What're your thoughts on Sloppy Butcher
Getting into it
Before anyone says it, yes I know there are much worse perks and perk combinations out there then just Sloppy Butcher. But I wanted to make a post today asking the community of the forums what they genuinely think about the perk itself.
I personally believe the perk is annoying and originally this post reflected that statement. But I thought I would transform it into a question rather than stating the perk is something like "unfair" or "OP" outright.
My reasoning for why I believe it's annoying, but is it also unfair?
For one, it isn't like an average slow-down perk where it actively goes against generator progress. Instead it actively puts a negative toll on healing progress instead.
Now you might ask "Well survivors have Botany Knowledge, Desperate Measures, Med-Kits, etc. Why would it be unfair to slow down healing progress as THE KILLER? Wouldn't it be more unfair that survivors have the ability to increase this progress?" and to that I say is a good point.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to claim a perk is unfair if survivors have MORE perks and items that can negate this. But allow me to give you some insight into how the mangled status effect works as a whole.
The Mangled status effect gives a 20% healing penalty to any survivor that's affected by it. This doesn't mean that their healing speed on others is penalized by this, but rather the speed in which others can heal them is penalized.
Of course Botany Knowledge can negate this since it gives a 33% healing bonus, which is 13% higher than the mangled status effects 20%. But not every survivor is going to run Botany knowledge with a med-kit are they?
Now we can argue semantics until the sun dies out since you can argue pop goes the weasel is negated by any tool-box. But my point (at least for me) is that I believe its more annoying than it's unfair. The perk itself is fairly balanced, even if it's annoying by itself, but aided by others perks and what Killer is using it can also pose the question of if it becomes unfair or not.
It's like how people hate Ruin and Undying. Undying by itself is fairly decent and so is Ruin. But together? Especially on a Killer with map mobility like Blight or Spirit? Now that adds a bit of an issue.
additional comment after discussing below
Originally I said the perk is unfair, but perhaps I was rather saying it's annoying. So instead of just changing the section above outright, I posed it as a question instead that would add a better discussion below.
Do you believe it's unfair to face Sloppy? Or is it just an annoying perk like Dead Hard? The perk itself can be considered unfair when you're talking specifics, like what Killer has it and what their build is, but when we're talking specifics THEN it becomes muddy as a result.
A perk needs to be considered unfair if it's just by itself, saying it's unfair when adding specific scenarios does not equate to this claim.
Sloppy butchers combination potential with other perks
So we've established that the perk itself isn't really the primary issue, its the combination potential itself that I believe is the issue. Sloppy Butcher by itself can be argued as more annoying than OP, but with other perks like Pop, Nurse's Calling, Ruin, and the addition of a Killer with mobility or damage potential? Now that's what I call a boring match.
Even if it's not Blight or Spirit, it's still not fun to see the perk on any Killer that usually runs meta builds. Why would I want to be chased by The Legion who already adds healing penalties when Frenzy is put into the mix?
It really just boils down to what each person perceives as unfair. Which really is just subjective at this point. That's primarily why I decided to present this as a question, rather then stating it as a fact.
What do you think?
Is Sloppy Butcher unfair by itself? Is it unfair with other perks? Or is it not unfair at all? I want to treat this like the Dead Hard discussion I made before. The perk itself LIKE Sloppy is annoying, but the primary question is asking if it's just that.
Do you believe it's OP? Or is its power just derived from other perks? You can even argue my reasoning above as to why I believe it's unfair, that's fine to.
TL;dr
I believe Sloppy Butcher is more annoying then unfair, but I also believe the perk can be unfair when you bring up what Killer is using it and what their build is.
Is it unfair by itself though? Not really, It's fairly balanced actually. But is it annoying to face? I personally can say yes. But what do you think? Is it unfair? Annoying? Both? Or do you even think it's OP?
Comments
I would argue that benefits Oni a lot, considering more orbs drop the longer the heal takes.
Sorry to hear that, hopefully it improves.
That makes no sense to me. That doesn't happen to me when facing Sloppy and I've been facing a lot of them tonight. Are you sure you're not just speaking in-general for when survivors get hit? Because from personal experience I don't face this issue.
I think it's stupid and a waste of a perk slot.
It won't stop an experienced survivor from evading you, and healing isn't survivor priority #1, so if you think it'll slow the game down you're sorely mistaken.
It's also a perk that activates on basic attacks, so only good on M1 killers who don't heavily rely on their power to deal damage (So no Demogorgon Lunge, Deathslinger reel-than-hit, Feral Frenzy Hit)
Hemorrhaging isn't the best, as despite the fact there's more blood, on some maps it's impossible to track, and the noises survivors make are usually muffled or staunched by their perks.
