Killers - ENOUGH WITH THE RUIN/UNDYING ALREADY
Christ almighty. Every other... no every 2 out of 3 games is this goddamned broken build. If the devs aren't going to fix it, how about you killers admit that it makes the game easy as goddamned hell and stop running it. I started equipping Small Game to hunt the totems down but it still doesn't help since the aura feature brings the killer to me and I end up getting stopped. Add Tinkerer or an Ebony Mori... this is just more freebie killer fun at survivor expense. When will you devs wake the F up.
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Well it's for aggressive M1s like Nurse. BBQ, Infectious, Sloppy, Blood echo. You get one injured down them down the other person with infectious hook him go back to the other person injured with BBQ. Who's injured because of sloppy and he won't get away because Blood Echo took his Dead hard or Sprint Burst or any exhaustion perk. Then rinse and repeat or keep Sloppy and Blood echo and change out the other two but that's my build.
Not exactly. My build is spine chill calm spirit bt and sb. Its designed for my play style. Only thing that gives me trouble is nurse and spirit. Or a great killer in general. Also i know the difference between 1v1 and 4v1. Im not the only one on my team. There is 3 other survivors. I also know the real object is to waste killer time. If do know how to loop so i can buy my team time if i need to.
And most importantly. Adaptability. Everything doesnt always go according to plan. So you do need to think on your feet.
No u right, just saying, ggs.
Camping is the noobstomper of strategies. If survivors keep going to the hook even when you're there then you'll win, if they are smart and stick to gens you'll lose.
Nobody does it cause it's a losing strategy if you do it without thought
Sure i'm not totally on board with the pop nerf but it didn't hurt it that much at all realistically. maybe a 10% drop im pop value.
Ooo i like that. I may try that on my freddy or something
Can i change my name to badboykaru and just go around disagreeing with you?
Ahh here we go was waiting for someone to pull the ur an entitled survivor main card without knowing that i literally have 2/3rds of my 3k hours on killer.
It is more than feasable to play fairly and win without ruin and undying. Are you saying that ever killer who won before this perk combo played scummy? That's just nonsense.
Do it
BBQ, Infectious, Sloppy, and Blood echo for the agressive M1s. Blood echo after you hook someone every injured person will get hemmorhage which is worthless but exhaustion also which is the selling point 1 min cool down. Exhaustion lasts 45 seconds. Here's the build you get someone down them get that other person with infectious. Hook the person get to the person downed first they didn't heal because of sloppy which means you get to them and can't use their Dead Hard or Sprint Burst to get away rinse and repeat. Or just run sloppy and blood echo and get creative with the other two but that's what I've used.
Dude the dbd forums r literal killer main city and look how many complaints are here.
Both sides complain, survivors aren't the evil supervillains in all of this and killers the holy saints. Both sides have their issues. Stop talking like tru3.
Other than ur counter accusation to my accusation, u haven't countered any of my points.
I mean, I could go,
Ah... Another entitled survivor who claims to be killer main, but acts like a entitled survivor.
Playing "fairly" is extremely subjective. In the world of dbd, anything and everything goes. Is the killer OP? Yes! Are 4 survivors w meta perks OP? Of course!
Is the game balanced? No!
Does entitled survivors make up a rulebook for ppl to follow? Yes!
That's the problem, there is no fair, or unfair, u just play how u want to play, and follow ur own rulebook without imposing on others, or guilt shaming killers to alter their style of gameplay.
Can I get express permission to reference your rulebook if the need arises.
Just thinking ahead.
Smile guys.
😃 Happy day after Halloween 🎃
Yes, feel free to call me out on if I break the rules I set for myself, since I try my absolute best to follow them regardless of circumstances. The only, and I mean only, exception to the no tunneling rule is when there's an OoO. Then I'll try my best not to, but I might 'slip up'.
I know this is derailing the thread but i want your thoughts on something i said earlier.
Do you think devs are forgetting killers tunnel ooo out the game which is why they have such low survival rates?
Killers are not saints, both sides probably does have issues. But the survivors are way more toxic than killers.
Just look at PS4 dbd players. So many ppl shut off communication from others becuz they get toxic messages from other survivors, not becuz the killers are harassing them. Killers turn it off too, becuz win or lose, survivors always got something to say.
Just look at the rulebook, it's made for killers and they get guilt shame if it's not followed.
