Devs, why do you want to nerf pyramid head?
I don't know why you want to nerf him, he isn't op nor weakness, he is a good killer.... I have played vs him. Sometimes won and lose ... Please check it carefully
I don't know why you want to nerf him, he isn't op nor weakness, he is a good killer.... I have played vs him. Sometimes won and lose ... Please check it carefully
Read THIS post.
Tldr: This is an archived version of the DBD forum, it has all posts, comments and media. The archived data will be published at the end of October. This site is not in any way affiliated with or endorsed by Behaviour Interactive.
Comments
they have consistently ######### up good killers if the correct sentence right here
nurse is now boring to play, has ######### addons and nobody plays her, cooldown addition was a not necessary all they had to do was remove omega
billy is now boring to play, nobody plays him and his nerf was also unnecessary and also he never was top tier killer, he had alot of map pressure but was and still is loopable like every other killer with weak power that does not help in chases and gives total control to the survivors
spirit was never really "changed", if they will "change" her she will join the top trash killers guild with nurse, billy and now even PH after the upcoming changes
Exactly people say you can see it but by the time you see it is is hitting you. You actually have to dodge before he even lights it up.
Lol these all have limits/ some what counter.
Actually, if you are tormented and he puts you in a cage it essentially makes a lot of perks useless. Examples are Kindred, DS, Second Wind, Borrowed Time, Camaraderie, Deliverance if he for some reason decides to cage you on first time), Babysitter, We'll Make It and virtually every other perk that activates from being unhooked or being hooked, from both the guy who is stuck in the cage and the one who uncages you. And a lot red ranks recently are putting you or try to put you in the torment status before first hook, they hook normally but the moment you get off the hook they come right back or just camp to put in the cage virtually cancelling DS or any other hook based perk for virtually no real skill whatsoever. I think his cage needs a bit of a rework OR give the survivors a way to take the torment status off. Maybe something similar like Freddy's dreamworld mechanic.
I appreciate the effort and the long post, but I was replying to that person because they implied the same thing about Legion and I was very confused.
As to your original point, I disagree. The cages have their own downsides and the survivors have to put the torment on themselves by running over the trail, its more than fair. I believe its fine for 1 killer to not be susceptible to the absolute degeneracy DS allows, which is itself, a no skill perk. If anything its a negative skill perk that rewards bad play in its current state. Especially because the cages themselves work in a way that really hurts anyone trying to tunnel compared to just hooking them. BT is also in the same boat but to a lower degree.
The survivors do have a way to take it off, save someone from the cage. Don't unhook close to the killer and they can't come right back, if they're camping do gens. PH doesn't do anything that changes that dynamic, its survivor bad habits that cause those problems.
Ok whats the counters?
If you get unhooked while tormented just jump into a nearby locker. Now the roles are reversed and its the survivor who has zero counterplay, just how they like it.
Also lol nobody, NOBODY ever complained about babysitter not activating. Not second wind or camadaderie either. For what its worth pyramid loses BBQ and Pop which are two of the most powerful and common killer perks, along with MYC, Devour, and we can even name the meme perks like Huntress lullaby and blood echoes. It's actually a fair trade.
You must not like a killer that can clap...
if he loses zoning, he's just another M1 loopwhore boring killer
you guys just need a room w/gens and no killer so you can hold M1 in your safe space i swear
His ability can still be used without zoning, watch @GoodBoyKaru stream him, he still has amazing anti-loop, even without zoning. Maybe make his punishment easier to hit, and nerfing the zoning would be good.
You misread it again. You have the startup delay of .267 seconds, after that you spawn the first tiny part of the attack, then every .03 seconds after that the attack continues to spawn a little further until it has traveled the whole 8 meters. Maybe not 100% reactionary dodging for you, but if you know its coming (which you should unless your a potato), you can predict and react. Those two things combined with all the other flaws (again it adds up) make it fairly easy to dodge or juke, that's why you don't shoot a shot unless they're locked into an animation or you're really confident you can land the shot.The only time you might not be able to is if the killer gets you dead center and you don't have DH, everyone can DH the attack of reaction (again, except potatoes). But if the killer got you dead center you should get hit (and you're probably an easy target). From my experience, and plenty others (seeing as one of the biggest complaints is how easy to dodge it is), it is 100% able to be dodged reactively if you're not a potato, so maybe you're just a potato, which is fine, there's players of all skill levels (and judging by the reading comprehension shown, more than likely).
