Those killers that have no counter
What is the project here BHVR ?
I mean, creating killers that you can't counter at all.
- The Hag
- Gunslinger
- PH
- Stridor Spirit
Every other killers are fine but those are impossible to counter, nothing is working. If the killer is decent it's a 4k all the time without even using mindgame.
The only counter is gen rush which is not really the way i like to play the game.
Comments
I figured if any killer didn't have a counter it would be Plague, unless you want to cleanse and give her more power
All of these Killers have some sort of counterplay. Not fun, but it's still present.
Only Nurse and Pyramid Head have no counters.
Then don't get chased make them waist time by being in a area and not finding you
Wouldn't have to worry about totem aura if 3 gens could be done in 80s and if you were semi decent you would probably have an idea where totems spawn iron will is always on ok pick killer w stridor that's 1 less perk they can use and your still 50%quieter if they don't silent
Hags ability can be completely countered by a flashlight and red twine add-on for the map. Not to mention small game. In the undying and ruin meta, it's being used more now than ever. And I still don't know how people can't get deathslingers name right. I
So the real trap the OP fell into here is insisting that these killers didn't have counterplay, but defining counterplay as 'mindgames.'
However, in theorycraft for games, counterplay actually denotes the idea that a given option or ability can be defeated with a diverse knowledge of matchups and mechanics and utilizing the correct tactics to defeat the given mechanic that has good counterplay.
By this definition, only Hag really doesn't have good counterplay, as hag nests are a bit... silly on defense and it becomes less 'You need to know more than how to run a braindead loop to beat hag' and more 'Hag legitimately shuts down a lot of aspects of the game that are actually healthy due to her absurd level of map presence in a game sorta defined by the killers having poor map presence but extreme presence in their local area.' She isn't unbeatable, but I think her defensive power is overtuned, its telling that despite being a 115 MS killer with a massive lunge Demo is considered significantly worse than hag despite also having similar cross map potential.
It isn't that nothing works vs the hag, its more that the things that DO work don't work very well and don't actually serve to meaningfully overcome gamestate the hag engineered at some cost, which is what counterplay should do. Ideal counterplay is something undesirable to generally do, and usually has some cost so the countered ability still gives value, but still clearly rewards you for countering it. In hag's case you aren't really rewarded and in many cases you are actively punished despite correctly countering it due to the counters sorta being self defeating: like turns out crawling around in areas to avoid the hag teleporting to you just means she runs to you AND still has the traps. You might be able to preemtively clear traps and distract her but it isn't... great... in the same way that you feel really rewarded for say... noticing Demo is in a chase and using that time to safely clear a critical portal of his knowing your safe to do it despite being made unaware.
Everyone else has tons of counterplay. Its just that the counterplay involves getting good at aspects of DBD other than mindlessly looping, which the OP doesn't want to do. But the entire point of a diverse cast is to make different members of it feel different to play. Guile shouldn't be able to beat literally everyone in streetfighter by spamming Flash-kick and Sonic Boom, if that is all you can do you DESERVE to get rocked the second anyone with an armored move or a move that can wiff punish half screen comes in to grab your booty.
Likewise, if every killer could be looped, every matchup would ultimately be the same and the game would kinda be boring. Killers that have anti-loop abilities tend to have other weaknesses. Lower movespeed for GS, Spirit, and Hag, for example, makes it hard for them to counter gen pressure done by stealthy survivors who avoid chases, and it makes it harder to search an area too, meaning that the 'damage' you do by hiding and quickly going back on the gen if they are patrolling is more intense. This rewards you more for tracking the killer, being good at hiding, or knowing how to actually END chases FAST rather than EXTENDING chases.
Like... get good at more aspects of the game. You don't have the right to win every match doing the same exact thing every single time and getting upset when a killer's power asks 'Hey got anything else? If you don't you die :3' when the power's kit is (generally) full of weaknesses.
And remember, ideally the game is balanced so that if no side makes ANY mistakes, 2 survivors die. But in reality its more interesting if mistakes are super common, and anti-loop killers generally have a lot of room for both sides to make mistakes.
1) don't do everything the way others do it. if you have a favorite big named streamer that does things and you emulate them the killer might know what you're going to do.
2) know your suroundings and what you can do. I HAVE actually palleted the nurse before and they were red ranks! how? got damn lucky but i force a directional shift and it messed the killer up.
3) Know what the killers can do, play killer if you're a survivor and play survivor if you're a killer. why? you learn how things look from the other side. doesn't matter if you are bad or not.
4) every killer has counter plays but they are not the same in all cases. as has been stated many times.
5) have fun and enjoy don't be an ass either. no having fun? stop playing for the day.
I was gonna say they can be countered but you got it.
Nice to see/know someone that doesn't enjoy a five minute gen rushed game.
You guys are funny or dumb i dunno.
When survivors were immersed and you never found them, you we crying on this forum cause it's not a hide & seak game.
When survivors were pallet looping you came right here again crying that it's not a chase game.
But now you say that it's a hide & seek game.
Bunch of low IQ really... If you think there is counter play with those killers while it's 4k in almost every games (many high skilled killer mains admitted it) then you are trash.
I have played killer, against red rank with demogorgon, PH and GS, was getting 3k+ 80% of the time against red rank while i just have 20 to 30 hours as a killer.