There is no rulebook for survivors to follow, if there is one, nobody cares. And survivors don't feel any guilt, they are entitled.
You got it! I'll keep you on track.
Also OoO should be null and void regarding any rules set for honor/fairness. I'd personally forfeit all match point and exp for an ivory Mori as soon as I see OoO.
I do think when quoting low escape rates this particular stat was overlooked, but (as I said in my summary) I do also believe the developers listen to community feedback. The experience's of the developers are clearly a stark contrast to our own (as they said to simply ignore the OoO user, which isn't the problem with the perk at all) so we just need to make clear exactly what the issue with the perk is, and give contructive, civil feedback to them (something this forum, and community in general, are not very good at).
I'll definitely try it out. Thx.
1: It's required in order to prevent killers from taking advantage of these scummy and easy tactics and getting easy wins. No i never said it NEVER comes into play please read my posts before you make these statements. I just said it comes into play alot less then ruin undying would. Personally i almost never run into ds and when i do im usually in a good enough enough position that it doesn't hurt me or its because i've been downing ppl fast with say nurse or blight etc.
2: No the combo makes ruin stay up all game unless the killer literally gives you the time to go and pop all of the totems and find them and travel to them and avoid any potential killers or their powers. I literally stom solo survivors as killer so much now that i intentionally dodge alot of bad players or solo surviovrs because i know the games gonna be boring and a free win. I wanna be playing a game where i can actively make choices to affect the outcome, not automaticalyl win because my oponents r garbage or cause of my perks.
3: I agree in that i like pop alot more as well. It doesn't give you free gen pressure and you have to use it wisely but it can also be very effective when used well. High mobility killers is what literally breaks ruin undying. I've played in tournaments with ruin undying blight and it's just been a stomp fest. In a TOURNAMENT may i remind you where there are co-ordinated teams.
4:The ability for you to down suvivors and beat them in a chase pretty much 100% comes down to you as a killer these days. Sure 2 years ago i might have agreed but so many more loops are mindgameable, easy to deal with or just generally unsafe these days. Plus over half of all killers have an anti loop as well which makes catching survivors a whole lot easier. If you're struggling to down survivors fast take time to rewatch you're gameplay. I can guarantee you will find many ways you could have played the chases better.
5:Sure good teams can deal with the combo but in no way do they "stomp" against it. It's actualyl quite challenging to deal with ruin undyign no matter if you're in a team or not, it's jsut that it hurts solo so much more. Survivors do need to get better you're right, but the game is forcing them to play better these days. You actually need to be good at looping to hold a killer now and you need to know alot of stuff about the game. This can not be said for killer, as you can liteally know the basics fundementals as killer and still stomp because of perks builds and killers, for example deathslinger you literalyl need to know nothing about mindgaming, very little about how loops work and you don't need to worry about a surviovrs skill level or their ability to dodge because of the instant ADS.
6:Corrupt and pop makes life easier but it doesn't siphon the survivors ability to have fun or win as an expense, and they require skill and game knowledge to use.
7:Sure you can learn the totem positions but at the end of the day it's all rng and you still have to go wandering around the map for ages even if you know where all the totems are. you also aren't taking into account any other factors regaring the killers presence and acting as if the killer just lets you go do whatever you want whenever you want. You don't need gen regresison perks on any mediocre-good killer that's just you wanting to use them to make ur life easier. Also think about this when was the most recent of those meta survivor perks released? Lullaby for the darkness. Almost 3 years ago. Killers on the other hand are constantly getting new meta perks. Sure survivors arent getting bad perk but nothing any where near the level of ruin undying, thrilling, surge, infectious, corrupt just to name a few recent killer meta perks.
8: I've played with this combo before,and i've seen what it does to you. You don't need to think anywhere near as much as without it because you don't need to worry about gen regression mechanics at ALL and you can afford to loose a chase and not get punished for it.
No i've got over 2/3rds of my hours on killer. DS/UB are far easier to play around with than ruin undying which the only options you have with that leave you punished and incredibly vunerable as i've mentioned before.
Thats actually valid.
You've literally got the most stealth urban claud build i've ever seen, and frankly ppl who seem to defend undying ruin always have this playstyle, which myself and many others in the game find incredibl boring, so no we are not switch to that playsyle.
