Thoughts on camping and tunneling? (tl;dr at end of post bc it's a lot to read)
Survivor main here. Some people may agree with me and others may not and I understand that. We all have different opinions. But I got into an argument with someone else on social media and I'm here for confirmation.
Does anyone else hate going against camping, but find a legitimate, used strategy? This person doesn't seem to understand the point I am trying to make. Yes, I hate getting camped and tunneled. Yes, I find it a cheap strat. But do I find it as nothing more than pure bm and something that shouldn't be used? ...Not necessarily. Part of me likes the challenge I suppose.
The reason I don't is that even though I don't main killer, I know that usually the killer normally has a good reason for it. I've noticed very few players have camping and tunneling as their default playstyle to win. I've also found out the hard way that not many killers like head on too much.
Maybe you unhooked someone with bt. Maybe you used head on. Maybe you used DS, or got a flashlight save, or a pallet stun that made them drop someone. I had one particular game against a hag where she downed my buddy and I got the pallet stun, and she dropped them.
She tunneled and camped me for the rest of the game. And I died. Did I enjoy it? Of course not. But she had a reason she wanted to do that, even if it wasn't a very good reason. I could not escape from it, because I got the pallet stun at 5 gens left. Had I done it later, I could have made it out, but sadly that did not happen.
Anyway, in this argument, I am comparing camping and tunneling, which this person considers toxic and something that shouldn't be used, to perks like DS and head on, which can be used but are normally used in a toxic way, and shouldn't be used in such a way. I know there is only one reason for camping and tunneling, and that is that the killer wants to secure the kill; but I compare it with DS and head on because I feel like those are the only things for survivors that could be useful and bm and the same time, depending on how they're used. Teabagging and flashlight-clicking are not useful in any way other than to get the killer's attention. They will not help you escape (or win in this case).
During the argument, I clarified for this person: if you get unhooked and the killer only wants you, so you hop in a locker before you get downed so you can use your DS (because if you get downed and the killer is smart, they will leave you down and wait the timer) and hopefully get away, that is fine, and it's an example as to how the perk was meant to be used.
On the other hand, if you get unhooked and you practically force the killer to down you and/or pick you up again by teabagging, running at them, spamming fast vaults, waving at them, etc. and pretty much harassing them all so you can use DS or head on, THEN it's toxic. You see what I'm saying, right?
I get that camping and tunneling are "toxic" and rude, but they're still legitimate strategies that any killer who has perfected them can get a 4k. THAT is the point I am trying to make. Not that they SHOULD be used, or that they are strats that are fun to play against; simply that they CAN be used, and that they more than likely WILL. And that all you can do as the survivor is play to counter them the best you can. You cannot stop the killer from tunneling or camping you if they are determined to do so. The only way to do that is to DC, and DC'ing is the game-wide version of pussying out.
Because I explained this, this person is now upset because I'm "exactly what's wrong with DBD by condoning terrible behavior". I recognize that I condone it, and I don't feel bad about it because that IS DBD. That's nearly the whole playerbase. My logic is this: if you can't take the toxic, even though you KNOW that most of the playerbase is the same way, why are you still playing? If you can't get around it, it's your problem because not many other people are really going to care about how you feel while playing. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles, my friend.
Sorry for the rant, but I'm appalled this person really thinks that whining and throwing a tantrum over it is going to change anybody's mind. This is Dead by Daylight, not Dead by Love and Friendship. Grow up.
TL;DR: Person mad bc strats are "toxic". People will play however they want and there is nothing you can do about it but try your best to counter it.
Comments
Fine, if you feel that way, who am I to convince you?
You do you sweetheart and have a blessed day.
Calling people "toxic" and "obnoxious" for the way they choose to play... and you're arguing people need to be nice to each other and have fun?
What a great example you're setting.
So we talk about fair play but the killer doing his one and only job to kill survivors is always met with "you're ruining my experience". People shouldn't get so upset about camping and tunneling because im not preventing you from playing the game, its one match where you didnt make it out, load into another one. Just like killers aren't entitled to kills, survivors aren't entitled to escape.
Well, I never mentioned someone being "toxic" but okay I'll let that slide.
And of course I'm going to criticize someone if their method of play is unsportsmanship-like.
So, yes I hope I am setting a good example for others.
They're not entitled though.
That's my entire point.
No need to camp, no need to throw hissyfits, no need to gloat.
Just try your best and if everything else fails just go to the next match.
You could probably regain your lost BPs in your previously bad games in the next one if you do better.
and if you still can't do that, then maybe he/she doesn't belong in that rank, just saying.
Its not an optimal strategy, but a lot of new killers, and even some old killers who know what it does to newer survivors use it because well.....
