Almo, why did you nerf Huntress' Lullaby?
@Almo I've just watched a youtube video called "Almo the game designer" on youtube.
There I saw the scene where because you couldn't hit doctor's skillchecks you said that huntress' lullaby won't affect snap out of it anymore.
https://youtu.be/g28KozjF0AIFrom this it's clear that this is the reason you nerfed it, in my opinion.
So I have to argue:
1 I can hit those "impossible" skillchecks, it's not that difficult.
2 Other players, comp teams will hit those skillchecks 100%, there are proofs and I can prove it.
3 Normal streamers hit those skillchecks
Why did you nerf a perk that was not only a hex perk, but completely useless against good players unless some specific situations where you could surprise people?
I didn't want to make this post, but after seeing a perk being nerfed for no reason for this (maybe) I got pissed off.
( In the case this wasn't clear, this isn't a personal attack, I just want to discuss about this. Maybe you're a wonderful person, but if Albert Einstein says 1+2 = 4 It's not, it's 3)
Comments
Now, I can understand a lot of things, thanks for the share.
It wasn't for "consistency" it was just a nerf to impossible skill checks doc.
It affected the doctor's madness. Now it doesn't affect it. Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure it affected the pigs traps as well. But that's gone too.
So lullaby is same no matter which killer uses it. The affects are the same across the board.
My point is that nobody really complained about it, but the devs changed it.
U can call it a rework. I call it a nerf.
Not sure about anyone else... but some of those skillchecks did actually seem a little too difficult.
there are only 7 skillcheck instances in the game,
Normal: Generators, Healing
Powers: Shock therapy, Jigsaws Baptism
Perks: Overcharge, Oppresion
Addons: Soul Chemical
Theoretically it should work with 5/7 of these which is more than enough to not limit design space
I am going to miss impossible skill check doctor, the snap out of it skill checks were part of the fun :(
Dude, you didn't read my post at all did you? Lullaby, again, did NOTHING of huge value for the madness skillcheck, because the pattern that the skillchecks appear, are ALWAYS the same! There is no difference if you have lullaby active or not, you KNOW the second you start snapping, there will be 3 skillchecks every 3 seconds!
Besides that, almo explained the reason for the change. It is not for complaints, but for maintenance, as each consecutive chapter will need a review if lullaby and other "special" perks will interact with the new killer power
WAIT Ethan is @Almo?! Why didn't I know this before?
It affects it though. It's not the pattern. It's the sound warning. So is the piggy traps.
We can agree to disagree. But even if it's a slight nerf, it is indeed, a nerf.
I'd like to bring up Unnerving Presence also no longer effects Snapping Out Of It anymore.
Balancing for higher ranks matters more than some people realize. If something ends up being too easy to play against in a higher-skilled environment, it can very much push people away.
This is why they need to scale these things based on your rank - lower rank survivors have larger skill check ranges, and as they get better, the skill check ranges get progressively smaller, providing more challenge and requiring more skill at higher ranks. Then everyone is happy, and people actually learn to get better.
By this logic, the progress made when Snapping Out of It should not be maintained when it is interrupted in the same way that progress on Jigsaw Boxes is not maintained when it is interrupted. Consistency is important, and the changes made to nerf Snap Out of It when Doctor was revamped in this regard do not track with similar abilities.
I've never once tried to argue that balancing for lower ranks was more important than balancing for higher ranks. I've consistently advocated for balancing primarily around higher ranks because I believe that is how it should be done. That does not mean that lower ranks should get left in the dust.
As someone who plays both killer and survivor, I agree with this 100%.
While playing killer, my queue times are less than 15 seconds every single match, because the number of killers out there continues to dwindle. I am constantly encouraging people to play both sides to be better at the game and enjoy the entire game, not just half of it.
While playing survivor, I pull up Words on Stream while in queue so my stream chat isn't bored watching me wait for 5-10 minute queue times. I have friends that play Diablo 3 in the background while waiting in queue, because it takes so ridiculously long, and is always getting longer as more and more killers leave the game to find something less one sided on balance changes.
The problem with this argument is that you're advocating that new survivors should be given a hand up simply so they don't quit playing the game. By this logic, players new to first person shooters should be given aim assist so they don't get frustrated, and then wean them off it over time.
Better logic would be to balance for higher ranks, and force players who want to play the game to actually....get better. I know, a shocking concept, developing skill to advance to higher ranks.😂
yeah, whatever. Still saying that, when you think it is a nerf regarding madness, then you didn't get that it was not that effective before. Impossible skillcheck doc is as hard as before. If you stop running it, it is your fault. The power is Unnerving Presence with Overcharge and the additional 6% regression on top, crushing the gens...
But hey, if you prefer to rant and blame BHVR over running a still equally strong build... your choice
You shouldn't balance it so a mediocre killer with busted perks and addons can beat any team a majority of the time and that is what you have right now. If the game was really balanced around lower ranks like you said, then survivors need MASSIVELY buffed because they are all dying within seconds of the match beginning. 9 out 10 matches is a bloodbath and that shouldn't be happening. Killers literally play the game on cruise control watching their perks tell them where to go.