So im unsure if someone mentioned this to you but... distortion counters undying 3x. Hopefully you arent a meta user and are willing to run perks to change the flow of the game. I would try using that
Sure play however you like but doesn't mean ppl r gonna like you nor does it mean you need to be better than ur opponets to win. This applies for both sides btw. If i loose to an urbanning blendette swf i know i didn't loose because i was outplayed or didn tdo well it was because there was nothing i could do to stop them from hiding everytime i was within 40 metres of them.
Tell me how it goes.
They missed the point with it. (Cold data without listening to us). They see no problem with OoO because:
1. Data shows low survival rate and mediocre pick rate.
2. It is only seen by them as a perk for anoying and distraction. They don't understand what it becomes when utilized in SWF.
So yes, low survival rate is purely from tunnelling them out. They need to cross-check the data to see how often ONLY the OoO is killed while 3 escape.
Oh wow! I never thought of that. I am a totem cleanser and run small game. I should use distortion. I wish it came w 5 tokens instead of 3 though. I could wipe out all the totems fairly quickly as I have a general knowledge of all the totems spots.
Well that is subjective isnt it? I find it more fun to see how close i can get to a killer with out being spotted.
Also... cant be an urban claud build if i dont use claudette or urban evasion. But literally thats semantics right?
Alsoooo.... "we find that playstyle boring so we arent gonna switch to that" ha... hahaha. Way to adapt and overcome your issues.
Well sure ur taking it to teh extreme where you get really good survivors + really bad map for ur killer + bad killer + no snowball or any other contributin factor. It's like getting an infectious nurse on bloodlodge as survivor.
You also gotta remember alot of weaker killers trade in gen pressure or mobility for other purposes, so perks allow them to compensate for it. Like doctor has an anti loop AND a tracking ability, same with plague, but both dont have any gen defence or mobility so thus gen defence perks become important on these killers.
PS4 is a different kettle of fish im not gonna comment on that. The reason ppl run into toxic survivors more often is because there are 4 survivors and only 1 killer, so statistically you should see toxic survivors 4 times as often.
It's not like killers don't have their own rule book. OoO= tunneled and out of game, just to give you an example.
How many others? Just a few? Thousands? This detail could change everything! Or nothing. Not sure
Most ppl play this game for the chases, not to hide all game. If ur saying you need to hide against ruin undying to win, then alot of ppl wont wanna play this game.
Yea I mean, I guess u could tell urself whatever it is to make urself feel better.
I'm a previous StarCraft player. I can stay calm in the most frustrating situations and believe that harassing ur opponent in a PvP game is totally cool.
I look for things that annoys my opponent and try my best to make his life miserable. I tend to get camped though once I'm hooked. If not camped the killer hits my struggling body a few times before going elsewhere. And I'm totally fine w it.
? Just look at the current discussion page, count, look how many are from svv, look at killer's look at what killer's post are, look at survivor's post, one ask for nerfing everything, the other ask how to do specific bugged challenge or challenge they find difficult in the rift.
4 svv 1 killer, the chance of complains from a svv is way higher than killers, It's simply mathematically so.
I don't deny killer complains, both side's fanatic are creating unhealthy situations and habits for the community since most of the community follow the mass like a heard of sheep, but stop pretending that survivor are not the main one on a constant crusade against everything killer is just plain denial. Main killer complain are DS+UB, they don't care about UB, they don't mind DS as an anti tunnel, what they hate is that the way DS work, even when not tunneling, you get stabbed in the butt, they ask to seek killer being buffed to see them all on par with the stronger one, same for perks, to give the game variety. Look at survivor's complain, everything is too strong on the killer side and need a nerf, they want DS to be even stronger, to see hook progress stop until the next game if the killer even look around the hook for survivors if nobody shows up on BBQ. XD
I play both side, I get to be insulted by toxic survivor when I i play killer or see them insulting each others and when I play survivor ? I get to see survivor do the same thing and constantly deny their involvement in anything and the killer either being silent or respectful. I see constant survivor teabaging everytime they specially for the one who reach the exit gate or spamming flash light at the killer, taunting the killer in end game chat. I'm only one man, but my experience that isn't based on denying the forum clear post or the clear toxicity happening too often to count if you play solo queue or killer from survivors
So unless your denial makes it that you can't see the actual forum and all it's post... Or didn't played solo queue since long enough for you not be aware of the current state of the game, I will gladly accept your apologies so we can move on to have a normal and constructive conversation =)
What im saying is by definition of survivor is to adapt to any situation to allow yourself to live. Btw, you missed the bt and sb in the build? If you dont like sb you can switch to any exaustion perk. Or any self healing perk instead of bt.
