An in depth post about the lack of counterplay to spirit, deathslinger, and pyramid head.
Alot of people believe these these three killers have counterplay so I decided to make a thread going in depth the reasons why they lack counterplay. If I am wrong and you they do have counter play feel free to provide it.
Spirit:
Spirit lack of counterplay comes from the fact that her power has no tell in a chase leaving the survivors mostly in the dark. This lack of tell leaves survivors to guess. This guess is very much in the spirits favor. Add stridor into the mix and you have a broken build more on that later.
The reason the guess is in the spirits favor is because she can stand still observe your moves and act accordingly. If you walk/run away she phrases to your location and hits you, if you walk towards her she hits you. Against a good spirit there isnt much you are able to do and you are pretty much choosing which way you prefer to die. If you are injured it doesnt matter because like I said a good spirit is immediately phasing towards you and downing you.
Stridor spirit is a dirty build and has really.no counterplay. This is because it counters iron will which is usually the reply to "how do I counter spirit." When you are injured you are counting down the seconds until your death. There isnt really much to say on this because the majority of spirits run this.
Deathslinger:
There isnt much to cover mostly his zoning and quick shots.
I'm gonna start with his quick shots. The quick shot shoots in less than a second it shoots very quickly you can not react to that. Because you can not react to his shot you have to guess when hes gonna shoot and dodge accordingly. This is the problem let's say you are dodging preemptively you are losing speed and distance, then he can get up close and m1. You either guess right and he misses. Or you dont guess right and he walks up and m1s you due to your constant dodging.
His zoning is insanely strong and oppressive in chases. He can ads in and out. So let's say you are running from a deathslinger and he aims then you dodge. You start losing speed and distance then be does this a couple more times and now he had caught up and m1'd. His zoning strength comes from the fear of being shot and the fact you have to guess.
Pyramid Head:
Pyramid Head is short and sweet his zoning is far to powerful for how easy it is to do. Let's say you are running towards a vault and a PH is behind you, you vault he hits you with his range if you fake he hits you with his m1. The problem is there is zero delay after cancelling his punishment of the damn to m1. I have footage of this if you want proof. That's really it for PH
Final:
One more thing before I go the usual answer for all of these is to rush gens but then gen rush is complained about kinda confused here but that's all for now. Until next time.
Comments
Proof about what?
Staying near a pallet/in one spot is bad against a Spirit?
Trying to lead her into an area with multiple options like the main structure in Disturbed Ward helps limit her power's viability?
That these are my personal experiences?
Yeah, there's a highlight reel I've been saving for this very occasion to drop when someone is a little salty /s
;3
How did you get the cage on your pfp
Cuz a mod jailed me sadly lmao
Nah that you do "Pretty good against spirit" Do you have any vid or do you stream, or are you just writing that so you try make her balanced?
If you dont, it didn't happen and you're just lying.
He brought up his preference as did I.
I'm also consistently a rank 1/2 survivor and I have zero issues with any of the killers. Sure some are more boring than others but none are OP in the least bit.
What does jailing mean ?
Breaking a rule = you get jailed
if you're jailed you can't post discussions
Hmm I wont ask what rule you broke then I will say i dont really think the mods here are...reliable to say the least.
I don't really mind any of the killers. I agree there are certainly some that are much more stronger than others but for example people say legion is the worst. I love legion and how fast he is at getting around the map to pressure people. I think he has become one of my best killers. I just chop it up to all a learning experience, like when I see spirit I learned there is a good chance we will all die! LMAO jk jk
Have a great weekend! =)
Lol I like legions who chase you. I like the chase interaction.
Not having video on hand make someone a liar? Even though you told @Rill that you had no interest in watching cherry-picked videos earlier today?
Stating my own personal experiences and what works for me is somehow a commentary on balance?
Guess the mods are doing a good job these days, at least :3
You know why he got jailed oof.
Difference is, im not going to watch a bad edited / boring video which will repeat the same thing we all know.
And why would I trust a random guy on internet?
When you have a proof that you play both sides maybe we can talk.
And yeah, they're doing a great job! hopefully one day you get banned :D
I find legion to be fun and yeah nothing scarier to me then seeing the people getting Deep Wounded and thinking OH GOD CAN HE SEE ME AND AM I NEXT?! lol I like most the killers. =)
tell me how I counter sprint burst, iron will, unbreakable, iron will, object of obsession, borrowed time, and swfs. So you're saying survivors are supposed to counter everything a killer does, but a killer can't counter everything survivors do?