Heres an example from earlier..
”pYraMidHeaD hAs nO CounTerPlAy”
I’m sorry but what was my counter play to his sprint burst? Survivor wouldnt have even reached the window were it not for a second chance with zero counterplay.
What if I was using Myers? Then what? It was a safe window too so they get to the window, then a safe pallet nearby, then another pallet etc
But of course it’s Pyramidhead that needs changing.
Theres a reason less people are using the m1 loopable killers.
Oh whoops than my bad there.
The thing is it PH torment just makes the killer also play in a degenerate kind of way. It's not particularly difficult to make someone touch the torment trial, (lasagna trial as I like to call it) cause at the moment it's a bit buggy. The trial can literally turn invisible at times and you can accidentally touch it. Last game I had against PH happened, It was Barham and I was walking in the hallway with nothing on it but suddenly Steve just screams and I was tormented . After I got unhooked , not even 60 seconds in and killer straight up ignore a Nancy working on a can cause he saw me tormented and tunnels for virtually no reason. It can be annoying so I really think survivors should have at least a way to take the torment off without having to get send the cage in the first place. I know DS is super hated and understandably so but getting tunneled off hook just cause your tormented is not exactly to fun either. And no the Nancy that saved me after did a safe unhook. PH simply had bbq but even though saw the Nancy first working on a gen he saw a glimpse of Steve beaitiful hair and I got essentially tunneled cause, ######### me I guess and No I didn't even had DS.
I got tunneled off the hook cause I touch an invisible lasagna trail, super cool.
bruh, the attack doesn't last for .3 seconds, its longer. That would be 1 instance of the .03 propagation, and 1 instance does not "simulate a propagating attack wave" or have "individual Attack Trail Elements". No, its really not that ambiguous
"The Punishment of the Damned Attack Trail will spawn with a delay of 0.267 seconds" The delay before the attack, don't know how else you can read that.
"The individual Attack Trail Elements will spawn with a time offset of 0.033 seconds between each element to simulate a propagating attack wave." The individual particles that can hit you spawn with a delay of 0.33 seconds between each particle to look and act like a wave. Again, don't know how you're getting what you're getting from that. Also 0.33*8 is .264 not .267. You're also assuming each propagation is 1 meter long.
"Punishment of the Damned applies damage during 0.6 seconds" The time frame where you can be damaged at base. So we add that to the delay, the entire attack would take 0.6 + 0.267. So at base the attack takes 0.867 seconds, not counting the cooldown at the end and the startup time before you can even use the attack or any additional range. Well beyond the reaction time you gave earlier. Almost a full second is enough time to react with the size of the attack.
Its really not that hard to understand.
Edit: .6/0.3 = 20, so each particle would be around 1/20 of 8 meters, or 0.4 meters, NOT 1 meter. Basic math if I did that right.
I doubt the people that intentionally play the way I mention will even use those perks but I guess it somewhat of a fair trade. I simply mentioned some of the possible perks that survivors get countered. They don't have to be particularly good or particularly popular. They are simply examples.
You also have to understand tunneling is just an evil spawned from the way the game was designed. You cannot go around playing musical hooks if you want any consistency winning your matches. Your goal as killer is to get someone out the game ASAP. I understand its not fun, and I would like the game design to change so that's not the case so you can punish tunneling without punishing the killer for doing their job. I mean you could kinda do that now if you just rework DS so its only hits the hard tunnelers. I wouldn't say it lets the killer do anything they're not supposed to do. Survivors do gens, killers get people out the game, its how it works. It doesn't reward plays you shouldn't make otherwise. My main 2 problems with DS is that it hits people who were not tunneling at all, and that it just lest survivors do as they please without a care or repercussions.