Which for the record you admitted to one of the biggest problems of the game. Survivors wanna rely on the same tiring things over and over again. Sure chase is fun. But how does that help your team? Youre just talking 1v1 and you deserve to lose. Every time. Sure you buy your team sometime but what if the killer is waaay better than you. You got into a chase for nothing cause its "fun" then come to the forums crying how it killer perks changes meta and is op.
And if youre on killer side, you really dont want long chases anyways because time is against the killer.
But my point still stands, I rarely get toxic messages from killers. Like almost never. If anything, I sometimes get killers who let me go. Or slug me instead of death hooking me just to give me another chance.
I get toxic messages like 100x more from survivors. Not 4x more.
And that 1 rule u came up w about OoO is laughable when killers gotta follow 10x that amount. Killers also get guilt trip on forums and in the games where survivors do not.
So I still believe survivors are more toxic. And I'm a survivor main. But played enough killer to understand the bull killers goes thru. There's a reason why most ppl play survivor.
Ruin staying up all game? Boy, must be hard to ignore all those totem for the whole game and blaming it on the killer perks... A totem is what? 15 sec to cleanse? If you can find 15 sec to cleanse a single totem out of the game cause the killer is always on top of you, killer is hacking video it, report it, no killer can do that. And if the killer isn't hacking... Well the problem is still on survivor not doing their job to counter such an easy to counter perk combo. This combo is only good when survivor refused to cleanse and chose to slam gens and ignore everything else, why do you think it's paired with tinkerer ? Same reason, punish survivor who have no awareness and blindly hold M1... Wait, aren't survivor always complaining about the game being all about holding M1 and not caring about the rest? Are survivor now complaining about having pay attention and do more than holding M1 on gens? Guess there's no pleasing some people. =)
Just re read your full message, I do mostly agree about your point on deathslinger, although I'd say that map knowledge is a strong tool against him if the player doesn't have that knowledge himself, be it to make him lose line of sight or double back at a blocked sight loop.
Im unsure if you were being sarcastic.. imma say you arent cause i like believing in people.
Yea people often forgets some perks counter killer perks and killers in general. Which is funny. Sure its not a perfect counter but 3 less totems on the board means less totems to cleanse. Unless killer also uses bbq and chili... then well. Yea you can quickly fall behind in distortion tokens.
I don't recommend pop. It's weak af.
It does happens to me a lot recently tbh that's why I'm saying it, first one pop undying then second one gets Ruin, I had a game where did happened in like the first 2 minutes. But you know what it's part of the game and I deal with it, plus that game me 2 minute where you guys where not slamming gens.
As for DS being anti-tunnel, you guys made that up BHVR never said it was a anti-tunnel perk clearly. When you get into a locker after a unsafe unhook l, all you get is 5 more seconds, I play nurse now, what are pallet,loops and building?
1) You said that the 1 min invulnerability doesn't come into play often. That means that killers aren't tunneling/camping all that much in your opinion. You cannot have it both ways, it is required and always needs to be used but it isn't coming into play. Literally any obsession means that the killer cannot tell whether it is in the game or not. 1 survivor having an obsession perk or the killer for that matter and there are 0 tells.
2) If ruin stays up all game versus non mobile killers... you are doing a horrible job. Sorry but excuses... if the killer can pressure you off all the gens, all the totems all the time... what the hell are you doing as a survivor team. Like something has to give if you play well, there is no where in the world that the killer can be every where. Spread out, do gens and totems... it really isn't that hard. Make them have choices to what they have to give up and what they protect. Learn to apply pressure across the map, be better survivors?
3) Euhm... footage please? Any tournament I have seen until now in the game usually is a stomp fest, but from the survivor end... not the other way around. Also once again, it is purely with mobility killers and the top % of the world if you are talking tournament level right. Should we balance the game around that caliber player, because then the survivor meta perks are also really busted to the point that tournaments tend to place hardcore restrictions on what can be used... why would that be?