If you think it'll help in the long run, nope, because some of the meta is derived of powerful healing perks that ignore status effects, like Adrenaline, or Inner Strength
I'd recommend literally anything else, it'll do a better job at winning you games than Sloppy, and you won't notice a difference other than less blood spurts coming from the survivor when you hit them
Note: the only killer i'd consider it remotely good on is Spirit, because you can see blood while phasing, however it's still outclassed by other tracking perks (Stridor), following scratch marks, and watching the grass shift
Thats what i said...
Actually the reel-than-hit on Deathslinger works with Sloppy because that's still a basic attack, regardless if it's given from a harpoon shot. You can see this is the case since NOED works with it, so Sloppy naturally would too.
But yeah, if we're talking a SWFs or a good team then of course Sloppy is basically worthless in that scenario. But you have to think about the average matches you get, which is usually average players to bad players (especially at red ranks somehow.) So realistically, Sloppy is the meta even if it doesn't work well against a good/very good team.
But is it unfair, alone no. With other combinations it's subjective. But usually if it's used on a killer with map mobility, it can then be considered unfair. Like spirit, yes Stridor, Whispers, anything else is usually a better choice. But if you're a good spirit, Sloppy will destroy a team. Imagine never healing against a Killer that relies entirely on sound, that SOUNDS (pun intended) awful.
Usually on anyone else it's fine. But Killers like Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Oni, anyone with mobility or powers that go well with Sloppy is usually what causes the annoyance or hatred.
Yes but I'm saying you could argue it's one of his best perks is what I mean. Since it literally keeps survivors injured if they don't heal and drops more orbs. It's probably one of the best Killer and Perk relationships in the game.
"Even if it's not Blight or Spirit, it's still not fun to see the perk on any Killer that usually runs meta builds. Why would I want to be chased by The Legion who already adds healing penalties when Frenzy is put into the mix?"
I hear Legion's Frenzy doesn't apply Sloppy Butcher, and I don't mean for the Deep Wound either. Flat out disabled with Frenzy. Is this true? I tried to test it myself and the blood did seem normal compared with the normal hit I left on another of them.
Im fine with 90. Long enough to make healing uncomfortable but not long enough to be oppressive
I think it's a decent perk. Probably one of the only good non-dlc ones that can appear on the bloodweb. In all fairness survivors have quite a lot of strong perks that aren't locked behind a paywall so it's fair tbh.
I think the perk is great on killers who can only m1 so myers, ghostface, wraith etc.
It's fine. No changes needed.
Only time it shows as ugly isnt even its own fault. No power oni. Which can make a selfcare heal take 80 seconds. (Hint hint:don't heal thats the builds counter) it basically makes him a plague with a oneshot if necessary lol.
Sloppy is fine, i don't think it's even top perk for killer. Mangled effect is 15% btw not 20. It used to be 20 before they nerfed healing.
Base selfcare speed is 32 seconds + 15% so sloppy will add up another 4,8 seconds. Not earth shattering. With team heals it will add only 2,4 seconds. I think old school ruin, pop combo and then Freddy's slowdown addons were much more oppressive.
Yes. Plenty of people have been reporting this. The frame drops are kind of similar to when you'd get bloodlust 1 as a killer.
I mean if you get hit by frenzy (which happens like 90% of the time with legion anyways) it doesn't really matter if it applies sloppy or not into the mix, the initial down afterwards is why it becomes annoying. But you most likely already know that, I'm just clarifying for no reason.
The point is that I see what you mean, why would anyone want to face strong or anti-healing Killers with a perk that adds even more anti-healing into the mix? Annoying, yes. OP? No, but you can argue it's unfair with the right circumstances.
Wiki says 20% so either that's wrong or your information is (not trying to sound rude).
Either way, I get what you mean though. When comparing it to perks that add more bonuses then debuffs, it's only a minor convenience at the end of the day. Even if it was 20% or 15%, it's still not a lot.
I don't have a problem with it tbh Only the frame drops are annoying if my frames didnt drop the perk would be cool
That sounds horrible tbh. I hope when the new generation of consoles takes off, so too will the optimization. But only time will tell and i'm not an expert on the matter anyways.
Then I consider myself lucky to not encounter that issue.
Nope
https://youtu.be/W1TlMcbNT4sI don't get the frame drops a lot tho I only get it if the killer is trickster or freddy for some reason
Ah so that's what they meant, the FPS drop attributes to that issue.