Whataboutism also that isnt the point of the post if you arent adding anything meaningful to the conversation dont bother speaking.
It's not whataboutism, not at all. It's about being fair to both sides. If I can't counter everything a survivor can do, why do survivors need to counter everything I can do? It's actually quite to the point, and it answers the OP's question as well. There's broken things survivors can do just as much as there are broken things killers can do. Welcome to DBD.
You forgot Deathslinger's completely bullshit terror radius. If he has M&A he's a better stealth killer than Ghostface. I don't really mind his ease of use if I could actually hear him coming like I can every other non-stealth killer.
I also cannot seem to blind Pyramind Head. I went into KYF with a buddy and neither one of us could find the spot to blind him. This was yesterday morning.
Reaction times are a thing of the past. Because of how crap the servers are, the hitboxes, VPNers(this is exploiting and the dev needs to punish people for using it to create lag and unfair games), and the fact the game is STILL CODED FOR P2P NOT SERVERS lol. This is why hitboxes are so completely jacked up outside of the fact that they got literally the cheapest servers on the market.
Everyone's argument against balancing them is "play swf" or "gen rush". Gen rushing is cancer, and every killer complains about it. Also, as a Survivor Main, SWF to me is cheating. It completely destroys any "immersion" for me when people want to talk on comms(then the mfs can't even have mic discipline... no i'm good on anymore frustration lol).
But that's exactly whataboutism. You complain about x then say what about y. Stop. Also yes I said there are broken things but sprint burst, iron will, bt, except object which is only op in swfs, but the rest are far from op. None of the killers I mentioned are op either.
Sprint burst had a 3 second use time if you are complaining about a perk that's been nerfed 4 times maugh be 5 dud to the exhaustion nerf since 2016 that's not good. Also to add on you can even hit people through sprint burst if they are too cocky.
Iron will stops moaning you still have footsteps and scratches.
BT dont tunnel it's not hard to ignore the recently unhooked survivor.
Yes both sides have broken things but we need to fix that and focus on them once again dont comment on my post whataboutism I'm going to ignore you.
The only thing that I hate about any of these killers is Death Slinger because he just CANT make mistakes. You can play perfectly just to get shot and downed within 10 seconds and it BUGS me
Yeah his terror radius is scuffed but I'm focusing on his chase. Reaction time definitely hard when you got laggy killers who teleport and do things behind the server. Coding for p2p on cheap servers is a big problem for me. The servers arent even subpar i get 60 ping instead of my usual 10-15 on other games even though I'm close to a server. But then the coding makes vs hits worse because hits are killer sided.
PH blinding is a you problem, I've been getting fl saves since day 1.
The last thing is mind boggling the counter is gen rush with a swf but then people moan about how those are unfair like make up your mind.
So no counter to sprint burst
No counter to Iron will
It's hard to not hit the one with BT when the one with BT bodyblocks you.
Again, it's not whataboutism. Killer powers aren't made to be countered. I don't see you complaining about Pig's power, or Plague's power. Those two powers are certainly not able to be countered, one relies on RNG and the other makes the killer stronger by giving them a ranged down.
No, you're complaining about killers that annoy you, you're being intellectually dishonest. This just shows that you're not interested in game balance.
For me it's when I 360 around him vault a window then he shoots me even though he missed a swing, but then gets rewarded a hit.
So this thread is about OP denying every answer that isn't "hold W for win" or get killers nerfed. Good stuff.
How would you give sprint burst a "counter" when it's on a time limit not a big one a short one you are simply providing a strawman argument. Iron will if you really are bothered run stridor that counters it but if the survivor has iron will use other audio keys/visual keys to locate them.
It's not about killers who annoy me its killers that have oppressive chase powers. You clearly ignored my post because I gave solid reasons to why they have no power and why I and many survivors dont like them.
On the topic of pig and plague they arent problematic as the 3 I mentioned pig does need a rework to make it less rng and to discourage tunneling survivors with traps. But like I said this isnt that problematic as spirit.
Plague you can deny corrupt purge by not cleansing but you do leave yourself injured which is fair because plagues can go an entire game without any power use other than the given.
If you arent gonna read my post dont bother commenting.
I wont dismiss actual counter.
I can get FL saves on every other killer except PH. I have ZERO problems with any other killer. Even standing still I cannot find the spot to blind them. Its not a ME problem if more than just me is having the issue. This would make sense with lag, but if i can't be blinded as PH in KYF, there's a problem there. Like how bugs come and go. Not every game is going to have the same bugs(like every game i wont get stuck in the terrain and earn crows from being unable to move, but it happens frequently enough that its wildly frustrating and that game isn't worth playing IMO).