4) Looping isn't about the survivor winning and not being hit, it is about the time span that it takes to do it. Killers are supposed to down you, but while they are trying to do that there are 3 other survivors doing what ever they please. Also... killers do need to know about looping, else the moment you encounter anyone decent they will ring around the rosy with you till 3,4,5 gens are done. This is a 4v1 game, killers are supposed to win the 1v1. The fact that a good survivor is able to hold a killer for very long amounts of time, showcase that killers also need to know what they are doing... else they are losing a 1v1 while there 3 more survivors to worry about. Also, specific killers are not an argument to state that ALL killers don't need to know the fundamentals and have no skill. It is like stating that trapper doesn't need to know about loops or game knowledge?
5) Actually good teams can stomp vs ruin/undying, unless the killer is also good. Then it becomes a challenge... isn't that the point of the game? Having a challenging experience if you meet someone of the same caliber and isn't it a bit worrying that it only applies to when they use a perk combo? Why are you so scared of a challenge... and you complain that killers want easy wins? Solo hurts more regardless, it is more challenging period, not because of some perks... I run kindred pretty much all the time, yet in a SWF that wouldn't really be needed for instance.
6) Undying/Ruin also doesn't siphon the survivors ability to have fun or win, they just demand that survivors also have game knowledge and skill. You have issues with it and you don't want to bring anything along to help you with it.
7) If you have issues with games lasting longer and not being 100% efficient, bring a map.... it will tell you where they are. You do need regression perks in the same way that you need DS. Is it as 100% requirement, no. Killers have more options, the meta changes based on what is available and makes current survivor perks better like Hunch and Small game... yet here you are complaining that you don't want to use them. Those perks are becoming more meta, because totems are getting more important as there are actual good hex combos. There are more ways than just one to make perks better, having perks that are countered by unused perks is a way to make those unused perks better.
8) Euhm... you don't have to think about kicking gens - which is totally and utterly useless unless you have Pop pretty much (2 sec investment that can ben undone with a tap), you still need to make sure they aren't on them holding M1, you also now have to consider the totems which if you don't run a hex isn't something to consider. You defend mindless, one sided easy perks to use on the survivor end and make their life easier.
You claim it is easy to play around immunity? Simply ignore it right... just you know let the guy do a gen in your face, save the dude you just hooked, crawl to the exit for a free escape... all easy play around right. I have been hit with DS after hooking someone else and downing the savior, I had people crawl to victory and DS me right before they got out for a free escape, literally no counter play at all... why was it still in the game at that stage, because I didn't tunnel and didn't camp. You know how you should play versus DS, tunnel them at the start of the game... it avoids the bullshit situation at the end game and if your response to that is... just don't let it become end-game, then I tell you just don't let go of a gen when they have ruin. Both sides have ######### to deal with, but you are very much in favor and defense of all survivor meta perks, but ooh way the killers have something that slows you down and makes the game a challenge.
All in all, you just want the game to be easier for survivors. The fact that good survivors can deal with the combo, indicates that it is the skill level and coordination that survivors need to learn - maybe it starts weeding out the bad red-rank boosted players? When I started playing killer and got my ass handed to me, all I heard was get good! Just play around it, adapt, learn to deal with the meta that we have on the survivor end. Why doesn't this apply both ways? I am not an amazing player, killer or survivor... instead of blaming the perks for my loss I look at what I could do better.
I hate to ruin it but I was the 70th upvote ;(
Just replace dead hard or adrenaline with small game or detective's hunch and do the bones.
All im seeing in thks thread is the killer isnt supposed to even have perks cause they are strong enough already. "But noones complaining about pop or corrupt or anything. Just ruin undying" You..... You are complaining about all killer perks because they give killer advantage. Because somehow ruin undying gives godmode and unlimited hitrange and instawins the game regardless of survivor skill. This game is such a mess
Cept, now the bones yell out "Help! Help! Creatures are touching me all over! Stranger danger!"
...and then the dear killer comes a'running. 😊
God forbid killers have any type of pressure when contending with DS/ Unbreakable combos every other game.
Yes, it does make for a boring game. HOWEVER, Ruin/Undying only works if survivors are repeatedly failing in chases. It's exposing just how terrible most survivors are in a chase. Most players don't even last 20 seconds. That's insanely bad on most maps.
Honestly,i wouldn't even call Ruin+Undying matches boring.
Killers using this combo means that there should be a lot of survivor and killer interaction,which is the most fun in this game isn't it?
Hex: bones protector
excellent counter point the survivor op will ignore. Remember, if the killer has an ability that is effective, that is unfair. No such rule applies to survivor.