A lot of survivors have no idea what to do during a face camp and no idea how to avoid being tunneled, and have no idea how to help their team mates avoid being tunneled.....
^ Mostly because none of these player made rules actually exist in the game.
Tunnelling & Camping are perfectly valid strategies and the community demonising killers who use these tactics really need to look at themselves for being entitled, petty and toxic as hell.
Sure, it's not fun, but guess what, this is a video game where one side is out to destroy the other and use everything they have to achieve that goal. Survivors want to escape and killers want to kill, so why is it only killers who get these societal rules of what is acceptable behaviour or not? Killers can't play X Y Z, camp or tunnel and have to make it fun for the four survivors but those very same survivors are not expected to make it fun or easier for the killer.
Fact is, camping and tunnelling have perk counters and people expect the killer to not use these strategies when its incredibly beneficial to them and act spoilt when they do use them. It's entitled and needs to stop ASAP because as a killer main, getting screamed at for camping the hook after all the generators are done and securing a kill instead of letting them go almost every game is starting to make me bitter towards survivors and I'm sometimes tempted to just Stridor Spirit and tunnel every survivor off hook because I'm just fed up with being expected to throw games basically and get bullied or else I'm a horrible person.
I don't blame you for feeling that way. The survivors really are the more powerful role.
False equivalency. We're talking about pickup games with no house rules.
If I was in a KYF with house rules - then yes, that's poor sportsmanship.
But playing within the confines of the game using tactics that the devs themselves have said repeatedly are allowed and not bannable do not apply.
People are always going to play to win in random games.
You keep equating the killer camping to them being mad or throwing a hissy fit when its not either. In many cases camping is the best play a killer can make. Its never with the intention to ruin the fun of one side, its just playing the game. Players should always look at being hooked even once can mean death, you're not always going to get 3 hooked. As much as people can play hyper agressive and get 12 hooks, if i choose to defend hooks whats the harm in that?
It doesn't help when I'm trying so desperately hard to make Trickster work and all four survivors are basically invincible and impossible to down because the killer is so horrendous and because they're so hard to catch, they get cocky and start tbagging.
Spirit Stridor is really therapeutic, maybe I should do it some more.
I really don't see any difference between real life competitive games and computer ones. Even if it is NOT KYF.
Just because rules don't specifically mention every single dirty plays as fouls doesn't mean it's not accountable.
In football, you can tackle players and cause them to slip and fall. As long as it is playing by the rule and not too excessive, it's all good.
But spectators can see which player plays dirty and which don't.
The same goes for this game or any other game tbh.
Just because the devs say "camping and tunneling are viable options" doesn't mean they promote people doing it often, cuz they know it's not good for the game itself.
Of course, this applies to survivors too, don't get me wrong.
My point is that just because there isn't a rulebook that lists everything out, it doesn't mean it's frowned upon.
Like i never want to resort to using the absolute best killers possible because i like pushing low tier killers to their limits and showing that they can compete. Its when im playing weaker killers and then survivors try to bully me for no reason that i bust out the big guns and then get met with "tryhard". There's no winning when i play killers cause when i do good they give up and it feels hollow but when they slam gens they tell me to get good.
No harm to you, of course. After all, you're not being hooked and losing the game right?
And regarding camping being the "best" option. Sure, it can be, but it doesn't mean it's not a hissyfit.
A child wants a toy, and it knows throwing a tantrum in public will secure it, cuz it always works.
Of course, the child is happy and will ask "what's wrong with me using a viable option to secure what I seek?", but for the parents and the people around it will probably sing a very different tune.
Just change child to killer, toy to kills and tantrum to camping and it'll make better sense.
Your problem is that you are writing rules into the game that don't exist.
In football, there is a rulebook that decides how points are scored and what boundaries you don't cross. Video games have these as well. The code itself dictates what you can and can't do. And whatever the code can't cover, the devs will often outline by specifically prohibiting certain behaviors.
THAT IS THE ONLY RULEBOOK THAT MATTERS IN RANDOM VIDEO GAMES
You'd have a leg to stand on if the devs say specifically not to camp or not to tunnel. However, they refuse to do so. At the most, anytime an exploit is found that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to stop these behaviors (IE, blocking an unhook prompt), they've fixed the exploit.
Doesn't matter what your personal feelings on the matter are. If a person "chooses" to go easy on their opponent, that's their own personal choice. But you CANNOT expect others to be the same. And it's objectively unfair to expect others to live by rules that aren't enforced by the devs or the games code.
No matter what you do, survivors will complain, because they're spoilt and disrespectful.