Only counterplay working was SWF gen rushing. No gen rush it was an easy win for me. And gen rushing is clearly not a good gameplay feature or a good strategy, we don't play generator simulator, we are playing DbD...
Well, you're certainly not in the 'funny' category of that statement.
Counterplay varies from killer to killer, one would think that's obvious, but nice attempt at oversimpification and false equivalents, what's next? strawmanning?
exactly:
if he is able to shoot you with no TR, you should have direct LoS to him.
and if you dont have a direct Los to him, you will get his TR as a warning before he can approach you and line up a shot.
and that you brought Tinkerer into this just shows that you dont understand the current meta and why it is the way it is.
Tinkerers stealthy approach has nothing to do with why its "meta" - the perk itself isnt even meta, its just the combination of it with Ruin and Undying. the thing that makes it meta is the early warning a Killer gets whenever a gen is about to be repaired.
This warning allows them to go and interrupt the gen progress and allow Ruin to take effect. This makes this combo of perks on any high map pressure Killer can apply insane amounts of pressure on both generators and totems.
the stealthy approach is a nice bonus to the perk, but its not at all the main reason why it is used in this combo.
first of all, fun is subjective.
regarding your "i cant loop them into oblivion" part, have you ever considered that maybe you will have to loop them differently than you do with any other killer?
yeah, if you try to loop a Deathslinger the way you would loop a Wraith you are going to die. every time.
Deathslinger, despite his great chasing ability is still loopable. you just need to use LoS blockers to your advantage and use gamesense to predict and dodge incoming shots.
you cant loop him as long as you can loop a Wraith, but you can still run him around for a bit - same applies to the others aswell.
Hag is someone you dont want to loop around her setup, so leave that area / ruin the setup whenever she cant use it (they should remove that dumb automatic cam focus on her phantom tho)
PHs faking ability has been nerfed just recently and while it still is there, you can play around it a lot better now.
Spirit is the only one in here where i think that she'd need some actual changes. first of all a bugfix so you can actually hear her footsteps again and then they should cut the chase music as soon as she goes into phase. that would be all the changes she, imo, needs rn.
Hag, bring a flashlight. These can destroy her trap things. Make the deathslinger shoot. But be in a spot where if he hits you, you go behind cover. I do not know who PH is so sorry. But for spirit, try to mind game and listen for audio cues.
"gamesense to predict and dodge incoming shots"
Once he reloaded, yo ucan't predict when he will shoot. It's quickscope, on a straight line from a loop to another, you can't know when he will shoot, it has nothing to do with game sense lol.
But guys, as you are pros, go on a game in red rank, find a gunslinger and record the game, post the video here, we are waiting.
Also, do the same against other killers listed in my 1st post.
And don't post Noob3 or Ayrun videos cause clearly there are only 2 players like them in DbD, no one else is nowhere near their skill level.
BTW, Noob3 stopped playing because balance problems and bugs and servers :).
... i think you should play some Deathslinger.
then you'll get what i mean by "gamesense to dodge shots".
They all have counterplay, you have to figure it out or ask.
Ahh yes holding w in chase is very fun versus other killers I have to actually watch out for mind games and things but deathslinger, hag, pyramid head, and spirit it's kinda just like oh your power just kills me with almost nothing I could do about it. I'm not saying they are op just saying that's what makes them, in my opinion, unhealthy for dead by daylight. This game isn't a 1v4 game it is a 1v1×4. The game needs to be balanced for the 1v1 and then change objective times accordingly and there will be better experiences on both sides.
Those killers don't tunnel because theres an obssession. Im my nearly 4 years in this game I can count the other killers I've versed as survivor that don't just relentlessly tunnel when no obssession on one hand.
beside the hag, u cannot counter top tier killers that use those killers in chases, ur only option is genrush, deathslinger tho u can counter with object of obsession but u can still lose, hes too oppressive, if hes 1trick master that never miss, then gg, u need a good top tier team to verse it.
everybody is fine, beside slinger, slinger is not fine. his instashot is broken, u tell me u play a lot, im top tier 1 of the best players in dbd over 3k pro gamer, pro looper gen rusher carrying every game, and also pro killer, master huntress tier and ex pro billy before the nerf. playing all the killers insanely good.
i dont look for fame, but i want to state that slinger should get higher movement speed and big nerf on his instagun, is absurdly broken if u truly master slinger. hes still weak against object team tho. but beside that. meh.
Cool but don't suggest a perk as a counter when we have no idea which killer we are going up against. That shouldn't be considered a viable counter because not everyone has/uses said perk.
The others I agree with but hag- no. No no. No. She has plenty of counters. Flashlights, crouching, looping and knowing to just hold the run button.
that's not an argument, he or she will find you eventually
Heck, if anything Patience is a huge counter. Most people dont want to crouch walk 10 feet to a hook because it "takes too long".
The Hag
flashlight to destroy her traps, and crouch to avoid triggering them,
Gunslinger
break line of sight as much as you can, bait the shots , early pallet drops.
PH
crouch to avoid triggering the curse, you can hear it when he plants his sword and you have a split second to dodge the long range slash
Stridor Spirit
remember that spirit cannot see you and cannot vault when using her power