Problem is, even with a hardline of 600mbps I still get lag because a lot of people playing killer have trash internet or they're using a VPN. This affects everything. Even skillchecks, because when the game server lags it can cause FPS drops.
Also, don't say anything bad about the mods, even if you have proof and its 100000% true. if you send a report on them, BHVR doesn't care. You will get completely banned off the forums if you're unlucky lol It's a dictatorship here.
Slinger / PH = Dodge
Spirit = Walk
Counter play sorted.
You play on xbox I can help you with pyramid head. The blind spot is just like any other killer the way they are facing and then like 45 degree angles from both sides.
I cant say you are right about killers with bad wifi making YOUR frames drop if you could show video evidence then yeah but if you are lagging it's you cheap servers or not it's still a server.
Can you explain a bit like if I have like proof about the mods being bad and send it to bhvr they dont care?
What is an actual counter? You want them to be same as every other killer and just run around in circle for 5 gens?
Genrush = pressure gens
Swf = end chases quickly/pressure gens
Counterplay sorted.
Nurse isnt run around the circle for 5 gens but good survivors dont complain about her why do you think that is?
I love juking the ff hit lmao.
...........
Stridor is a DIRECT counter to Iron Will. Always has been. IW is virtually pointless to run against any killer using that perk.
NOED counters Sprint Burst and Hope.
Also, Myers can be completely neutered from ever using his powers again if the Survivors can kite him around and force him to tier up on everyone, eventually running out of his ability to use his powers and he becomes a BS M1 killer.
Plague makes it virtually impossible to earn anything in Benevolence. You can't heal against her unless she uses her M1 or super puke.
sprint burst is a badly designed perk, there's a reason why it's been nerfed a few times.
Those killers don't have oppressive chase powers. Just like you claim there are counters to Iron will or BT, there are counters to deathslinger, spirit, and pyramid head. You can't just mindlessly run to the nearest pallet or window when these killers are chasing you, you need to use your surroundings better. This is why I brought up broken perks for survivors, you can run the broken survivor perks to help you, especially sprint burst. If pyramid head shoves his knife into the ground, you don't throw the pallet down and you start dodging. Drop a pallet early on spirit and then walk away, no way she will know, and if she is faking phasing she still has to catch up with you with 110%. Don't beeline to pallets and windows against deathslinger. If deathslinger zones you, your job is to waste as much of his time as you can.
Being a PvP 4v1 game, you have to realize that for there to be true balance, the killer, on average, should be about 4 times stronger than an individual survivor. You shouldn't be able to 1v1 a killer as a survivor, only when the team works together should they be equal to the killer. As I pointed out, the game is skewed in the survivors' favor, since SWF is so strong. The killer is closer to being only half as strong as an individual survivor. I also find it funny that you didn't even touch on countering SWF or object of obsession.
Countering isn't your argument, it's balance. You're complaining about the balance of the killers, because a lot of the killers can't really be countered. There are things the survivors can do that the killers can't counter, which means that there are things needed in the killer toolkit that either cannot be countered or are hard to counter, and these are their powers, which in some way allow them to down survivors quicker than they otherwise would. The point of countering a killer power designed to counter what you can do is illogical. You're asking to counter a counter.
The Spirit changes
These nerfs significantly increased skill floor of Spirit and most people quit playing her, so only good Spirits remained.
Yes because the things you mentioned were broken as ######### and needed changes. Collision between spirits and survivors made using the power stupid easy. Wakasashi says speed being half a second gave you a stupid far lung and could correct mistakes for phasing wrong.
Not having a vault animation just made room for more standing still. The point is the nerfs were warranted and spirit is still braindead easy. My friend gave me some stats of 40 games as spirit.
He started a week ago rank 1 killer too if that means anything and out of 40 games he got 3 escapes one which he let go and 13 dcs. Spirit is still a braindead killer I even tried to play as her myself and I can say just have a good headset it's not hard.
One more thing old prayer bears do you think that shouldn't have been nerfed? Cause you make it sound like the nerf killed her. It really didnt if it did nobody would complain.
Let's say you are right and I won't have to waste my time on you since it's impossible to argue with a person who thinks these is no counterplay just because he doesn't want to accept the fact that counterplay for spirit is more unreliable than for other killers.
By the way, video you included is a bit outdated, considering it was released before patch 3.4.0
Ey xbox partners lol
You on xbox too xbox gang.
Yup spend like all day on it lol
I have been too since this quarantine