I wouldn't say "for virtually no reason" or 'because i was tormented", it might have been because you were closer to getting out then the Nancy.
I can kinda see how you got what you got, just for me it looked very straightforward, I just don't see how you got the whole attack only being .3 seconds long at all, which is what you kept pushing at. Combining that with both mine and others experience, the majority saying how easy it is to dodge the attack, and the times given, which no matter how you slice it, its more that the value you game me for reaction time as far as I can tell. So the main point of it being reactable or not is a: yes its reactable imo. Given all the evidence and personal experiences of myself and other.
As for the confrontational aspect, you kinda came off that way saying things like "that is indeed the case" so I just responded in kind. Furthermore you kept pushing that the attack was impossible to dodge and lasted .3 seconds long for the whole wave, which is just clearly not true no matter how you slice the numbers. That or I have superhuman reaction time, which is definitely not true.
Yeah, sadly I know. I simply think PH torment ability can make him MUCH more of pain when it comes to tunneling. Since the usuals helpful perks against tunneling means Jack ######### for him.
Nah man, he had killed already one survivor and everybody else were already hooked once. There was no real reason to tunnel especially when there is literally somebody in the middle of the map and your POV doing a damn gen. But yeah I do know DS is pretty BS in general and kinda easy to abuse but I personally think it's only really strong at endgame.. They should definitely change DS and either only make one survivor at the time have it avaible or if two people have it activated at the same time make the timer for one of them go out much faster. Maybe that way it will be much better to deal with if mor3 than 2 survivors have it in game.
Yeah but look at it this way, DS stuns him you get a little distance, he just sent you across the map for free. Unless someone runs him to you and pulls you out with him there (this happens way to much, again bad habits) or he happens across you, he really shouldn't be able to tunnel you effectively. As far as I know, his cages are actually pretty bad if you intend to tunnel, its better to just take the DS stun most of the time, you lose much more time and distance sending them across the map and letting them probably get insta saved, or at least saved very quickly. It just feels bad because you didn't get the stun and visual feed back and yadda yadda. Now if you don't care for tunneling, send them across the map (for being a dirty DS abuser) and move on.
Yeah maybe he was tunneling. Tbf were I in his position I would chase that survivor off the gen then probably go after you too, since I could cage you then immediately go after them. That's the only time you really want to use the cage, when you have something else to do right in front of you, or if you know they probably have DS up for one reason or another (like tossing themselves in front of you because they have it up, or getting saved right in front of you.).
Honestly if they changed DS to be more contained and manageable if your not tunneling, I really would not care if it worked with cages since I don't tunnel. But as it is now, I want as many hard counters to DS as we can get, and right now that's 1 killer with one mechanic, that has a cost.
Dead hard for distance window or pallet is countered by bamboozle and spirit fury. It's an x perk argument both both are perks so fair game.
Sprint burst is 3 seconds per 40 seconds and is limited to you not running between those 40 seconds. What more do you want to so about the perk that's 3 limits right there.
Bt is literally dont tunnel/camp. DS is slug regardless of unbreakable because you gain pressure and have the opportunity to make them waste it.
@notstarboard 125 ping is pretty high as far as I know, I'm usually around 30-60 iirc. If your latency is that high I don't think much would be reactable, but I don't think its fair to go off numbers that high either. I would add that I play on console usually, so there are times where frames can screw you hard, but usually I'm ok with Mr.Triangle, its usually more of a map issue. I do agree that the game should really have a lot more of their info visible. Its really not fun to just make assumptions with powers, add-ons, ect. because so much is just not explained or shown anywhere at all.
As much as I appreciate the compliment when I was doing that I was throwing the game (I mean, there wasn't a game left to throw at this point, but I was throwing the game).
But if they make his POTD easier to hit nerf his zoning, and idk give him some mobility? He'll still be top-tier.