Shadownerf or what? Can't find that in the patch notes. Sure about that?
That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that it is good to mitigate players having a miserable time and that this applies to both low ranks and high ranks.
I blame the entitled survivors ...
If everyone can hit the skillcheck then why does the nerf matter?
According to you anyone can do the skillcheck so the skillcheck should just be removed because it's obviously a nonissue.
I can't really remember if a survivor here complained about Lullaby affecting madness skillchecks
I get the impression that logic is not really the way to go vs this rant :P
This has been possible for 3 years, ever since huntress came out. Its been a know thing that the devs have accepted and we're okay with.
And ever since Pig came out this topic has been more relevant, and still the Devs did nothing. Nothing about consistency was brought up. If anything people believed jigsaw boxes skillchecks should be affected by lullaby to contain consistency with madness 3 skillchecks.
And now all of sudden its being changed. . . lol okay, definitely no reason for that.
The game balance decisions in this game seriously makes my head hurts
I tested it in KYF.
Honestly it's somewhat understandable, since Unnerving Presence explicitly says repairing, healing, and sabo skill checks. (Not that sabo skill checks exist anymore IIRC)
It's already been decided Snapping Out Of It isn't exactly a "healing" action anymore. I mean a VERY, VERY, VERY long time ago Nurses Calling was nerfed to not reveal survivors Snapping Out Of It anymore, Coulrophobia (Slower healing in the TR) doesn't work with Snapping Out Of It, etc.
Personally I think they should make the old Unnerving Presence Snap Out Of It skill check baseline if they are so concerned about consistency. Without UP it's not hard enough to hit. With UP it's challenging.
I'd like to also mention a decent while ago Unnerving Presence used to affect Jigsaw Box skill checks (just not Huntress Lullaby) but that was also nerfed.
Exactly what I been saying. Nobody complained, but it was nerfed.
you said "I blame the entitled survivors ..." which doesn't make sense if they have nothing to do with that
Dead by daylight is one of the only competitive game that balances for low skill players. No other competitive based game really does that. They balance for the highest tier of play so that the lowest tier has something to work towards and the high end players have competition. If you have a solid model that works at the highest tier then the lowest tier by default will be taken care of. A large majority of this games issues directly correlate to the fact y'all cater to new players at every turn when you should be telling them to play and get more experience and then move on to the top tier suggestions.
Oh no no no
It makes perfect sense cuz that was referring to the devs nerfing killers.
There's been a lot of nerfing killers for the last 5 months.
Due to the entitled survivor mentality. I blame them, and the devs too but more on the entitled survivors.
I'm in the process of data collecting. I escape most of my matches. It's just too easy to play survivor.
You should thank that they're not balancing the game for high level. High level dbd would make 99% of the community quit.
Not everyone (luckily) lives on dbd, this is not a competitive game, if you wanna compete there are real competitive games where you can challenge other players.
This game lives thanks to newbies, you have to make the game bearable for them otherwise you'll keep playing against always the same players that after a while, one by one will be gone.
It scares me that people like you are in charge of making design choices for this game. It has nothing to do with low ranks balancing (they are pretty balanced, the thing people hate is rank 1-15 balance because there are players who are not completely new), it just annoys me that the devs clearly cannot play the game on a fundamental level and thus don't understand it fully and just rely on statistics they can't even properly read and interpret and ruin the balance even more instead of listening to the dedicated playerbase and longtime content creators of this game.
Sorry to disagree but it makes no sense at all. Survivor entitlement wouldn't change a thing that doesn't help survivors and what they don't complain about.
Btw I'm collecting data as well regarding tunneling behavior, also taking notes on my games to see if I actually play as I think how I play. And guess what, 3.5k on average over 67 games. Totally killer sided game 🤣
But have u been playing survivor? Do u die as survivor most of ur games?
Does lulliby work with other skillcheck affecting perks, such as overcharge, oppression, or unnerving presence?
50:50
but what does that say about if the game is killer or survivor sided? and how entitled survivors forced a lullaby nerf they didn't even complain about? I just don't get your logic and assume there is none
I think you word that wrong. Overcharge and Oppression create skillchecks, they don't affect any. Lullaby and Unnerving affect only core mechanic skillchecks and not perk or power related skillchecks.
And yes, that's the point of the changes. Lullaby/Unnerving won't affect any existing nor upcoming perk related or power related skillchecks, but Lullaby and Unnerving target the same skillchecks (repair, healing) and will still stack, making no-cue small skillchecks for these actions
Honestly, all nerfs and buffs are kinda meaningless right now until a proper matchmaking system is in place where data can be collected that's actually accurate.
It's survivor sided cuz it's hard playing killer. But much more easier playing survivor.
U don't really have logic, u just have a angle arguement.
yeah, we can stop this I guess. Doesnt lead anywhere...
I love how we hold these really dumb standards for developers. Like if they're not fantastic at the game then they should have no input on the game, they have no credibility.
Like idk man, seems a little dumb to me.
Almo replying is the only reason a certain mod didn't immediately delete this lol. Hell if she see's this comment she'll probably ban me. Other than her the dbd team seem like cool genuine people so how the game so sorry!