Kill either, you're not alone on that
Worst chapter they've ever made in my personal opinion but I can respect people's like of it
I do think you might be overthinking the whole thing though, I'm 100% sure BHVR would just make a normal chapter (in terms of aesthetic, tone, presentation etc) and in the backstory it would talk about them having a partner of the same orientation as them or something and that'll be it.
I highly highly doubt they'll make an entire chapter themed around it with one-note characters and so on.
So because he wears human skin masks he’s trans lmao are you sure you aren’t transphobic bro
What calling me a homophobe, because I'm not. I just don't get why a killer and survivors sexuality have any importants due to:
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some #########, while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of ######### it?
Come on dude, I'm all for pride and #########, I mean love who you want to love. But a survivor and killers sexuality is the last thing the devs and such need to worry about.
Except there's no reason for Nurse to have been married. They could have easily have said she went to work to support her ailing mother or her siblings. I agree, relationships aren't needed for the world in DBD but if you're going to have a character be straight, why not have one be gay as well.
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it. Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
Thank you, it's nice to be appreciated.
I mean imagine there was a game about saving the world from aliens or some [BAD WORD], while you're playing an alien from another race. Would its sexuality matter? Do you want to know its sexuality because you want to make fan art of [BAD WORD] it?
Hi, have you heard of Mass Effect? You don't play an alien, but you do play a human, just like you play humans in this game (except Demogorgon).
I mean he could be, you don't know. I'm also sorry that when I think of a gay person, I usually default to the very flamboyant types, since the gay people I've met are very flamboyant. So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying.
I'd rather there be a reason for things to be the way they are so the community can further relate or understand to a character, scenario, etc., not something that's just thrown in for the hell of it.
The devs aren't Chekhov, there's always going to be a ton of irrelevant details.
Also, wasn't Trapper's dad's mine where he killed his employees, and how Evan came to be who we know him in the game?
Yes, and that was thrown in for the hell of it. Could've just as easily been something else, or even nothing at all.
Thank you! Feel free to give your input anytime, even if it’s messy, there’s still value in it.
I have suffered a lot as a gay person, the abuse I received from it led to me having severe anxiety. Even after it stopped, it still impacts me. That’s why I’m super passionate about this, because the first time I saw real queer representation is when I realised I was gay. It ######### matters.
Ok, whats it matter. All I'm asking about is why care about someones sexuality, when it's the last thing to focus on.
Actually, there is, Nurse wanted to start a family with the man she loved, she wanted to start a life of joy and freedom, Andrew was the key to that, but when he died, he became the key piece into nurse's descent into madness, pain, and torment.
Edit: also the fact that andrew was the supplier of the two
It’s not wrong to think that he could be, but it’s also not really a good thing to assume.
Stereotyping and generalising isn't really a good thing to do honestly. It promotes ignorance and ignores the individuality of people
People do it in this communtiy all the time outside of discussions like this. You know, all swf players are x, all nurse mains are y and so on.
So is it really my fault to have a slight thought that maybe Trickster is either Bi or Gay? Is that wrong of me to think that?
When there's no mention of that and you're just going off of stereotypes? Yes, absolutely. I don't remember the name, but a user here commented that he'd been bullied for being "feminine", so he was stereotyped as "gay".
Stereotyping is demonstrably harmful.
A bit, yeah!
While yes, there's a majority of gay men who act stereotypically it's still baseless to assume someone is gay based on their looks and personality alone. The Trickster could just be a very flamboyant straight man.
There's also the matter of KPOP culture and how idols are treated, especially the men. The way the men and women act in these groups is usually to cater to a specific demographic, i.e. the opposite gender.
Someone’s experience with their sexuality can also have a direct impact on who they are.