You win pretty easily or quickly? ''Oh my god, tryhard, sweaty, OP killer''
You struggle and lose? ''Wow, you're so bad, how are you rank 1..?''
God, I'm getting really bitter at survivors now lmfao
Being hooked is expected from the survivor side tho. Again camping is not throwing a tantrum, throwing a tantrum is survivors yelling at the killer for doing their only job, killing survivors. Survivors are never not able to save anyone being camped, so why do they get mad everytime? Children don't know any better so sure people will appease the child to not make a scene. This however is a game where death is a constant and survivors goal is to TRY to eacape, but when they cant and are defeated they accuse the other side of not playing by the rules.
I never said I expect killers or survivors to go easy on someone else. Vice versa.
What I am saying is that camping is a inefficient way of playing the game which ruins the experience for both parties.
Oh and regarding football, those rules are so arbitrary that it gets revised all the time. Nonetheless, sportsmanship is a common feature in all competitive game. The same should be for DBD.
If you argue that such "rules" (I dunno why being a good sportsman is considered a "rule" in the first place but oh well) are not written in stone and therefore can be discarded, then you do you.
One of us will be screamed upon and frowned upon and we'll see who it will be.
Well, since you barged in a conversation you wouldn't have gotten the context of that "hissyfit" argument.
To recap, I was comparing tantrums to camping when killers become desperate for any kills near the end when they have done miserably during the match.
I don't find normal camping to be tantrums at all. Just poor decision made by dumb killers.
Wow, pretty prejudiced of you to say the least huh?
Only survivors who complain 24/7 about EVERYTHING are spoiled little bastards.
Just like killers who complain 24/7 about EVERYTHING are spoiled little bastards.
Not all survivors and killers are the same mind you.
Alright so im gonna stop you right there, no one barged into anything. This is a public forum and i can see the context of conversations just fine. In the context of camping during endgame the killer literally has no other objective aside from the person on the hook. It's not desperation its just a fact that they have nothing else to do so why try and shame them for it?
You take this pretty seriously don't you?
Also, what do you mean they have nothing else to do?
Is camping their ONLY option? If they don't camp do they get kicked out of the game by the system?
Get out of here with that BS, buddy.
I can't tolerate soft-minded BS like that and it ticks me off.
They ARE doing it out of desperation. You can spin it however you want it to.
You think I've never been in that situation before?
I lose. Boo hoo. Too bad.
Just queue up for the next match for god's sake.
And they say survivors are entitled. Oh, the irony.
I feel you. I'm having a hard time going against trickster bc I still don't know how to counter him lol
Taking it seriously, no im just trying to stop the constant disrespect killers get for just playing the game. What do you suggest killers do in that endgame situation? It seems like you want to say that they cant do anything, shouldn't let themselves be put in that situation in the first place, and should let all survivors escape. Im not spinning things in any kind of way, you seems to have a personal vendetta against camping and nothing can change your mind. If someone dies from camping just load into the next match for gods sake. But if i say that it's me being a toxic butthurt killer right?
You keep giving killers a pass for "playing the game" while you don't give any opposite viewpoints of any of your arguments.
Frankly, I have.
I can't stand both survivors and killers playing unsportsmanship-like and I call them out for it.
You and many others, on the other hand keep covering bad actions made by killers with all these excuses.
Oh, camping is fine cuz we deserve kills.
Oh, tunneling is fine cuz we need to kill in order to win.
etc etc
So tell me then, what is smth that killers do that should be prevented?
I would really like to hear from someone who finds none of the actions done by killers reprehensible.
He meant they have nothing else to do, because there are no other objectives. There are no more gens to pressure or break, no more totems to protect unless they have noed or their devour somehow made it to egc. What other option is there, besides standing in the corner afk and letting the survivors waltz out the gates?
THAT MEANS YOU LOST THE MATCH. They were better than you, end of story.
Just give up on that trial and go to the next one. Why's that so difficult?
and shame on whoever prolongs the game than being necessary.
I hate when survivors do that and gloat near exit gates.
That person has gone awfully silent hasn't he?
So just totally give up and boo-hoo in the corner when there's 3 survivors left and the egc just started? What a load of bull. I'm sure not even you would do that.
You can prolong the game, sure, but not for an infinite amount of time anymore. EGC got rid of that. If you're so impatient, either chase them out or DC.
Not for long, I'm afraid.
No, I'll tell you what I do with no BS whatsoever. I swear on my entire family lineage just to be sure.
I literally go around breaking every unbroken pallets that has been left behind.
I also look for the hatch (if there is one) and try to close that too.
That takes up a good chunk of endgame time mind you.
I sometimes see despicable survivors at the gates and I just go as far as possible from them.