Also I'm surprised you randomly replied with that after awhile. I forget if we were having this exact conversation but it went silent until now.
Odd how that's selective, it's almost like the games telling you something.
Idk It's also weird because it only applies to the strongest killer in the game & the weakest killer in the game lol
Sloppy is pretty much for new players and people who play Wraith.
For new players, its like the only bit of slowdown that they're gonna get for a long time. Plus, Hemorrhage is decent for tracking injured survivors, and as a newbie you're gonna lose quite a few chases.
For Wraith, due to his hit-and-run playstyle, benefits immensely from slowed healing and slightly enhanced tracking, to the point where some of the most popular Wraith builds have Sloppy and Bloodhound together, sometimes even with Stridor for if you don't have eyes or just want to waste a perk slot for two effects that are so similar in function that you only need one.
I can't really argue with that, but, lets be honest, Wraith is the only one who hits and R U N S.
The perk is fine nothing wrong with it at all.
I play both roles 50/50 it's useful in a synergy build but who really cares.
The perk has been this way for years... Why cry about it now when it's not a major problem.
I'm pretty sure 95% of the community doesn't have a huge problem with the perk.
Instead of searching for reasons to cry about a perk and asking for nerfs we should be asking for crap perks to get buffed.
Legion doesn't count. Not for any actual reason, they just don't.
*sweating profusely* Whoa whoa whoa, lets not get all m-mathematical in here!
I was wrong. I just checked it and they reduced it from 25% to 20%. But my point still stands that like old school ruin used to slow down survivor repair for several minutes in some cases. If you stacked other slowdown perks like pops, Freddys chains etc you could look very long game.
In my opinion, it's a bit overrated. Sure it slows down the game a bit by extending healing times but it's not that much actually.
20 % of 16 seconds isn't even 4 seconds, it extends healing time by 3.2 seconds and 6.4 seconds when healing with Self Care, which you'll have to be an idiot to heal with SC trough Sloppy Butcher every time you get hit.
Good Survivors won't heal for no reason regardless of Sloppy being in play or not. On my part, I started using Iron Will and I almost never heal anymore, practically it's almost like No Mither at that point. I just don't see a reason to heal if you are a good looper and semi decent at the game. Sloppy only works because of the bad Survivors who heal no matter what. Sloppy is a wasted Perk slot against semi decent Survivors and that's why I think it's overrated.
If Bloodhound and SB were merged into one Perk, it would actually be a decent tracking Perk. I like Bloodhound but on it's own it's a bit weak. If SB and BH were merged, it would probably be my favourite tracking Perk on top of the little slowdown you get from it.
But Sloppy Butcher is a bit underwhelming in my opinion and every player with game sense would say the same. Only bad Survivors would call SB op or unfair.
I think Sloppy Butcher invalidates a lot of add-ons that inflict Mangled. I would rather those add-ons be made better and then Sloppy Butcher be re-worked.
I like it cause it helps with low tier killers and also Blendette who get hit and then disappear into the shadows, making it easier to find them.
I think this is good concise for better survivors. The better you get at looping killers, the less you take hits, the less you get affected by the perk. worse case scenario, you are running iron will and want to stay injured to do gens. I kinda wish there was a perk to extend sloppy butcher mangled effect per person injured so that we could use thanotophobia to get some gen defense from injury survivors. Bloodhound is not particularly useful for killer as default tracking is good enough.
I think it's a very mediocre perk. I run it sometimes and I face it sometimes and it's fun on certain builds and killers. Others have pointed out frame drops and while that is definitely annoying, that's more about the bad optimization than Sloppy Butcher.
Yeah, so long as Plague can No Mither survivors as well force huge noises and residue detection with no counter other than giving her a nuke ... for just tapping the survivor cuz running/genning progresses it ... Legion with sloppy on everything would be tame.
I Don't think of it as a bad perk, the extra 20% healing debuff is only a couple extra seconds so unless you decide to heal under the killer it's not a big deal
Unless you run self care which sloppy counters hard
It's not passive though. It literally requires you to hit a survivor. That's like the least passive thing i can think of outside of hooking them. Hell even ruin doesn't require you to do anything, just exist near the generator and survivors generally stop working on it.
I have no problem with Sloppy. It pairs well with other perks which get fun.
As a survivor- I like the pressure that it adds when a basic hit applies mangled + hemorrhage. It makes me fear being damaged to not have that burden added.
As a Killer, I like using Sloppy to make builds to prolong injuries and make them more punishing - ESPECIALLY on Pyramid Head.
Overall I think that is is a good perk as is and I had no idea that anybody had an issue with it.