Is there a reason indoor maps seem deisgned to guarantee the last survivor escapes?
Kill as effectively as you like, find the hatch as quickly as you like, your efforts mean nothing when the gates are guaranteed to spawn on opposite ends of the map, with line of sight blocking walls also guaranteed, and for some reason ALSO unique designs on exit gate tiles to ensure you can't see them unless you're rubbing your face against them.
At least outdoor maps have a decent chance to favour either side based on spawns, indoor maps are just 100% survivor favoured in the EGC.
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Only applies to Hawkens, and to an extent Lery's.
The Game is small enough that you can get from gate to gate with relative ease, and Midwich is the most killer sided map in regards to the exit gate spawns, given you stand in the middle of the courtyard and watch both with minimal effort.
Kinda forgot Midwich even existed, but yeah Lerys and Hawkins are disgusting. Even a 115 killer struggles there, and if you're 110, well then enjoy a big teabag from the devs.
This can only be an issue on Hawkins. (Honestly, I would not even call that an issue, lol)
The Game and Midwich have short distances between the Gates. Hawkins takes a little bit longer due to the fact that you will most likely not be able to walk in a straight line, but this is RNG, if the right doors are open, you will manage to do an almost straight line.
And Lerys, the Gates can even spawn right next to each other.
sometimes on Lery's doors can now spawn at the same side, which makes it kinda reliable. But yeah, indoor maps have the built-in second chance escape, except maybe for Midwich, since the doors are in a straight short line.
What’s the issue with the last survivor escaping? Does it hurt your ego or something?
3k is as good as a 4K in terms of winning, you miss out on what, 1.5k points?
To escape as last survivor with exit gates you either need Hawkins or good RNG on your side, otherwise it’s pretty much in the killers favour.
Considering how ######### indoor maps are for survivors most of the time, I don’t really mind if gates are less easily patrollable.
the thing about indoor maps most survivors don't understand is that a lot of the pallets are unsafe pallets, but there's usually a lot more of them. This means that you need to not loop the pallet and instead use it to just stun the killer and run to the next pallet. Survivors are just used to having 80% of the pallets in a map being ultra safe pallets that the killer has to kick.
That’s not really the problem with indoor maps, look at The Game - tons of safe pallets, but a high kill rate. The problem is that you have way worse visibility of the killer, less visibility of your teammates, gens are harder to find and it’s usually harder to hide or lose chase on indoor maps (Lery’s being the exception). Blood is more visible and scratch marks are easy to track, and footsteps are really easy to follow. Plus there typically aren’t many windows so once the pallets are gone, you’re at a massive disadvantage.
The Game is a survivor focused map with 2 god pallets and 2 nearly god pallets. Also has about 18 pallets total. It has a lack of windows, but it has the strongest window in this entire game that is also right next to a safe pallet.
Basing issues off of the behavior of bad players is why this game is so unbalanced in the first place.
I don’t know why you keep mentioning pallets. Like I said, the issues people have with indoor maps are completely unrelated to pallets.
Pallets are used by survivors to delay the game by wasting the killer's time, giving other survivors enough time to do gens. The core gameplay of DBD essentially revolves around pallets and pallet loops. The indoor maps primarily have unsafe pallets, but they have many more to make up for this. The Game map especially has a lot of pallets and a few pallets that are extremely strong. The Game map is a heavy survivor sided map, it is not a killer sided map. It is a survivor sided map because of the amount of pallets in it and the amount of god pallets in it.
Hawkins also has tons of pallets and crazy good windows / vaults, midwitch is also an extremely survivor biased map. I just don't understand where you're coming from when you say indoor maps are bad for survivors. These maps employ pallets and windows that survivors have to think about to utilize fully, they can't just brainlessly navigate across the map and into safe loops then throw down the pallet and go to the next safe tile, like most maps. These maps actually require more input than brainless holding W.
I play demogorgon and there's no way survivor is going to escape my grasp on such maps lmao
Just place 2 portals right in front of gates (in a thin doorway) and there is no single way survivor can get past them without me noticing.
It doesn't work well on Midwich or Gideon, but that is unbeatable on Lery and Hawkins
"Hawkins also has tons of pallets and crazy good windows / vaults, midwitch is also an extremely survivor biased map."
Ok, now I know that you are either trolling or have no idea what you are talking about.
Hawkins having tons of Pallets is meaningless, when the Pallets are like "Get the stun or die". On most Hawkins-Pallets (there are like two which can be called "safe") you either have to stun the Killer or will get a Hit.
And Midwich is not survivor-sided at all, except for 2 or 3 God Pallets, every other Pallet is way too unsafe. You cannot find any Generators because there are no signs, you dont even know if the room you are entering (still) has a Pallet. There are some strong Loops, but those are gone once the breakable Wall connected to those Loops is broken.
Not saying that Midwich is killer-sided in any way, it is awful for Killer as well. But calling it survivor-sided is wrong.
They need to fix gate positioning in general. Gates should spawn with a big enough distance that the Killer can’t check one then the other in 2 seconds, but should be close enough that it doesn’t take the Killer half a minute to travel between them.
Midwich have plenty of god loop/safe loop where the killer need to break a pallet/wall to continue the chase. Generator aren't that hard to find, they are mostly in the biggest room next to a mindgame-able loop. I'd say Midwich balanced to survivor sided.
Boiling map balance down to just “are pallets good?” is far too simplistic. If pallets were the only important factor in map balance, Haddonfield would be fine and balanced. But weirdly, most killer players can agree that Haddonfield is an extremely survivor sided map, probably one of the worst, despite not being filled with safe pallets. Why do you think that might be?
The Game is not a survivor sided map. If you often lose as killer on The Game then I’m sorry but you need to git gud because it’s favourable to most killers.