Sometimes they'll follow me, clicking their flashlights or doing smth obnoxious, but I ignore them till they eventually leave or they get stabbed by the entity.
It's not too hard. I don't need to stoop that low to feel good about myself.
Now you're abandoning your only objective left, which is the main objective-- go for kills. You're called a killer for a reason, right? And you don't have much room to complain about survivors gloating and wasting your time if you're not willing to do anything to get rid of them.
Like what sort of face-camping bubba monstrosity did you run into that traumatized you this badly? Do you need therapy or something? Even I don't have this much of a problem with face camping... like you said, just brush it off and queue up for the next match.
Selfish people will always play killer. That’s why I prefer to play survivor, better people you can play with. So many killers think they deserve 4k against 1.000 hours swf, but they don’t. But they want it anyway, so now it’s a culture that any killer deserve 4k. And when they see gens done and they can’t hook anyway they think they deserve 4k anyway, so they camper and Tunnel. Next week I’ll play 100 games with pay to win Freddy and I’ll camper and tunnel with pgtw, b&c and tinkerer. And I’ll camper until tinkerer activate and I’ll slug for the 4k. I’ll post my result, but I’m sure it will be 400 survs died, hatch escape or dc
If I wasn't able to secure kills DURING the match, I sure as hell don't deserve any at the end game.
With that mentality, I'm able to grow as a person and as a player, cuz I'm not entitled to anything.
Just like when I play survivor.
If I failed to survive, I don't complain about killers being OP. I just move on and reflect on my match.
Oh, and by the by. I'm not the one who's complaining about camping being frowned upon, cuz I NEVER DO IT.
Sure, it can be prejudice or whatever and I do recognise both sides complain to a degree and not every survivor or killer even does.
But from my experience, playing either side I see a massive amount of more salty survivors who act petty, entitled, and spoiled.
I mean, how many killers do you see going "Don't do gene" VS "Don't tunnel or camp" who play survivor?
Definitely option B
You acknowledge you are prejudiced in your own words and yet you ask me, a player who criticizes both roles whether I see more toxic survivors than killers?
Don't make me laugh.
You already made up your mind about survivors, so there's no meaning in answering your question.
There's no point.
So a killer who brings an endgame build for the sole purpose of using it during endgame doesn't deserve to get kills because he didn't get any before the exit gates were powered? Think about what you're saying here. And guess what? None of those builds don't require camping.
With that mentality, you're not "growing" at all, and you can stop acting entitled to having a match without a camping killer. And before you say you're not, you're whining about how obnoxious camping is way too much for you to really not be bothered by it.
And I was never complaining. In fact, I specifically said I didn't mind it too much, at least not enough to do anything about it. Did you even read the original post?
I mean, it'll take a 5 year old kid less words to realize my disdain towards camping.
No s^*#t Sherlock, where in my words do you see anything that positively views camping?
I'm surprised you just realized this.
Also, I'm not saying YOU, Oreo7 was the one complaining.
I'm saying I never camp, therefore I don't complain it being complained about like some players. Player, Zaytex being a prime example.
I give killers a pass for just playing the game just like i dont care how survivors play the game. Both sides have different goals, i dont care or go out of my way to complain when survivors escape but they always complain when i kill them. You keep acting like killers killing is unsportsmanlike and automatically bad when its not. Doing gens and eacaping is just fine and ill never condem survivors for it since that's their end goal, i expect them to view killing the same way. There is nothing that killers can do that survivors cant counter, i expect them to find the best way to handle each situation and adapt because that's all i ever do as killer.
Stiring the pot huh?
If a killer wants you dead he will eventually get you. I've been tunneled 3 hooks straight so many times it's hard to count at this point. It doesn't matter how long the survivors wait to get you off the hook or body block or whatever the killer will eventually catch up to you even with DS/BT. It's a big flaw of the game and the fact that you still derank while being the only person hooked three times in a row even through DS makes it sort of garbage. It's rage inducing.
Ugh, you know what.
I'm sick and tired of saying the same s^&*#t over and over again.
Listen, buddy.
I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH KILLERS KILLING.
Hell, why would I play a killer if I have a problem with killing in the first place?
It's the method that is being used! Got that now?
It's how you kill I have a problem with.
And if you want to find exact reasons for this, you have 15+ posts to read about.
You've been actively saying camping is trash and garbage and when anyone calls you out on it, you go back and say "well I don't complain about camping because blah blah blah everyone else needs to suck it up". That is what you've been doing in literally almost every comment you've made. Obviously I know you have a vendetta and you're in need of a therapy session, but the least you could do is stick to your story. This is getting stupid and it's because you can't make up your mind between "camping sucks" and "I've never complained about anything, ever".