I just want a short cooldown when you go out of M2 so he cant stop faking it over and over again forcing you into bad spots they maybe could buff some addons or his basekit in general to equal it out a bit
Ok are you intentionally being naive now?
Bamboozle works when a survivor is looping the same window over and over again. If the survivor runs towards a new window in a chase theres is no way to apply Bamboozle to it, which often forces the killer to go around which allows the survivor to reach a nearby pallet. Bamboozle does not counter Dead Hard for distance.
Spirit fury doesnt either. If the survivor dead hards for distance then they’re able to drop the pallet early enough to avoid the pallet stun which avoids spirit fury
Sprint burst is still one of the most powerful survivor perks. Sure it has a downside but the 40 second cooldown is not much, its easy to sprint burst around the map and still have it ready by the time the killer comes. Still a minor inconvenience for a perk that completely negates stealth killers entire power.
BT they yank survivors off hooks when you’ve only taken 5 steps away from the hook. They dont even give you the chance to get away from the hook. You try to slug not for the sake of tunneling but just to gain pressure, but nope borrowed time. Again survivors are using it offensively doing the unhook before you even have chance to get away.
Unbreakable/DS sure you can get them to use it but it still allows the rest to sit on gens if they’re in a swf and it still has no counter.....which is the entire complaint people are throwing at Pyramidhead, Spirit and Deathslinger -no counter. Which goes to show if theres little to no counterplay on the survivor side you get excuses but if its on the killer side lets call for nerf after nerf after nerf.
Play Pyramidhead against good players. They know how to juke. Watch Hexys tournament from yesterday. Good players can avoid his hits and make him misplay. Can they do it all game? No because Pyramidhead has some input in chases. But the fact is survivors arent meant to stay unhooked permanently, they’re meant to buy other survivors as much time as they can. Lasting an extra 20 seconds in a chase buys your team an extra 20 seconds on gens. All this time adds up and yes the gens do get done.
Thats why people dont like spirit/pyramidhead because those killers have a chance to get a hit in chases. People are spoiled by the old killers, Trapper, Wraith, Bubba etc these killers had pretty much no input in chases. They relied almost entirely on survivors to make mistakes in order to get the hit so yes a survivor could loop these killers for a full 5 gens. This is why people consider them underpowered.
Its a 4 vs 1 yet the 4 control the chases.
If they nerf him ,they are going to try and make him as weak as possible knowing their track record they aren't good at balancing he seems fine as he is right now but knowing them they're gonna send him to below legion in terms of stength
after the hotfix i actually did overheat multiple times in a single game, billys addons are also really bad
nurse is nowhere near to be fun, i have like 200 hours on the old nurse but now shes just not worth it and as i said, nobody plays her...I've had couple of games with her and always asked survivors how often do they see nurse, most replied once in 50 games and one dude said that im the first nurse he played against after 3 months
the same goes for billy, nobody wants to play him anymore which means that nerfs and addon changes affect him hard just as they do to nurse
devs managed to ruin the best and most fun killers in the game to go against
but yeah they did smth good once in a while such as doctor, freddy and bubba but that doesnt negate the nonsense they are doing all the time
Ngl I can somehow see them doing this.
You have bamboozle to zone a survivor which in most cases is a hit. If you ar eloping shack you wait to bamboozle. If survivors see a window is bamboozled they will leave unless another tile is close by the deadhead is meaningless.
Lunge as soon as they dead hard to force spiri fury. That's what I used to do when I ran that perk.
Sprint burst is powerful but how would you change if? It's the least of your problems and not really a problem to start with. Gen speeds and map my friend. Sprint helps at the start of the chase nothing else all you have to do is zone a survivor if you see a survivor on gens I say the best would be to move left and right and narrow their escapes if you get what I mean.
BT uses it to get quick farms them respect it then you get a free slug or try to ignore them if they body block. What's wrong with playing offensively? Its pressuring you as killer and not to mention a smart strategy.