Midwich is full of god loop till the killer break a pallet or a wall and those loop lead to mindgame-able loop. It's a balanced map to survivor sided. If survivor play their loop well and use second chase perk a killer's gonna sweat to get a 3-4k.
Why is this always an argument?
This can also be turned the other way around.
Why don't the 3 survivor at the open or 99ed exit not walk out but do everything they can to rescue the last guy. Are 3 escapes not enough with each getting 5 k bp?
When the killer or the group work hard they want to achieve complete victory or (since behavior defines the previous as a 2k) complete domination aka 4k/ all escaped.
And pls, I don't personally care for either side. I don't play for the 4k but to farm bp by playing normal without sweating/camping or tunneling.
But this one-sided arguments that can be flipped on their head get old.
There is one god pallet that I know of - by the stairs. What other god pallets are there?
Its a horrible map for both sides and just plain boring. Long halls with pretty much nothing. For most killers its an easy win. The only time I've ever had any issues has been when survivors had OoO and I wasnt playing a stealth killer. Still can get 4ks easily with it though - it just drags.
if you care SO HARD about 4k, you can either use whispers or slug the 3rd guy making the game boring and long as hell
What's your issue with the killer getting their last kill? Does it hurt your ego to know they beat you? Do you hate that the survivor doesn't get their 5k BP? Did you know that it's a massive amount of emblem score to get a 4k?
You should maybe realise that the killer doesn't get rewarded for the last survivor escaping. They get rewarded for killing them. And it sucks that the last survivor gets to "win" and often BM the shite out of you for reasons known only to toxic people. The whole 1-person endgame scenario isn't even killer sided, it's just RNG. If the gates are far enough apart, the survivor survives. If they aren't, the killer kills. It's not a huge problem except in that it encourages killers to slug for the 4k and/or encourages toxic people to BM because they are safe.
Whispers and the last Survivor will never escape again on any map.
Unless they spend the entire match looking for and camping the hatch, in which case you've already won even if they do escape.
God loop/pallet / safe one: https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=188
https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=212
https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=280
https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=488
https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=544
https://youtu.be/WWwMwTlkpIQ?t=746
Not sure if the last one is a loop that was in the first few links but still, 5 wall/pallet the killer need to break not counting the 2-3 mindgame-able loop that lead to a strong window. Also Lithe and Balance Landing can be use in every chase unless you have horrible positioning/ you are injured.
I don't know why people are complaining about this map. Most pallet are mindgame-able; is it possible to make the killer lose a decent amount of time on those while an average/noob survivor will get hit easily. There are like 5 loops where the killer need to break a wall/pallet otherwise he lose line of sight and probably end chase too.
I get that during a match you don't have time to think about all those nice loops and the most optimal path and you can easily enter the killer's terror radius when he's chasing someone but that's what make this map one of the best for me; survivor can get stressed because of everything I just mention but there are still some pretty strong area.
Only the 1st and 4th Timestamp are God Pallets and those are the only ones on Midwich. And while they might be a little bit too safe, its fine since the rest of the Pallets are too unsafe.
I would not count breakable Walls into this, because you can break them before being in a Chase, meaning that this Window which is near the breakable Wall will not be safe when a Survivor goes there.
And the Tower is not safe at all, its more like a Deathtrap.
If that is the only way to get a 4k, I will just do that.
My point is that you can waste a lot of the killer's time because you can easily loop all pallets a couple of times and I know tower is a trap but you still force the killer to destroy the pallet (I've seen 2 pallet there from time to time) and making him waste time. The thing with breakable wall is that you won't go out of your way just to break them. You usually break them if you know a survivor is newby otherwise you try to put pressure into an other area.
What you have to do is pick a door where you think the survivor will be, go there, go away, but head back long before getting to other door and hope the survivor started opening the door, thinking he/she would have enough time to open the door before the killer returns.
Gen placement on midwitch combined with the placement of the stairs up and down, along with the long hallways to encourage W play makes it a very unfriendly killer map. As a killer, you often have to run to one side of the map then run to the next side of the map to get to a gen or to catch up to a survivor. There's also a double pallet spawn in the library next to a window. It's a very strong survivor focused map.
The algorithm that determines map strength is heavily weighted towards pallet play and accessibility to windows to those pallets. You actually have no idea what you're talking about and if you're dying on The Game is a survivor, you need to learn to play. Considering you don't understand the strength of pallet tiles, I suggest you start learning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C_I-QvPTRsIt takes about 20-25 seconds to catch up to a survivor in a vacuum after being stunned by a pallet and kicking it. It takes 80 seconds to do a generator. Not utilizing any loops at all, you can use 4 pallets per generator done, this is also assuming only 1 of your 3 other team mates is doing a gen. Maps with more pallets means that you can throw more to waste more of the killer's time. When a pallet is unsafe, you don't loop it, you enter the tile from a favorable position, which may mean the killer gains on you, then you throw the pallet down in their face and run to the next tile. On smaller maps with tons of pallets, like The Game, you can do this for 5 gens.
Like I said, balancing this game around bad players is the major issue this game has, and people like you help exacerbate these problems.
Lucky u becuz i cant see survs on the door staying in the middle of the map and even so I gotta go up stairs cuz doors arent really open
Petty insults aside (I play more killer than survivor, FYI), you didn’t answer my question. If pallets are the sole determining factor for map balance, why is Haddonfield widely considered a survivor favoured map?
No, see, it's pallets TIMES windows + map size divided by number of floors, all divided by the angle between the exit gates squared
Hm! Well I can’t argue with Randy’s maths. 🤔
With the new hatch offerings, which i imagine will be pretty much every game, i will now always slug the 3rd haha.
A killer does not need 4k every match come back when you got 1K or 0K.