But im the unreasonable one. Also in not one of my posts have i tried to attack them, yet they come off as pretty hostile every reply.
I understand camping at EGC it's like ######### let me get one kill. But within the first minute and there's no-one around it's eye rolling.
Granted there's some survivors whose definition of camping and tunneling is as wide as the horizon. Like if you just hooked someone and there was another survivor around and they think your camping and won't leave the hooked guy. Or that one guy that always gets caught every two minutes so he gets hooked. Because his teammates are better at hiding.
Okay, Oreo7. Imma lay it out like how I teach my young students, okay?
I have a problem with camping in general, yes.
But here's where it gets divided:
NORMAL CAMPING
"Survivors also have to play selfishly or must replace the hooked one instead.
Both don't get objective points and both waste their time.
So it's ultimately a crap experience for both parties.
Camping forces killers to stick to one survivor and do nothing else."
DESPERATE CAMPING AT ENDGAME
Okay, now that we got the two difference clear, let me tell you that nobody called me out on anything.
I still stick by this, have stuck by this and will stick by it.
What others have done is made their own reasons why their opinions differ, which I also coherently answered time and time again, civilly.
You got that now?
I'll also take your advice in seeking therapy. While I do that, please do me a favor and go to a library and read some books. Your reading comprehension needs work.
You say you don't expect killers or survivors to go easy on anybody else. Except when to camping I guess then? Because when I hook somebody, have another downed on the ground nearby, and a 3rd clicking the flashlight behind a palet 16 meters from me, I now know where three survivors are with a 4th unknown and 3 generators left in the game. My safest play would be to stay near the hook as at the most, I might lose 1 generator as long as these other two are accounted for and not going anywhere and be down a pair of hands for the rest of the game.
But according to your logic, that's not fun for anybody. BS, because I'm in a strong position here and I'm protecting that position. Your logic dictates I should leave which MAKES ZERO TACTICAL SENSE. If people don't like that, that's on them for stepping into the arena with a random that is playing within the contraints dictated by both the game and it's devs.
The only real sportsmanship within the game (outside of not being a dickhead in post game chat) that exists is helping each other out of bugs. If a survivor gets stuck because of a bug, I'm not going to take advantage of that because that is clearly not intentional. I'll do my best to free them and send them on their way. If they do something that makes me think they are victom of a co-textual menu issue that gets them caught (such as opening a chest when they clearly meant to vault the window next to it), again, I'll let them go.
THAT'S SPORTSMANSHIP AS IT CLEARLY WASN'T INTENTIONAL GAMEPLAY
But not engaging in a tactic that has been explicitely santioned by the devs themselves because "it sucks for the guy on the losing end? Please - get over yourself. That's not sportsmanship, that's throwing the game.
Yes, I'll get yelled at. Just like I get yelled at for picking Doctor, just like I got yelled at for not engaging chases too far from my remaining generators. Just as I get yelled at for doing anything else people just don't like facing. It just means they have no bushiness playing the game because they clearly can't deal with how it beats them. That's their issue, not mine.
I get into these threads because I want people to realize that getting themselves worked up over how somebody plays in a manner that for all intents and purposes is intended is a waste of time - people are always going to do it. All these people are doing is working up their blood pressure over something that is supposed to be their leisure time. They need to take the fact they are getting so worked up as a warning sign and re-evaluate why the hell they are putting themselves through this pain.
Camping and tunneling happen all the time, whether it is intentional, or accidental. You could accidentally run into someone who was just unhooked, or you could intentionally go for them.
Sometimes there is a situation to camp a survivor because there is a finished generator next to them, or two really close by. The killer could also camp to let the person on hook die if they are almost out of time and the killer needs someone out of the game as well.
The killer really has no reason to avoid these situations unless they just want to be nice, which thankfully there are some nice killers out there who go out of their way for that. It is much appreciated whether or not people tell you.
Then there is intentionally camping and tunneling just to be a douche. It is honestly not even that big of a deal for me, I just laugh off a bubba face camping me and go into the next game, or if I am being hardcore tunneled then I make sure to waste as much time as possible. For others however, it upsets them quite a bit.
I also don't think that you can ever fully get rid of these strategies, but I do believe that you can encourage healthier and more fun gameplay. For example, if the game encouraged 12 hooking all survivors, the game would be more fun since there is more interaction with the survivors and killers.
Okay, you do you buddy :)
We'll just have to wait and see 😂
Wow, your actions are quite remarkable for a killer. If all killers started doing this, less survivors will be toxic.
Playing into their games is what fuels them.
Good on you sir!