UB/DS always slug you delete unbreakable early and it's still pressure. It has about as much counter to spirit,ph, ds. I mean killers have been getting buffed while survivors catch nerfs after nerds for a good year to 2 years. So I mean what can you truly say they want to *look at* one killer and it's a fit for what?
tournament not everyone is a tourny player so I'm gonna ignore this. Even then PH can still force lose lose situations. Another thing is survivors have no input versus a good PH , spirit , ds.
They control the chase they never made the killer misplay the killer missed theirselves. I never said of implied survivors are supposed to be healthy permanently. Yeah you can buy 20 seconds if you get lucky and give your team time but that isnt fun.
People dont like ph, ds ,spirit because your input means nothing. Old killers were designed better. Bubba is extremely strong in chase now. Trapper and wraith need buffs to be more chase oriented but they could still use their powers to beat survivors without them making mistakes. Anyways I'm dragging this on and dont want to type 4v1 or not survivors should have their input matter.
Also didnt you used to be a survivor biased person cool to see you defend killers but what changed during your ban?
As a killer main, I don't think ds needs a nerf. I think it needs a total rework.
The point is if the survivor is running to a window for example shack, they dont make it they go down as they vault or before. They Dead Hard and now they get to play shack. Its an opportunity and a tile they wouldnt have had. You bamboozle the window they play the pallet and use it to get to another pallet. Bamboozle does not counter it lol if its a fresh tile.
Likewise if the survivor dead hards far enough ahead of you they can drop the pallet early. What you’re saying only works if you’re right on the survivors back.
Bubba is trash on some maps i.e Ormond.
I get why people dont like those killers. Its not that input is meaningless, you can always juke them, it happens plenty of times to spirit/pyramid, its just that you arent guaranteed safety by a pallet. Drop a pallet on a spirit for example and she still has a chance to get you, you cant just run to another tile.
I understand that im not denying it, but this is why people dont like the low tier killers because for them their input is meaningless in a chase. Many pallets are safe, mindgames dont work as well on good survivors and they all have dead hard to rectify their mistake anyway, you just rely on the survivor to make mistakes. Its the same thing but roles reversed.
Bruh DS is trash
I am an survival main and if i dont loop the killer for at least 1 minute was a bad chase
in this time the ds dosent even do nothing
Have so many other perks like UB DH BT balance landing Spiny chill Prove thy self self care resilience, that can really help you so much more then DS
They said “reviewing” they could go nah he is fine and if they do change anything it’s the cooldowns they will possibly make the delay longer between M2 and M1 but lower the penalty of missing M2
@SquirrelKnight that isnt the problem. His ranged attack is fine. The fact that he can instantly cancel it and m1 is not.
There is no guarantee they are going to nerf him but i can see why people would think it when they look at nurse and billy who were nerfed when they said they'd change them.
Pyramid head is my favorite killer now as silent hill 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, I really hope they don't destroy him like they did with legion in how they are so awful to play.
Because PH needs tweaking from both angles. There is zero counter play to him faking M2. There should be a drawback to him faking it, even if it is only a temporary hesitation in the ability to M1 or a slight slowdown after faking it. At the same time, his M2 is very clunky and not intuitive. It needs to be altered. I see it used more as a fake than an actual attack.
Face it, he needs a few minor tweaks. That means they'll completely jump the shark and mess him up. :(
IMO they should just nerf cancelling his ability, i think if they did so i wouldn´t even mind buffing him a bit.
Because the good have to suffer for the bad,survivor's take every killer that someone really like then the play with them in the worst way so the dev's must nerf him plus the millions of complaints
@hillbillyclaudmain69 why isnt that fine? That's like saying survivors should be slowed or have a cooldown when doing generators.
Im not trying to be snarky, it just seems like if the killer is cancelling the power that should be it. Cancel it and go for the hit.
To bring up my example, wouldnt it be like saying if a survivor is working on a generator that they should have a delay where they have to slowly get off the gen before running?
Id be fine with that. I just want him to have counterplay in a chase.